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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Non's on the start list for Montreal, and I assume she'd be on for Edmonton too... There's lots of short course opportunity this fall, with the Super League 4 week Championship series after Edmonton, and then the fall world Tri swing of Hamburg, Bermuda and Abu Dhabi.

The Montreal start list right now is a mixed bag, plenty of Olympians on the list, and plenty skipping it (given that it is basically two weeks after the MTR in Tokyo). The interesting part is that it likely signals who has ambitions for the overall series, since Edmonton is a week later, and with the bubble that they are putting in place around the events, I am not sure how easy it is for people who skip Montreal to race Edmonton. Neither start list is full yet for Montreal, since the cap is upped to 60 for the Eliminator, the men's list is down to 53 (there have been a few swaps, but most notably Johnny Brownlee is no longer on the start list), and the Women's has grown to 59.

I'd love to see a verified source for the idea in the Tokyo MTR that the nations that auto qualified their relays could use alternates in the relay, but the others couldn't. Several auto qualified nations are not traveling their alternates, which would be odd if that possibility existed, purely as a contingency. I guess we'll see in the next few weeks how it shakes down, but in absence of anything else, I'm sticking to the assumption that only rule around using alternates that I could find would be in place, which is that they can be subbed into one of the quota spots up until 48hrs prior to their individual race (i.e. the men's or women's race).

In terms of medal threats for the Olympics, you want to look at who has historically done well in the warm races (Yokohama, Miyzaki, Huatulco, Abu Dhabi, Bermuda, Mooloolaba, Gold Coast and the test event, or further to Rio or Cozumel). Which would point to the Norwegians, Mislawchuk, Yee, Schoeman, Mola and Luis amongst others. On the women's side Duffy, the Americans (all 3 have had WTS Podiums at some of those races), the Brits (again all 3 have podiums in the heat), Jo Brown, Spirig, Kingma, Gentle (you might even throw in Jeffcoat as a long shot, because she has strong performances in the heat, however they have often come either where there's crazy surf in the swim, or over the sprint distance, so I wouldn't put her in favorite status purely because I am not sure she's there yet over the Olympic Distance) amongst others.


There's a solid start list for Long Beach this weekend, it's a continental cup race, but most of Ian O'Brien coached squad, and the Multisport Brain squad are racing before hopping the plane to Tokyo. Not sure if the race is streaming anywhere, but if it is, it might be a fun one to watch.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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Jackets wrote:
Non Stanford has told me she'll stay on at Oly distance and not move up to 70.3, quite surprised, be interesting to see what the rest of her year will look like.

Not surprised at all. She has the commonwealth games next year racing for Wales.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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There's also the fact that Olympic qualification for Paris is likely to start in the back half of next season. Normally there would be a "gap year" after the olympics where some of the experience folks tested the 70.3 waters before making the call about whether to give the OG another goal, or to move up to mid/long-course, but with Tokyo being bumped back a year, that's less of an option. That meant we saw some of the typical post olympic retirements early (either due to burnout, or when people saw the writing on the wall around not being selected for Tokyo), but also more early declarations of intent for moving up distances (I.e. Johnny Brownlee, or the Norwegians declaration to give Kona a go, but to continue racing World Tri circuit). This also potentially impactss with the usual baby boom amongst athletes, since usually you would see a number of athletes that were trying to start families aim for a pregnancy in the first year of the quadrennial to give plenty of time to build back after giving birth for the next olympic cycle. With only 3 years before Paris, it makes things tighter for those still considering it, and may lead to some either delaying until after Paris, or to moving ahead with less certainty round Paris.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Also new wrinkle in the Tokyo saga... https://www.bloomberg.com/...ent-the-water-stinks while the water quality tests have been coming back clean on the venue (likely due to the screens inserted in the bay to filter out the bacteria from the venue portion), the water is back to smelling like a toilet again (as it did in 2019 when the e. coli counts were well above the allowable limits. It looks like there were talks about moving to Yokohama, but a number of athletes got sick there (including Joanna Brown who got a kidney infection from the water) after the WTCS race, despite the water quality passing the necessary standards... There might be legitimate reasons to need to call up the reserves for the MTR after all... Either that or possibly the first Olympic Duathlon... (they do hint at there being some contingency days where the venue is available, so that they could delay events a day or two if need be should the water quality dip below acceptable levels for a day or two)
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
Also new wrinkle in the Tokyo saga... https://www.bloomberg.com/...ent-the-water-stinks while the water quality tests have been coming back clean on the venue (likely due to the screens inserted in the bay to filter out the bacteria from the venue portion), the water is back to smelling like a toilet again (as it did in 2019 when the e. coli counts were well above the allowable limits. It looks like there were talks about moving to Yokohama, but a number of athletes got sick there (including Joanna Brown who got a kidney infection from the water) after the WTCS race, despite the water quality passing the necessary standards... There might be legitimate reasons to need to call up the reserves for the MTR after all... Either that or possibly the first Olympic Duathlon... (they do hint at there being some contingency days where the venue is available, so that they could delay events a day or two if need be should the water quality dip below acceptable levels for a day or two)


