Still waiting for them to open it up to people with 'dumb' trainers via ANT+ speed/cadence sensors and their zPower.

Me! M. Shaffer, I generally ride evenings (Pacific Time).

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___________________________________
MS: Exercise Science
Your speed matters a lot, sometimes you need to be very fast, where sometimes you need to breakdown your speed.

They have! If you have a Kurt Kinetic or Cycle ops Fluid they have released some beta test licenses. I have used it both ways.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Unfortunately I don't have either of those trainers. I just got a normal TravelTrac Comp fluid trainer.

Thing is, I bought the trainer not that long ago. If I had known that Zwift would be opening up their program to classic trainers, I would've spent the extra money right away for the Kurt Kinetic or Cycleops.

I have also dedicated a pc and 30" screen to it.

The game is absolutely phenomenal and all were doing is riding around a small 5k loop.

I can only imagine the feeling of lining up in a future "race" at a certain time with a countdown on the screen knowing the pain ahead - plus of course the potential of the training modes

I am literally excited to get on the trainer. I know what hard work is and I know the value of indoor training but I've never said it was "fun" until now.

I've broken all my personal power records for 5 sec, 10 sec, 1 min, 5 min and 10 min because of some in-game sprinting and kom stuff. It's a game changer, pun intended

I'm on.

I have to restrict myself to using it for free/fun rides because I find it too difficult to stick to a workout.

That's a good point. I do my trainerroad workouts in zwift by having tr on my phone. But sometimes the temptation to sprint is there when I'm in the middle of a 2x20

I've never used Zwift so am wondering how this might compare to Tour de Giro. TdG has a planned races and then it counts down and you go at it with everyone there + AIs. Is Zwift like that? Better?

I have been using 2 ANT+ sticks in my laptop and run trainer road on the bottom of my screen. If I want to do a specific workout I just make sure to follow T.R.s target power. It's a little tricky to get both ANT sticks synced up but once you do its a breeze. In find it easy to do both at once. I personally don't feel like I have to sprint for the green jersey or climb like an animal most of the time. So for me it's a great way to get a 40 mile ride in without going insane with boredom or replaying ISLAGIATT for the 20th time.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

It's a lot like tour de giro. right now its in beta so you only get a 5k course you can do laps on. But much, much more is coming for sure. The graphics just blow TdG away. Plus there's a lot more going on with sprints, and KOMS. But yes, the "gameplay" is similar, you can draft etc...

By the way I am in no way affiliated with Zwift. Just a user who enjoys what they are doing.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'm lucky to have been accepted into the beta program as well. I generally like Zwift for many of the reasons mentioned. My only caveat being that Zwift currently does not fully support my Cycleops Powerbeam Pro (smart) trainer. Zwift picks up my ANT+ power but it does not control the resistance based on course. So, I can tool around the island in my 53-11 but need insane cadence to really get into HR/watts training/real work range. That part is disheartening but I will remain patient hoping that Zwift adds the Powerbeam to its fully supported trainer lineup.

I do not have a Joule head unit so I have no way of controlling my resistance other than through the Virtual Training software specific to Cycleops and that requires being in either a structured workout or online course. (i.e. no SIM mode like Kickr)

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tinman

applied and got my invite yesterday - recovering from food poisoning so expect to start tuesday!

cannot wait!!!

Still waiting for Mac OS development to finish being made...

Right now Zwift is significantly better than TDG in graphics and basic user interface. TDG is significantly better than Zwift in every other way right now (drafting, organizing and participating in races, racing against AI's that where you choose their watts, downloading your own .gpx files and having a map automatically generated, having both handicapped and strict power based races, etc.)

For me if I just want to ride, and maybe sprint a few times, I would choose Zwift because those graphics are really nice and immersive (especially after I updated an old graphics card). If I want to train I run TrainerRoad and Zwift at the same time and watch the 3D guy do intervals while listening to Pandora. If I want to race, whether against real people or "bots," Tour de Giro is definitely the way to go.

I'm on. I like it for what it is- which is turning indoor trainer workouts into something less than boring torture. Graphics are pretty awesome. Potential functionality and gamification can make this thing really take off. Could see how this really could be immersive if you could partner with oculus rift or other good vr headsets.

In all seriousness right now not worth it for your needs

There are some killer deals on off lease PCs for 80-120 bucks, that is cheaper than the win7 license itself.

if you must have an hdmi out then for another 25-50 bucks you can add that.

I'm having issues with the onboard NIC on the machine I built from spare parts, all I need is a card and i'm still tempted to just pick up one of the off lease machines I keep seeing.


In regards to zwift, haven't used it yet, went to a few times but just keep ending up doing a TR ride. I have no ride scheduled tomorrow so if I work from home due to the snow I'll probably finally do one for fun.

How would you know what my needs are?

You're right a $200 p.c. with a 1gb dedicated graphics card and 8 gigs of memory, and a quad core processor... I am an idiot.

