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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Dumples] [ In reply to ]
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I think they can name travelling reserves to the IOC, but not sure. Just seeing a few countries mentioning them. Maybe normal rules are different this time around due to possible covid cases in teams.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, you can have reserves for the MTR, but it takes agreement from at least 3 drs (from different orgs) to confirm that an individual athlete is not capable of taking part in the MTR. So they can't be used as a tactical change - only to ensure a team can race if a mishap befalls a selected athlete.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
N. Van Coevorden
T Spivey
L Tersch
Sam Ward
Matt Mc Elroy
Luke William
Adrien Brifford

Not all of those are because of MTR though. Spivey would be at risk going against KZ for last non-auto spot for individual race too.
NZ politics not necessarily related to race requirements
With Aus having 6 spots, they're the least subject to 'all about MTR' and it is a bit of a consequence of having depth. It is rough on NVC and LW though.
I haven't really followed USA men and the swiss situation

There are usually only a handful of athletes truly in the race for individual anyway. MTR gives a different type of race to watch and gives a different group of athletes a chance to succeed.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Dumples] [ In reply to ]
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GBR is taking Coldwell and Dickinson as travelling reserves. Aus has got travelling reserves.

Squads need to be named but sickness or injury after that you can nominate a reserve.

I am assuming they’ are travelling due to restrictions.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know who will be traveling as a reserve. But USAT is bringing reserves and is set up to help them race well, if the situation occurs.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe they need more than one reserve per 3 considering the big bad Covid could wipe out so many from competing.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Jackets] [ In reply to ]
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I believe it's only one alternate per country, per gender. No matter what.


Sounds like they have to do a test 96, 72, and 48 hours before leaving. And one upon arrival. After that I believe they assume you're safe if you're in the village.

You'd have to be pretty silly to get a covid positive at that point. I assume most countries will have their athletes vaccinated as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks!
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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oprfcc wrote:
I believe it's only one alternate per country, per gender. No matter what.


Sounds like they have to do a test 96, 72, and 48 hours before leaving. And one upon arrival. After that I believe they assume you're safe if you're in the village.

You'd have to be pretty silly to get a covid positive at that point. I assume most countries will have their athletes vaccinated as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks!

It's been happening in football (soccer) all year, even just happened at the European championships and theirs a lot more money involved in that than Triathlon!
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [oprfcc] [ In reply to ]
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oprfcc wrote:
I believe it's only one alternate per country, per gender. No matter what.


Sounds like they have to do a test 96, 72, and 48 hours before leaving. And one upon arrival. After that I believe they assume you're safe if you're in the village.

You'd have to be pretty silly to get a covid positive at that point. I assume most countries will have their athletes vaccinated as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks!


I am not sure that's right, GB have already announced Dickenson and Benson as travelling reserves. In Aus there is talk of 2 male and 2 female reserves expecting to be going. They haven't been announced so not sure how true.
I was also under the impression they would be being tested very regularly in the village.
I don't see why you would have to be silly to catch a virus once in the village. If someone picked it up on the way to the airport they may not have enough antibodies to be showing positive on arrival and could spread around the village. Staff in the village may bring it in, shuttle bus drivers, so many ways it could happen.I am sure everyone will be doing everything in their power to try to protect themselves but it could still happen, so I would say unfortunate not silly.
Last edited by: chrisb12: Jul 3, 21 17:30
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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chrisb12 wrote:
oprfcc wrote:
I believe it's only one alternate per country, per gender. No matter what.


Sounds like they have to do a test 96, 72, and 48 hours before leaving. And one upon arrival. After that I believe they assume you're safe if you're in the village.

You'd have to be pretty silly to get a covid positive at that point. I assume most countries will have their athletes vaccinated as well. I guess we'll see in a few weeks!


