Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marting wrote:
This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.

Yeah, but who rides in high yaw conditions?
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [johovishta] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just for the record. Sealant went into the 5000TL with Flo Wheels. All good - a few rides on the road in now and all seems fine .....
thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Mudge wrote:
marting wrote:
This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.


Yeah, but who rides in high yaw conditions?

Most of the time, we don’t. But when it matters, it matters - the high yaw conditions are those that cause handling problems when the wheel stalls: blustery days, or less blustery days with gaps in hedges, between buildings, large fast moving passing vehicles etc. These days are quite common (for me at least) and I want to be confident in the handling of my bike in such conditions.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marting wrote:
Mudge wrote:
marting wrote:
This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.


Yeah, but who rides in high yaw conditions?


Most of the time, we don’t. But when it matters, it matters - the high yaw conditions are those that cause handling problems when the wheel stalls: blustery days, or less blustery days with gaps in hedges, between buildings, large fast moving passing vehicles etc. These days are quite common (for me at least) and I want to be confident in the handling of my bike in such conditions.

I’ve ridden Jet 9+ with Corsa Speed G in 23 that stalled badly in gusty winds; and HED 3+ as well as Jet 6+ with 5000TL in 25 that wouldn’t stall, regardless of winds. My hunch is the wheel itself is a much greater factor in handling than tire choice is (within reason).
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marting wrote:
This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.

So does anyone make a 23mm tubeless tire? I'm getting a front wheel built up with a 24mm wide KinLin rim. Does that mean my only option is a 22/23mm regular clincher tire? No tubless to fit within the 105% rule?
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbie Hancock wrote:
marting wrote:
This setup (Jet6 plus + 25mm tyres) illustrates where I’m getting stuck. If the tyre measures 27mm, then it violates Josh Poertner’s “rule of 105” (google it) on Jet+ rims, suggesting it will be aerodynamically compromised in moderate to high yaw conditions.

I’ve reluctantly come to accept that 23mm tyres (measuring 25mm on these rims) with latex tubes, may well be the best aero/rolling resistance/hassle compromise for these wheels.


So does anyone make a 23mm tubeless tire? I'm getting a front wheel built up with a 24mm wide KinLin rim. Does that mean my only option is a 22/23mm regular clincher tire? No tubless to fit within the 105% rule?

I was going to say Hutchinson, but I just looked at their website quickly and couldn't find anything in 700x23. I know they used to make them. I also thought Bonty, but came up dry.

My guess is that they saw where the sales were trending in general (i.e. wider tires), and also factored in that road tubeless doesn't work all that great with narrow tires (due to the very high pressures, which make sealing punctures more difficult).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for looking. All I can find is the Vittoria Corsa Speed in 23mm. Anyone have any experience with this tire?

https://www.excelsports.com/...major=1&minor=56
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbie Hancock wrote:
Thanks for looking. All I can find is the Vittoria Corsa Speed in 23mm. Anyone have any experience with this tire?

https://www.excelsports.com/...major=1&minor=56

I momentarily forgot about that one. So far the consensus seems to be that they're extremely fast, but also extremely fragile.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gregk wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
Thanks for looking. All I can find is the Vittoria Corsa Speed in 23mm. Anyone have any experience with this tire?

https://www.excelsports.com/...major=1&minor=56


I momentarily forgot about that one. So far the consensus seems to be that they're extremely fast, but also extremely fragile.

It will be a race only tire for me so the Vittoria may work. I also found this Bontrager.
https://www.trekbikes.com/...085/?colorCode=black

Which would you go with out of the two? Looking for a race only front tire for olympics and halfs.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbie Hancock wrote:
gregk wrote:
Herbie Hancock wrote:
Thanks for looking. All I can find is the Vittoria Corsa Speed in 23mm. Anyone have any experience with this tire?

https://www.excelsports.com/...major=1&minor=56


I momentarily forgot about that one. So far the consensus seems to be that they're extremely fast, but also extremely fragile.


It will be a race only tire for me so the Vittoria may work. I also found this Bontrager.
https://www.trekbikes.com/...085/?colorCode=black

Which would you go with out of the two? Looking for a race only front tire for olympics and halfs.

Personally, probably neither. The Vittoria is more of the "race only", but I don't mess with those tires anymore (having had flat tires that have cost me races). If I was going to be racing and had to have tubeless, I'd use one of the 25mm options out there.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I've noted an issue with my tubeless setup on my road bike and think I've narrowed it down to my valve stems. I use TruckerCo Cream sealant, which is a latex based sealant with little chunks of rubber tube finely chopped up. It is similar to Stans Race formula afaik. Anyway I noted that my valves seemed to have air flow problems which is not good for mounting tubeless wheels.

The stems are somewhat modular and when I remove the stem part that threads into the wheel, there is a reduced diameter area that the chunks get caught up in. When I mounted my recent set of 5000 TLs on my HED Jet +s, I was having a hard time getting them to seat until I pulled the stem and clean it out with a small drill bit.

