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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]
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Blainyboy8 wrote:
To no one in particular, just thought I would share my experience with my latest setup:
Wheels - Hed Jet 6 Black
Tires - Schwalbe new Pro one 2020 tubeless 25mm
Valves - Silca 80 mm tubeless with speedshield. The speedshield is key if you are trying to set up a pair of Hed Jets tubeless, IMO.
Sealant - Stans regular
Tape - Silca Tubeless 25mm

Tires went on without the use of any tools or levers, they were by no means easy though. I wouldn't love having to put a tube in there on the side of a road during a race, but it would be doable. The funny part was the first bead was actually harder to get on than the second bead. Well ok maybe not harder, but probably the hardest 'first bead' I have ever experienced. Setting the second bead took a minute or two just working it back and forth and making sure it was in the channel. Basically just had to muscle the last couple inches of tire bead on the rim, lever probably would have made it easier but wanted to see if I could get it done without a tool. It was nice not having to worry about pinching a tube in there. On the side of a road, if you had to insert a tube, those last couple inches would be a little more of a pain, since you have to be a little more delicate with the tube.

Anyways - got them both on, aired up with compressor, no really loud pings or pops, just kinda seated themselves. Took out the valve to add sealant and one of the beads would come undone. Tried this a couple times, letting the air out very slowly, but couldnt get both sides to stay in. Added the sealant with injector anyways, aired them back up, didnt have a drop of sealant anywhere and everything seated up nicely again. Everything seemed to hold up good overnight.

Tires measured out to 27mm, although that is probably at something close to 100 psi, which I would never run that high on these tires and rims, just kinda threw that much in there when I was setting them up.

Not that any of those is news breaking, but yes, HED jets are able to set up tubeless with the right stuff.

Oh also forgot to add that this was my first time using a heat gun on tubeless tape (i have probably set up a dozen or so wheel sets tubeless before this), what a game changer! Adding just enough heat to really seal the edges down and help with the bubbles resulted in the cleanest, least bubbly, tape job i have ever seen. go pick up the cheap 13 dollar one at Harbor Freight.

Thanks for the report. The Jet Plus and Jet Black stuff has been using a tubeless inner rim profile for some time now, but I've only used them with MTB tires (on an Ardennes Plus... same rim). Interesting to see that inflated tire size (27mm)... I haven't seen many actual inflated sizes since Schwalbe re-did their sizing (the 2020 Pro One is supposed to inflate true-to-size on a 19mm inner rim width, vs 15mm for the older stuff). I've used a bunch of older tubed 25mm tires on Hed Plus rims, and they typically inflate to 28-29mm.

Just curious - did you attempt to inflate with a floor pump, or did you go straight to the air compressor?

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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straight to compressor. I have one in my garage that I use all the time for other stuff, its just too easy!
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Blainyboy8] [ In reply to ]
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This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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What are people doing during the winter with their tubeless wheels/tires? I live in a place with snow and a true winter, so there is a solid 3 month period where outside riding is rare. From my understanding if the wheels are in the garage sitting unused the sealant will dry up. Are people removing the sealant and then putting in fresh stuff in the spring? Or just leave it in there and let it cake up and clean it up in the spring? Go out and spin the wheels by hand a couple times a week to keep things from drying out?

Matt
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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Agree...it should be the actual size of tire that matters...not what is printed on the tire...imo
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
What are people doing during the winter with their tubeless wheels/tires? I live in a place with snow and a true winter, so there is a solid 3 month period where outside riding is rare. From my understanding if the wheels are in the garage sitting unused the sealant will dry up. Are people removing the sealant and then putting in fresh stuff in the spring? Or just leave it in there and let it cake up and clean it up in the spring? Go out and spin the wheels by hand a couple times a week to keep things from drying out?
I am going to take my sealant out. Then remount the tires. Then I can just add sealant through the stem this spring. Last year I took the tires off the rim for the winter and had a tough time remounting them the following spring.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Chemist] [ In reply to ]
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Chemist wrote:
What are people doing during the winter with their tubeless wheels/tires? I live in a place with snow and a true winter, so there is a solid 3 month period where outside riding is rare. From my understanding if the wheels are in the garage sitting unused the sealant will dry up. Are people removing the sealant and then putting in fresh stuff in the spring? Or just leave it in there and let it cake up and clean it up in the spring? Go out and spin the wheels by hand a couple times a week to keep things from drying out?

