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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hey all - just a heads up that we released a new video on the home page. It's a follow-up to the previous video, which showed how to install sealant by pouring it into the tire. Today's video shows how to inject sealant using the system from KOM Cycling. Note that it will also work with inner tubes, provided that the valve stems have removable cores. It's pretty slick, and is my new favorite method for installing sealant.

I'm working on a separate video showing tire installation on the DT Swiss Arc 1100 wheels you see in the background of this video.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for posting this. I'd like to go tubeless and am trying to "get lucky" and have the tire catch on what is technically not a tubeless wheel. Maybe it's time to just switch wheels to ones that are meant to be tubeless. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried to use non-tubeless for a tubeless setup with success.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [abasmajian] [ In reply to ]
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Lots of people have.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
Hey all - just a heads up that we released a new video on the home page. It's a follow-up to the previous video, which showed how to install sealant by pouring it into the tire. Today's video shows how to inject sealant using the system from KOM Cycling. Note that it will also work with inner tubes, provided that the valve stems have removable cores. It's pretty slick, and is my new favorite method for installing sealant.

I'm working on a separate video showing tire installation on the DT Swiss Arc 1100 wheels you see in the background of this video.
Been using the same KOM injector, it's been so easy to use I could not understand why you were making things so hard previously. It's super easy, super clean, very cheap, just rinse it with warm water after each use.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
gregk wrote:
Hey all - just a heads up that we released a new video on the home page. It's a follow-up to the previous video, which showed how to install sealant by pouring it into the tire. Today's video shows how to inject sealant using the system from KOM Cycling. Note that it will also work with inner tubes, provided that the valve stems have removable cores. It's pretty slick, and is my new favorite method for installing sealant.

I'm working on a separate video showing tire installation on the DT Swiss Arc 1100 wheels you see in the background of this video.
Been using the same KOM injector, it's been so easy to use I could not understand why you were making things so hard previously. It's super easy, super clean, very cheap, just rinse it with warm water after each use.

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you wondering why I was using a different style injector previously and/or pouring sealant into the tire?

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [abasmajian] [ In reply to ]
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abasmajian wrote:
Thanks for posting this. I'd like to go tubeless and am trying to "get lucky" and have the tire catch on what is technically not a tubeless wheel. Maybe it's time to just switch wheels to ones that are meant to be tubeless. I'm wondering if anyone else has tried to use non-tubeless for a tubeless setup with success.

In the early days of tubeless, there were years and years of this... which is what birthed Stan's NoTubes rims, rim strip conversions, tape, etc... which led to a host of other conversion products from other companies. This all led to the current state of at least half of all new wheels being tubeless-ready.

Personally, there are just too many good products today that are much more turn-key than the old conversions, for me to ever want to mess with the conversion science experiment of various layers of tape, rubber strips, etc. I'm also a lot more wary of one-off conversions for road tubeless (vs MTB tubeless) just because of the high tire pressures involved.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean. Are you wondering why I was using a different style injector previously and/or pouring sealant into the tire?
Pouring sealant into the tire. It seems like so much more likely to create a mess for no real reason.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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gregk wrote:
Hey all - just a heads up that we released a new video on the home page. It's a follow-up to the previous video, which showed how to install sealant by pouring it into the tire. Today's video shows how to inject sealant using the system from KOM Cycling. Note that it will also work with inner tubes, provided that the valve stems have removable cores. It's pretty slick, and is my new favorite method for installing sealant.

I'm working on a separate video showing tire installation on the DT Swiss Arc 1100 wheels you see in the background of this video.

The video is perfect for this old guy going the tubeless route for the first time. What I don't know is if one needs to re-install the "straw" and suck out the sealant every three or four months before adding a new 45 ml injection?
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Benv] [ In reply to ]
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Benv wrote:
gregk wrote:

I'm not sure what you mean. Are you wondering why I was using a different style injector previously and/or pouring sealant into the tire?
Pouring sealant into the tire. It seems like so much more likely to create a mess for no real reason.

I mean, it's not that hard especially if you're doing it on the first installation of the tire, and it doesn't make a mess if done properly. Is that my default way of installing sealant? No, because injectors are easier. But not all valves have removable cores, like some Shimano tubeless valves I used a few years ago - and then you either need Caffelatex and their injector, or to pour it straight in the tire.