I am not sure that's right, GB have already announced Dickenson and Benson as travelling reserves. In Aus there is talk of 2 male and 2 female reserves expecting to be going. They haven't been announced so not sure how true.
I was also under the impression they would be being tested very regularly in the village.
I don't see why you would have to be silly to catch a virus once in the village. If someone picked it up on the way to the airport they may not have enough antibodies to be showing positive on arrival and could spread around the village. Staff in the village may bring it in, shuttle bus drivers, so many ways it could happen.I am sure everyone will be doing everything in their power to try to protect themselves but it could still happen, so I would say unfortunate not silly.

I believe Dickinson, Benson and Coldwell will be travelling to the holding campy but only Dickinson and Coldwell will be travelling to village.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ In reply to ]
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USATF 10k Champs / Peachtree Road Race
1. Sam Chelanga 28:44
2. Fred Huxham 28:45
3. Clayton Young 28:48
4. Colin Bennie 28:54
5. Elkanah Kibet 29:00
6. Matt McClintock 29:03
7. Matthew McElroy 29:04
8. Galen Rupp 29:06
9. Jacob Riley 29:08
10. Augustus Maiyo 29:08

Shawn
TORRE Consulting Services, LLC
http://www.TORREcs.com

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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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Good for Matt! No idea about most of those names; but finishing ahead of Rupp can’t be a bad thing.

Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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The reserves aren't for the MTR specifically, the reserves are for the quota spots, so they could race the individual as injury/illness replacement. With all of the COVID rules in place, I would think that every NF would exercise the option to bring a reserve, assuming they had an eligible one (the reserves still need to meet the individual eligibility criteria, i.e. top 140 ranked on Olympic ranking), just in case someone arrives and has a positive COVID test, or gets a Visa refusal... For the invidual, I think the cut off is today for submission of your roster including back-ups, and then substitutions can be made off that list up to 48hrs out from the individual race. I wasn't aware that there was an additional proviso for replacing someone due to injury for the MTR (with the 3Drs confirming the injury), but if that's there, that gives people a bit more breathing room (The big reason countries were pushing for extra slots was to be able to have an additional athlete in case someone crashed out or needed replacing for the relay).

And yeah, I saw Tri Can's hit out against World Tri (although the statement was from the Athlete's Committee, which is independent) about interfering. Based on the published criteria as they laid them out, Mislawchuk and Brown could race the solo (Tri Mag Canada in their article missed that Brown podiumed at Bermuda which was one of the specified prefered races for a top 7 result during the qualification period), and the others might be relay only. The one who has the most right to be pissed out of all of this is Kretz, who was told to work for the relay, and then Tri Can basically pulled the plug on qualifying a relay in Lisbon, and then she went to earn a second ladies spot, effectively bringing the relay back onto the table, and now could be told she could only race the relay... I suspect that it wouldn't sit very well, and she would be pretty justified in that stance. I suspect that the second male for Canada will get to race both, given that they have been working on the domestique strategy for Mislawchuk and have had some success with Sharpe in that role, and Lepage was playing a similar role as well in Lisbon, but didn't have the legs... They still haven't announced their team yet, but I suspect it will be Mislawchuk, Sharpe, Brown and Kretz, with Lepage and Jamnicky as reserves (there is an outside chance that Lepage gets selected for the second male slot if politics rears its head, since he has been training with Mislawchuk (in the national team group, prior to the suspension of the coach), whereas Sharpe switched (and has admitted to lodging the SafeSport complaint), however despite that, he has been committed to that domestique strategy, and has been the more successful of the two at executing it).
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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And it looks like WTCS Montreal and Edmonton will be going ahead as elite races, employing a bubble approach. Montreal will be the first WTCS glimpse at the eliminator format.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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Natalie VC is not very happy I think it's fair to say "I'm heartbroken. Triathlon is also broken"

https://www.instagram.com/...utm_medium=copy_link
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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r0bh wrote:
Natalie VC is not very happy I think it's fair to say "I'm heartbroken. Triathlon is also broken"

