Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD

Jul 23, 19 12:45

Post #1 of 374 (12980 views)

Greg K here - many of you might already know me as the tech editor here at Slowtwitch. We’ve noticed quite a few recent threads surrounding the topic of road tubeless tires. A fair number of pros are switching to tubeless, like Patrick Lange, Sebastian Kienle, and Rudy Von Berg. Given this, we decided to create a superthread just for road tubeless. Similar to long-running threads like the Canyon or Cervelo fit assistance threads, this is intended to be a hub of information about one topic, so it can be easily found - and so we avoid redundant discussions.

We want to be clear: This thread isn't designed to convince you that you should or should not ride tubeless. It's designed as a home base for tubeless information, to help you make that decision for yourself. We’ll talk standards, materials, sealant, wheel/tire fit, and anything else that’s relevant – and we want your input. I have quite a bit of experience with tubeless and will be the ring-leader of this circus. If I can’t answer your question myself, I’ll contact the experts – be it manufacturers, aero experts, or others (or they’ll chime in directly).

If you're not very up-to-speed on tubeless, take a look at this recent home-page article I wrote, which also links back to several more tubeless articles.

This thread can and should live a long life. We ask that you make comments that are civil, productive, and as polite as you'd be to someone face-to-face. And if you're not a polite person face-to-face, please pretend to be in here.

Ready? GO!

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 19 13:04

Post #2 of 374 (12948 views)

Thanks for making this, my wife went tubeless, almost not by her choice as our bike mechanic just set it up that way. I figured it would be better for her since she has trouble replacing tubes anyway and so far it's worked out fine for her.

I don't have tubeless ready wheels but will do so in my next purchase, whenever that may be. My only noob question is about replacing sealant, i was told generally every 2-3 months, will we ever get to a point where we won't have to worry about replacing sealant for a year or more? or is that out there and I am just unaware?

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [hadukla] [ In reply to ]

Jul 23, 19 13:14

Post #3 of 374 (12938 views)

hadukla wrote:

Thanks for making this, my wife went tubeless, almost not by her choice as our bike mechanic just set it up that way. I figured it would be better for her since she has trouble replacing tubes anyway and so far it's worked out fine for her.

I don't have tubeless ready wheels but will do so in my next purchase, whenever that may be. My only noob question is about replacing sealant, i was told generally every 2-3 months, will we ever get to a point where we won't have to worry about replacing sealant for a year or more? or is that out there and I am just unaware?

This depends on a few things, such as the type of sealant, the amount used, and how humid the weather is. Pretty much every tubeless sealant is latex-based (someone can chime in if they're aware of something else), and I usually top-off the amount every 6 months or so. If you use more sealant or live in a more humid area, you might be able to get away with once per year. You should also completely remove the tire to wipe it out about once a year, because you can get big chunks of dried sealant hanging around. Some companies have a longer-lasting or 'endurance' formula, such as Orange Seal, though I've heard through the grapevine that these don't tend to seal holes quite as well as the traditional formulas.

There are quite a few tube-type sealants that are usually glycol-based, and can last up to as long as 'the life of the tube'. I haven't found that these seal as well as latex-based tubeless sealants, even when used in tubes.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 2:35

Post #4 of 374 (12832 views)

out of interest given that kienle was riding solo would it been faster to try to pump up and /or put an inner tube in or keep going as he did ( he did lose time in corners besides losing a good bit of trye preseeure ) ? cant rember when he punctured but it was between 120-130 k ?

and have you changed your personal opinion on tubeless or is it still the same ?

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 2:54

Post #5 of 374 (12822 views)

Main question I have is whether there is reason to wait another year or 2 for tubeless to become more standardised or mature across different manufacturers? I haven't done a whole load of research on it as I have no pressing need for new wheels, but it seems there are still a few issues which are potentially a PITA or at least off-putting to a newcomer, such as the difference between tubeless and tubeless-ready, different bead and rim types, certain tires being incompatible with certain rims, etc.

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 5:26

Post #6 of 374 (12786 views)

Good thread, thanks!