Got any other pearls of wisdom?

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

however would one figure that out

Right so by your arrogant presumption... the program will never leave beta (yeah ok...) ...

Right now I am running the application on a 64mb video card (integrated) on my laptop and the frame rate sucks...

In the grand scheme of things 200 bucks in the sport we all enjoy is a drop in bucket.

This year, first child on the way next month, I plan on spending a lot of time on the trainer (opportunistic training will be my friend) ... $200 well spent IMO.

So unless you have something more productive and less speculative to say, 0 fucks will be given by me about your assessment of my needs. :)

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Yes offering suggestions to someone to save a few bucks (and most likely hassle down the road) who is too incompetent to read a spec sheet and build a PC themselves is now arrogance.

Incompetent? Haha you're such a tool. My friend owns his own computer company and has tons of spare parts at his disposal. Asking him to build me a cheap quality p.c. was the right decision. Troll on mrtopher.


FWIW: You're suggestion to get an off lease ($80-120) p.c. presumably off tiger direct or the like would not meet the minimum requirements for this program or anything else down the road. The arrogant part comes in when you make a lot of assumptions about A) my needs B) what I had my friend build and C) what I spent on the project. To have built the same p.c. with new parts myself would have cost me a lot more.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Also just so we are clear here

Where did I call you an idiot or even possibly imply it?

I offered a simple suggest to you and anyone else reading this thread an affordable way to setup a dedicated machine for a trainer that will handle this in beta and production form plus just about anything else that may possible come out in the next few years.

Instead of saying thanks or simply leaving it a one you chose to instead become a complete fucking asshole.

You are going to be a stellar role model for this child.

And please, if you are going to stoop to the level of trying to call me a bad parent.... I urge you to reconsider. It's in pretty poor taste.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

You do realize that there are time stamps on this forum right? And that unless you go further edit your posts everything is right here for everyone to see the actual order that the conversation occurred...

I havent changed anything I have said. I have gone back and added in pertinent quotes of YOURS that confirm what I have said. I have nothing to hide.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Quite honestly, I am very disappointed in how this thread has turned out. I was hoping to find out fellow twitchers who were suing the program to create a sense of community in the program itself.

I was offended by what you said. It was presumptuous and IMO condescending. If it wasn't intended to be so be it. I would appreciate it if this thread could move forward amicably and not waste any more time on this argument.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Yet you still missed the key part that you tried to imply I called you an idiot before I said one single negative word to or about you and had only posted a suggest that was to help both you and the community.

please refer to post #24 or better yet, let it go and be constructive, if that was you're true intention from the get go. Let's not waste each others time with internet bickering.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

All post 24 does is prove that you don't understand how forums or even time works. Really the order of the posts prior to 24 is all right there for you and anyone else to see.


If you want to let it go and move then you not anyone else needs to understand that this was the post I made that you could not handle....


That is it, I posted a suggestion to find a good deal on dedicated machines. There was even someone saying they were waiting for them to have better mac OS support, those machines could be useful for them.


You decided to be an asshole to a complete stranger for no other reason than you have really bad reading comprehension.

What I found annoying was you assuming you have any idea what my needs are. You had no idea what computer I was currently using. You also had no idea what I will be paying my friend for a "dedicated p.c." ... you had no idea what specs I had him build it to. You haven't even used the program yourself by your own admission. If you were just trying to be helpful I am sorry. It came off as just another condescending Slow Twitch post. And you didn't exactly take the high road calling me too incompetent to build it myself.

I am trying really hard here to believe you had the best of intentions and I took it the wrong way. So, for the last time, let's move forward and turn this post into a positive message. By all means, post good quality p.c.s that meet the minimum specs (or better) ... I feel like I did well for myself. But we don't all have friends to build us P.C.s and we don't all have the skill set to build them ourselves. Links to said P.C.s encouraged.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

That is the one and only thing that happened here. You chose to read my post as condescending, the same way you chose to read it as me calling you an idiot. 100% of that is on you and no one else.

Wow - ppl have been overdoing the T on this thread...

Agreed!

Please don't interpret what I said above as to you being an idiot or bad parent. ;-)

Ok - Back to the topic at hand.

I'm in on Zwift beta. Been donig Zwift and TDG since mid December. I use TDG to do races and hard efforts. Almost all TDG rides are Zone 4+. I usually race 2-3 times a week. I ride Zwift when there isn't a good TDG race available or I just want to cruise. I'm using a Stages PM and Cyclops fluid2 or rollers for my traniing.

This seems to give me good variability in my training and keeps me motivated. With TDG I have done my 1 year best 60 and 90 minute power 5+ times in the last 45 days. On zwift island I have done quite a few 90+ minute trainer rides without getting bored. I did a century on Zwift with some guys a few weeks ago (5+ hours with 1 9 minute break). Last year anything past 90 minutes on Trainer road was just torture. Now it is almost enjoyable.

