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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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For sidewall cuts, this is why I have some duct tape wrapped around my tire irons and a dollar bill on hand. Line the inner sidewall with duct tape, fold the bill and lay it over the duct tape, then insert the tube. Totally old school patch, but it will definitely get you home even with 80-90 psi.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for all the info. I read the winterizing/ offseason for tubeless article and it talked about the two ways (keep inflated and spins them, or take off tire and clean). Obviously the keep inflated seems easier. Are you also adding sealant in it to keep it sealed or just adding it once you want to ride again? Obviously depending on how long the sealant has been in there it may dry up.

https://www.strava.com/athletes/11645943 https://www.instagram.com/timeforicecream/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [DylanD] [ In reply to ]
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DylanD wrote:
Thanks for all the info. I read the winterizing/ offseason for tubeless article and it talked about the two ways (keep inflated and spins them, or take off tire and clean). Obviously the keep inflated seems easier. Are you also adding sealant in it to keep it sealed or just adding it once you want to ride again? Obviously depending on how long the sealant has been in there it may dry up.

I typically do not add more sealant during the winter while the wheels sit... mostly because of the extra work. I'll just add it again in the Spring, or whenever I'm going to use the wheels again. However - this also depends on the fit between the rim and tire, and if it'll reliably hold a seal without much sealant in there. For example, I have a set of ENVE Foundation wheels that have been holding air reliably with both Schwalbe Pro Ones and ENVE's own tires - and I'm pretty certain that most of the sealant has dried out by now. But I have a set of 650b DT Swiss GR1600s with WTB Byway tires that keep going flat very quickly. I used Caffelatex sealant for both.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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How quickly does the sealant dry out? I've never added sealant to my car tires so this concept is weird to me.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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BigBoyND wrote:
How quickly does the sealant dry out? I've never added sealant to my car tires so this concept is weird to me.


Car tire sealants are all glycol-based (either propylene glycol or ethylene glycol), and last many years. These are sometimes sold as bicycle sealants, but are intended for use inside inner tubes (such as the original Slime that you're probably familiar with). They may also be used with the old MTB tubeless standard called UST, which was designed to hold air without any sealant at all (similar to car tires) - but the tires had to be made thicker, stiffer, and heavier than the performance market was willing to put up with. Since then, most MTB tires are now called "Tubeless Ready", which represents a middle-ground between the old superlight clincher tires (made for use with inner tubes) and heavy UST-rated tires.

Most bicycle sealants these days are latex-based. They evaporate / dry out - and this is a big part of why they work better than the glycol sealants for sealing punctures. They work like a filler or glue, and dry in to place to form a "permanent" seal for punctures. They also help to glue the tire beads in place on the rim and create an air-tight seal, because the lightweight non-UST tire beads aren't as good at retaining air (though this is becoming less of an issue with some of the newest tires, as we've been writing about in recent articles on the home page). Finally, latex sealants help with air retention by coating the inside of the tire, so less air escapes through the porous tire casing (getting back to the weight issue... those heavier UST tires all had a thick butyl liner integrated into the tire casing for this exact reason). In other words, this latex-based, glue-like sealant is necessary to make all of the parts work together - if you want the weight to be as light as possible. There is also a newer Road UST standard, but I believe they require or recommend latex sealant to be used.

How often the latex sealant lasts depends primarily on the ambient humidity. If you live in the desert, you might be topping off your sealant every couple months. If you live in Florida or somewhere similarly humid, you might be able to get away with 6 months or longer (personally, I'd check at least every 6 months just to be safe). It also depends on how much sealant you install in the first place. If you're a weight weenie and only want to install the minimum amount necessary, it'll disappear faster than if you installed more sealant.

I wrote these articles that touch on the topic:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...e_Sealants_2765.html
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...d_Strategy_7365.html
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...018_Update_6999.html

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you, I appreciate the thorough response. I'll read the articles as well.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Picked up a set of HED vanquish RC4 pros and plan on converting to tubeless this spring. I am running them with tubes this winter in case of any flats while cold weather riding. The bead was pretty tight (GP5Ks) when I installed the tires and it took a small amount of soap to get them completely on the bead. Has anyone ran into a flat situation on the road when you need a tube? I was wondering how tough it would be to snap the bead back into place after throwing a tube in on the side of the road in cold weather with a CO2 container. Thanks for the insight!
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [SkipS] [ In reply to ]
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SkipS wrote:
Picked up a set of HED vanquish RC4 pros and plan on converting to tubeless this spring. I am running them with tubes this winter in case of any flats while cold weather riding. The bead was pretty tight (GP5Ks) when I installed the tires and it took a small amount of soap to get them completely on the bead. Has anyone ran into a flat situation on the road when you need a tube? I was wondering how tough it would be to snap the bead back into place after throwing a tube in on the side of the road in cold weather with a CO2 container. Thanks for the insight!

Are you asking about that wheel and tire combination specifically?

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Not tire / rim specific - just any personal experience using a tube by the side of the road with a set up that has a tight bead.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [SkipS] [ In reply to ]
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I have a ton of miles on the Vanquish running tubeless....over 15K easily on the road / gravel I'd guess.

I've had one time when I've had to install a tube and it's really no harder than a clincher tire. I had maybe 3-5 punctures that sealed without even knowing I had a puncture.

Fat Bike Worlds - Race Director
BRF-Apex - Team Manager
Insta: chris.s.apex
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [SkipS] [ In reply to ]
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SkipS wrote:
Not tire / rim specific - just any personal experience using a tube by the side of the road with a set up that has a tight bead.


