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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv,
I don't have a background in adhesives.
it's our recommendation to tape up the rim and then inflate a tire WITH tube for a few minutes in order to get the tape to adhere firmly. It works well, but as more of an adhesive expert than me, do you have thoughts on time to fully adhere that tape under pressure?
thanks,

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [andy tetmeyer] [ In reply to ]
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andy tetmeyer wrote:
Benv,
I don't have a background in adhesives.
it's our recommendation to tape up the rim and then inflate a tire WITH tube for a few minutes in order to get the tape to adhere firmly. It works well, but as more of an adhesive expert than me, do you have thoughts on time to fully adhere that tape under pressure?
thanks,
In general it accomplishes the same thing, but under pressure it'll go much faster. The adhesive surface is not perfectly flat nor is the rim surface, and pressure forces better contact between the two, thereby improving the bond. In the PSA industry it's very common to measure peel strengths after a 20' dwell (bond) time as a way to standardize and minimize time related effects. Some products are measured after 24h but that's less common than the 20' specification. Point being that after 20' dwell, the peel strength will be close to the final peel strength, but that's not always the case for every adhesive. Some take longer to build and then specify a peel strength after 24h instead. Since I don't know the chemistry of the rim tape adhesive (I'm assuming it's a crosslinked acrylic adhesive) I'd play it safe and wait a little longer before exposing it to liquids.

So when using a tube, if you inflate it fully and let it sit for 20 minutes you should get a very good and reliable bond. Chances are the bond is close to its final adhesion strength and the risk of problems is very low. That said, I'd personally follow the recommendation but let it sit under pressure overnight, just to be safe.

BTW what is our recommended rim tape for Hed Jet Plus? 21mm Stans?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:

May I suggest you have a table of recommended sealant volumes by tire size.

Also guidelines on whether carrying a spare tube, plug kit or both is reasonable for flat repair


Sealant: It varies by sealant manufacturer, but 30-60ml (1 - 2 ounces) per tire is normal for average road tires (i.e. 23 - 32mm). Any any sealant will tell you how much to use in the instructions/package. I usually err on the high side because it delays the time I have to add more sealant.

Spare: If you're going long, a plug kit and spare tube are a good idea. I normally just carry a standard flat kit (i.e. tube, CO2, tire levers, tire boot, multi tool).

You're the first mention I've seen of this and I think it's important. In the "flats" punctures I've received out riding tubeless that let out more air than I wanted. I simply stopped, plugged the hole, jammed some air in it and kept riding. It might have cost me 30-seconds to a minute. And that's only if I felt like I needed optimum pressure to finish a training ride.

I don't even carry a tube with me when I'm racing on my TT bike. If the tire was so damaged that one of the plugs I had wouldn't fix it, then my race is over anyway. Honestly, if it ever happened when I was out training I have a hard time believing that without a pretty major repair (boot, tube, patch, etc) I wouldn't have to call someone to come get me.

Plugs are an absolute must with tubeless.

I just finally tossed out a rear Schwable One Pro that had 5k+ miles on it (The front is still going strong). Some of it gravel, some of it on the road. I probably plugged the rear tire 4 times. The plug just becomes part of the tire and you move on with your ride and never worry about it.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
otebski wrote:
Honestly I see no point of TL on road bike.

did you read the interview with sebi? a number of us see a big plus to road TL in triathlon. however i respect the contrary view. but that established this is just like disc brakes in road and tri, 3 and 4 years ago. happy to discuss the relative merits. but we're traveling exactly the same trajectory, in a roughly similar time arc, with road TL as we did with road/tri disc brake. it's all going to happen way quicker than you thought it would, hence this thread, to help smooth the transition.

Hi Dan

Do think this is a bit different to the discs on road/tri bikes adoption.

A lot of rim choices have been taken away and there is a perceived safety advantage.

I'm still on rim based brakes and had a recent slow leak on my Giant Propel tubeless rear.