I would agree with most observations already stated. TDG has the maps/racing/competition side figured out. Zwift has the graphics, jersey, & Strava uploads nailed. I'm looking forward to Zwift incorporating more of the scheduled race style in their future enhancements.

I used Trainer road last year. I will not be renewing my TR when it comes around. The virtual riding is much more motivating to me then chasing a line on the screen. TR is great for the structured stuff but I just try to make my own workouts in the virtual world. For example - VO2 max intervals on Zwift are from Start line to KOM point (4ish minutes). Then recover back to the start line - another 4ish minutes. REPEAT.... I do things like that to get intervals now as opposed to the Trainer road workouts.

I also have broken out a 32 inch flat panel TV for Zwift/TDG.

Give me a wave or jump on my wheel if you see me online - C. Schumm

I am a Zwifter. Joined in the first beta back the first of November. Hit my 1000mi on the island last week. It is fun for easy rides and just "mileage" days. I also do Hill Repeat workouts on it. The KOM takes me about 90sec. I recover on the downhill. Usually put in a 20sec hard sprint at the Orange line. Then ride steady until the next hill climb. Sometimes to make the KOM effort longer, I ride steady through Deliverance Hill.

Its quite crowded on the island now. Almost dont need the AIs anymore. Once they start to build more courses, there will be tons of opportunities for workouts, races, and easy rides.

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Jeff Abbott - @run1fast
jabbott@headsweats.com
Headsweats - Custom Team singlets $8 / Cycling Jerseys $25
Abbott Event Solutions - Brand Rep and Event Manager

Lol ya never know! :-) previous encounter with previous poster lead me down a stupid path. Should have known better.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I agree the AIs are a bit of a distraction. Prefer to do my own thing and occasionally draft back and forth with another zwifter. Hoping to get a small clan of friends together for a group ride... ought to be interesting and challenging to stay in a pack.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I just started Zwifting last week and I love it! There is enough going on on your screen that you don't get bored and the workout flies by. I'm just doing steady base miles right now so I don't do the sprints but I will later on. I just bring my laptop down to the pain cave. I have a 32" TV down there which is perfect to view the screen. I have a PT hub and my HR strap so I get all of the pertinent info. I just have a dumb trainer but it's still cool. I have my 1st FTP test scheduled for this weekend (full hour). Zwift island will make it a lot more bearable.

I've seen some different jerseys on there. Can you earn those??

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"It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster" - Greg LeMond

I'm loving Zwift (J. Titus is my profile). Right now I'm riding the ToS so I am going to be off for a week or so, then back to it.

Yes you earn jerseys and other things like wheels and bikes as you go. The meter at the top shows you your progress and what level you are. At the end of a ride if you stop it will come up with a summary screen. From there you can hit customize and change stuff around!

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Have they opened this to Mac support yet?

I have a P2M powermeter and a cyclops mag trainer w/ Mac laptop.

Cool, thanks!

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"It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster" - Greg LeMond

No mac as of yet as I understand it.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

The AIs used to be really important. When the Beta first started, I was the only rider in Mountain Time. So I would get on and no one would be on, so the AIs were my only option for riding buddies.
I think the AIs will become important again when the workout features come into play. Zwift will be able to create AIs that hold a certain wattage, or speed, or whatever, and you just have to stick with them. Things like that.

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Jeff Abbott - @run1fast
jabbott@headsweats.com
Headsweats - Custom Team singlets $8 / Cycling Jerseys $25
Abbott Event Solutions - Brand Rep and Event Manager

Where does one find such a great deal on a PC? I'd by one of those to use for training in a heartbeat . . .

If you want to get a group together you can try posting on the Zwift group in Strava or on the Zwift support page. I got hooked up with the century on the support page. For the century 6 of us did pretty well staying as a group as long as you were observant and didn't blow someone up that fell back a couple seconds on the climb. It was tough to chase back onto the pack if they didn't soft pedal a little to let you close the gap. We did the century before the latest updates which helped the drafting effect allot. I would suspect it would be even better/easier to do a group ride now.

Wait...you're running Zwift simultaneously with TR (on the iPhone). I must try this.

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Human Person

I run 2 ant sticks and run it simultaneously on the same PC. I do TR in horizontal mode and slide it to the bottom of the screen ...it covers a bit of my rider.. it also hides the rider names behind me which I like.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Is it bad I find the useless fighting on here hilarious?

Does anyone know the timeframe on Mac? How are they releasing beta's? I signed up a long time ago and am assuming haven't heard anything because I use a Mac. Do I need a speed sensor? Or will using my PM on a Fluid Pro be sufficient?

