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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [dalava] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, and it required a LOT of patience with how difficult it was to get on. Both times. I had to change out the tire after a few hundred miles because of poor quality. Had threads coming off the sidewall around the bead area. Hope I never have to change it again.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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I asked Zipp specifically about the gp5000TL on the 303-S since Enve shows that as non-approved on their hookless list. I asked, literally, if I could trust my life to Zipp's generic statement that any current tubeless tire could be used when Enve tested the GP and said it should not be used on their hookless wheels. Such an awesome company, Zipp's email in response gave me a canned reply merely repeating the stuff from their marketing "Current tubeless and tubeless ready tires are compatible with the Zipp 303 S Series wheels"

I will buy a tire from Enve's approved list because I won't trust Zipp if they haven't done the testing and won't answer a direct question about safety.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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seeyouincourt wrote:
I asked Zipp specifically about the gp5000TL on the 303-S since Enve shows that as non-approved on their hookless list. I asked, literally, if I could trust my life to Zipp's generic statement that any current tubeless tire could be used when Enve tested the GP and said it should not be used on their hookless wheels. Such an awesome company, Zipp's email in response gave me a canned reply merely repeating the stuff from their marketing "Current tubeless and tubeless ready tires are compatible with the Zipp 303 S Series wheels"

I will buy a tire from Enve's approved list because I won't trust Zipp if they haven't done the testing and won't answer a direct question about safety.



Yeah, I'm also not going to answer the question "could I trust my life your product" to a guy with the handle "seeyouincourt." :)
Last edited by: trail: May 11, 20 16:02
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
seeyouincourt wrote:
I asked Zipp specifically about the gp5000TL on the 303-S since Enve shows that as non-approved on their hookless list. I asked, literally, if I could trust my life to Zipp's generic statement that any current tubeless tire could be used when Enve tested the GP and said it should not be used on their hookless wheels. Such an awesome company, Zipp's email in response gave me a canned reply merely repeating the stuff from their marketing "Current tubeless and tubeless ready tires are compatible with the Zipp 303 S Series wheels"

I will buy a tire from Enve's approved list because I won't trust Zipp if they haven't done the testing and won't answer a direct question about safety.



Yeah, I'm also not going to answer the question "could I trust my life your product" to a guy with the handle "seeyouincourt." :)

LMAO!
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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seeyouincourt wrote:
I asked Zipp specifically about the gp5000TL on the 303-S since Enve shows that as non-approved on their hookless list. I asked, literally, if I could trust my life to Zipp's generic statement that any current tubeless tire could be used when Enve tested the GP and said it should not be used on their hookless wheels. Such an awesome company, Zipp's email in response gave me a canned reply merely repeating the stuff from their marketing "Current tubeless and tubeless ready tires are compatible with the Zipp 303 S Series wheels"

I will buy a tire from Enve's approved list because I won't trust Zipp if they haven't done the testing and won't answer a direct question about safety.

Just get a HED Eroica LT (or whatever HED calls that wheel now) and call it good.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [trail] [ In reply to ]
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But I'm super friendly.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Mudge] [ In reply to ]
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In a follow up, Zipp said I could use the Tangente RT28 and it would be "fantastic." So they tested their own tires?

Doesn't seem like it is too much to ask if a company did any specific testing with the top brand tires because Enve seems to have done the testing and will flat out say tires X, Y, Z, are approved and tires A, B, C, are not (or we don't know, etc.). I could not get a straight answer. I don't know why Zipp couldn't just say they didn't do the testing, or they did some testing but do not want to disclose results, or whatever. Throwing marketing language back to you, verbatim, is not helpful.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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seeyouincourt wrote:
In a follow up, Zipp said I could use the Tangente RT28 and it would be "fantastic." So they tested their own tires?

Doesn't seem like it is too much to ask if a company did any specific testing with the top brand tires because Enve seems to have done the testing and will flat out say tires X, Y, Z, are approved and tires A, B, C, are not (or we don't know, etc.). I could not get a straight answer. I don't know why Zipp couldn't just say they didn't do the testing, or they did some testing but do not want to disclose results, or whatever. Throwing marketing language back to you, verbatim, is not helpful.

Well...ENVE was sort of "forced" into creating that list because they produce rims with a "sharp" edge at the bead interface that doesn't play nice with some common clincher tires.