I had a half arsed effort at trying to patch the outside, messing with a plug to no avail.

Left the wheel lying around for a week, very tempted to tear off the tire and shove a tube in it but wary of the mess.

Took it to a shop yesterday a little surprised he just patched it on the inside and added sealant.

I'm not totally convinced if I got a puncture on a ride as to how I would resolve this as he mentioned how stiff the tyre was.

To.me the Giant Gavia feels slower the Conti GP4000S II clincher and S Works Turbo 24mm and less supple than the S Works.

Good thing is 9 months but that many miles without a puncture.

Bad news is strong chance of being stranded and I am the only driver in my household.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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Geek_fit wrote:
gregk wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:

May I suggest you have a table of recommended sealant volumes by tire size.

Also guidelines on whether carrying a spare tube, plug kit or both is reasonable for flat repair


Sealant: It varies by sealant manufacturer, but 30-60ml (1 - 2 ounces) per tire is normal for average road tires (i.e. 23 - 32mm). Any any sealant will tell you how much to use in the instructions/package. I usually err on the high side because it delays the time I have to add more sealant.

Spare: If you're going long, a plug kit and spare tube are a good idea. I normally just carry a standard flat kit (i.e. tube, CO2, tire levers, tire boot, multi tool).


You're the first mention I've seen of this and I think it's important. In the "flats" punctures I've received out riding tubeless that let out more air than I wanted. I simply stopped, plugged the hole, jammed some air in it and kept riding. It might have cost me 30-seconds to a minute. And that's only if I felt like I needed optimum pressure to finish a training ride.

I don't even carry a tube with me when I'm racing on my TT bike. If the tire was so damaged that one of the plugs I had wouldn't fix it, then my race is over anyway. Honestly, if it ever happened when I was out training I have a hard time believing that without a pretty major repair (boot, tube, patch, etc) I wouldn't have to call someone to come get me.

Plugs are an absolute must with tubeless.

I just finally tossed out a rear Schwable One Pro that had 5k+ miles on it (The front is still going strong). Some of it gravel, some of it on the road. I probably plugged the rear tire 4 times. The plug just becomes part of the tire and you move on with your ride and never worry about it.

Thanks for the extra info - do you have a particular brand or size plug that you prefer?

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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I keep the this with me for racing

https://www.amazon.com/...s=gateway&sr=8-2

Just because it's small, light, and the heads on it make it easy for rapid repairs.

For training something a little less race focused.

I bring a few of these plugs. This box should last you a lifetime

https://www.amazon.com/...=8-1-spons&psc=1

I bought this little guy just because it happened to be on sale. Lets me carry a few plugs and came with the little tool to jam them in the hole. The tool itself comes with enough plugs to last a few seasons.

https://www.amazon.com/...s=gateway&sr=8-5
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Geek_fit] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks!

Edit: Also thanks to Tom A below for the added suggestion (don't want to overwhelm the thread with redundant replies)...

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Last edited by: gregk: Jul 29, 19 11:19
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
Geek_fit wrote:
gregk wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:

May I suggest you have a table of recommended sealant volumes by tire size.

Also guidelines on whether carrying a spare tube, plug kit or both is reasonable for flat repair


Sealant: It varies by sealant manufacturer, but 30-60ml (1 - 2 ounces) per tire is normal for average road tires (i.e. 23 - 32mm). Any any sealant will tell you how much to use in the instructions/package. I usually err on the high side because it delays the time I have to add more sealant.

Spare: If you're going long, a plug kit and spare tube are a good idea. I normally just carry a standard flat kit (i.e. tube, CO2, tire levers, tire boot, multi tool).


You're the first mention I've seen of this and I think it's important. In the "flats" punctures I've received out riding tubeless that let out more air than I wanted. I simply stopped, plugged the hole, jammed some air in it and kept riding. It might have cost me 30-seconds to a minute. And that's only if I felt like I needed optimum pressure to finish a training ride.