So a serious question for a non pro self supported triathlete: does there exist a super low rolling resistance 700 x 23C high pressure capable racing tubeless tire set up that won't require more maintenance effort than a comparable tire plus tube set up? If no, is there a ballpark target date for when such a set up might be available on the market?

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 6:10

Post #7 of 374 (12764 views)

I don't think so. The fundamental trade with tubeless is more setup and maintenance in exchange for fewer flats.

There are long-life sealants that can make tubeless setups last a long time nearly maintenance-free, but even those don't really even the equation.

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 6:27

Post #8 of 374 (12753 views)

I'm not sure how to manage it in a thread but one way a group could be useful is flagging good/bad tire and wheel combinations. My understanding is that there are small differences in sizes that mean for some combinations it is extremely hard to get the tire on. I'm not sure exactly what the problem would be with a larger tire/smaller wheel combo but presumably there is one or the variance wouldn't exist. Harder to seal? More likely to blow off?

That may just be a list of combos with a rating/vote for ease of setup. With enough info you could presumably work out where each tire/wheel is on the smaller/larger scale and make an educated guess about how an unlisted combo might work.

Or that may already exist somewhere and someone replies with a link to it.

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 6:54

Post #9 of 374 (12735 views)

I have a set of Giant PSLR aero wheels. I've always ran them clincher. They're from around 2015 or so as things were moving to 11spd being the norm on 105 components and nicer.

The spec sheets all say they're TLR. Has anyone owned this wheelset and tried it as TL? The tires on it are due for change, and my spare GP4000's are also fairly worn. Those maybe have 500 miles or so left on them, mostly sidewall wear/cuts.

I'm interested in converting to the new GP5000's, but if these work well as TL I'd be down for trying it if people have done it without much pain.

I also have the other Giant wheelset that came with the bike, alloy aero PA2 wheels. Supposedly those are also TLR. Same question for those. I'd run those in a 28mm for mixed road and light gravel use.

Thanks!

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [pk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 6:59

Post #10 of 374 (12727 views)

pk wrote:

out of interest given that kienle was riding solo would it been faster to try to pump up and /or put an inner tube in or keep going as he did ( he did lose time in corners besides losing a good bit of trye preseeure ) ? cant rember when he punctured but it was between 120-130 k ?

and have you changed your personal opinion on tubeless or is it still the same ?

It's tough to say. If I was in his shoes, I probably would've just kept riding. Sometimes with road tubeless, the sealant can't keep the puncture closed over a certain PSI (personal experience puts this at roughly 50-80psi. If you're running 25-26mm tires (common size now for tri, especially with wide rims), this is usually enough to limp home.

As for my personal opinion, I can't recall but there's probably a thread out there that has summed it up. The key issue I've had over time with road tubeless is hit-and-miss tire/rim fit between brands. This is also a key concern of Dan, and it's one of the drivers behind this thread (i.e. get more intelligent tubeless discussion going, so we can find setups and standards that work, and encourage manufacturers to be aware of the discussion and desire for easy installation).

MTB has largely gotten over this hurdle, by way of better rim shapes, better bead materials, and better, more consistent tire sizing. My last MTB (don't currently have one) was tubeless. My road bike and tri bike currently are not, though I have some stuff on the way from Schwalbe to test. My other issue is that I have equipment coming and going fairly frequently, so it often isn't practical from a time standpoint to set up everything tubeless (nor do manufacturers always send their tubeless kit, or tubeless-ready tires). I'm kind of at the mercy of what they want to send.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:21

Post #11 of 374 (12715 views)

cartsman wrote:

Main question I have is whether there is reason to wait another year or 2 for tubeless to become more standardised or mature across different manufacturers? I haven't done a whole load of research on it as I have no pressing need for new wheels, but it seems there are still a few issues which are potentially a PITA or at least off-putting to a newcomer, such as the difference between tubeless and tubeless-ready, different bead and rim types, certain tires being incompatible with certain rims, etc.

This is a tough call (for most consumer products). How long to wait? You could've asked that same question two years ago, five years ago, or more. Personally, I'm a late-ish adopter to most things, and want the early adopters to go through the heartache for me. I still have an iPhone 6S because I like the headphone jack.