I guess I would interpret their answer more as "Yeah...we don't do that. Our bead edges are well radiused, so we don't NEED to test with every tire to make sure the interface is safe." :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Not quite. A year ago I witnessed one of the leading TL tires blow off the rim--after we'd been stopped for 5 minutes--because of the bead. That company took the input and re-designed the tire as a result. You should listen to the latest VN tech podcast with Ken Avery (it wasn't one of his).
Last edited by: Carl Spackler: May 13, 20 16:01
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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To be fair, if that's the podcast I think it is, it gives me a lot of faith in continental, and many questions about enve and why their wheels arent compatible
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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It probably isn’t the pod you think it is.

How do you know all Conti sizes are ok on all hookless rims? A wheel manufacturer doesn’t make the bead, the tire company does. And only the GP5 28mm is listed as incompatible, btw.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Is that the May 11 episode?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [seeyouincourt] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, dropped on Monday.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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This is sort of a random question. I installed GP 5000s yesterday afternoon on Roval CLX 64s. The tire looks to be seated perfectly straight & round. It has held pressure for nearly a full day.

When I inflated it. There was literally no popping sound. And if I let all the air out, the tire let’s go from the rim hook in places.

Should I be worried? My LBS checked them & said they’re good to go. Weirdly, Turbo Cottons with latex do pop like tubeless rims typically do.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [HLS2k6] [ In reply to ]
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Are your GP5000 tires clincher or tubeless?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [jimatbeyond] [ In reply to ]
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TLs. Sorry, should’ve made that clear. Holy smokes were they tight, too.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [HLS2k6] [ In reply to ]
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HLS2k6 wrote:
TLs. Sorry, should’ve made that clear. Holy smokes were they tight, too.

Tough to diagnose over the Web, but if they're TL's and they were pumped up to decent pressure (~100PSI for initial seating before backing down to whatever you want), and they don't leak, I'd think you should be fine.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
HLS2k6 wrote:
TLs. Sorry, should’ve made that clear. Holy smokes were they tight, too.

Tough to diagnose over the Web, but if they're TL's and they were pumped up to decent pressure (~100PSI for initial seating before backing down to whatever you want), and they don't leak, I'd think you should be fine.

Thanks for the reply. I went to 110 before backing them down.

That’s my instinct too. The bead is perfectly even & seated to my eye. It just failed to pop & let’s go when I deflate to zero. I’ll ride em. Thanks!
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [HLS2k6] [ In reply to ]
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HLS2k6 wrote:
This is sort of a random question. I installed GP 5000s yesterday afternoon on Roval CLX 64s. The tire looks to be seated perfectly straight & round. It has held pressure for nearly a full day.

When I inflated it. There was literally no popping sound. And if I let all the air out, the tire let’s go from the rim hook in places.

Should I be worried? My LBS checked them & said they’re good to go. Weirdly, Turbo Cottons with latex do pop like tubeless rims typically do.

You don't *always* get an audible popping sound. It depends on the inner shape of the rim, the diameter of the tire and wheel (i.e. how tight the fit is), the bead materials, etc. Some wheels tend to be really loud, like ENVE. I've had others be virtually silent. The key is just making sure that the tire beads are up on the bead shelf. Usually best done with visual inspection around the sides of the wheel/tire, and also spinning the wheel/tire. If it looks lumpy or weird, it's not seated well.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure what brand of sealant was used when the tires were installed last year, but they've been sitting all winter and about to take them off and clean them and need to buy some sealant. Orange Seal Endurance is what I'm seeing that I can order, will this work or do you have a better suggestion/option?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [tri3ba] [ In reply to ]
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tri3ba wrote:
Not sure what brand of sealant was used when the tires were installed last year, but they've been sitting all winter and about to take them off and clean them and need to buy some sealant. Orange Seal Endurance is what I'm seeing that I can order, will this work or do you have a better suggestion/option?

If you're not sure what sealant was in the tires before, you'll want to remove them from the wheels and do a very thorough cleaning for sure.

Orange Seal has worked fine for me, but it's been 5+ years since I've used it. The general consensus seems to be that it seals pretty well, but that it dries out faster than most other brands. I believe their Endurance formula is supposed to last a bit longer, but I'd have to think that it probably doesn't seal as well as the normal stuff (otherwise you'd think that they'd remove the original formula from their product line).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tires. HED alloy rims just work [ In reply to ]
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My expierences with good quality alloy training wheels and tires.