how can the japanese comittee and IOC be so unproffesional? they know they have this problem and now what? same shit happened in Rio. Is not there any clean water in Japan? swallowing that water in the swim can ruin your race, besides the relay...

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
Last edited by: juanillo: Jul 16, 21 14:34
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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With all the covid issues in the world we almost forgot about the contaminated water issue in Odoiba bay. Could it be any worse than it was in 2019. Many athletes needed antibiotics after that swim.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Glad I wasn’t the only one who thought they were confused on the MTR reserves stuff. C’mon Maccer, get your head in the game!

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
As the days go by I am thinking Tyler has a good shot (small guy, won the test event, good in heat) It is the new version of Schoeman with a killer run... the only issue with him might be the swim...see if the french smash it in that boiling water cause it can cause serious damage...the top swimmers should be
Luis, Bergere, Connix, Schoeman, Schomburg, JB, Royle, Van Riel...and then maybe Gomez, Pearson and Hauser....One of the aussies will wait for Birtwistle but Luis, Schomburg, JB and Van Riel are top bikers....we´ll see if there is some gap and the battle Norwegians+NZ+Spaniards aginst the front pack if it exists...

I agree on Tyler having a shot. Very curious to see how that swim pans out.

Obviously Schoeman is a fantastic all-around athlete, but I think the swim is his defining feature. Would Tyler’s be his run?

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [MI_Mumps] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder if what's going on in S.Africa right now has been a huge distraction to Schoeman, he was my dark horse for a medal if the front pack managed to keep a gap, but it must be difficult for him at the moment.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [iron_mike] [ In reply to ]
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Canada made the decision around 2016 to stop running a National Junior Series where the best Canadians used to race each other instead going to a regional events where athletes would just race athletes from their own Provinces which just waters down the competition.
Whereas in Europe they have gone the opposite approach and don't run as many National events choosing to increase the quality of racing by having European Junior Cups.
I think we are already starting to see the negative result on Canadian development pool.
I expect the numbers will continue to decrease as the jump from Provincial Racing to Elite is much harder now than it was 6 years ago. Time will tell but I feel very poor direction was chosen and will hurt development pool over the next 2 or 3 quads.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [coach] [ In reply to ]
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coach wrote:
Canada made the decision around 2016 to stop running a National Junior Series where the best Canadians used to race each other instead going to a regional events where athletes would just race athletes from their own Provinces which just waters down the competition.
Whereas in Europe they have gone the opposite approach and don't run as many National events choosing to increase the quality of racing by having European Junior Cups.
I think we are already starting to see the negative result on Canadian development pool.
I expect the numbers will continue to decrease as the jump from Provincial Racing to Elite is much harder now than it was 6 years ago. Time will tell but I feel very poor direction was chosen and will hurt development pool over the next 2 or 3 quads.

In 2019 Canada re-introduced the National development series for youth/jr/U23 athletes who were not yet racing the PATCO series (it's PATCO again, after a few years as CAMTRI). The events still tend to skew more regionally, but because there were points available that impact seeding for nationals and selection for World championships teams (Jr especially), you saw more people traveling for the races. Tri Can isn't organizing the races, but generally assigning the status to Cup series races run by various provinces. They use a very World Tri type model, with higher point events (i.e. Nationals), and lower points events (some of the more regional races) to yield final rankings. We'll see in another year or two whether this quells some of the slips in the development pool. There have been some promising results, Isla Britton did score 2nd at the European Jr Cup race in Tizsy yesterday (a very gutsy race, where she did the bulk of the work in the first chase pack to close down the break coming into T2), there was another Canadian in the finals for that race as well. We'll see too if Superleague Ottawa returns next year, there was a pretty stacked Jr/Youth field there in 2019 (it was a part of the National Dev series too). This year is still spotty in terms of racing in the various provinces, with only a few re-introducing schedules including Youth/Jr/U23, but apparently a bunch from different provinces are heading to Montreal for the WTCS weekend, to race in the QC Grand Prix series race super sprint heats and finals event. Hopefully we can keep the momentum and have more of these national type events to make sure we've got a group coming in behind the current stars we have, and it's not an 12 year lull like post whitfield (to be fair, Paula Findlay looked to take on that mantel in London, prior to injuries de-railing her race there).