The good news is that you largely don't have to wait. There aren't a ton of new mid-high-end wheels still being sold that aren't tubeless-ready. If you aren't ready to go tubeless, you can still run inner tubes and standard clincher tires on those wheels... all you have to know is the slightly updated tire installation procedure.

From what I've heard, Schwalbe's latest tubeless stuff is the most forgiving in terms of installation ease. I haven't used them, but should have something in my hands fairly soon. To me, the bigger question to ask yourself before making the jump is whether you can find the right tire to suit your needs in terms of puncture resistance. For example, with most brands' tubed road tires, you can pick between ~3-4 levels of puncture resistance (usually affecting rolling resistance). Supersonic, GP4000, GP 4 Season, Gatorskin, for example. I don't see as many choices with tubeless. Sealant helps, but can't make up for casing thickness. At least for training, I don't want a thin race tire - tubed or tubeless.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:29

Post #12 of 374 (12707 views)

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

Good thread, thanks!

So a serious question for a non pro self supported triathlete: does there exist a super low rolling resistance 700 x 23C high pressure capable racing tubeless tire set up that won't require more maintenance effort than a comparable tire plus tube set up? If no, is there a ballpark target date for when such a set up might be available on the market?

"High pressure" - can you clarify what you mean by that?

As for maintenance, here's the short of it - and let's assume a time frame of about a year. If you never puncture during that time, tubeless will require more maintenance than tubes. You'll have to top off the sealant at least once during that time, and at the end of the year you should remove the tires to clean out any sealant build-up. You might have to replace the valve cores a couple times, because they can get clogged with sealant (typically takes a minute or two).

If you DO get punctures during that time, the waters get muddy. With tubes - you're changing tubes. With tubeless, you at least have a chance that they'll seal on their own (and sometimes you won't even notice it happened). The tubeless situation gets better if you're on larger and thicker tires, with lower pressure (i.e. the Hutchinson Sector 28). But - the puncture still might not seal, and then you're putting a tube in plus the other regular maintenance.

The other factor is whether you run sealant in your inner tubes. I did this when I was racing. You effectively add in a lot of the tubeless maintenance - i.e. topping off sealant levels, and the tubes end up getting glued shut after about a year - needing replacement.

It's not perfect. TLDR, you're probably doing at least a little more work with tubeless.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:31

Post #13 of 374 (12701 views)

Thanks. Sounds like if I was buying new wheels anyway then no reason not to go tubeless (still confused as to the difference between tubeless and tubeless ready...), but since I don't need new wheels there is nothing that compelling about moving to tubeless at the moment. Not overly fussed about puncture protection since I ride on nice roads and am pretty careful about monitoring wear on my tires - have had one puncture in the last 3 years and that was a freak bit of metal that ripped a slash in the tire that wouldn't have sealed anyway. And rolling resistance seems to basically be a wash if you use latex tubes (which I do).

Likely in the market for a new bike in a year or two, so will be a lateish adopter and jump to both tubeless and disc brakes all in one go!

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:35

Post #14 of 374 (12695 views)

OddSlug wrote:

I'm not sure how to manage it in a thread but one way a group could be useful is flagging good/bad tire and wheel combinations. My understanding is that there are small differences in sizes that mean for some combinations it is extremely hard to get the tire on. I'm not sure exactly what the problem would be with a larger tire/smaller wheel combo but presumably there is one or the variance wouldn't exist. Harder to seal? More likely to blow off?

That may just be a list of combos with a rating/vote for ease of setup. With enough info you could presumably work out where each tire/wheel is on the smaller/larger scale and make an educated guess about how an unlisted combo might work.

Or that may already exist somewhere and someone replies with a link to it.

We've looked into doing a database for this. Tough part is pulling it off in a reasonably time-efficient manner.