in 2016 I baught American classic 420 top of the line new tubeless rims
and well respected Schwalbe pro ones 700x 25. I had to use prestretch, heat and use 3 hands
to install these and when I got a flat 250 miles later it was impossible to get tire off.
American classic to cover thier ass on new tubeless risk built wheels with a
lock ridge that bit onto inside bead of tire approx 2.5 mm inside each side. American classic
had soon quit answering phone and went out of business . in 2018 I baught a set of Rolfe 32 mm
deep with ISM tires pre installed and rode those for 1400 trouble free miles
when i got a flat. I then installed a schwalbe on the Rolfe and it was a tough mount which
leaves me the concern of what happens on a long exhausted ride with tired hands and
no shop tools. I have since made the Rolfes our family spare wheels with conti 4000s and tubes
that readily mount on them . I cant find it with a stanley tape but it seems the Rolfes and American
classics are bit larger in diameter. For Christmas this year Santa and local bike shop got me a set of
head belgium Plus built on a quiet dura ace hub and they are a great up grade. I have mounted
schwalbe pro 28mm on these and had to install a tube in the field to get home with no more trouble than
tubey 4000 days. . I have also installed GP5000tubeless 25mm and Hutchinson Sector 28 on these rims with
just 2 hands. The Hutchinson sector is perhaps 1/2% slower but it holds air and holds up so extremely well
leading me to keep 1 on my front rim. I don t feel the 5000 is any faster than 28mm schwalbe pro one
but both are well mountable on HED alloy rims and have given me a lot of trouble free miles.
My wife now has a set of HED black Ardennes with schwalbe pro 30mm that she says ride fantastic
and were easy to mount.
My other hard education has been use 2 layers of narrow black swiss rim tape and be very picky installing
rim tape and valve stems . Personally I believe stans ( such an honest bullshit name like Mcdonalds )
is cut rate quality but extremely well marketed stuff. I ve had several annoying problems with
Stans valve stems but I havent found the resounding replacement yet . The tape of choice is DT swis.

.
..
.
Gonna need 3 glow sticks.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Not quite. A year ago I witnessed one of the leading TL tires blow off the rim--after we'd been stopped for 5 minutes--because of the bead. That company took the input and re-designed the tire as a result. You should listen to the latest VN tech podcast with Ken Avery (it wasn't one of his).
Yikes. I’ve heard some other stories of people running unconfirmed tire/wheel combos, hearing a sudden rush of air, and waking up in the ER.

Just another road tubeless data point here. I’ve been running Bontrager R3 and AW2 (28 and 32mm) tires on the stock Trek Checkpoint wheels for two years now with Bontrager sealant. I’m 170lbs and inflate to 70psi. I used to get 6-10 flats per year on standard clincher tires with tubes. So far in about 10000 miles on paved roads I’ve had two instances where I saw sealant come out of the tubeless tire during a ride and both times it sealed quickly and I just kept on riding. Both times I just left the plug of sealant in the small hole where it stayed until the tire was worn out enough to be retired. I’ve been up and down curbs and sidewalks, through grass, gravel, and dirt, and through rain and mud. I’ve not had any pinch flats or burps of air.

I still have a road bike and a TT bike with 23-25mm clincher wheels and tubes and it feels like riding on the rims only compared to the tubeless setup. I have not tried any other brand of tire on the tubeless wheels but at some point I would like to use something faster. The R3 and AW2 seem to last about 4000 miles but don’t seem particularly fast.

Anyway if I didn’t have several bikes I rotate between I would use tubeless on all of them but you end up having to keep the sealant fresh. For peace of mind I do run sealant in the tubes of my road bike but I have yet to experience a flat so I don’t know if they will seal up like the TL tires do.

Thanks to Greg K for starting the thread as it has been very informative.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Just a quick heads-up, ETRTO announced updates for 2020 - including getting more up-to-speed on road/gravel tubeless.

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...d_Hookless_7692.html

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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An update on my exploits about from 10 pages ago.

Mavic Cosmic UST rims with GP5000TL:
Front wheel sealed at the first attempt, though the tyre was a real pain to get on.
Rear wheel never sealed. Despite 3 valves, 3 different rim tapes and me cleaning/filing/sanding every blemish I could find on the rim interior (there were several). And the tyre was an utter nightmare to get on/off each time; no chance of a timely repair in a race situation.

Gave up, and switched to using the same tyres on...

Hed Jet+ rims with GP5000TL:

Tyres easy to fit (no levers required - could fit a tube at the roadside if I had to)
One wrap of the HED rim tape. Inflate with tube overnight to bed the tape in.
Tube out, sealant in and inflate with my ghetto tubeless inflator to seat the beads
Pump up to 80psi, give each wheel a good shake to distribute the sealant, and that was it.
Done. First time on each wheel. Zero hassle. Happy days :-)
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