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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [HLS2k6] [ In reply to ]
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HLS2k6 wrote:
This is sort of a random question. I installed GP 5000s yesterday afternoon on Roval CLX 64s. The tire looks to be seated perfectly straight & round. It has held pressure for nearly a full day.

When I inflated it. There was literally no popping sound. And if I let all the air out, the tire let’s go from the rim hook in places.

Should I be worried? My LBS checked them & said they’re good to go. Weirdly, Turbo Cottons with latex do pop like tubeless rims typically do.

I have the GP5000 TL on Roval CL50s. I think the CL50s are just the shallower version of CLX64s. When I inflate the tires, I do occasionally hear popping sound. If I let most of the air out, the tire bead does not stay seated, just like yours. Initially, I was quite concerned about this because my other tubeless experience is wider gravel/CX tires and those tires (Schwalbe X-1 and G-1) stay seated even if I let ALL the air out. I read somewhere that the GP5000 TL not staying seated with the CL50s when it's deflated is "normal".
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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marting wrote:
Hed Jet+ rims with GP5000TL:

Tyres easy to fit (no levers required - could fit a tube at the roadside if I had to)
One wrap of the HED rim tape. Inflate with tube overnight to bed the tape in.
Tube out, sealant in and inflate with my ghetto tubeless inflator to seat the beads
Pump up to 80psi, give each wheel a good shake to distribute the sealant, and that was it.
Done. First time on each wheel. Zero hassle. Happy days :-)

Interesting. Just spend the weekend mounting GP5k TL on HED Jet Black 6. They were a real pain in the ass to get the tires mounted. Had to let the tires sit out in the sun to heat up and had to use a lever and tire jack to get them on. I do have 2 wraps of HED rim tape compared to your 1.

I never did get the popping/seating sound when I pumped the tires up and I'm concerned about exceeding the 90 psi max on the wheels. Everything visually checks out though.

blog
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
marting wrote:

Hed Jet+ rims with GP5000TL:

Tyres easy to fit (no levers required - could fit a tube at the roadside if I had to)
One wrap of the HED rim tape. Inflate with tube overnight to bed the tape in.
Tube out, sealant in and inflate with my ghetto tubeless inflator to seat the beads
Pump up to 80psi, give each wheel a good shake to distribute the sealant, and that was it.
Done. First time on each wheel. Zero hassle. Happy days :-)


Interesting. Just spend the weekend mounting GP5k TL on HED Jet Black 6. They were a real pain in the ass to get the tires mounted. Had to let the tires sit out in the sun to heat up and had to use a lever and tire jack to get them on. I do have 2 wraps of HED rim tape compared to your 1.

I never did get the popping/seating sound when I pumped the tires up and I'm concerned about exceeding the 90 psi max on the wheels. Everything visually checks out though.

You won't *always* hear popping when the tire seats. It'll depend on the wheel/tire combo, type/amount of tape, bead lubricant (if used), etc. The main thing is a visual check of the tire - you're looking for lumps, or if there is any inconsistency with the sidewall height. And of course - checking how well it holds air over time.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
I never did get the popping/seating sound when I pumped the tires up and I'm concerned about exceeding the 90 psi max on the wheels. Everything visually checks out though.

My sample size seating tubeless tires on aluminum rims is n=2 while on carbon rims probably n=100, but my n=2 experience is with a pair of HED H3+ wheels, both of which seated ridiculously easy and silently. If the tire checks out visually and holds air, then you're fine.

Amateur recreational hobbyist cyclist
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [refthimos] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone have issues with Panaracer Gravelkings weeping through the sidewalls? I have had them setup tubeless on my cross bike for about 4 months and the rear which is slightly older than the front was leaking down significantly even during ride. I have added sealant twice and each time the side walls weep for a few days. I thought at first the pressure might be too high (40 psi) but realized that I have not problems with the front at essentially the same pressure. Its almost like back in the days of ghetto tubeless it took a long time for a normal tire to finally seal up.

Rich
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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rrutis wrote:
Anyone have issues with Panaracer Gravelkings weeping through the sidewalls? I have had them setup tubeless on my cross bike for about 4 months and the rear which is slightly older than the front was leaking down significantly even during ride. I have added sealant twice and each time the side walls weep for a few days. I thought at first the pressure might be too high (40 psi) but realized that I have not problems with the front at essentially the same pressure. Its almost like back in the days of ghetto tubeless it took a long time for a normal tire to finally seal up.

Rich

What sealant are you using? I've used Stan's and Orange Seal and found Orange Seal to be much better at stopping weeping through the sidewall.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [PVD04] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure my Giant PA2 wheelset is tubeless ready. I have moved these over to cyclocross/gravel duty since I no longer use them on road or TT bikes.