We've already discussed winter-related issues a fair bit - you can display all pages of the thread on one page (at the bottom-left of the main forum page), and CTRL-F to search for 'winter'.

Long story short - all of the above. Tubeless tires tend to leak down faster than (butyl) tubed tires, so you need to pump them up every few weeks, and give them a spin to mix the sealant. Yes, the sealant will dry out. You can remove it, but that will also put you at more risk for losing the tubeless seal.

I'd just pump them up and spin them periodically, inject more sealant every ~4 months, and completely remove the tires annually to clean them out.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Not being a tubeless rider, l am curious, how easy or hard of a job is it to clean out a set of tires with last year's sealant?

Do you have to use any specific cleaners or solvents or methods to remove the sealant?

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"Why would you want to be the last man alive on a sinking ship?"....-- on why Tesla shares its patents with competitors.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Not being a tubeless rider, l am curious, how easy or hard of a job is it to clean out a set of tires with last year's sealant?

Do you have to use any specific cleaners or solvents or methods to remove the sealant?

This article discusses it - I use Simple Green bike formula and a rag. Some manufacturers recommend soap, water, and a brush to 100% clean out the tire.

As far as easy vs hard - this mostly has to do with how tightly your tires fit on your wheels.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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The article mentions that the sealant removal and cleaning has to be done at least once per year, but there is zero info on the details and method of the cleaning process itself.

Ignoring the removal of the tires from the rims, how difficult is the actual process of getting all of the gunk off your old tires and rims?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Triathlon...Direct-mount & ZeroSlip-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com....Reviews....Instagram....Facebook

"Why would you want to be the last man alive on a sinking ship?"....-- on why Tesla shares its patents with competitors.
Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Nov 4, 19 7:13
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
The article mentions that the sealant removal and cleaning has to be done at least once per year, but there is zero details on the cleaning process itself.

Ignoring the removal of the tires from the rims, how difficult is the actual process of getting all of the gunk off your old tires and rims?

I mean, you wipe it out with a rag and some cleaner. It's easy. If there are some chunks here and there, you pick them out with your hand and throw them away. I don't know of any other explanation necessary.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Perfect, that's helpful.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Triathlon...Direct-mount & ZeroSlip-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com....Reviews....Instagram....Facebook

"Why would you want to be the last man alive on a sinking ship?"....-- on why Tesla shares its patents with competitors.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
We've already discussed winter-related issues a fair bit - you can display all pages of the thread on one page (at the bottom-left of the main forum page), and CTRL-F to search for 'winter'.

Thanks Greg. Unfortunately Slowtwitch doesn’t have a single-thread search functionality for mobile phones so I was having difficulty finding specific posts

Matt
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Ignoring the removal of the tires from the rims, how difficult is the actual process of getting all of the gunk off your old tires and rims?

It's dried latex, you can literally just peel it off with your fingers in a few minutes per wheel. I do this every time I change a tire on a rim.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hey all - Slowman and I recently had the opportunity to do a full tour of ENVE's HQ on Ogden. I just published a tour of their testing facility, which included a gaggle of tire test rigs. Of particular interest is their massive rolling resistance tester, and their machine that measures tire bead diameter and stiffness. The latter is what drives their approved/unapproved tubeless tire list for the AR series wheels, and we'll have more editorial coming about this topic (it's important stuff).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
Last edited by: gregk: Dec 13, 19 6:16
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Link appears to be broken?

Apex Cycling - Team Manager
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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cmscat50 wrote:
Link appears to be broken?

It's on the Front Page

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...e_Test_Lab_7532.html
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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cmscat50 wrote:
Link appears to be broken?

Sorry about that - fixed it. Not sure what happened.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,
Advice wanted please. First time with tubeless.

Attempting to install GP5000 25mm Tubeless on Flo disc using Continental accessory pack (tape, sealant , valves etc). After reading threads, watching videos
I managed to get the tyre on and it inflated relatively easily (no sealant added yet). I can't hear any obvious air loss but it was flat after a few hours.

So the question. Is this normal and should I proceed with adding sealant now and finishing the job or is there something more deeply wrong here and I should start again?

I did have a bit of struggle getting the cont rim tape into the wheel (tape was quite wide).

With thanks.
Johovoshta
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [johovishta] [ In reply to ]
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johovishta wrote:
Hi there,
Advice wanted please. First time with tubeless.