The long beach race was pretty interesting, Tyler Mislawchuk won again (again with Sharpe practicing for his domestique role in Tokyo), Matt McElroy managed 3rd. Renee Tomlin won the ladies race.

Similarly, the Tiszy race ran as a European Cup race over the weekend and had a solid field of athletes including a mix of Conti Cup/World Cup athletes, and a few folks who got the OG selection shaft (the event is usually a World Cup, but with the proximity of the event to the OG, I suspect they were told either it's a conti cup or you need to move the dates if you want it as a WC, and they chose to keep their traditional dates). It followed their traditional Super Sprint heats, and Sprint finals format, with Csongor Lehmann grabbing victory for the home country fans, flanked by two Italians (Azzano & Sarzilla), Livvie Mathias won the ladies race ahead of Audrey Merle and Italy's Constanza Arpinelli (despite serving a 10s penalty), field include Kate Waugh, Natalie Vancoerverden, Dale & Lovseth from Norway, Beatrice Mallozzi and others. A few of them were using it as a tune up for WTCS Montreal after the olympics.

More excitingly, the OG men's race is less than a week away now...
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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I'm a couple of years behind with the pandemic so not really up to date on who is coming up over last couple of years.
Triathlon Canada leaves youth development to the Provinces which is good for the larger provinces which can run competitive youth races but terrible for the smaller provinces who have difficulty challenging developing athletes. The USA Youth Elite Series for ahletes 13 - 15 in my view is superior as a feeder to junior than the Canadian system.
I remember a decade ago when you brought together junior girls to race from all over the country and had Sweetland racing Findlay, Brault, Ridenour, Coates twins, Hooper, Hogan, Edwards etc. The depth of field was better than ever and the bar was raised so high to beat each other the athletes had an easier transition to elite. Regional races is better than nothing but never going to get the race depth we did as a National series. We will continue to find talent but not the depth we previously did with the old system.
Strange thing is a decade ago the top American juniors used to come to the Canadian junior races to get improved competition before they moved to the current system they use which is a 4 race National Series bringing the best together that Canada used to use.
Just my view, time will tell but I'm a big believer an athlete needs to learn to win at a level and then move up. Stepping up from winning a regional junior series race to winning elite races is a huge step. Can be done but it's a bigger jump than it used to be after winning National Series races.
Olympics will be fun to watch. Tyler is going to take it in a longshot upset. I very much doubt a domestique strategy will be needed in a race likely to be decided in a big pack run but you never know.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [coach] [ In reply to ]
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I don't disagree with you. I suspect at the Canada Games next year, you'll quickly see the have and have not provinces from a development perspective... The National development series is kind of a half-assed effort of re-creating a national series, while still outsourcing the work to the provinces to organize the events... This year at least we may have some more national style events for the Youht/Jr/U23 crowd, only because there are only races happening in a couple of provinces, and people are desparate to race, and willing to travel to the races. Next year, we'll see. There was some potential to the development series, but I would probably make it more national and less regional (i.e drop the number of events, and reduce the opportunities for people to skip races, so rather than 8 races where 3 are mandatory, and you can add two more, drop it to 6 and your best 5 score (or 5 and your best 4 score), make nationals mandatory with premium points, and then the rest people can either pick and choose or race more and drop a score. That might help to concentrate the fields a bit better and create more best on best situations. Provincially Quebec, Ontario and Alberta from what I can tell have solid provincial development series, where their best athletes are racing each other every few weeks, but I am not sure about the others. Building those around a smaller core national series could create a solid pipeline.

On the OG sub front, it looks like GB is not going to be subbing in alternates, Sophie Coldwell did IG posts of her training confirming that she wasn't going to be racing this week, but that she is in full prep for Montreal.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
coach wrote:
Canada made the decision around 2016 to stop running a National Junior Series where the best Canadians used to race each other instead going to a regional events where athletes would just race athletes from their own Provinces which just waters down the competition.
Whereas in Europe they have gone the opposite approach and don't run as many National events choosing to increase the quality of racing by having European Junior Cups.
I think we are already starting to see the negative result on Canadian development pool.
I expect the numbers will continue to decrease as the jump from Provincial Racing to Elite is much harder now than it was 6 years ago. Time will tell but I feel very poor direction was chosen and will hurt development pool over the next 2 or 3 quads.