https://www.instagram.com/...utm_medium=copy_link

Fair enough too
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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just awful. She is completely right....the fu***g MTR and the missmanagament of the Aus Fed ends up with another victim, same as Sam Ward, same as Mc Elroy, same as Addrien Brifford, same as......
Triathlon is an individual sport. MTR cannot be over it. Sprint distance cannot be over olympic distance as the marathon cannot be changed to a half marathon for the more entertainment, what is next, supersprint after sprint?. Triathlon is not a toy and it is not something you can adapt like plastiline...it is what it is for the good and the bad....if it is for enternaintment then set a beer station at T2, obbligate the guys to drink three pints and see the one that comes in straight line in the run....just ridiculous.
I dont like the way ITU is managing the sport now...they wanna sell it? good...sell it but put red lines.... seems this sport can be sold like goods . idont see decathlon or modern pentathlon changing in that way, or T&F or whatever sport...

Spaniard. Sorry for my english for the sensitive ones :P
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
just awful. She is completely right....the fu***g MTR and the missmanagament of the Aus Fed ends up with another victim, same as Sam Ward, same as Mc Elroy, same as Addrien Brifford, same as......
Triathlon is an individual sport. MTR cannot be over it. Sprint distance cannot be over olympic distance as the marathon cannot be changed to a half marathon for the more entertainment, what is next, supersprint after sprint?. Triathlon is not a toy and it is not something you can adapt like plastiline...it is what it is for the good and the bad....if it is for enternaintment then set a beer station at T2, obbligate the guys to drink three pints and see the one that comes in straight line in the run....just ridiculous.
I dont like the way ITU is managing the sport now...they wanna sell it? good...sell it but put red lines.... seems this sport can be sold like goods . idont see decathlon or modern pentathlon changing in that way, or T&F or whatever sport...

AGREED. ITU are definitely selling out, there are supersprint eliminator races now in world tri series which to me is bullshit. That is similar distances to relays, we have relays to show the speed, keep the OD for endurance. I can deal with Sprint but super sprint is just for fun, not world series. If it continues this way it will push a lot of athletes out to long course at younger ages than previously.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [juanillo] [ In reply to ]
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juanillo wrote:
just awful. She is completely right....the fu***g MTR and the missmanagament of the Aus Fed ends up with another victim, same as Sam Ward, same as Mc Elroy, same as Addrien Brifford, same as......
Triathlon is an individual sport. MTR cannot be over it. Sprint distance cannot be over olympic distance as the marathon cannot be changed to a half marathon for the more entertainment, what is next, supersprint after sprint?. Triathlon is not a toy and it is not something you can adapt like plastiline...it is what it is for the good and the bad....if it is for enternaintment then set a beer station at T2, obbligate the guys to drink three pints and see the one that comes in straight line in the run....just ridiculous.
I dont like the way ITU is managing the sport now...they wanna sell it? good...sell it but put red lines.... seems this sport can be sold like goods . idont see decathlon or modern pentathlon changing in that way, or T&F or whatever sport...

Modern Pentathlon had uproar when they merged the run and shoot. They adapted and accepted.

I do however, think triathlon should be OD and get rid of relay. I think the problem is the selection criteria by NGBs. If ITU were to control that in a much more meaningful manner it would be better.

e.g. top 30 ranked athletes are auto selected and can’t be abused by NGBs. Limited to 3 per country.

31 - 45 are used to select athletes where countries haven’t auto qualified 3 athletes.

Next 6 - 8 are selected from developing countries.

Last few are used to allocate e.g. hosting nation or high ranked previous world champs etc who were injured in qualification period.

Something similar to that would mean all top athletes get picked and there is enough flexibility to make sure the correct decisions are made.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [SheridanTris] [ In reply to ]
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using the rules you propose shows how complex this issue is because the UK and USA both have 5 in the top 30 so there are 4 more open slots. who gets them? only the UK and USA have 3 in the top 30 so how do the next 15 get allocated? does switzlerland get 2 of them because only spirig is in the top 30?