The real reason I made the first video (about pouring the sealant in) is because people had asked me about how you do it without a mess, and it's my job to explain things. Doesn't mean that it's something I'm personally advocating, especially if you already own an injector that you're happy with.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Billyk24] [ In reply to ]
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Billyk24 wrote:
gregk wrote:
Hey all - just a heads up that we released a new video on the home page. It's a follow-up to the previous video, which showed how to install sealant by pouring it into the tire. Today's video shows how to inject sealant using the system from KOM Cycling. Note that it will also work with inner tubes, provided that the valve stems have removable cores. It's pretty slick, and is my new favorite method for installing sealant.

I'm working on a separate video showing tire installation on the DT Swiss Arc 1100 wheels you see in the background of this video.


The video is perfect for this old guy going the tubeless route for the first time. What I don't know is if one needs to re-install the "straw" and suck out the sealant every three or four months before adding a new 45 ml injection?

Nope - just add more sealant (and make sure that you're not mixing different brands of sealant).

That said, isn't a bad idea is to suck out the remaining sealant momentarily, just to check and see how much is left in there. If you originally installed 50ml, and now you're down to 30ml, you know exactly how much you should add. But it's not that you need to remove and discard old sealant.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Greg,
I'm going to address the question to you since it is kind of your thread and you have taken the lead on this. Have you ever made your own sealant or know anyone that does? I came across a recipe on mtbr a few years back and decided to try it since I am always looking for stuff on the cheap. It has worked out great, been very inexpensive and you can buy all of it in bulk. I've used it in both road and gravel/all-road applications and have pretty much become a tubeless convert because it is so convenient. I keep a sealed jar and when I check an old tire that has dried out a bit (very common in the hot summer here) I just use a kitchen spatula/scraper, put the thick stuff back in my jar, mix it up, add a bit more liquid for the right consistency and pour it back in. As I have read about many people's complaints on this thread, I have wondered if the hassle/cost of sealant does not prevent a major obstacle.
Chad
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [cdw] [ In reply to ]
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cdw wrote:
Greg,
I'm going to address the question to you since it is kind of your thread and you have taken the lead on this. Have you ever made your own sealant or know anyone that does? I came across a recipe on mtbr a few years back and decided to try it since I am always looking for stuff on the cheap. It has worked out great, been very inexpensive and you can buy all of it in bulk. I've used it in both road and gravel/all-road applications and have pretty much become a tubeless convert because it is so convenient. I keep a sealed jar and when I check an old tire that has dried out a bit (very common in the hot summer here) I just use a kitchen spatula/scraper, put the thick stuff back in my jar, mix it up, add a bit more liquid for the right consistency and pour it back in. As I have read about many people's complaints on this thread, I have wondered if the hassle/cost of sealant does not prevent a major obstacle.
Chad

I've seen a few recipes over the years (probably the same stuff you saw on MTBR), but I've never made it myself. Mostly just because I've been given enough sealant to try, that I never ran out or needed to go spend money to make my own. If you're happy with your results, I'd say run with it! Everyone I know that runs tubeless just buys off-the-shelf from the major brands.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone using the newish mucoff sealant? They started selling it at REI so I'm giving it a try but haven't been that enthusiastic, its thicker than stans/orangeseal so it coats the inside of the tire more but is harder to check the levels because it doesn't pool at the bottom. Doesn't dry as much IME but I've had a puncture not stay sealed consistently with it either, may just be a fluke but seeing what others experience are
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [redlude97] [ In reply to ]
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redlude97 wrote:
Anyone using the newish mucoff sealant? They started selling it at REI so I'm giving it a try but haven't been that enthusiastic, its thicker than stans/orangeseal so it coats the inside of the tire more but is harder to check the levels because it doesn't pool at the bottom. Doesn't dry as much IME but I've had a puncture not stay sealed consistently with it either, may just be a fluke but seeing what others experience are


Not I.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Hey all - we put a new article on the home page reviewing the DT Swiss ARC 1100 DICUT 62. This includes a video of tire installation, to show how tight the tires were. I used 25mm Pro Ones (2019 model, not the new one with the orange label). They were tight, but I got 'em on.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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I was hoping to find an easier answer to this question: what tubeless tire should I run this winter? My climate is relatively mild, but I want to decrease my flat potential when it is near freezing. I'll still be training hard and going for the occasional spirited group ride, and I'm definitely not looking for the tubeless equivalent of a gatorskin. This chart makes it look like my go to winter tire is going to be the same as my go to summer tire... GP 5000TL