In 2019 Canada re-introduced the National development series for youth/jr/U23 athletes who were not yet racing the PATCO series (it's PATCO again, after a few years as CAMTRI). The events still tend to skew more regionally, but because there were points available that impact seeding for nationals and selection for World championships teams (Jr especially), you saw more people traveling for the races. Tri Can isn't organizing the races, but generally assigning the status to Cup series races run by various provinces. They use a very World Tri type model, with higher point events (i.e. Nationals), and lower points events (some of the more regional races) to yield final rankings. We'll see in another year or two whether this quells some of the slips in the development pool. There have been some promising results, Isla Britton did score 2nd at the European Jr Cup race in Tizsy yesterday (a very gutsy race, where she did the bulk of the work in the first chase pack to close down the break coming into T2), there was another Canadian in the finals for that race as well. We'll see too if Superleague Ottawa returns next year, there was a pretty stacked Jr/Youth field there in 2019 (it was a part of the National Dev series too). This year is still spotty in terms of racing in the various provinces, with only a few re-introducing schedules including Youth/Jr/U23, but apparently a bunch from different provinces are heading to Montreal for the WTCS weekend, to race in the QC Grand Prix series race super sprint heats and finals event. Hopefully we can keep the momentum and have more of these national type events to make sure we've got a group coming in behind the current stars we have, and it's not an 12 year lull like post whitfield (to be fair, Paula Findlay looked to take on that mantel in London, prior to injuries de-railing her race there).

The long beach race was pretty interesting, Tyler Mislawchuk won again (again with Sharpe practicing for his domestique role in Tokyo), Matt McElroy managed 3rd. Renee Tomlin won the ladies race.

Similarly, the Tiszy race ran as a European Cup race over the weekend and had a solid field of athletes including a mix of Conti Cup/World Cup athletes, and a few folks who got the OG selection shaft (the event is usually a World Cup, but with the proximity of the event to the OG, I suspect they were told either it's a conti cup or you need to move the dates if you want it as a WC, and they chose to keep their traditional dates). It followed their traditional Super Sprint heats, and Sprint finals format, with Csongor Lehmann grabbing victory for the home country fans, flanked by two Italians (Azzano & Sarzilla), Livvie Mathias won the ladies race ahead of Audrey Merle and Italy's Constanza Arpinelli (despite serving a 10s penalty), field include Kate Waugh, Natalie Vancoerverden, Dale & Lovseth from Norway, Beatrice Mallozzi and others. A few of them were using it as a tune up for WTCS Montreal after the olympics.

More excitingly, the OG men's race is less than a week away now...

Was at the Long Beach event this past weekend.

On the men's side, it was interesting to see the dynamics of Tyler sticking to Sharpe's wheel pretty much the entire ride in the front of the pack trying to stay out of trouble. The pack into T2 was huge, some 35-40 athletes altogether. It would really suck if a crash takes Tyler out just before the OG, luckily the course was pretty straightforward and not very technical.

On the women's side, Canada has quite a few junior athletes broke into the top 20 in a very competitive elite race, so their pipeline on the women's side seems to be quite strong.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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There is some potential there, and some folks looming there, there's Lepage, Paquet, Briand and Hoel on the men's side that are showing some potential as well, but the idea of the Dev series is to create that funnel from Youth/Jr to the Continental cup series, and then to the world cup series as U23 athletes. We've been really good at pumping people up to the continental cup series, but we've had less success converting them to World Cup/WTS athletes. Huatulco was a positive sign with Solid results from Kretz, Jamnicky & Legault, and from Mislawchuk, Briand and Paquet (Sharpe raced well for the role he was playing).

A few of us were holding our breaths for the Long Beach race, hoping that nobody Tokyo bound would be felled by a crash in that race before leaving. There were similar thoughts in a few folks who raced in Tiszy on the weekend too (although they were mainly alternates, rather than starters).
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
There is some potential there, and some folks looming there, there's Lepage, Paquet, Briand and Hoel on the men's side that are showing some potential as well, but the idea of the Dev series is to create that funnel from Youth/Jr to the Continental cup series, and then to the world cup series as U23 athletes. We've been really good at pumping people up to the continental cup series, but we've had less success converting them to World Cup/WTS athletes. Huatulco was a positive sign with Solid results from Kretz, Jamnicky & Legault, and from Mislawchuk, Briand and Paquet (Sharpe raced well for the role he was playing).

A few of us were holding our breaths for the Long Beach race, hoping that nobody Tokyo bound would be felled by a crash in that race before leaving. There were similar thoughts in a few folks who raced in Tiszy on the weekend too (although they were mainly alternates, rather than starters).

yep, i've argued before here that i think canada has been pretty cack-handed about managing the wealth of talent that they've had over the years. in some sense it paid to put all the eggs in the whitfield basket for a while - he really made the sport in canada, from 2000 - but it came at a cost. i think the real test will be to see whether those promising young athletes are happy, healthy, and fast in ~5 years' time. i hope so!