I don't even carry a tube with me when I'm racing on my TT bike. If the tire was so damaged that one of the plugs I had wouldn't fix it, then my race is over anyway. Honestly, if it ever happened when I was out training I have a hard time believing that without a pretty major repair (boot, tube, patch, etc) I wouldn't have to call someone to come get me.

Plugs are an absolute must with tubeless.

I just finally tossed out a rear Schwable One Pro that had 5k+ miles on it (The front is still going strong). Some of it gravel, some of it on the road. I probably plugged the rear tire 4 times. The plug just becomes part of the tire and you move on with your ride and never worry about it.


Thanks for the extra info - do you have a particular brand or size plug that you prefer?

I'm not the one you're asking...but, here's my suggestion:

https://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=6526327#p6526327

Basically, Genuine Innovations plug tool, used with either the GI "strips of bacon", or my preferred cotton butcher's cord solution ;-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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25mm wide tape for our Plus rims. Stan's or Hed tape.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [andy tetmeyer] [ In reply to ]
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My current set up is HED Vanquish 6s with GP5000 (23 front 25 rear) and they are an awesome combo. I had my shop set them up when the wheels came in, so I can't comment on mounting difficulty.

Formerly MTBSully
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sulliesbrew] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think you can get the gp 5000 tubeless in 23mm... you may have tubes in those wheels, or you are riding 25s and don't know it.
Last edited by: Cookiebuilder: Jul 29, 19 14:04
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Cookiebuilder] [ In reply to ]
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You are correct, I checked last night and I am on 25 front and 28 rear. And it is an awesome setup.

Formerly MTBSully
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hey all - just a heads up that we published a new front page article that continues our discussion of road/tri tubeless:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...d_Strategy_7365.html

This time I covered the ins and outs of sealant for tubeless... What type should you buy? How much is needed per tire? How do you install it? Can you mix different sealant brands? This and more geekery at the link above.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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I am still working my way through this thread so I apologize if someone has covered this...a friend just bought some Schwalbe tires (MTB) and they did NOT go on easy (Stans rims). I have some Specialized Fasttrak tires and Roval Control carbon rims that I struggled to mount. Neither one of us is inexperienced with mtb or road tires. I am only saying this to point out that (I don't think) tubeless mountain bike tires are mostly sorted out so it might be kind of hopeful to think that road tubeless is going to get significantly better for mounting.

Rich
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [andy tetmeyer] [ In reply to ]
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I have a brand new setup of V6 wheels and had BY FAR the easiest TLR setup I've ever had with this wheel and tire combo (Bontrager GR1).

My method after consulting with Andrew:
2 wraps of HED tape
Install tubes in tires overnight to set tape
Install HED TL valves
Install GR1 tires BY HAND (no tools! YES!!!), add Bontrager TLR sealant
No compressor needed to set front, tiny compressor shot to set rear. Zero loss of air. Incredible.


See you Saturday Andy. :)



Apex Cycling - Team Manager
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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rrutis wrote:
I am still working my way through this thread so I apologize if someone has covered this...a friend just bought some Schwalbe tires (MTB) and they did NOT go on easy (Stans rims). I have some Specialized Fasttrak tires and Roval Control carbon rims that I struggled to mount. Neither one of us is inexperienced with mtb or road tires. I am only saying this to point out that (I don't think) tubeless mountain bike tires are mostly sorted out so it might be kind of hopeful to think that road tubeless is going to get significantly better for mounting.

Rich
In my experience it's about technique. My road bike has Reynolds Strike TLR wheels and I read they're a bitch to get a tire on and if you get a flat on a ride you're screwed but in my experience with GP4000 tires it's not the case at all, and only a matter of technique (unhooking the bead on both sides and pushing it to the center of the rim). I put new tires on this weekend without needing tire levers. I've had similar experiences on my MTB when I set it up to ride it tubeless (and also replaced the rear tire from a Maxxis Ikon to Maxxis Aggressor) - it was really easy.