"I'm not sure exactly what the problem would be with a larger tire/smaller wheel combo but presumably there is one or the variance wouldn't exist. Harder to seal? More likely to blow off? "

The loose-fitting combos require an air compressor or CO2 to install the tires. You have to blast the beads quickly into place, or all of the air rushes out. I suppose you could say they're more likely to blow off, but I've never heard of this. Tubeless beads are made to be pretty robust. The exception may be with hookless rim beads. This has been around for fat bikes and MTB for a little while now, and it's making its way to road/gravel for some brands. We're looking more in to this. It seems that you may not be able to run tubed tires on these, because the beads aren't strong enough and need the bead hooks for retention.

EDIT: Confirmed - at least for the ENVE SES AR 4.5... you can ONLY run a tubeless-ready tire on them (yes, you could put a tube inside if you really want). You need the strong tubeless-ready tire beads.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Last edited by: gregk: Jul 24, 19 7:54

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:38

Post #15 of 374 (12688 views)

burnthesheep wrote:

I have a set of Giant PSLR aero wheels. I've always ran them clincher. They're from around 2015 or so as things were moving to 11spd being the norm on 105 components and nicer.

The spec sheets all say they're TLR. Has anyone owned this wheelset and tried it as TL? The tires on it are due for change, and my spare GP4000's are also fairly worn. Those maybe have 500 miles or so left on them, mostly sidewall wear/cuts.

I'm interested in converting to the new GP5000's, but if these work well as TL I'd be down for trying it if people have done it without much pain.

I also have the other Giant wheelset that came with the bike, alloy aero PA2 wheels. Supposedly those are also TLR. Same question for those. I'd run those in a 28mm for mixed road and light gravel use.

Thanks!

I'm not familiar with those wheels, but you should check with Giant if there is any tubeless conversion kit required. At a minimum, you'll need tubeless-specific rim tape and valves (some rims want you to use a specific valve, too). Conti makes a tubeless-specific version of the GP5000 - that's the tire you'd need. You can't run the tubed version tubeless.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cartsman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:48

Post #16 of 374 (12668 views)

cartsman wrote:

Thanks. Sounds like if I was buying new wheels anyway then no reason not to go tubeless (still confused as to the difference between tubeless and tubeless ready...),

This is mostly just a semantic detail. Pretty much everything today is called "tubeless ready" (a.k.a. TR, TLR, etc). This just means that you can set the wheels/tires up tubeless, but you don't have to. For example, a Hed Vanquish is tubeless-ready, but you can run inner tubes and standard clincher tires.

The only exception, that I mentioned in another response, is that there are some new hookless rim beads - the ENVE SES 4.5 AR wheelset, for example. Their website says that you may ONLY use tubeless or tubeless-ready tires. So that wheel is officially ONLY a tubeless wheel (of course, you can put an inner tube inside of a tubeless-ready tire... but the point is that you need those sturdy TLR tire beads). I have to imagine that such wheels will come with clear warning labels because that's a completely new frontier.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 7:56

Post #17 of 374 (12660 views)

I went tubeless pretty early on, maybe 4-5 years ago. I got a set of Shimano Ultegra TLR wheels when I was rebuilding my road bike with 11-speed. At the time there weren't a lot of choices on tires. My shop couldn't get me the Schwalbe (One?) at the time, so I went with Hutchinson, since that was who Shimano worked with on their TL development.

It took a bit to figure out the tricks to getting the tires seated the first time, but they haven't been too bad since. The tires have been fine since.

My question is, has the tire technology improved enough in the last few years to justify replacing them before they are completely worn out?

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [efernand] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 8:04

Post #18 of 374 (12654 views)

efernand wrote:

I went tubeless pretty early on, maybe 4-5 years ago. I got a set of Shimano Ultegra TLR wheels when I was rebuilding my road bike with 11-speed. At the time there weren't a lot of choices on tires. My shop couldn't get me the Schwalbe (One?) at the time, so I went with Hutchinson, since that was who Shimano worked with on their TL development.

It took a bit to figure out the tricks to getting the tires seated the first time, but they haven't been too bad since. The tires have been fine since.

My question is, has the tire technology improved enough in the last few years to justify replacing them before they are completely worn out?

If it was me, the answer is no. Just wear out what you have if it's working (especially if you're just training on it).