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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i was shocked canada was willing to risk a crash with tyler. he's a legit gold medal contender so what was the point of having him and matt race a C level race on a flat course that everyone knew would have a pack ride full of sketchy inexperienced riders? having matt at the front with tyler in pole position is not good practice for what likely will happen tokyo, which likely will be a group that has swum off the front and is in a small break with a pack chasing that has multiple alphas (some with domestiques) trying to catch the leaders. that ride is a lot more frantic and chaotic than the one that happened in LB where it looked mostly like a pace line with matt at the front. even if it were good practice, why do it a week out and not do it in one of the other WCs this spring?
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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We'll know in a week, whether or not it was a good idea for Canada to race their A Team at a C level hit out a week out, but I was awaiting updates with held breath, hoping that nobody crashed out of the games there... Especially this year, where for those note on the WC/WTCS circuit, there have been more sporadic race opportunities if they weren't going overseas, so the fields were likely extra sketchy due to lack of racing in their legs...

Thus far I haven't heard of anyone not getting into Tokyo, which is good, just crazy long waits on entry for test results... Have seen a bunch of obligatory posts about the recyclable cardboard beds, which might be Eco-friendly but might also be anti-sex to prevent COVID spread...
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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At LB, as the pack turning into the transition area - which is the only tech element of the course - to finish the first lap, one of the south American athletes misjudged the corner and turned in too wide, hit the medium strip and went down. Luckily he didn't hit the deck too hard and was able to get up quickly, and since he was so wide and no one was following his line, it didn't cause any chain reaction. That's when I thought "whoa, this could've taken out a gold medal contender". Most of the Canadian high performance team was there and I saw them pacing back and forth, I am sure they were also holding their collective breath during the bike leg.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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dalava wrote:
At LB, as the pack turning into the transition area - which is the only tech element of the course - to finish the first lap, one of the south American athletes misjudged the corner and turned in too wide, hit the medium strip and went down. Luckily he didn't hit the deck too hard and was able to get up quickly, and since he was so wide and no one was following his line, it didn't cause any chain reaction. That's when I thought "whoa, this could've taken out a gold medal contender". Most of the Canadian high performance team was there and I saw them pacing back and forth, I am sure they were also holding their collective breath during the bike leg.

They might have been having flashbacks to London, when Whitfield got crashed out by one of the South American athletes (who was mortified that he had taken Whitfield out)...
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Richard Murray has today announced he is withdrawing from the individual Olympic race. He states he will still race the relay, "within myself"
Kind of a shame RSA didn't think ahead and not name him for health reasons and give Sullwald the start who would no doubt race out of his skin for the team, and be able to start and finish the individual.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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That makes zero sense, racing the relay "within himself" is a waste of the other three in the team's time. If I was one of them I'd be fuming. Surely if he withdrew completely they could pick a reserve?
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, disappointing for Richard Murray.

I was looking at the final start list today for the first time, and it occurred to me that Portugal decided (interestingly) to put their eggs all in the experience basket by selecting both Joaos (Perreira and Silva) over last year's vice-world-champion and up-and-coming triathlon star Vasco Vilaca. Don't know how I feel about that one!!
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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r0bh wrote:
That makes zero sense, racing the relay "within himself" is a waste of the other three in the team's time. If I was one of them I'd be fuming. Surely if he withdrew completely they could pick a reserve?

Think if they hadn't already named and sent a reserve it would be too late to get the pre travel tests done and be there in time for briefing.
He thought about the timing of the decision.
Last edited by: chrisb12: Jul 22, 21 0:08
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Diabolo] [ In reply to ]
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Diabolo wrote:
Yeah, disappointing for Richard Murray.

I was looking at the final start list today for the first time, and it occurred to me that Portugal decided (interestingly) to put their eggs all in the experience basket by selecting both Joaos (Perreira and Silva) over last year's vice-world-champion and up-and-coming triathlon star Vasco Vilaca. Don't know how I feel about that one!!

Maybe they chose to go with the athletes who earnt the ranking spots, may be is in their policy. Vilaca hasn't shown to be the dominating force so far in 2021 that everyone was predicting in 2020 either, if he had a top 10 WTS this season, or any time during the olympic qualifying events, maybe they could have chosen differently but he was far from that. Both the other guys have numerous top 10 each in the qualification period. Remember 2020 was not qualifying, it was just a fun and games year and earning a few $$ for those able to get to race.
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