Maybe I should look into one of those $100 PC's

No it isnt bad :).. it is hilarious most of the time... and definitely pointless . I haven't heard a time frame on the mac release. I'd check into the Zwift website for specs on a p.c. they require a 1gb dedicated video card... and that means a power supply that can handle that as well. The rest is fairly standard. I chose to have my friend build a pc for me. That allowed me to pay him instead if an online distributor (he has 2 kids and I'd rather give him my money)...plus if I have an issue down the road it's as simple as hey buddy ya told me a turd fix it!

In searching for p.c.s that meet their requirements (and for me, the potential for B KOOL and Taxc) down the road... it was looking like more in the $250 and up range. There may be better deals out there but I didn't see any that stood out.

But then again I don't have any idea what my needs are so don't listen to me :)

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

If you're contemplating Tacx you might check out our software as well then. I think we offer competitive deal and quality of our videos is second to none. We've just opened our own riding network (it is rather primitive for now and for some time it will stay free as we add features). I would not call it strictly racing but basically you are visible on the road and can see others. What you do (ride along, race, etc) is your own choice.

Forgot to add, I am Zwifting as well every once in a while. I even managed to get (my avatar of course) to one of their online videos.

Kostya

Can you post a screenshot of your multirider solution? I've read about it but am having trouble visualizing how you have "people" appear and disappear when you are using real videos.

(sorry for the thread hyjack)

Anyone have any luck getting it up and running on a virtual machine yet? I have a mac with a Windows 7 vm and it crashes right away

Thanks!

I can't wait to try zwift. odd thing, I have the road machine when I registered with their signup, but have since gotten the inRide but can't change my settings anywhere

O would not even try running apps with modern game type graphics on VM. The only thing it will accomplish in the very best case is to perform very slow. Usual
outcome will be crash. Put a Boot Camp on your Mac and be happy user

I just got in the beta and am installing.... hopefully there is a way to create groups and slowtwitchers get one going, would be cool.

I think the guy was just offering a cheap suggestion for a computer dedicated to Zwift. And then you blew up for whatever reason....

Anyway... back to Zwifting. Carry on.....

Dying to get an invite. Mac + power2max + Kurt Kinetic.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

just did my first zwift ride - that was fun

youre all making me jealous! any word on how fast they're working through the waitlist? It was over 10k when I signed up a couple weeks ago.

Got my invite today, signed up two weeks ago. As far as I can surmise its largely dependant on the equipment youre using.

whats the most common setup? I have a computrainer, garmin hr and speed/cadence, and quarq power. Do I just plan on using the computrainer alone, or do I need the ant+ for everything else. wasn't sure if i even needed the powermeter if im using the computrainer.

Has to be, or maybe other profile information. After seeing this thread, I signed up a yesterday and got my invite 4 hours later. I'm going to have to guess that it was the Lemond Revolution with ANT+ power (Wattbox) and maybe location (Hawaii).

Thanks for pointing out the spelling errors of someone posting from a smartphone with a native tongue other than English.

As far as specs (that's specifications) I submitted with a Powertap, and a Windows laptop, situated in The Netherlands.

I think equipment had a lot to do with it. At first it was only power meters... then virtual power with Kurt kinetic and cycle ops fluid trainers. No idea what is coming. I do have a friend that uses his KIKR and it does vary resistance for hills. .. so they are doing a lot for sure.

If you have a Kurt kinetic or cycle ops fluid you may get in quicker if you go the virtual power route. Maybe not. I was lucky and got my invite on Christmas day. It took me a while to get it working due to my laptops poor specs. I did get it working with new drivers but it isn't optimal (still very fun) ... very curious to see how it looks with a proper p.c. from videos I have seen it looks spectacular.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Thanks for the PC info. Do you know if I'll NEED a speed sensor on a JetFluid Pro trainer using a Quarq?

I signed up and the next morning had an invite I have both PC and mac (no mac support yet) computrainer and powertap (that was tracked through dongle on pc)

I can see using computrainer real course to have my course set and zwift to keep me entertained with netflix as well

this winter will rock a whole lot more

If you are going to use real power (Quarq) there is no need for a speed sensor. I have a speed sensor but it isn't synced to the game. My Zwift is only synced to HR and Stages PM. The speed that shows on my .fit file is what Zwift creates as my virtual speed in the game. The only time a speed sensor is required is if you need to run virtual power because you don't have a PM.

I had a buddy get accepted today with a Quarq, windows PC setup. I can also confirm there are KK, Fluid2, Powermeters, and Kickr's all roaming the island right now. The KK and fluid2 are pretty new.

I think the trick is to be on stable platform or be using the platform they are starting to test. For example - I believe PM and < 3 yr old windows PC is the pretty solid proven setup right now. KK and Fluid2 virtual power is in the new beta stages and being refined. I would guess other trainers and other PC types to come over time.

UP ARROW ... This. And I will say if you are used to Trainer Roads Virtual Power get ready for a "reality" check. Zwift's zPower fluctuates a lot. And is generally about 30 watts lower on weighted average after a ride. They are saying right now that they consider this normal (70 watt power swings at a given cadence.) Seems high to me having used a power meter for a while. I think they have their sampling rate for the speed sensor too frequently but that's just a guess.