So... it's helpful to know that my stems do get clogged and probably are the reason I've had with some mounting/seating... but ideally I'd like a stem that doesn't have that thin passage that seems to get clogged... they're ZIPP stems btw.

Recommendations for stems that work well with sealant that has chunks of stuff in it?
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Any idea of what the fastest 25mm option will be? Continental GP 5000, Schwalbe Pro One or Vittoria Corsa 2.0?
Last edited by: Herbie Hancock: Jan 28, 20 16:49
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [xeon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
xeon wrote:
Recommendations for stems that work well with sealant that has chunks of stuff in it?

Try a sealant injector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMvM_nqftM

The actual injector can get clogged by bigger bits in the sealant but it does keep the valve stem clear. You can also fold up the end of a pipe cleaner and use that too.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think it's splitting hairs with these three. Get the ones you can mount the best.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Herbie Hancock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Herbie Hancock wrote:
Any idea of what the fastest 25mm option will be? Continental GP 5000, Schwalbe Pr One or Vittoria Corsa 2.0?

Check out Tom Anhalt's website... and I think the Bicycle Rolling Resistance site probably has up-to-date stuff. And it depends on how you define fastest... aero? Rolling? Ability to actually finish the race? It can mean a lot of things to a lot of people. If I had to guess, the Vittoria is probably the "fastest" on paper. I'd go with one of the other options.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So many good choices! Thanks for your help Greg.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [xeon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
xeon wrote:
I've noted an issue with my tubeless setup on my road bike and think I've narrowed it down to my valve stems. I use TruckerCo Cream sealant, which is a latex based sealant with little chunks of rubber tube finely chopped up. It is similar to Stans Race formula afaik. Anyway I noted that my valves seemed to have air flow problems which is not good for mounting tubeless wheels.

The stems are somewhat modular and when I remove the stem part that threads into the wheel, there is a reduced diameter area that the chunks get caught up in. When I mounted my recent set of 5000 TLs on my HED Jet +s, I was having a hard time getting them to seat until I pulled the stem and clean it out with a small drill bit.

So... it's helpful to know that my stems do get clogged and probably are the reason I've had with some mounting/seating... but ideally I'd like a stem that doesn't have that thin passage that seems to get clogged... they're ZIPP stems btw.

Recommendations for stems that work well with sealant that has chunks of stuff in it?

I'm not familiar with that sealant, and I don't know of any valve stems that are designed specifically for sealants with large chunks. Most valve stems seem to have an opening of about 3mm (on the side that faces the tire).

Couple of things to think about:

1) Clogging valves and valve cores - to a degree, this is simply part of life with tubeless. Valve cores get gummed up, so I keep a handful of spares and change them out as needed (typically every 6 months or so depending on the sealant). The backside can get clogged too. I just posted a new article with an in-depth video on cleaning out tubeless sealant, including that back side of the valve you're talking about. I clean them out every time I have to open up the tire for any reason (i.e. when I need to add sealant, or do my ~annual clean out of the tire itself). Tweezers work well, as can blowing compressed air through the valve stem.

2) Try a different sealant. I had an issue with the Conti Revo sealant where it was gluing my valve cores entirely shut in only a few weeks. I quit using it. They might have addressed this since then (it was years ago), but it was too much hassle. Caffelatex is on the thinner side, and may be worth trying out (it can actually inject *through* the valve core). But if you do change sealants, you'll need to remove the tire and clean everything out really well (as mentioned in my recent video).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Blackbeard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Blackbeard wrote:
xeon wrote:
Recommendations for stems that work well with sealant that has chunks of stuff in it?


Try a sealant injector
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fmMvM_nqftM

The actual injector can get clogged by bigger bits in the sealant but it does keep the valve stem clear. You can also fold up the end of a pipe cleaner and use that too.

There's also a nifty video about that exact injector done by the genius cycling experts at Slowtwitch World Headquarters.... ;) https://www.slowtwitch.com/...re_Sealant_7437.html

And if you buy one through the Amazon link in the Youtube video description, I'll get a "massive" kickback of about 50 cents! Don't worry, I won't spend it all in one place :D

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
gregk wrote:
I'm not familiar with that sealant, and I don't know of any valve stems that are designed specifically for sealants with large chunks. Most valve stems seem to have an opening of about 3mm (on the side that faces the tire).

Couple of things to think about:

1) Clogging valves and valve cores - to a degree, this is simply part of life with tubeless. Valve cores get gummed up, so I keep a handful of spares and change them out as needed (typically every 6 months or so depending on the sealant). The backside can get clogged too. I just posted a new article with an in-depth video on cleaning out tubeless sealant, including that back side of the valve you're talking about. I clean them out every time I have to open up the tire for any reason (i.e. when I need to add sealant, or do my ~annual clean out of the tire itself). Tweezers work well, as can blowing compressed air through the valve stem.

