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ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019
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Nice interview, thanks.
2 things leave me a bit puzzled:

1)
Why does Kienle compare TL with clincher/butyl. This is always done to point out the advantages of TL.
Why does he not compare TL with clincher/latex. I think that that is the more relevant comparison.

2)
To me and to many others, the 4% is a huge improvement compared to any shoe. Why does Kienle not consider it resp. does not talk about it.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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I'm more confused by an interview with a super-savvy athlete who spent time in the tunnel and track doesn't discuss his swanky new Speedbar custom setup.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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In the article it says hes on profile bars?
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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They are just standard run if the mill profile bars and extensions.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
They are just standard run if the mill profile bars and extensions.

In the article pictures, yes. They were PD extensions. But in Frankfurt (and Challenge Heilbronn before that, IIRC) he was racing Speedbars:



ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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Ah sorry my bad I hadn't picked that one up.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
Why does Kienle compare TL with clincher/butyl. This is always done to point out the advantages of TL.
Why does he not compare TL with clincher/latex. I think that that is the more relevant comparison.

This stuck out to me as well. Has he been running butyl tubes all these years?

Matt
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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longtrousers wrote:
Nice interview, thanks. 2 things leave me a bit puzzled:

1) Why does Kienle compare TL with clincher/butyl. This is always done to point out the advantages of TL.
Why does he not compare TL with clincher/latex. I think that that is the more relevant comparison.

2) To me and to many others, the 4% is a huge improvement compared to any shoe. Why does Kienle not consider it resp. does not talk about it.

as to butyl/latex, i don't know. i'll give you one possible explanation, but i'm just guessing wildly. it seemed to me that sealant functionality was an imperative for him, that regardless of a tire's speed, or supposed speed, if a tire didn't seal upon "presentation" of a hole to the sealant, that it wasn't worth consideration. he might've viewed sealant in a latex tube as too poor a solution, because the sealing process takes too long; too much air is lost. but i don't think latex tubes seal any worse than butyl tubes. i don't believe conti makes latex tubes, it makes light race butyl tubes, perhaps his view of latex tubes is skewed by conti thinking. i don't know. latex works nice in the 4000SII. i think he's on tubeless because they're as fast as anything + latex; they're only going to get faster; and because they self-seal and do so more quickly than sealant in a tube.

i'm not convinced the 4% is a huge improvement over any shoe. in fact, i'm convinced otherwise. it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
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lacticturkey wrote:
In the article it says hes on profile bars?

the article contains images, all from ingo kutsche, of sebastian from 2 races this year. in between the first and the second he changed to speedbar. you can see it in some of the images from the interview. i didn't catch it. i didn't ask him about aerobars, so he didn't answer about aerobars. my mistake.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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re: his saddle I was fascinated he knew approx how many shifts he was making per minute (10 per vs 1 every 5 min). I have never known 1 per 5 min type comfort but can only imagine the advantage that would give.

Sometimes these top 1%'ers say things almost in passing that give you a glimpse into how far down the rabbit hole they go. They think of everything. Amazing.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [maninthearena] [ In reply to ]
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re: his saddle I was fascinated he knew approx how many shifts he was making per minute (10 per vs 1 every 5 min).//

I dubbed that dynamic the typewriter years ago. Click, click, click, return(you have to be over 55 to remember these) And yes, it is amazing how many pros do not recognize this, or they do and do nothing about it. Just watch closely when they show top triathletes or cyclists doing TT's, it is about 1/2 that still ride this way.. And as Keinle finally figured out, it is either a saddle change, or fit issue, but easily fixable if you focus on it..
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]
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Did anyone else notice he raced with his watch on the wrist? Isnt this considered "slow"? I believe he didnt do this in the past, I dont see any watch on him in Kona bike images so I guess something must have changed there.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Rachela] [ In reply to ]
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Rachela wrote:
Did anyone else notice he raced with his watch on the wrist? Isnt this considered "slow"? I believe he didnt do this in the past, I dont see any watch on him in Kona bike images so I guess something must have changed there.
Likely to be connected that after few years not using power he has a powermeter again.

http://www.pb3coaching.com
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.

Then it's just a guess how he views it. Might just mean his NB contract was signed pre-4%. I've never raced in a shoe that feels as fast as the 4%, and many others seem to feel the same way. Long efforts below 7min pace feel far easier. In my experience 6:20/min feels like 6:40/min in any of my other shoes. Would have been interesting to hear what Kienle thinks or whether he has tried them.

A few comments on the article:
1. Didn't Lionel recently switch to Speedplay, not Shimano?
2. The Scott Plasma doesn't use an Aeria Ultimate bar. It's a proprietary system for the Plasma and shares some of the old Aeria hardware, which is visible in the closeup picture of Kienle's cockpit (pre-Speedbar).
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
as to butyl/latex, i don't know. i'll give you one possible explanation, but i'm just guessing wildly. it seemed to me that sealant functionality was an imperative for him, that regardless of a tire's speed, or supposed speed, if a tire didn't seal upon "presentation" of a hole to the sealant, that it wasn't worth consideration. he might've viewed sealant in a latex tube as too poor a solution, because the sealing process takes too long; too much air is lost. but i don't think latex tubes seal any worse than butyl tubes. i don't believe conti makes latex tubes, it makes light race butyl tubes, perhaps his view of latex tubes is skewed by conti thinking. i don't know. latex works nice in the 4000SII. i think he's on tubeless because they're as fast as anything + latex; they're only going to get faster; and because they self-seal and do so more quickly than sealant in a tube.

i'm not convinced the 4% is a huge improvement over any shoe. in fact, i'm convinced otherwise. it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.