Using a Quarc you should have no problem.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'm guessing that the difference in Virtual power to trainer road is due to the "Z" in Zpower. Zwift is trying to do something special to recognize changes in speed. To illustrate - My power will increase and the speed will have a delayed reaction.. Basically I can do a large 1000 watt surge for 1 second and my "speed" would never get to the 1000w calcualted power because I need to hold 1000 watts long enough to accelerate and level off. This would put virtual power guys at a constant delayed reaction to power guys. PM can go from 0w to 1000w theoretically in one data point (second). Virtual power is always going to be slower to react. Zwift is trying to adjust their virtual power to recognize this and react to speed changes. It makes sense to me but I don't know how they are doing it. I'm guessing this is why the power bounces some. They have to be recognizing speed changes between data points as part of their calculation instead of just a straight speed to power calculation. Very interesting concept that I'm sure will take a little bit to get it smoother.

I'm Zwifting as well with a SuperMagneto trainer and Pioneer PM. Probably paying attention to Zwift (with music playing) about 50% of the time, the rest I'm doing structured workouts with Sufferfest Videos or watching some movies so not really paying attention (it does still run on a smaller screen though so I can keep racking up levels).

Never though did I imagine that before a workout I'd be setting up my laptop with an Ant+ stick for Zwift (displays on the laptop screen), an HDMI cable out to a 36" TV for movies, Sufferfest videos, etc. and an iPad to run the Zwift mobile app beside me. Using Training Peaks so I still record my workouts on my Garmin for easy syncing. Whatever happened to a loud stereo and some rollers?!?!

So, I got in my first Zwift ride last night. Pretty cool, I'd have to say.

Like some others I was mostly watching something else on another screen (rewatching the Wire in the new HD release), but it was kinda fun to check out the other riders and try some sprints.

Obviously, it's free in beta, I'm not sure I would sign up for the subscription service at this point. Maybe with some more structured trainings, but I can see it being a bigger advantage if you don't have your own power, similar to what TrainerRoad offers.

That's why I bought the Lemond Wattbox last year -- $10/month for power with TrainerRoad or a one-time $200 purchase? I'll go with the one-time purchase. I know TrainerRoad offers more than just virtual power, but that seems to be biggest selling point.

Travel trac is being added today hopefully, so you'll probably get an invite soon. :)

I'm working on mac right now, it is coming! We originally had it planned a bit earlier, but decided to instead experiment a bit with the users we already had and try to add a few features here and there, and tweak things like drafting and add a bit of gamification. Anyway, it's still at the very earliest a few weeks out until the very first beta users will be on mac, so if you signed up long ago and already have a power meter you'll be one of the earliest to get it. No speed sensor needed if you have a power meter.

Many have had luck using VMware fusion with Win7 or 8, but it's not officially supported. I've used it a few times, and I think there's a 30 day trial of VMware fusion which might last you until the native mac version is ready.

I'm on a mac, and recently got a p2m power meter.

I have a cyclops magnetic trainer-- I sent an email to update my stats (new power meter). are you releasing betas to magnetic trainers or just fluids?

If you have a power meter it doesn't matter what trainer (or rollers) you have. The only thing holding you back now is mac.

just got my invite this morning and love it! actually not using my powermeter, just computrainer. I like the automatic resistance for the hills. I find it a little hard to hold back from sprinting every time I come around for jerseys! Also cool getting dropped by Jani Brajkovic. This will only get better as they add features!

Did my first "ride" today....it is awesome! Time flew past, and I found myself working harder on the trainer than ever before. I can see this getting pretty addictive.

Spot

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___________________________________________________
Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

I just got my invite today as well after waiting a couple of weeks. Really looking forward to having a go once the tour of sufferlandria is over

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http://www.thedeludedcyclist.wordpress.com

I definitely find it easier to ride more similarly to outdoors. I can't wait to try an FTP test with zwift running at the same time.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

for tomorrow and this weekend while zwift is still not on mac and still beta I plan to hook the computrainer up to my mac with trainer road and sufferland videos controlling the workout and zwift on the PC with the dongle capturing powertap and heart rate data - that way I get my structured workout but have incentive to go sprint after someone....

and of course netflix on the tv.....

I do love the toys....

Does anybody know how to get their Zwift rides out of the isolation of the island and into my Garmin connect or training peaks? I wish is had Ant+ Relay like TR does to make my post ride data upload automatic. Worse than that I can't figure out how to even do it manually at this point.

For this reason I have only ridden on the island once because I see no point if I can't quantify the efforts in relation to the rest of my training. Am I missing something or is this feature just not there yet?