If I set them up tubeless, how hard are more "cross" or "gravel" tubeless tires to get on the wheel in a "tragic" situation needing a tube versus a clincher? I can't imagine getting a road race tubeless tire off and on again for a tube on the road. But I would think big old cross or gravel tires should be easier. I can mount most clincher road tires with my fingers. I can easily mount clincher cross tires with my fingers.

Is that the case? Bigger the tire width for tubeless, easier to deal with a tube in a situation?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [burnthesheep] [ In reply to ]
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burnthesheep wrote:
Pretty sure my Giant PA2 wheelset is tubeless ready. I have moved these over to cyclocross/gravel duty since I no longer use them on road or TT bikes.

If I set them up tubeless, how hard are more "cross" or "gravel" tubeless tires to get on the wheel in a "tragic" situation needing a tube versus a clincher? I can't imagine getting a road race tubeless tire off and on again for a tube on the road. But I would think big old cross or gravel tires should be easier. I can mount most clincher road tires with my fingers. I can easily mount clincher cross tires with my fingers.

Is that the case? Bigger the tire width for tubeless, easier to deal with a tube in a situation?

In my experience - in general - yes. Larger tires tend to be easier to deal with. I have had exceptions (the one that comes to mind was a Hutchinson tubeless gravel tire that I had to cut off of a tubeless-ready wheel because it was so tight).

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Could someone comment on differences between the older and newer versions of the Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires? The new one is termed TL Easy, with Addix compound, and advertised as exhibiting souplesse.

I have used the older version before. Semi difficult to mount, but not too bad, all things considered. Reason I ask is that I tried fitting a regular 584 Schwalbe One tire onto a 584 rim, and it was the most difficult thing ever, even with soapy water spray, which up til yesterday worked like a charm on most previous installations. My index finger is currently missing some skin, due to all the abrasion from using the tire lever. If the newer version is easier to mount (than either the One tire or the older Pro One), then by all means, I'd pony up a bit extra for it.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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marting wrote:
An update on my exploits about from 10 pages ago.

Mavic Cosmic UST rims with GP5000TL:
Front wheel sealed at the first attempt, though the tyre was a real pain to get on.
Rear wheel never sealed. Despite 3 valves, 3 different rim tapes and me cleaning/filing/sanding every blemish I could find on the rim interior (there were several). And the tyre was an utter nightmare to get on/off each time; no chance of a timely repair in a race situation.

Gave up, and switched to using the same tyres on...

Hed Jet+ rims with GP5000TL:

Tyres easy to fit (no levers required - could fit a tube at the roadside if I had to)
One wrap of the HED rim tape. Inflate with tube overnight to bed the tape in.
Tube out, sealant in and inflate with my ghetto tubeless inflator to seat the beads
Pump up to 80psi, give each wheel a good shake to distribute the sealant, and that was it.
Done. First time on each wheel. Zero hassle. Happy days :-)

An update:
I had a blowout with my GP5000TL rear on Hed Jet+ rim this weekend. I hit the edge of a pothole hard on a quick descent and tore a hole about 6mm long in the sidewall. The tyre deflated quickly, but it was slow enough that I could stop the bike before it became dangerous. The hole was too big for the sealant to handle alone, and dynaplugging it wasn't quite enough either. So I removed one bead, popped in a butyl tube, refitted the bead, pump/CO2 to pressure off we went. The tyre is scrap, but it got me home without issue.

Some lessons learned:
  • Removing/refitting the tyre bead wasn't noticeably more difficult than a standard clincher. The sealant might have helped here to lubricate the process.
  • It's lucky I was carrying a butyl tube, because a latex tube would likely have squeezed out through the hole and exploded.
  • If I carry a latex spare, I'd better be sure to carry a tyre boot too.
  • It was a bit messy, but not really problematic.

Conclusion: I'd be happy running this tubeless set up in a race situation. With sealant, dynaplugs, and the knowledge that popping a tube in for larger holes isn't especially slow or difficult.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Could someone comment on differences between the older and newer versions of the Schwalbe Pro One tubeless tires? The new one is termed TL Easy, with Addix compound, and advertised as exhibiting souplesse.

I have used the older version before. Semi difficult to mount, but not too bad, all things considered. Reason I ask is that I tried fitting a regular 584 Schwalbe One tire onto a 584 rim, and it was the most difficult thing ever, even with soapy water spray, which up til yesterday worked like a charm on most previous installations. My index finger is currently missing some skin, due to all the abrasion from using the tire lever. If the newer version is easier to mount (than either the One tire or the older Pro One), then by all means, I'd pony up a bit extra for it.

