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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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dsmallwood wrote:
3xBAMF wrote:
Constantine wrote:
If there is any changes I guess we would see them at TDF.
Any rumors or pictures?


http://triathlon.competitor.com/...-speed-concept_79866

It saves 90 seconds off of 112 miles when you average a speed of 20 mph. So in other words, my IM time ould go from 6:45:00 to 6:43:30. Definitely worth $11,000!


LMAO
math aside, this is still a great point. may i subscribe to your newsletter?

Absolutely! sign up at http://www.fitnesstipsfromafatkid.com
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [3xBAMF] [ In reply to ]
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Just a strange non-intuitive consequence of the physics.

a given reduction in CdA (drag coefficient times area)

saves the faster rider more drag force
and a higher percentage of time saved
BUT, the slower rider, due to being on course longer, ends up savings slightly more total time over a fixed distance.

So, a given wheel might make a faster rider 0.5% faster and you 0.4% faster but since you are out there longer, you save more seconds.

Make sense?

Really though it is all close enough to being the same you can think of it as the same:

50g drag @ 30mph = 0.5seconds per kilometer saved (at any speed)

for some insight into the light vs aero question, that comes up in the Weds tour de france TT, I go through some hypothetical scenarios here:

http://blog.aeroweenie.com/...age-17-light-or.html

The slower you are, the more weight matters relative to aerodynamics, but still, aero tends to always win, as long as you are comfy climbing and descending on the TT bike (which should be the primary issue you think about really)



3xBAMF wrote:
jackmott wrote:
it makes the same difference at your speed.

a little more in terms of time actually.

Im intrigued....How would it help more @ my speed? I'll average 17.5-18 mph.

Reason I ask - I'm torn between TT bike and road bike for IMLT in a few months. Light vs aero.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Last edited by: jackmott: Jul 15, 13 19:26
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
Just a strange non-intuitive consequence of the physics.

a given reduction in CdA (drag coefficient times area)

saves the faster rider more drag force
and a higher percentage of time saved
BUT, the slower rider, due to being on course longer, ends up savings slightly more total time over a fixed distance.

So, a given wheel might make a faster rider 0.5% faster and you 0.4% faster but since you are out there longer, you save more seconds.

Make sense?

Really though it is all close enough to being the same you can think of it as the same:

50g drag @ 30mph = 0.5seconds per kilometer saved (at any speed)

for some insight into the light vs aero question, that comes up in the Weds tour de france TT, I go through some hypothetical scenarios here:

http://blog.aeroweenie.com/...age-17-light-or.html

The slower you are, the more weight matters relative to aerodynamics, but still, aero tends to always win, as long as you are comfy climbing and descending on the TT bike (which should be the primary issue you think about really)



3xBAMF wrote:
jackmott wrote:
it makes the same difference at your speed.

a little more in terms of time actually.


Im intrigued....How would it help more @ my speed? I'll average 17.5-18 mph.

Reason I ask - I'm torn between TT bike and road bike for IMLT in a few months. Light vs aero.

Good insight. I appreciate that. Thank you!
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [3xBAMF] [ In reply to ]
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Even tremblant isn't hilly enough to tip the balance, unless you have a very heavy tri bike and a very aero road bike.

As far as aero helping. You save more watts the faster you go, but at lower speeds you are on the course for a longer time so you save more time than a faster rider will

Styrrell
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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styrrell wrote:
Even tremblant isn't hilly enough to tip the balance, unless you have a very heavy tri bike and a very aero road bike.

As far as aero helping. You save more watts the faster you go, but at lower speeds you are on the course for a longer time so you save more time than a faster rider will

I ride the SC 9.9 and a Madone SSL. I *think* the SC is about 5 lbs heavier than my Madone which also has compact gearing vs standard on the SC. My rationale is that the increased effort battling 4 long (3-4 mile) climbs schleping my TT bike up vs dancing the way up on the madone would trump the 1 mph decrease in speed on flats / downhills.

I am thinking purely level of effort not time / speed. Running and I don't get a long very well so if I don't save some juice, I'm screwed.
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [3xBAMF] [ In reply to ]
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still, 5lbs seems like a lot but aero probably still trumps it.

gearing is a bigger issue, but a 28t cassette may suffice.



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:

still, 5lbs seems like a lot but aero probably still trumps it.

gearing is a bigger issue, but a 28t cassette may suffice.