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Really easy. Hit save after your ride. It saves it in a folder ... documents/zwift/activities or something like that. Then just upload to wherever by file

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

You can also download it from your dashboard on the zwift website

Applied for beta Tuesday, got in yesterday! But here's the dilemma... the only PC comp that I had that met the specs was my work laptop, which I thought I'd be able to install the game client on.... but no, our IT had other plans. So... any one have any suggestions on where to get a cheap PC that meets all the minimum reqs. I'd like to keep the costs super low, but may consider upping the amount spent if it could double as a media PC.

I'm pretty familiar with web technology and I can't find anywhere on the site to download my file. To me that means:

1. My dashboard is a different version
2. They've poorly designed the interface for this task

I have it syncing to Strava so perhaps I can just export the file from there and then upload to GC/TP from there. Truth being told though, this is far too much work to justify riding in Zwift for my liking. ANT+ Relay fixes this quick and simply. It was fun though so they've been doing a lot of things right. Hopefully they can add this in the roadmap and I can get to more Zwifting in the future.

I'd like the idea of a online organized virtual race series.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I can only tell you what I did, but here is what it looked like for me to download it. The green arrow and box are mine for emphasis.

A decent video card is the most important item. If you have a slow computer and video card, it can actually slow down your ride in the game. Look on the support forums, there are several threads about that.

No such luck for me ...

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

huh. The only thing I can think of is that I had not yet linked with strava when I completed that first ride. I will do more rides this weekend and I wonder if that option will be there for those?

Maybe it's something like "Before X date the files weren't exportable" ... I will look on the local PC when I get home just to see if there are files on there I can use.

You've got to admit though, ANT+ Relay is the way to go seeing how most of us capture everything we ride on some kind of head unit for analysis later on.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

You should still be able to do the method I suggested. Once you located the folder it's easy to upload to strava. That's how I prefer to do it. For me it's 1 less step than going to the website, logging in, and downloading a file that's already saved on my computer. But we all have our preferences... i don't usually have my head unit on with zwift because there are differences in speed and elevation. .. Also you won't have segments show up on your strava. It's nice to check out some of the segments once you are done if you are into that kind of thing.... and uploading from a head unit will not provide that.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

An off lease PC from tigerdirect.com is likely your best bet. Get one with a 1gb dedicated video card. Also make sure to have 4gb ram. And a decent processor doesn't hurt. I forget the minimum spec for that but 3ghz and up. Sounds right.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'm streaming the game live for a few hours if anyone wants to check it out/ask questions and happens to catch this post (6pm Pacific Saturday) - http://www.twitch/tv/1horsepower I'll be streaming a few more times this week as well, you can follow to get notified when it's live. Pretty fun so far, definitely tons of interesting directions they can take this game, the graphics, UI, and engine in general are very smooth.

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http://www.onelesshiker.com
http://www.twitch.tv/1horsepower

Cool. Wish I could hop on while you live stream. I will say thing have become MUCH improved since the last update. Z Power is no longer fluctuating and is on oar with real power IMO. They have also made going around other riders much smoother. No more flying around the screen. ZWIFT ON. Good luck with the live stream!

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Watched for about 20 minutes and really enjoyed it. Made me more eager to get my beta invite. Should be coming very shortly hopefully?

Game seemed to run very smoothly, I'm on a dumb trainer and the drafting/accelerating were fairly predictable. I'll be streaming it here and there, I forgot to have auto archive on the stream but it's on now so the next one will be viewable whenever



Thanks man, hope to see you on the island soon

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http://www.onelesshiker.com
http://www.twitch.tv/1horsepower

What's your island name in case I see you out there? Ok if you don't want to tell... just cool to "know" some people when ur out there and ride together for a bit.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Just got an invite and did a ride.

I'm just on rollers with a powertap. It really is pretty awesome. I like it a lot.

I'm in. M.Tosh. Just did a quick 11 minute ride with my Cycleops yesterday. So amazing to finally have something interactive without forking over another $1k on a smart trainer. May be on again tonight after 9pm ET

RIG:
CycleOps Fluid 2
2003 Trek 1000 58cm with 2012 Mavic Aksiom Race wheelset
[Stock] Shimano Triple (52/42/30) with a SRAM H50 11-28 8speed

Garmin Edge 705 with HRM, Cadence, and Speed
Garmin ANT+ for the Forerunner

MSI H67M-P31 Motherboard with a DVI and VGA (and unused HDMI) on the board
Intel Core i5 3.4MHz
8GB DDR3 1333
Dual 21" LED LCD's
Gigabit LAN connected to Comcast 105Mbps Blast Plus

I hopped on the trainer on sunday for a scheduled 2 hour ride and ted king and laurens ten dam showed up.

We had 75 guys online or so and there must have been 20-30 of us in a single pack.

Ted was chatting it up, complaining about the weather, and we had a lot of fun while trying to keep up to his watts/kg though im sure it was a recovery day for him

Potential is just so huge...







I lost that polkadot jersey.... lol.