Last edited by: commendatore: Oct 13, 19 19:42
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Any tips on air travel with tubeless, optimal pressure? About to pack for a flight and hope to arrive without a pool of sealant in my bike travel case. Thanks
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [commendatore] [ In reply to ]
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commendatore wrote:
I was hoping to find an easier answer to this question: what tubeless tire should I run this winter? My climate is relatively mild, but I want to decrease my flat potential when it is near freezing. I'll still be training hard and going for the occasional spirited group ride, and I'm definitely not looking for the tubeless equivalent of a gatorskin. This chart makes it look like my go to winter tire is going to be the same as my go to summer tire... GP 5000TL

In that crop of tires in your image, and based on your priority of least flat risk, I think the GP 5000 TL is the best choice (however, I have no idea what their puncture testing protocol is). It also depends on what tire size you're planning to run... I was going to say the Hutchinson Sector 28 would be a good option, but I don't know if your bike can fit 28's. They also have the Intensive in a variety of sizes, which I understand to be somewhere in that middle zone of durable and not super slow... but I'm not super up-to-date on it. Been trying to get some answers to technical questions from Hutchinson for several months now.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [tri3ba] [ In reply to ]
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tri3ba wrote:
Any tips on air travel with tubeless, optimal pressure? About to pack for a flight and hope to arrive without a pool of sealant in my bike travel case. Thanks

The #1 tip is to use a bike box that doesn't require you to completely deflate your tires to fit inside. I had a case that was very compact for my S&S coupler bike, but I had to basically make the tires totally flat - which could result in the tires becoming unseated and sealant spilling out in the box (which is why I never used tubeless on that bike). In the case of a larger bike box, I let about 40% of the air out to be safe pressure-wise, but also not lose the tire seating.

Other than that, if I was flying with tubeless, I'd bring a small (unopened) bottle of whatever sealant brand I was using, along with a valve core removal tool.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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New tubeless-related review on the home page - the ENVE SES AR 3.4. These are tubeless-ONLY wheels due to the hookless design, and I included a 5-minute video showing the tire fit. The whole setup came on a complete bike that I'm testing, with tires and sealant already installed... so to test the tire fit I removed the sealant and one of the beads. The bike came with 28mm Pro Ones, which installed very easily, but required compressed air for inflation. Definitely could install a spare tube on the side of the road.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Greg -- You seem to have experience with the new HED Vanquish wheels. I'm thinking about getting them on for my next rig. How difficult is mounting the GP5K TL on the Vanquish? It was damn near impossible on my ENVE 5.6s -- literally broke multiple tire levels and resorted to a bead jack and heavy shop gloves to grip tire. Can't imagine doing having to insert an emergency tube in there if a bacon strip didn't seal.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
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wintershade wrote:
Greg -- You seem to have experience with the new HED Vanquish wheels. I'm thinking about getting them on for my next rig. How difficult is mounting the GP5K TL on the Vanquish? It was damn near impossible on my ENVE 5.6s -- literally broke multiple tire levels and resorted to a bead jack and heavy shop gloves to grip tire. Can't imagine doing having to insert an emergency tube in there if a bacon strip didn't seal.

I've never used the Vanquish wheels. Just their alloy rims (i.e. Jet, Jet Plus, Ardennes Plus, skinny H3). During that time I ran tubes for most setups - except I had some Ardennes on a mountain bike with Maxxis Ardent 29x2.4 TLR tires, which set up really nicely. Mounted up with little hassle and inflated with a floor pump.

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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Just made the jump to road tubeless. I normally ride HED Jet 6 wheels with Conti GP 4000 tires, and I was due to put new tires on my bike. With some good deals on last year’s Schwalbe Pro 1 tubeless tires available, it really was only an additional cost of $35 for Orange Seal Valve Stems and Stan’s tire sealant to see for myself if tubeless is worth it.

First, thanks to Greg K and the helpful information and videos. Getting the last 6 inches of tire bead onto the rim is hard! I struggled for quite a while on the front tire, but using the clamp method and a sturdy tire lever I was able to quickly get the rear tire on the rim. My first surprise came with inflation. The bead of the tire seated easily on the rim with only a couple of quick pumps of a standard floor pump. The second surprise was that the front tire maintained pressure w/o any sealant. The rear tire slowly leaked to soft over a 12 hr period. I pulled the valve cores, put in the Stan’s sealant, re-inflated and both tires hold pressure nicely.