Im running a 27t on the back....also considering moving to a compact up front. Money could be saved swapping them between bikes...

Any other triathlon, I'd be all over my Speed Concept.
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [3xBAMF] [ In reply to ]
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Do you know if you've ridden up hills with similar gradients to Mt Tremblant? Its steep in places and poor choice of gearing will make a bigger difference than the difference in wt/aero between the two bikes. In general having a low gear you never use costs 0 time, not having a low enough gear can cost lots of time on the bike and even more on the run.

Styrrell
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [wsrobert] [ In reply to ]
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This will be a good updrade for 2014... this or the new P3.. thinking.. thinking..
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [paulbanday] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [hansonator69] [ In reply to ]
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Yup. There's a few old look bikes that pretty much nailed it way back when. Speaking of look, they are due for a new TT bike

bikemessengersrepresent
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [hansonator69] [ In reply to ]
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hansonator69 wrote:




wow
well done. that is mind boggling, especially when compared to Looks current offerings. Looks seems to have gotten here first . . . then left.
do you know the year?

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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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whats really mind boggling to me is that yes these frames look very similar... but i am willing to bet that in a wind tunnel the SC will absolutely demolish the Look. So is it really the frame shape that is making the SC so fast? or the minute details of tube shaping, integration, etc, etc
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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The model above is the 1996 model Look KG296 CLM Carbon. There were a few versions of the KG296: PKV (track model), CLM (road version of PKV), CLM Titanium and CLM Carbon which had down tube and seat tube fairings.

Interesting how things come full circle and that isn't necessarily a bad thing, as the new Trek looks fantastic.


Last edited by: hansonator69: Jul 16, 13 4:35
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [Tillquist] [ In reply to ]
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What are the chances Trek will offer the 2nd gen ''upgrades'' for those of us with the first bike? I'd grab that shark fin and the new bar set up in a minute......
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [guppie58] [ In reply to ]
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guppie58 wrote:
I have such a hard time warming up the Trek since their mountain bikes were garbage for so long ( I was a MTB racer before turning to Tri's)

Their tri/TT bikes sucked for a long time too. I worked at a few Trek shops and could never get around to using the employee discount because they were so far behind and were so focused on the road market and their TT/Tri bikes seemed like an afterthought. (There's a reason Armstrong was riding re-badged Litespeed bikes back then.) But the introduction of the original SC showed that they've gotten really serious about the Tri/TT bikes and they're doing them right. While I don't love their ubiquity, just because it's nice to have something unique, I think they're making really good tri bikes. I certainly won't go out and buy a new SC, but that's just a financial matter. If I had the $ and were looking to buy a new bike, this would definitely be in the running for me.
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [ridenfish39] [ In reply to ]
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ridenfish39 wrote:
What are the chances Trek will offer the 2nd gen ''upgrades'' for those of us with the first bike? I'd grab that shark fin and the new bar set up in a minute......

What are the chances the fin will actually fit properly (with the correct mounting points and everything) on the older SC?
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [hansonator69] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. The CLM 296 still has some retro-funk going on but the PVK 296 looks shockingly modern to me. The front end looks so much like a Felt Bayonet (in truth it's the other way around) that it's shocking to me. The slight bend in the downtube really reminds me of the 2011 DA prototype that had the bend before they removed it in the production model.

And to think, I thought Cervelo invented aero. /pink
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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Lol, Trek's own whitepaper shows the P5-6 as being faster.

At least they're honest
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [justkeepedaling] [ In reply to ]
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only on one of the two charts.

not clear what the difference is

justkeepedaling wrote:
Lol, Trek's own whitepaper shows the P5-6 as being faster.

At least they're honest



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
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jackmott wrote:
only on one of the two charts.

not clear what the difference is

justkeepedaling wrote:
Lol, Trek's own whitepaper shows the P5-6 as being faster.

At least they're honest

On both charts if you're fast
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [Mrcooper] [ In reply to ]
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afraid not...too many things we wanted/needed to do on the aero-integration-fit fronts to make backwards compatibility work out. are there things we did on this bike which may make it into aftermarket offerings? we'll see...

Carl Matson
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [jeffp] [ In reply to ]
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bingo

Carl Matson
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Re: 2014 Speed Concept? [justkeepedaling] [ In reply to ]
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justkeepedaling wrote:
On both charts if you're fast

Not if you are fast at Kona, or anyplace else with big crosswinds



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
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