I'm B. Jackson on Zwift. Going live again right now, I think I have it set so the stream records so it can be viewed later as well so people who can't see it live can still check out the game.

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http://www.onelesshiker.com
http://www.twitch.tv/1horsepower

So my buddy dropped off my new PC today. I must say the difference is HUGE. The frame rate is spotless now. No more clipping. My Powertap is due back from Saris tomorrow as well so I can ditch zPower (even though it seems pretty accurate now) ... I am thoroughly enjoying this software on a daily basis. Hope to see everyone out there.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

warwicke36 wrote:

So my buddy dropped off my new PC today. I must say the difference is HUGE. The frame rate is spotless now. No more clipping. My Powertap is due back from Saris tomorrow as well so I can ditch zPower (even though it seems pretty accurate now) ... I am thoroughly enjoying this software on a daily basis. Hope to see everyone out there.

Should've just built one yourself. Are you incompetent ;)

I can't read a spec sheet [/Pink]

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Ha. Have fun racking up the PR's in the 10-15 minutes it takes for your fluid trainer to warm up and match the guesstimate of power. Zoom zoom!

These are my laptop specs, it's 2013. Where do I stand WRT the Min/Good/Best spec recommendations? I thought it was a high end compy when I bought it, but it's also the first computer I've had to buy in a long time and I'm not up to date with all the current stuff. Just wondering if I'm seeing low, medium or high graphics.

Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit
HD 1 TB
Processor 2.3 GHz Core i7-3615QM
RAM 8 GB DDR3
NVIDIA GeForce GT 650M 2GB Graphics Card Ram

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What did you use before Zwift to record your ride? Just a Garmin? Just keep using it and upload to GC like normal is my advice. The zwift and Garmin recorded rides match up to each other within a watt for me (speed obviously is different). So far I've been having both my Garmin 800 and laptop/Zwift linked to my PM/Cadence, Speed and HR and they both record without a hitch.

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I train on a Computrainer with Power and the data has to be transmitted out from the application to be captured on my Garmin. Without that I'd have to use my race wheels with PowerTap ANT+ broadcasting simultaneously to Laptop and Garmin. While this is possible it's less than ideal to use my race wheels on the trainer as well has have to calibrate my PT to match my CT.

Relay is the best way to get this done and it's a simple bit of code.

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Looks to me like you fall between the Recommended and Extreme specs on their website. Your specs are well above mine and I have no issues with quality/lags/etc. I do have a great internet connection but PC and Video specs are just standard mid level PC - I5 - 4gb ram - Intel graphics.

I'm trying to things installed on my wife's laptop to try it out. It has a much better Nividia graphics card but it is a slower processor - Centrino Dual core. So I'm not sure if it will be better or worse.

My Powertap repair is done and I got my wheel back today :) thanks for your concern

EDIT: I was 30 watts higher today with the Powertap than I was for my ride yesterday with zPower. It's all perception I know, but the effort levels were pretty similar. I am willing to concede I probably had a bit of "new toy power" today but definitely not 30 watts/avg worth. I estimate 20-25 watts low with zPower for my setup. I did the same thing I always do in regard to setup. 3.5 turns on the knob of the K.K. ... same tire as before, pumped to 100psi. Since it was a different wheel, there is a possibility for slightly different rolling resistance. The wheels do measure the same I.D. and O.D. so there shouldn't be a ton of difference.

Anyways, It's cool zwift island is growing. Glad there are some people here out there. Happy Zwifting.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Pretty sure I see you out there a bunch when I am on. You're a strong rider. Were you on tonight between 4-5ish?

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

West coast here, i rode for an hour at lunch today yeah (12-1p)

I generally do 3 one-hour rides mid week and then a 3hr ride on sundays.

Nice, east coast here so 4-5ish for me.

J. Doughty on the Island

Probably see you there soon.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I downloaded the software but can't get it to open without an error. Anyone else run into this issue. The requirements say is needs a pretty robust graphics card. I have an Intel HD Graphics card. Could that be the issue. What would be the cheapest card i could get if i needed to upgrade. I don't really know squat about graphics cards.

They have an FAQ about video card driver updating. Likely your video cards drivers are out of date. You can send them an error log report. You should send them a DxDiag report as well. Their website support page explains how to do this. Ultimately go to the manufacturer of your pc or laptop and go to their downloads section for your unit. Download the newest drivers. Make sure you get 32 or 64 bit depending on your setup. Hope this helps.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'm using a Intel HD Graphic card on an I3 Quad core Lenovo desktop. No issues for me. So I think your Graphics card should be OK. Like already recommended - submit a ticket and/or update your drivers and make sure everything is up to date (windows update).

I wanted to do the same comparison with my Quarq yesterday. I have bot zwift and my Garmin recording with a rear wheel sensor. I tried to unpair the quarq from Zwift to use Zpower (I have a KK road machine/RR), and made sure the speed and cadence (read from the quarq) picked up. Zwift saw my cadence, but power stayed at zero and I didn't move even though my speed was paired and working (evident by my Garmin picking up speed).