I'll set up my new Hed Jet 6 Plus wheels I received yesterday sometime this weekend... still waiting on my GP5000TL's to come in. BTW I was pleasantly surprised the HEDs came with rim tape (included, not yet applied).
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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rrutis wrote:
I am still working my way through this thread so I apologize if someone has covered this...a friend just bought some Schwalbe tires (MTB) and they did NOT go on easy (Stans rims). I have some Specialized Fasttrak tires and Roval Control carbon rims that I struggled to mount. Neither one of us is inexperienced with mtb or road tires. I am only saying this to point out that (I don't think) tubeless mountain bike tires are mostly sorted out so it might be kind of hopeful to think that road tubeless is going to get significantly better for mounting.

Rich

Hard to say what caused the struggle without having all of the info. It could be as simple as the mounting procedure, if you aren't making the adjustment that's necessary for all tubeless rims (reference the article I linked in my original post). I almost always find the initial mounting of the tire beads to be easier with MTB tubeless tires than road tubeless. The most recent tubeless MTB tires I've used were Maxxis, and they have mounted up pretty easily on more than one rim (and I'm not one of those people that thinks every tire mounts easy - I've had more than my fair share of crazy-difficult setups).

With road tubeless, we definitely aren't there yet in terms of easy mounting across all brands of tire and rim. I've heard quite a few reports that the Mavic UST wheels/tires are easy, but I haven't tried them yet. Same with Zipp - I think their recent stuff is supposed to be pretty dialed in.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cmscat50] [ In reply to ]
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cmscat50 wrote:
I have a brand new setup of V6 wheels and had BY FAR the easiest TLR setup I've ever had with this wheel and tire combo (Bontrager GR1).

My method after consulting with Andrew:
2 wraps of HED tape
Install tubes in tires overnight to set tape
Install HED TL valves
Install GR1 tires BY HAND (no tools! YES!!!), add Bontrager TLR sealant
No compressor needed to set front, tiny compressor shot to set rear. Zero loss of air. Incredible.


See you Saturday Andy. :)

If you're talking about DAMn, we'll be at County Ditch 13 flipping crepes and handing out the third leg cue cards. See you then.

Andy Tetmeyer (I work at HED)

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Gregk and Benv,
I have heard the GP4000 is ok to to install at least on Roval rims from a friend, which is ironic given that the old Gran Prix' (circa 1998) were some of the hardest tires to get on clincher rims.

I think I have decent technique getting tires on...the mechanics are pretty simple once you understand that the middle of the rim has the smallest diameter, plus beer helps;)

I am also curious to know i fany one has experience with how much the beads stretch after being mounted for a while, they're not supposed to but they do, at least on clinchers. Not much, but enough that out on the road you can usually change a tube without much effort, so hopefully that will happen with tubeless too.

Rich
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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What I think would be nice to have is a little guide on best practices when you get a flat whilst NOT racing. I'll leave a few questions that I would like expert users to answer.

Clearly, in a race setting where one just wants to get back riding asap, it may make sense to wait very little and just throw a plug in the tire (I think keeping a Dynaplug Racer at hand is the quickest way).

While training instead, how do we maximise the chances for the sealant to work? eg. is it better to stop, position the hole down to facilitate the flow of sealant, plug it with our finger (is this going to help?) ?

And, generally, after how long does one assume that the sealant is not going to be able to do its job?

Does it make sense to reinflate the tyre straight away, or better to ride a few more miles at the lower pressure (if rideable, of course), to give the sealant more time, and then inflate again?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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rrutis wrote:

I am also curious to know i fany one has experience with how much the beads stretch after being mounted for a while, they're not supposed to but they do, at least on clinchers. Not much, but enough that out on the road you can usually change a tube without much effort, so hopefully that will happen with tubeless too.