Personally, I've had such experiences. Worst case, bead was 100% stuck and I had to call for a ride home, and cut the tire off. Best case, I was able to get the bead off with enough elbow grease and install a tube.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
Last edited by: gregk: Jan 12, 21 12:53
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [SkipS] [ In reply to ]
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I don't bring spare tubes on my 2 sets of tubeless wheels. I really doubt I can get the tire off. Always bring my phone and spare cash if necessary. So far a few punctures that sealed easily and 1 really bad one that didn't. I walked home 1 mile for that one.


SkipS wrote:
Not tire / rim specific - just any personal experience using a tube by the side of the road with a set up that has a tight bead.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [karlw2000] [ In reply to ]
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I’ve had a large hole in GP5kTL on Hed Jet+ rims. Much easier to get tyre off/on with tube on the roadside than in the initial installation. The sealant helped things slide around a bit.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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Appreciate the insight guys.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [scca_ita] [ In reply to ]
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scca_ita wrote:
On my P5-6, I use Enve 7.8 and run the Corsa Speeds Gen1 in a 25mm. The key is I am height LIMITED to 22mm. The newer Gen 2 Corsa Speeds are 24mm as is the Conti 5000 in a 25mm tire.

Do you have any dimension info on the new Schwalbe Tires? I have a new set of ENVE coming this week and want to set them up tubeless.

This is way overdue, but why would you be limited in height to 22mm? I have a P5 with Enve 7.8 with 25mm GP5K and they clear just fine. Previously I had 25mm GP4k which are larger and those fit fine, too. Where do you have tire clearance limitations? The fork and magura cover look to have enough room for bigger tires, and the rear horizontal dropouts have set screws that allow for further increase in clearance to the frame and rear brake.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Bike is now sold... but I had issues with tire rubbing on top of the fork. Rear fit fine after adjusting the set screws
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Heads-up, Slowtwitchers! DT Swiss is giving away a free set of (tubeless-compatible) ARC wheels. Check out the YouTube video linked at the end of this article for details on how to enter:


https://www.slowtwitch.com/...ny_Faster__7875.html

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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How can I tell if the factory rim tape on my wheels can be used in a tubeless setup? The wheels are Alex Boondocks 7Ds that came on a 2020 Aspero. The only information that I can find online from Alex Rims says that the rims feature a "tubeless ready design." I get it that the rims are tubeless ready, but what about the rim tape? I've asked Alex Rims, but I haven't heard back yet.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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What does the tape look like?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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Its $14 a roll for 2 wheels, probably the cheapest part of the conversion/install.

Just replace and then you are sure.

"...the street finds its own uses for things"
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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jimatbeyond wrote:
What does the tape look like?

Answered my own question with a bit of investigation. It's a non-adhesive nylon wrap. I've got tubeless tape that I'll throw on them.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [AutomaticJack] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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Sparks wrote:
How can I tell if the factory rim tape on my wheels can be used in a tubeless setup? The wheels are Alex Boondocks 7Ds that came on a 2020 Aspero. The only information that I can find online from Alex Rims says that the rims feature a "tubeless ready design." I get it that the rims are tubeless ready, but what about the rim tape? I've asked Alex Rims, but I haven't heard back yet.

Tubeless tapes tend to look very similar to each other - they run the full width of the rim (inside), and have a slick backside. They're adhesive, and create an airtight seal. In contrast, most tube-type tapes are not air-tight. They may be made of cloth (i.e. Velox), or can often be a stretchy but non-adhesive nylon or plastic.

Best way to find out is to ask Alex rims, as you've done. I'm not familiar with that particular rim, nor their tape. It's worth double checking, because it's not entirely uncommon for a "tubeless-ready" rim to ship with tube-type tape (Vision does this, for example, and sells the tubeless conversion kit separately). Personally, I think that all tape manufacturers need to start printing on the tape itself whether it is tubeless or tube-type (or perhaps just stop making non-tubeless tape altogether... because tubeless-ready tape works equally well with inner tubes).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
Sparks wrote:
How can I tell if the factory rim tape on my wheels can be used in a tubeless setup? The wheels are Alex Boondocks 7Ds that came on a 2020 Aspero. The only information that I can find online from Alex Rims says that the rims feature a "tubeless ready design." I get it that the rims are tubeless ready, but what about the rim tape? I've asked Alex Rims, but I haven't heard back yet.


Tubeless tapes tend to look very similar to each other - they run the full width of the rim (inside), and have a slick backside. They're adhesive, and create an airtight seal. In contrast, most tube-type tapes are not air-tight. They may be made of cloth (i.e. Velox), or can often be a stretchy but non-adhesive nylon or plastic.

Best way to find out is to ask Alex rims, as you've done. I'm not familiar with that particular rim, nor their tape. It's worth double checking, because it's not entirely uncommon for a "tubeless-ready" rim to ship with tube-type tape (Vision does this, for example, and sells the tubeless conversion kit separately). Personally, I think that all tape manufacturers need to start printing on the tape itself whether it is tubeless or tube-type (or perhaps just stop making non-tubeless tape altogether... because tubeless-ready tape works equally well with inner tubes).

Thanks, Greg. Before you responded, I poked, pulled, and prodded the rim tape on my wheels and figured out that it was non-adhesive nylon tape. I'll put new tape on this weekend.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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To the thread in general...

It looks like sealant vendors have had a couple of years to improve their formulations. And, it's time to renew the stuff on my road bike for the upcoming riding season.

So, I'm looking for current sealant recommendations. Is there a general consensus now as to which is "best" for a road tire/rim? Any particular products to avoid? Anybody really happy with a particular sealant? LBS has recommended Orange, but I understand that they have a couple of formulations, and some posters here apparently had problems with one of the older Orange products.

FWIW, I'm running Mavic Yksion Pro UST tires on their Ksyrium Elite UST rims. I'm more concerned with sealant longevity than puncture performance.

Thanks for your help.


"I have sworn an oath of solitude until the pestilence is purged from these lands."
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