The larger issue might be tubeless tire selection. I'll quote myself from an earlier response -

"To me, the bigger question to ask yourself before making the jump is whether you can find the right tire to suit your needs in terms of puncture resistance. For example, with most brands' tubed road tires, you can pick between ~3-4 levels of puncture resistance (usually affecting rolling resistance). Supersonic, GP4000, GP 4 Season, Gatorskin, for example. I don't see as many choices with tubeless. Sealant helps, but can't make up for casing thickness. At least for training, I don't want a thin race tire - tubed or tubeless."

I don't know what model of Hutchinson you're on, but it's worthwhile to do some research to find if your desired replacement tire has a similar level of puncture resistance (assuming that's what you want).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 8:26

Post #19 of 374 (12635 views)

Just my experiences in a nutshell:

Road

Mavic Road UST: just works. Tires mount and dismount just as easy as a clincher. Never had an issue with seating a tire. Tires seem quite durable in use.
HED Jet Black: I've tried various tubeless tires on these over the years

Vittoria Corsa Speed: tough to mount, tough to seat, very fragile in use, had two flats on perfect roads neither of which sealed well enough to not put air in. Also witnessed numerous VCS flats as a sag driver last year for IMFL
GP 5000 TL: tough to mount, tough to seat, initial durability impression is favorable
Schwalbe Pro One: tough to mount, seating wasn't bad, no flats but tread seemed to wear quickly. This was a couple years ago so the tire has likely changed since.
Specialized Turbo Tubeless: easy to mount, seating wasn't bad, fairly durable in use

Gravel

Reynolds ATR

Specialized Sawtooth: easy to mount, easy to seat, never had a flat
WTB Riddler: sigh to mount, tough to seat, had a few flats but they all self-repaired during the ride with minimal pressure loss

Some generic alloy FSA tubeless ready 650b rims

Schwalbe G-One: easy to mount, easy to seat, had a few flats but they all self-repaired during the ride with minimal pressure loss
Compass Babyshoe: too easy to mount, had to build the rim bed up with tape significantly, seated easily one I had the proper amount of tape, had a few flats but they all self-repaired during the ride with minimal pressure loss

Mountain
Long list of tires, favorable experiences with mounting and seating all of them. Flat protection from tubeless really seems to shine for mtb.

General summary:

For road, the only tubeless system I'd recommend to a friend would be Mavic's Road UST system. The variance in experiences I had with tubeless on my HED Jets isn't HED's fault necessarily but rather a lack of tolerance control between the rim and tire manufacturer.
In my experience there's definitely a trend between tire pressure and ability for tubeless to self-seal and casing thickness and ability for tubeless to self seal. Lower pressures mean the sealant is more likely to be effective and thicker casing means the sealant is more likely to be effective.
In terms of practicality of tubeless for road use, I think you really have to weigh the mode of failure, the likelihood of failure, how quickly you can repair a tubed flat, and how quickly you can repair a tubeless flat. Keep in mind that road tubeless *can* be effective in sealing simple punctures but won't save you from a sidewall cut. In my own calculus, it makes sense to race on tubeless for short course races but tubed tires for long course. If I did extensive on-road training, I'd likely favor training on Mavic's Road UST tires.
For gravel, I think things move a bit more in favor of tubeless though I could still see an argument for a tubed setup in certain conditions.
For mountain, the only option is tubeless in my opinion.

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:07

Post #20 of 374 (12595 views)

Any idea what tire width and pressure Sebi is running? Or what they are running in the pro peloton for pressures?

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:14

Post #21 of 374 (12588 views)

Speaking from my MTB experience - some brands of tyres can be easily used tubeless even if its not indicated by the manufacturer (e.g. Schwalbe). In case of Conti - never try to run their standard tyres as tubeless. The key factor is the construction of sidewalls. In case of Conti race tyres the sidewalls are so thin that the sealant seeps through the pores in side walls without ever sealing them. Their TL tyres are quite bit stiffer than nonTL.

I would expect the same would be true also for road variants. TL will probably not be quite as supple as nonTL. Lack of tube may even things out, but not necessarily.