2) Try a different sealant. I had an issue with the Conti Revo sealant where it was gluing my valve cores entirely shut in only a few weeks. I quit using it. They might have addressed this since then (it was years ago), but it was too much hassle. Caffelatex is on the thinner side, and may be worth trying out (it can actually inject *through* the valve core). But if you do change sealants, you'll need to remove the tire and clean everything out really well (as mentioned in my recent video).
The Zipps are much smaller than 3mm, I forget the size bit I used off the top of my head to clear the opening, but it wall pretty small. I do have an injector but it just has the hose and not the snorkel like the KOM version uses and I'm not so sure they snorkel would clear the opening even when its clear. It's a pretty restricted opening.

Trying a different sealant is a great suggestion and thanks for the Caffelatex specific idea.

I may snag the KOM injector and see if it does clear... otherwise I guess I could just remove the stem as opposed to the presta valve to inject sealant.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sorry Greg! I didn't see your post/video when I replied.

Here is the link to the KOM injector that helps out Greg/Slowtwitch
https://amzn.to/2ngtBKM
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for the link to a great article. I'm planning to go tubeless this spring. I hang my bike upside down from hooks in my garage ceiling. I hang it above the hood of my car. If the sealant leaks, would it damage my car? Thanks again
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [amoz04t] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
amoz04t wrote:
Thank you for the link to a great article. I'm planning to go tubeless this spring. I hang my bike upside down from hooks in my garage ceiling. I hang it above the hood of my car. If the sealant leaks, would it damage my car? Thanks again

It'll likely depend on both the sealant and the paint. Most sealants use some type of antifreeze in the mix (most use propylene glycol, but I remember doing a bunch of research years ago and some used ethylene glycol). I'm not a car paint expert, but a quick Google search showed that ethylene antifreezes were known for damaging car paint. But also - that's old paint, and that newer paints should hold up better.

So it's kind of up in the air. The good news is that, if your tubeless setup is successful and air tight, it shouldn't really be leaking any sealant. Usually the only substantial puddles/messes I see are when the initial seal isn't great, and the bike sits for a couple months so the tires deflate entirely - causing the tires to become unsealed/unseated. If you keep the tires aired up, it shouldn't be an issue. If you see a drip or two of sealant on your hood, wipe it off with a quick detail spray. And if you take good care of protecting your paint, that'll help too (but that's for another thread... I use Meguiar's Ultimate Quik Wax spray... it's the best, longest-lasting spray wax I've found, and only adds 5-10 min to the car wash process).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So cycling news posted an article about tubeless tires and the one thing that stuck out to me was that adoption in the pro peloton has been rare due to lack of reliability... Am I the only one confused by this? I feel like most of the complaints has not been about reliability but more around what benefit it really brings to us. Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention but since I converted to tubeless early last year, I've been thrilled

808 > NYC > PDX
2020 Races?: Nope.
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hadukla wrote:
So cycling news posted an article about tubeless tires and the one thing that stuck out to me was that adoption in the pro peloton has been rare due to lack of reliability... Am I the only one confused by this? I feel like most of the complaints has not been about reliability but more around what benefit it really brings to us. Maybe I haven't been paying enough attention but since I converted to tubeless early last year, I've been thrilled

I just read through the article, and I don't think it really gave enough detail to explain the situation (likely because it's not feasible for the author to interview the hundreds of current and past mechanics and team directors that would be necessary to paint a complete picture).

A few thoughts:

-First and foremost, they don't define what they mean by 'reliability'. Consistency of wheel/tire fit? Puncture protection? Hassle for the mechanics? Air retention? Something else?

-What time frame are we talking about? Some teams experimented with tubeless many years ago, when tire fit was *really* all over the map. Sometimes a team tries something early-on and it sucks... and they're scared to revisit it years later after the technology has improved. We need more info.

-As far as the mechanical side of it - while tubeless can be some hassle, I can't see it being worse for a team than a truck full of tubulars. But I haven't been to any grand tour races to work with the mechanics in quite a few years (i.e. I could be missing something).

-The thing that I still see that makes sense for pro peloton riders to use tubulars is the ability to ride them flat for a while. Plus they still tend to be the lightest possible wheel/tire setup.

-Finally, I received the same press release that sparked their article. Equipment sponsors make announcements. Writers often have quotas to hit. It's within reason that this article just could've been written because that author needed an article to write this week, and they explained the situation to the best of their ability under their given constraints (i.e. time, pay, etc). All I'm saying is - there may not actually be much news here, and it shouldn't necessarily inform your personal equipment choices. I see this situation all the time, where readers think that there's a big agenda, but really it's just that a freelance writer is trying to put words out to make a few bucks.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Quote Reply
Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So I have a very basic question, how do I get the tires on? LOL
Seems super simple, I have watched a few youtube videos, applied soap to the rim, but I just can't seem to get the last section of tire over the rim.
Quote Reply

Prev Next