Hopefully someone can chime in, but I don't have any experience with the newer ones. I have two sets of the older 2019 model, which I've been using on multiple wheels I've tested in the last year. They're the ones *before* Schwalbe went to their newer sizing based on 19mm internal rims. Mine generally seem reasonable to get on most rims.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for sharing. Gives me a bit more hope that the older version might work
Last edited by: echappist: Aug 12, 20 9:26
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [marting] [ In reply to ]
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marting wrote:

[..]
  • It's lucky I was carrying a butyl tube, because a latex tube would likely have squeezed out through the hole and exploded.
  • If I carry a latex spare, I'd better be sure to carry a tyre boot too.

I've used a wrapping from a gel as a emergency tyre boot on a few occasions to avoid the tube being squeezed out of the hole
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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echappist wrote:
Thank you for sharing. Gives me a bit more hope that the older version might work

I don't have the older Schwalbe Pro One, but I have the newer Pro One TLE (HS 493) 28mm. Initially, I had a really hard time putting the beads over the rims (new Enve SES 4.5 AR). Just like you, I also suffered from the tubeless index finger - I lost some skin on the index finger in my unsuccessful attempt to put the bead over the rim without using a tire lever. Eventually, I had to use a tire lever. I later discovered the reason for the difficulty: the Enve 4.5 AR rims have a really deep well (aka the installation channel). When I installed the rim tape, I did not push the rim tape down to conform to the well and therefore the tire bead did not have a deep enough channel to give me that extra room. When I re-installed the rim tape properly the second time, I managed to mount the tire without using any tire lever.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cat4forlife] [ In reply to ]
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Just wanted to mention that I was able to seat the tire properly. Turns out, the suggestion from @Fleck in the tube change thread was immensely helpful.

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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [rrutis] [ In reply to ]
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I mounted a pair of Gravelking SK+ 700x38 on dt swiss r500 rims (internal width 22mm and outer width 26mm). I used Stan's sealant and have had issues with weeping too. I'm still building the bike so have yet to ride the tires on this tubeless setup. Has your weeping been resolved?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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Sparks wrote:
Thanks to everyone who has provided advice, insight, words of encouragement, etc. I'm a week into the tubeless experiment, and the verdict is "so far, so good." A couple of observations:

1. Adding sealant helps with the air loss. Earth shattering, I know. And over the course of the week, the rate of air loss decreased. I still need to air up before each ride, but I'm not having to add as much air.

2. For all the nightmare experiences people seem to have with getting Conti GP5000s onto their wheels, they're a breeze to get onto HED Vanquish 6s. A couple of minutes for each tire, without too much force. No tools needed, and no swearing involved. That goes for 25mm tires and 28mm tires.

thats really good to hear. ill be mounting these tires on my vanquish 6 and rear disc coming up. glad its not too arduous.

'21 Captex Tri / '21 Lubbock 70.3 / '21 Clash Daytona / '22 Texas 70.3 / '22 Ironman Texas

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Just found out about this thread after working on my tubeless tire(s) recently.

A little over 2 years ago, I bought a Trek and decided to try tubeless. Bontrager Aerolus Pro 3 disc with Schwalbe Pro One 28's. For about a month, they were great until I got a somewhat deep cut which took awhile to seal. Upon getting home, I discovered I couldn't get more than 60 psi without sealant pouring out the hole so I brought it back to my LBS and they replaced the tire (for a discount - not free). Another month later, I got a similar cut and I was so worried it wouldn't hold air, I bought some new wheels with tube tires as I was heading to France for 2 weeks in the Pyrenees and didn't want to take a chance with flats.

Well, stupid me left the wheels with the TL tires in my garage for nearly 2 years and the sealant dried up. I had gone tubeless on another bike I built and bought some inexpensive Mavic Ksyrium UST Disc wheels with their tubeless tires. I'd been riding them with no problems for over a year and not long ago changed one tire with no major issue. Oh, it was a little difficult to get on, but my plastic tire irons did the trick and my cheapo air compressor got them going easily.

So I figured I was now an 'expert' with tubeless and I pulled out those Aerolus wheels and attempted to get one of the tires off. Absolutely NO WAY could I get the bead off. I tried everything. Finally I got out a box cutter and sliced open the tire (maybe just 400 miles on them) and I still couldn't get the bead out of the hook. I thought it was fused to the rim. Finally after a bunch of advice from guys on Facebook, I took that box cutter and carefully sliced at the bead. Eventually I cut through the bead and it literally 'snapped' like a rubber band and the whole thing came out of the rim. So it wasn't the dried sealant that was holding it in, but what appeared to be a super tight bead stuck under the hook.