Rich

It seems to depend on the tire. Traditional non-tubeless clincher tires do seem to stretch out a bit over time. I don't have enough experience with enough road tubeless tires to make a blanket statement. I can tell you that the Hutchinson tires with carbon beads from 5+ years ago didn't stretch AT ALL and were a bear to install on everything I tried. I reviewed some American Classic wheels and actually had to leave the tires on when I sent the wheels back... they were Hutchinson Fusion 3's and I couldn't get them off (and put them on originally with considerable difficulty). I later learned that AM Classic didn't approve of using those tires due to the beads, but there were very few other options on the market at the time, and I didn't have them at my disposal.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [robeambro] [ In reply to ]
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robeambro wrote:
What I think would be nice to have is a little guide on best practices when you get a flat whilst NOT racing. I'll leave a few questions that I would like expert users to answer.

Clearly, in a race setting where one just wants to get back riding asap, it may make sense to wait very little and just throw a plug in the tire (I think keeping a Dynaplug Racer at hand is the quickest way).

While training instead, how do we maximise the chances for the sealant to work? eg. is it better to stop, position the hole down to facilitate the flow of sealant, plug it with our finger (is this going to help?) ?

And, generally, after how long does one assume that the sealant is not going to be able to do its job?

Does it make sense to reinflate the tyre straight away, or better to ride a few more miles at the lower pressure (if rideable, of course), to give the sealant more time, and then inflate again?


"While training instead, how do we maximise the chances for the sealant to work? eg. is it better to stop, position the hole down to facilitate the flow of sealant, plug it with our finger (is this going to help?)?"

-I've never had this really work. In my experience, it either seals or it doesn't, and shaking the wheel or positioning it in a special way doesn't do much. I've punctured and done as you suggest (stop riding, position the hole downward to catch more sealant), and it basically just keeps spitting, because the puncture was just too big. Or sometimes it seals while riding and you never have to stop. I think the best remedy is using a good sealant (see our in-depth test articles), and keeping your sealant levels topped off.

"And, generally, after how long does one assume that the sealant is not going to be able to do its job? "

-I don't understand the question. Can you rephrase? I assume that the sealant will do its job.

"Does it make sense to reinflate the tyre straight away, or better to ride a few more miles at the lower pressure (if rideable, of course), to give the sealant more time, and then inflate again?"

-Perfect world, the puncture seals while riding and you never stop. Mountain bikers are familiar with this. You hear a puncture, and then it stops leaking/hissing after a few wheel revolutions and you keep going. With road tubeless, the sealant has a harder time doing its job because of the higher pressures. So, if you start at 100psi, puncture, and then it seals at 70psi... I'd just keep riding (though a bit more slowly/carefully in the corners). You can try inflating again, but you might blow out the seal... causing it to leak back down to 70psi and seal again. I try to just finish the ride, and would then use a patch/plug kit at home.

The other thing I want to emphasize in general (you didn't ask this) - is that I think that this whole situation is going to get better as more wheels and frames work with wider tires. A 28mm tire on a Hed Vanquish rim will inflate to 31-32mm wide. Maybe you run your pressure in the low 60s. This is a much easier scenario for sealant to work compared to a 23mm tire at 100+psi. Because of all this, I think the best place for someone to start with tubeless (if they're wanting to try it) is for training, and likely on a road bike that'll have wider tires than your tri bike. I think it's no coincidence that the companies that are big on tubeless are also big on wide tires (i.e. ENVE).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Last edited by: gregk: Aug 2, 19 14:51
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Some interesting comments here...especially the anti TL stuff. Been running road tubeless for about two years and not a single flat. I ride some pretty crappy roads in Nor Cal as well. For those of us that do a lot of mountain biking it just seems natural and a no brainer transition. I started with Spesh 2Bliss rubber on my Roval CL 50 wheels but have switched to the new Conti 5K TL and they are awesome. Only real downside i have noticed is they seem to lose a bit of pressure over a few days vs other TL tires. I carry a Dynaplug but frankly have never had to use it. I run the size 28 Conti's on rims with 20.6mm internal and they measure out to over 30mm so can run pretty low pressures (mid 70's) so a great ride quality.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [TriMike] [ In reply to ]
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TriMike wrote:
Some interesting comments here...especially the anti TL stuff. Been running road tubeless for about two years and not a single flat. I ride some pretty crappy roads in Nor Cal as well. For those of us that do a lot of mountain biking it just seems natural and a no brainer transition.