i think the issue at the qualification level is that an entire new sport was added -- MTR -- but zero additional athletes were added (as per the IOC). that's not a big deal in track and swimming where there already are too many athletes to begin with and literally dozens of athletes already qualified by the top countries who can race MTR but not triathlon. then, of course, many countries have bungled their own selection processes.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [mag900] [ In reply to ]
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I do like relays but not to the point where top athletes get shafted. If the IOC have a 2 yr qualification period then top ranked athletes should qualify. Allowing federations to swap out the qualified athletes is the problem I think. If federations have someone they want to choose over another then make them race to qualify their points. Should be so simple. In athletics they now have the international ranking system where they are also racing for points to qualify. The relay should be the race between the countries with qualified athletes. The whole point system, as it was, with the relays qualifying athletes would have been fine if the simulation list had to be followed rather than each country selecting individuals. Actually when you look at the season ahead there are 2 supersprint events happening which I guess is the beginning of making it easier for great supersprinters who are crap at Olympic distance to qualify points in the future. Between the sprints and the supersprints we might not be seeing too many OD races moving forward. Not real happy about that.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [chrisb12] [ In reply to ]
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I think there are two separate debates here. One is the proliferation of different events and disciplines that World Triathlon (no longer the ITU) is starting to include, and the other are the recent shaftings of prominent and deserving triathletes in Olympic selections. While the relay has upped the impetus for said shaftings, the shaftings are not new and have gone on for a number of Olympiads, regardless of the relay, where countries shafted similarly meritorious athletes in favor of Swim/Bike domestiques for a medal contender. All that has changed is that in some cases, they have gone for super sprint specialists instead...

I personally am in favor of World Tri introducing different disciplines, such as the eliminator to their circuit, if it helps get more eyes on the sport, it's a great thing. What can't happen is fully doing away with the standard distance races, which they have no plans to do. I love the relay, it's super exciting to watch, and to race. I've gone to Hamburg to watch MTR Worlds, I've officiated elite MTRs, from experience I've seen crowds get more into the relay than they do in the individual race (despite the MTR usually being earlier in the day in Hamburg, so the crowds have less time to get pissed up than they would for the individual races...). I suspect that the direction that World Tri is likely moving is to try, like they did with the MTR, to get enough traction with some of the new formats to expand their portfolio of medal events in the Olympics, and to potentially add something like the super sprint or eliminator (a bit like the XC Ski Sprints were added a while back to the portfolio of medal events). The limitation right now, and the potential cause of the increased shafting, is that the IOC is granting the events, with now allowances for extra bodies in the Olympic village. Which means that you have the equivalent of mile specialists running the 10km in some cases. As long as there's room for politics in team selection, it's going to happen, it's not a problem unique to triathlon, especially when most NF funding is tied to podium potential at the olympics.

Eventually I suspect there may be separate series and for Elite SS/Sprint and Standard distance. They have already split apart the Worlds (was supposed to start next year in MTL, but will run in Bermuda this year), so I suspect that by 2025 there might be separate series (if I were betting, I would say rather than 7-8WTCS races, you see two 5-6 event series (or some sort of hybrid, where you have like 4 standard, 4 sprint and 4 SS, and the sprints could count towards the ranking on either series)). While the inclusion of super sprints on the WTCS are new, the heats and finals super sprint/sprint combos have happened on the Continental Cup and World Cup circuit for a number of years, eliminator is just an evolution of this (with a particular lens towards spectators). This is also the direction that a lot of sports are going to try to increase viewerships (see MTB adding short course and long course races, XC Skiing adding the sprints and skiathlon events, and track adding in mixed relays as well, amongst others), and it seems to be working.

World Tri could play a role in preventing the shaftings, through their criteria, but it will be a battle between them and the federations who are always going to want some discretion. The best thing that could happen in the shorter term is to see if they can get the IOC to approve 22 extra athletes. With that they could shift up qualifying, and split them. an individual qualifying schema similar to the past, without the relay playing in there. And then give the top 10 relays (or like now, 7 on rankings, 3 from a last chance qualifier) plus host an additional relay selection for each sex that doesn't race the individual, and might have looser eligibility criteria (i.e. raced world mixed relay series races, rather than top 140 individual rankings). You won't fully eliminate the shenanigans, you'll still have domestique shaftings, and maybe a couple of relay picks, but it will be more above board (since you could pick your best 1/2/3 depending on what you qualified for the individual race, and only 1 of them would need to race the relay, and then you could pick a relay specialist). Longer term, if they add a super sprint event as an individual along with a standard, then people could pick from both to make up their relays.