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [otebski] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:26

Post #22 of 374 (12578 views)

otebski wrote:

Speaking from my MTB experience - some brands of tyres can be easily used tubeless even if its not indicated by the manufacturer (e.g. Schwalbe).

I would expect the same would be true also for road variants. TL will probably not be quite as supple as nonTL. Lack of tube may even things out, but not necessarily.

If you're suggesting that you can run a standard clincher tire and convert it to tubeless, this is not true, and dangerous. Road pressures are MUCH higher and you cannot convert a non-TLR road tire to tubeless. The home page article I referenced covers this.

Now, I'm sure someone out there has converted a non-tubeless road tire to tubeless without crashing, but it is absolutely not recommended. In theory the thinner casings of the non-TLR tires would be more supple, but it isn't worth the risk. And even at that, the latest tubeless tires have gotten a lot more supple/forgiving/comfortable.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:44

Post #23 of 374 (12562 views)

gregk wrote:

pk wrote:

out of interest given that kienle was riding solo would it been faster to try to pump up and /or put an inner tube in or keep going as he did ( he did lose time in corners besides losing a good bit of trye preseeure ) ? cant rember when he punctured but it was between 120-130 k ?

and have you changed your personal opinion on tubeless or is it still the same ?

It's tough to say. If I was in his shoes, I probably would've just kept riding. Sometimes with road tubeless, the sealant can't keep the puncture closed over a certain PSI (personal experience puts this at roughly 50-80psi. If you're running 25-26mm tires (common size now for tri, especially with wide rims), this is usually enough to limp home.

As for my personal opinion, I can't recall but there's probably a thread out there that has summed it up. The key issue I've had over time with road tubeless is hit-and-miss tire/rim fit between brands. This is also a key concern of Dan, and it's one of the drivers behind this thread (i.e. get more intelligent tubeless discussion going, so we can find setups and standards that work, and encourage manufacturers to be aware of the discussion and desire for easy installation).

MTB has largely gotten over this hurdle, by way of better rim shapes, better bead materials, and better, more consistent tire sizing. My last MTB (don't currently have one) was tubeless. My road bike and tri bike currently are not, though I have some stuff on the way from Schwalbe to test. My other issue is that I have equipment coming and going fairly frequently, so it often isn't practical from a time standpoint to set up everything tubeless (nor do manufacturers always send their tubeless kit, or tubeless-ready tires). I'm kind of at the mercy of what they want to send.

good stuff thats a very good idea to try to bring the industry together and i would add its not just wheel and tyre maker but also the sealant maker should be included.

personaly after having tired sealant i would not go back to it until the sealants work more reliable. I could do with the more work but i dont want more work with the uncertainty that it will work .
and in case of kienle i gues it borderline worked for the rear tyre but intestingly apart from his , all the more high flyers that punctured in roth and frankfurt where front wheel punctures and i doubt even sebi would have been able to go on with the low pressure at front wheel with out losing more time.
ps what i would say is that wheels that can just be run tubeless is not a very practical idea ( at least now ) given the fact that often you will still need to put a tube in to get home after a sidewall issue.

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [pk] [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:49

Post #24 of 374 (12556 views)

pk wrote:

ps what i would say is that wheels that can just be run tubeless is not a very practical idea ( at least now ) given the fact that often you will still need to put a tube in to get home after a sidewall issue.

There are wheels that must use a TLR tire (i.e. the hookless ENVE 4.5 AR) - but you can still put a tube inside to get home. The hookless rim needs that sturdy tubeless-ready tire bead... but you can technically still put an inner tube inside.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/

Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [ In reply to ]

Jul 24, 19 9:54

Post #25 of 374 (12550 views)

On Tri, road and gravel I am running a triple Bontrager set-up with Bontrager R3 or AW3 TLR tires, mated to various Bontrager BLR carbon wheels and running the Bontrager sealant. Over three race seasons no in-race or training ride flats even or crap roads and on some big square edge hits. Most issues have been on initial installation or having the valve get gunked up. As I am lazy, I usually just have my LBS install them for me.

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