TL - COULD be faster but WILL BE more puncture prone. His article literally points this out. He and Lange both flatted (yes, his sealed 3 bars down) but they both flatted in the pursuit of the lowest CRR possible.

4% - Kienle was in a New Balance prototype at Frankfurt that looks to be new foam and if I was a betting man (I'm not), probably has a carbon plate.



Slowman - loved the article because it gave great insight but bias is bias - to me it seemed to show here. Maybe I'm crazy.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i'm not convinced the 4% is a huge improvement over any shoe. in fact, i'm convinced otherwise. it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.

I'm sure you have already detailed your reasoning behind this previously in some thread or article so sorry to ask but can you please link that or send to me? I like numbers and that NYT article was quite convincing for me.

808 > NYC > PDX
2020 Races?: Nope.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i'm not convinced the 4% is a huge improvement over any shoe. in fact, i'm convinced otherwise. it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.

I'm sure you have already detailed your reasoning behind this previously in some thread or article so sorry to ask but can you please link that or send to me? I like numbers and that NYT article was quite convincing for me.

Seems like a number of people on this thread (not you) are either experts or have chosen to impugn my integrity, so I’m out. Ask them.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [hadukla] [ In reply to ]
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hadukla wrote:
Slowman wrote:
i'm not convinced the 4% is a huge improvement over any shoe. in fact, i'm convinced otherwise. it appears kienle views it as i do, tho i didn't ask him.


I'm sure you have already detailed your reasoning behind this previously in some thread or article so sorry to ask but can you please link that or send to me? I like numbers and that NYT article was quite convincing for me.

Here is Dan's write up on the Carbon X:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...e_Carbon_X_7325.html
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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One of the best articles in a long time.
I, for one, actually look for bias in your articles and saw none in this one. 😜
While, as an old age grouper, don’t need what SK does, it is great to hear his logic and thoughts.

Team Zoot So Cal
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [BrentwoodTriGuy] [ In reply to ]
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BrentwoodTriGuy wrote:

4% - Kienle was in a New Balance prototype at Frankfurt that looks to be new foam and if I was a betting man (I'm not), probably has a carbon plate.


everyone's playing catch-up..

https://www.podiumrunner.com/...-racing-shoes_177820
Jared Ward is perturbed by having to race against better shoes and is working with Saucony to build something.

just published, another study on the 4% which concludes about 2.7% improvement in efficiency,
https://www.tandfonline.com/...2640414.2019.1633837
"Use of the VP shoe resulted in improved running economy when compared with the AB (Adidas Boost) and ZS (Zoom Streak) at 4.44 m/s. The benefits in metabolic cost from the VP shoes is enough to improve performance times in a meaningful way. These differences are partly explained by alterations in running technique that seem to be due to shoe differences. "
Subjects of this study were all sub-32min 10k runners.

I'm a unabashed fan of Seb's - he's thoughtful, cheerful and doesn't whine. Thank you for the interview, enjoyed it..
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [doug in co] [ In reply to ]
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doug in co wrote:
Subjects of this study were all sub-32min 10k runners.

I think this plays a meaningful part in being skeptical of the Vaporfly's benefits at slower speeds. I can attest (n=1) that once I'm running slower than 7:00/mi, the shoe doesn't feel as good and I'm personally skeptical its improving my performance. In fact, sometimes I worry its hurting my performance. But once I'm running faster, its amazing and its better than any shoe on the market.

But when we're talking about Sebi and pros running 2:50 and lower marathons... its no-brainer effective.
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
lacticturkey wrote:
In the article it says hes on profile bars?


the article contains images, all from ingo kutsche, of sebastian from 2 races this year. in between the first and the second he changed to speedbar. you can see it in some of the images from the interview. i didn't catch it. i didn't ask him about aerobars, so he didn't answer about aerobars. my mistake.


the article could be edited (PD pics removed) or at least a caption so the error is apparent - there have been a disproportionate number of PD articles recently.

___________________________________
milesthedog on strava
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
there have been a disproportionate number of PD articles recently.

as other companies catch up to PD's aerobar designs, they'll get the coverage they earn (the most recent 7 aerobar reviews have been vision metron TFA, zipp vuka aero, culprit covert op, speedbar, look aergo, tririg alpha one, and cervelo's built-in aerobars).

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you Dan for being open to dialectical exchanges:

Did PD earn the recent coverage (two photos, one close-up) in the Seb interview, the subject of this thread? I ‘think’ I can understand the rationale behind your high coverage of PD, but the Seb piece seemed to cross a line: forcing in coverage when the athlete actively chose to no longer use that product... in an article specifically about that athlete’s choice in equipment.

Is it OK to ask these critical questions?

___________________________________
milesthedog on strava
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Re: ST Kienle interview Jul 22 2019 [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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FYI to all the Kienle fans: He is/was in Nice/France for recon ride and to see if he will compete in the 70.3 Worlds. I hope he will. Frodo will not be racing, so I would at like to see Kienle there...
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