While I feel for all of the folks that got screwed out of selection, I am excited for the Tokyo races. I'm also excited for Montreal and the Eliminator/Relay there (I'll be in MTL for that race, so I'll post my comparison with Superleague afterwards, since I have also experienced their eliminator in person (although with COVID restrictions, it might not be a fair fight in terms of beer garden availability)).
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [Trauma] [ In reply to ]
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Trauma wrote:
the shaftings are not new and have gone on for a number of Olympiads,

We've honed it to a fine art in NZ, trying to be clever has never worked but we keep at it

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The best thing that could happen in the shorter term is to see if they can get the IOC to approve 22 extra athletes.

The IOC wants the village size to be down as the OG are getting so expensive that they'll run out of cities that can host. They're trying a staggered approach to sports and athletes housed in the village for 2022 Youth Olympics in order to massively reduce the accommodation requirement. Sports will be relieved if they don't lose quota, rather than hoping for more.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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cyclenutnz wrote:
Trauma wrote:
the shaftings are not new and have gone on for a number of Olympiads,

We've honed it to a fine art in NZ, trying to be clever has never worked but we keep at it

Quote:
The best thing that could happen in the shorter term is to see if they can get the IOC to approve 22 extra athletes.

The IOC wants the village size to be down as the OG are getting so expensive that they'll run out of cities that can host. They're trying a staggered approach to sports and athletes housed in the village for 2022 Youth Olympics in order to massively reduce the accommodation requirement. Sports will be relieved if they don't lose quota, rather than hoping for more.

This is exactly why, if the federations choose not to start some relayists in the individual, it is likely to backfire for next time around. They all need to start and if really want them out discreetly pull out. The biggest worry is the water quality and gut health. If that was less an issue everyone be more likely to start.
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Re: Official ITU discussion thread... [r0bh] [ In reply to ]
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r0bh wrote:
Natalie VC is not very happy I think it's fair to say "I'm heartbroken. Triathlon is also broken"


https://www.instagram.com/...utm_medium=copy_link



Adrien Briffod, in similar manner, also broke a week-long silence since the infamous decision to leave him out:

https://www.facebook.com/adribriffod/posts/1790837487785092
English version:
It's been just over a week since I learned that I was not selected for the Tokyo Olympic Games. This past week I have really questioned the purpose of all my dedication and hard work.
Being quite emotional, confused, disappointed and angry I have been away from social media. I needed to digest this decision and take a step back.
I don't know what I could have done additionally this year to show the federation that I should have been selected. Every time I started a race I finished as the strongest Swiss athlete. I had a level in the races that I had never reached in previous years. But what is the point of performing and competing against the best if your performances are overlooked?
It gives me the impression that the selection was already made at the beginning of the year, no matter what results I would do this season, they would never be good enough for the federation.
The criteria are very vague, so the federation is currently unable to give me clear and valid reasons for the selection. If performance was the answer, I would not be writing this text today.
That being said, even more than the disappointment of not being able to participate in the Tokyo Olympic Games, there is a disappointment and disillusionment towards the elite sport environment. I am angry at the system in which the federations have so much power. The only thing I can do at the moment is to fight for things to change in the future. A certain lack of ethics, organisation, communication and honesty has impacted this selection and others around the globe. Now things need to change so that this does not happen to the next generation of triathletes.
I will continue to race and to fight to be the best but I think it is above all important to fight for my values, to have the values of the sport respected and to respect myself.
I would like to thank my sponsors, my coach, my family, my girlfriend and all the people who support me every day especially in this difficult phase.
I will go forward, Paris is not so far, so be ready to see me on the front of the stage and in an Olympic shape in the years to come
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