After cleaning the rim, I put on another new Schwalbe Pro One relatively easy. Oh, I couldn't get it on without the plastic tire irons, but it wasn't that much harder than some Continental 4000s on other wheels I have. The seal was so good, I even rode the bike for an hour without sealant just out of curiosity. I then added sealant again (Orange) and have already put on over 200 miles with no problems.

So that's my story :).
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [karlw2000] [ In reply to ]
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I've definitely been there having to cut off a tubeless tire! It's only been a couple times. The other trick you can do is to lay the wheel on the ground (on a towel or something that won't scratch the rim), and step on the tire with a shoe on. Sometimes all your body weight is enough to force the bead off of the bead shelf. If that fails, I resort to cutting.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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I've now gone 142 miles on that new Schwalbe Pro One (probably not the latest version) and after a 83 mile ride, I discovered I must have had a slow leak because of a little bit of Orange sealant on the back of my bike. Nothing compared to flats I've had before so I started looking for the hole and I literally couldn't find it. I did find a very small piece of glass embedded, but I've had similar on many tires upon inspection after rides.

So I'm wondering if these tiny little leaks maybe wouldn't have caused a leak in a tube (especially latex), but since tubeless doesn't have tubes, they potentially have leaks often, but the sealant just plugs them up and usually nobody notices or cares.
Last edited by: karlw2000: Aug 24, 20 12:12
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [karlw2000] [ In reply to ]
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karlw2000 wrote:

So I'm wondering if these tiny little leaks maybe wouldn't have caused a leak in a tube (especially latex), but since tubeless doesn't have tubes, they potentially have leaks often, but the sealant just plugs them up and usually nobody notices or cares.

I see what you're saying. And I think it's reasonable. It also depends a lot on how thick and beefy your tires are (for both tubeless and tubed).

I have seen a handful of people go to tubeless thinking that it's a cure-all for flats... but they pick a tubeless tires that's racy and thin... and get disappointed. I just tell people that if you REALLY want less flats - tubeless or tubed - you have to pick a thicker tire. I've ridden the Pro Ones quite a bit (like you, not the latest version), and I like them quite a lot. No flats so far - knock on wood. However, I would really like to see Schwalbe offer something that's one step more durable, i.e. a more training-specific tire.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [damon.lebeouf] [ In reply to ]
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damon.lebeouf wrote:
Sparks wrote:
Thanks to everyone who has provided advice, insight, words of encouragement, etc. I'm a week into the tubeless experiment, and the verdict is "so far, so good." A couple of observations:

1. Adding sealant helps with the air loss. Earth shattering, I know. And over the course of the week, the rate of air loss decreased. I still need to air up before each ride, but I'm not having to add as much air.

2. For all the nightmare experiences people seem to have with getting Conti GP5000s onto their wheels, they're a breeze to get onto HED Vanquish 6s. A couple of minutes for each tire, without too much force. No tools needed, and no swearing involved. That goes for 25mm tires and 28mm tires.


thats really good to hear. ill be mounting these tires on my vanquish 6 and rear disc coming up. glad its not too arduous.

Hopefully your experience will be as pain-free as mine has been. I just mounted a new 25mm on my rear V6 last night. Took about 2 minutes. No tools. No swearing. No problem.

Mike Sparks


I have competed well, I have finished the race, I have kept the faith.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Sparks] [ In reply to ]
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Just mounted Schwalbe Pro One 25mm to my Aeolus Pro 5s. Way easier than the bonty AW2. 2 levers did the trick, no bloody knuckles😂

Seated easy and held air w no sealant. First ride felt good. Will post on durability

http://www.TriScottsdale.org
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hey all - this isn't exactly tubeless-specific, but it's at least tubeless-adjacent. We just put up a fun article about Heather Jackson and Ben Hoffman taking part in this year's BWR Cedar City:

https://www.slowtwitch.com/...Cedar_City_7799.html


There is a video for each athlete discussing their bikes and equipment choices (including tubeless tire pressure), and a long-form chat between the two of them discussing their 2020 "season" in general. Enjoy!

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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i wanted to toss my info in for anyone that would care.

a couple of days ago i mounted conti 5000 tubless tires on a set of hed vanquish wheels, 6 in the front and disc in the back. i mounted them WITH a tube installed so i could get a couple of rides in with the tube flattening out and making the rim tape all nice and smooth and wonderful.

mounting the tires wasnt any more of a pain than any tires ive done. a couple of simple tire tools and they went on quite easy, compared to some that spawned cursing and throwing things. no blisters, sore hands or scuffed skin at all. im very happy with this setup and the ease of mounting.

'21 Captex Tri / '21 Lubbock 70.3 / '21 Clash Daytona / '22 Texas 70.3 / '22 Ironman Texas

80/20 Endurance Ambassador
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