Attempting to install GP5000 25mm Tubeless on Flo disc using Continental accessory pack (tape, sealant , valves etc). After reading threads, watching videos
I managed to get the tyre on and it inflated relatively easily (no sealant added yet). I can't hear any obvious air loss but it was flat after a few hours.

So the question. Is this normal and should I proceed with adding sealant now and finishing the job or is there something more deeply wrong here and I should start again?

I did have a bit of struggle getting the cont rim tape into the wheel (tape was quite wide).

With thanks.
Johovoshta

Hard to say for certain. Most modern tubeless setups do say that you need tubeless-approved sealant to ensure a good seal (i.e. they're suggesting that they won't hold air long-term without sealant). If I was in your shoes, there are something I'd consider before proceeding:

-How easy or tight the tires were to get on (if they were loose, I'd remove the tire and install additional layers of tape).
-How cleanly the tire beads snapped up on to the bead shelf (if they seemed finicky or had a hard time going up in to place, I'd likely remove the tire and reinstall with generous amounts of bead lubricant... since they may not have been fully seated the first time).
-I'd check to be sure that the tubeless valve was installed correctly with all parts, and tightened sufficiently.

That said, I don't have experience with your wheel/tire/tape combo, so maybe someone else can chime in if they've used that setup.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [johovishta] [ In reply to ]
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I would add the sealant.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [johovishta] [ In reply to ]
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I have been running tubeless on the road for years. I always mount up the tire without sealant first to ensure the bead will snap into place quickly. I then deflate and remove the valve core and add sealant through there. Then re-inflate to desired pressure and spin the wheel for a bit to spread the sealant around the bead and valve core if it were going to leak. Occasionally I will use warm soapy water on the tire bead if it does not seat flush right away. Always use sealant, otherwise why would you go tubeless? Sealant works well to fill small holes from thorns or goatheads around where I live sealing up the tire and allowing you to continue your ride. Also, just because you get a puncture and it seals up fine, there are lots of ways to patch the hole later so you do not have to replace the tire.

As for the rim tape, check the spec on the ID of your rim and make sure you are using rim tape that is that width. Too wide and the tire fits tight, too narrow and the tire is loose. You can always do a double wrap if the tire is loose and you need to snug up the fit. I have mounted 100s of road tires and just as many mountain ones on all sorts of rims. If it takes longer than 5 minutes from start to finish there is probably something simple preventing the installation.

On the losing air without sealant question my guess is that it was leaking through the valve core. Meaning the valve nut was not tight enough. If it was leaking through the bead it would be visually and audibly noticeable. You could also apply warm soapy water around the tire and see if you see any small air bubbles coming out.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [erik+] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the input everyone.

The tyres were a total pain in butt to fit on the wheel - I was close to giving up so I dread to think how they could be tighter.
The valve head had gotten looser but retightening and the same thing happened.

Based on this I think I will go for the sealant and cross my fingers.
Thanks again !/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [johovishta] [ In reply to ]
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The biggest key when installing the tire is to make sure the opposing side bead is fully in the center of the rim, or the shallowest part. This gives you way more stretch room to work with when working the other bead up and over onto the rim. If done properly most tires go on the majority of the rims out there pretty easily (tubeless ready rims much more so). Its a bit of technique to learn, but if you are struggling with it, chances are something is not lined up right. I have used the Schwalbe, Contis, Maxxis, and Hutchinson tires without issue on lots of rims. Sometimes I will pre-stretch a tire beforehand as well. Not sure if that is manufacture approved or not, but I have never had a tire rip off the rim while riding (aside from MTB, which was a low pressure hard corner scenario). I picked up the pre-stretch technique from a pro mechanic I won't name, but I think quite a few out there do it. Basically you just use two hands spaced shoulder width apart and pull outward on the tire and then rotate it and keep stretching until you have gone all the way around, then flip it over and stretch the bead on the other side of the tire.

If anyone else out there rides dirtbikes you might have an idea what a real struggle is getting a tire on, especially out in the middle of nowhere, let alone in a warm cozy garage.

It's all in the technique and procedure though. It will take more than your first few attempts to get comfortable with it. Just don't get frustrated and think it through a bit when doing each step. Probably the best way to learn would be to watch others do it in person if you have a shop you can go to and get some hands on training.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Howdy ya'll -

In direct response to questions here in the tubeless super thread, we now have an article/video showing specifically how to clean out your tubeless tires. Enjoy!

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Founder of Minimal Multisport Athlete website, blog, podcast, and Youtube channel: https://www.minimalmultisport.com/
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