I have a few hundred miles on the tires now, running them at 80 psi (the roads here in Florida are pretty good). I weigh 175 lbs. Since I can’t tell the difference between a $50 bottle of wine and a $8, I doubted I would notice much difference in feel between tubeless and tubes. Well, I was wrong. They feel different, and my average speed seems a little faster.

The big selling point for me will be puncture resistance. Are the Schwalbe Pro 1’s as puncture resistant as the Conti GP4000’s? When they do puncture, will the sealant seal the puncture w/o significant loss of psi? Only time will tell, but for now I am glad I gave road tubeless a try.
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [Crash_Davis] [ In reply to ]
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Crash_Davis wrote:

The big selling point for me will be puncture resistance. Are the Schwalbe Pro 1’s as puncture resistant as the Conti GP4000’s? When they do puncture, will the sealant seal the puncture w/o significant loss of psi? Only time will tell, but for now I am glad I gave road tubeless a try.

Glad to help, and good to know that my articles and videos aren't going out into the ether with nobody seeing them!

As for puncture resistance, it's hard to say. I've ridden Conti GP 4000's quite a lot, and I'm currently riding Schwalbe Pro Ones on three different bikes (though one is a test bike that will be back in a box and shipped away soon). I honestly can't remember the last time I flatted on any bike... I live in Florida too, and the roads here are crazy good compared to every other state I've lived in. Historically, I've had most of my road bike flats on handmade cotton tires. So personally, I can't really give you a verdict. I believe the Conti tread is a bit thicker, which suggests a bit better puncture protection - but I have no data to back it up.

Pressure loss - all depends on the size/type of puncture. Larger tires and lower pressure help the chance of sealing (i.e. a 28mm tire will have an easier time than a 23mm tire). I've had a 23mm tire "seal", but when you pump it back up to operating pressure, it started leaking again (the sealant couldn't hold at the high pressure). Your best bet is to make sure you have enough sealant in the tire - it will dry out over time and you need to add more. And shake the sealant well to be sure you're mixing up the particles evenly.

Maybe I should do a puncture test before I send my test bike back? ;) I swear, I was just ridin' along, and the tire magically got a big hole in it...

Greg Kopecky - Slowtwitch Tech Editor
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Re: Tubeless wheel and tire SUPER THREAD [gregk] [ In reply to ]
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To no one in particular, just thought I would share my experience with my latest setup:
Wheels - Hed Jet 6 Black
Tires - Schwalbe new Pro one 2020 tubeless 25mm
Valves - Silca 80 mm tubeless with speedshield. The speedshield is key if you are trying to set up a pair of Hed Jets tubeless, IMO.
Sealant - Stans regular
Tape - Silca Tubeless 25mm

Tires went on without the use of any tools or levers, they were by no means easy though. I wouldn't love having to put a tube in there on the side of a road during a race, but it would be doable. The funny part was the first bead was actually harder to get on than the second bead. Well ok maybe not harder, but probably the hardest 'first bead' I have ever experienced. Setting the second bead took a minute or two just working it back and forth and making sure it was in the channel. Basically just had to muscle the last couple inches of tire bead on the rim, lever probably would have made it easier but wanted to see if I could get it done without a tool. It was nice not having to worry about pinching a tube in there. On the side of a road, if you had to insert a tube, those last couple inches would be a little more of a pain, since you have to be a little more delicate with the tube.

Anyways - got them both on, aired up with compressor, no really loud pings or pops, just kinda seated themselves. Took out the valve to add sealant and one of the beads would come undone. Tried this a couple times, letting the air out very slowly, but couldnt get both sides to stay in. Added the sealant with injector anyways, aired them back up, didnt have a drop of sealant anywhere and everything seated up nicely again. Everything seemed to hold up good overnight.

Tires measured out to 27mm, although that is probably at something close to 100 psi, which I would never run that high on these tires and rims, just kinda threw that much in there when I was setting them up.

Not that any of those is news breaking, but yes, HED jets are able to set up tubeless with the right stuff.

Oh also forgot to add that this was my first time using a heat gun on tubeless tape (i have probably set up a dozen or so wheel sets tubeless before this), what a game changer! Adding just enough heat to really seal the edges down and help with the bubbles resulted in the cleanest, least bubbly, tape job i have ever seen. go pick up the cheap 13 dollar one at Harbor Freight.
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