Thanks for the comment. I think there's an important clarification to make, whether you support tubeless or traditional clincher tires. I have seen both sides make the argument of "I'm running X setup, and haven't had a flat in _____ time period, therefore my setup is good." While this certainly isn't a worthless data point, I hesitate to put too much emphasis on it. The reason is that the biggest driver of puncture resistance is the thickness/material/construction of the tire tread, casing, and any puncture resistant layers - not whether the tire has a tube or not. Tube pinch flats are another story, but they virtually disappear with proper inflation pressure and tire size.

The number of punctures experienced is definitely something to track over time, but we can't escape the randomness of the debris that we run over. The best chance at reducing punctures is to run a beefier tire. In other words - a Gatorskin with a thick tube will always puncture less than a tubeless Corsa Speed. They're different animals. If we control for this with two tires that are identical, but one has a tube and the other doesn't - things get more interesting... I just can't find any such data.

Note: I'm heading out for a week of backpacking, so I probably won't have access to this thread through the 11th. Dan will check in periodically in my absence.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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This is a pretty timely thread and I'll throw in a couple of opinions and ideas.
1. Tire pressure: I think some of the arguments against road tubeless come from thinking along the old paradigm about tire pressure. Yes, high pressure makes tubeless less effective, but with tubeless you don't need high pressure. To me 60 psi was sufficient when I threw a 28mm tire on my all-road bike's rear rim on a recent trip where I new I was going to stay on the road. If I had a 32mm tire (GP5000tl here I come) I would probably drop it to 45-50 for the road. Normally, I run a Schwalbe G-One Speed 2.0 on the back and I ride that just about anywhere, on or off-road. The only wheels that I still run tubes are my tri race wheels because they sit around most of the time.
2. Sealant: from the very beginning, I found a recipe to make my own and have never bought sealant from a store. When you buy the separate ingredients in bulk, it is very inexpensive. In two years of tubeless, I've had two flats that did not seal. One just required a tube and on I went (I patched the tire after the ride). The other was a sidewall cut that I patched and the seal on that tire/rim was so good, I pumped it up again tubeless with a hand pump and have been using it since. I'm in a very dry desert here, so summer requires more vigilance as the sealant starts to turn sludgy, but generally I just scrape it out with a food scraper, add it back to my pot of sealant, blend it up and then pour it back in.
3. Speed: riding big, fat tires on the road took some getting used to, but now I never worry about the road surface, either pavement or dirt. With a WTB Byway in front and a G-One Speed in back, I can ride anywhere that I want to go. It feels really different, but when I get back on 23-25mm tires, I hate it and can't wait to go back. I've also done a reasonable amount of testing and found that supple gravel/mtb tires (at least the ones I have bought) don't give up much if anything to my control tire, a GP4000SII in 25mm when climbing. On an extended steep climb that lasted circa 5 minutes, the control tire was 2-3 sec faster than the three other tires I tested (the 2.0 G-One Speed, an old {no tread in the center} Conti Raceking Protection, and a new Raceking Protection). The control wheel dropped nearly a pound compared to the others, so that difference was not all rolling resistance.

To me, tubeless has become a no-brainer, other than for tri use, but that is because my race wheels are old and narrow. If you maintain and ride a lot of different bikes then it does not make as much sense for tubeless either. If you only ride the road and you don't get flats, then again, why bother with tubeless? Big, fast rolling tubeless tires have changed how I think of cycling. It used to be road, or off-road with a different bike for each. Now it is just riding and I go where I want.

Chad
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