Do I need to do anything for Zpower set-up (e.g. tell it I have a KK)? I couldn't find anything/where to do that. Just thought it would be interesting to compare the Zpower to quarq power.

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Here is what I did. Since I am unable to log into Zwift on 2 separate computers, without 2 separate beta invites I had to work around it a bit to compare data. Sorry if this gets a bit confusing but I will try my best to explain my process.

1. I ran a comparison of zPower to Trainer Roads virtual power at around 200avg (on TR). I had Trainer Road and Zwift running simultaneously and recording both from my garmin speed cadence sensor, using 2 separate ANT sticks.
2. I compared the avg. wattage numbers after an hour long ride and found zwift to be 25 watts lower than T.R. ( at least at that specific wattage with my specific setup, Kurt Kinetic, Conti GP4000sii, 100psi, 3.5 turns of the knob) I should mention Zwift's zPower is ever changing and it HAS been updated since I ran my test. It appears much better now than before.

What I want to do now that I have my Powertap back is 2 things. Run Trainer Road on my laptop with Virtual Power at the same time as running Zwift on my PC with my Powertap. That will give me an idea of how accurate my Trainer Road numbers from the last few months were (really need to redo an FTP test but I am procrastinating.) Then after doing that I want to do the reverse. Run Trainer Road with my Powertap and run Zwift with my Speed Cadence sensor. That will tell me how far off Zwift's zPower is. Again all of this only really applies to MY setup. If you have a different whee/tire, or inflation psi, or trainer all of this means nothing.

To answer your question about entering a specific trainer, YES you do have to. When you Search for garmin speed/cadence in Zwifts ANT devices screen ... wait until it finds the spd/cad sensor then from that screen it will list 3 trainers (as of now) select Kurt Kinetic. Then you will be riding with zPower. You will have to disable you powermeter from that menu too. When you start riding in Zwift if there is still a lightning bolt next to your watts/kg next to your name then you are still reading from the powermeter.

Let me know what you find. I find comparing different setups of virtual power to powermeters interesting.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Cool, thanks, it must be that last step of choosing the trainer that I'm not doing. I don't remember seeing it, but my speed/cadence has always been synced, I didn't open the search option for it. I'll try again tonight for my easy spin.

I don't use TR, so can't do anything with their virtual power. I do wonder if Zwift accounts for the couple percent difference in crank/pedal power vs PT power.

I know I've seen some of you guys out there. J Siegel is my name. I usually just put Zwift on off to the side and watch TV and do my intervals. When I have a little freedom I go for the climbs or sprints. Never really tried to stick with a group, though my longer intervals sometimes make me end up in one and recognize some of the names in this thread.

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Nice, I'm pretty sure I have seen you out there. It's weird when I log on I forget everyone's name. I usually see many of the same names when I am on.

It is really easy to back out of the screen where you select your trainer, I did it 2 times the first time I tried to get the game going. It had the same result as you. You start pedaling and nothing happens. Go back in and just go through the screens slowly and you'll see it.

I just downloaded the Zwift android app yesterday. It's pretty cool. From any location you can see who is riding. Then when you are connected to the same Wifi as your Zwift computer, when you start moving in Zwift that screen changes to an in game screen. That gives you Metrics and the ability to wave and stuff to other rides as you drop them.

I can see setting up some group rides for sure. I think it would have to be like local group rides. Maybe an A, B, and C group. Something like 4+ w/kg, 3+w/kg, and 2+ w/kg or something like that. Otherwise when you get to the back side of the island and some climbing people will drop like flies. Just a thought, as I would really like to try a ride drafting more than just 1 other person. FWIW I have only drafted someone effectively for about a lap and a half. We separated at the hill and then regrouped at the descent. We had about a .4 w/kg discrepancy, and it seemed to work well. I was doing a 2 hour ride last night and keeping fairly constant power, the pull was unintentional but just happened due to logistics/timing. It definitely seems easier to draft/pull with a good computer setup and a powermeter. Because I got my new PC and my Powermeter within a day of each other it's hard for me to tell which is more important. I think a good internet connection plays a role as well. Before I found myself doing a lot of leapfrogging, but now with two people riding at steady power it was pretty easy.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

So Zwift shows you who has real power and who has virtual with a lightning bolt? never noticed that. Does strava, or do they think everyone has real power? Might highlight some fishy looking rides, e.g.https://www.strava.com/...14424?filter=overall. KOM did 474 watts for over 21 min and 161 HR? I'm suspicious! But maybe he's just a super stud, idk.

yeah, the app is cool, I jumped on the iOS invite so I've been using that beta too. I check every once and awhile to see if I spot any pros (while not riding). I've "ridden" with King, Ten Dams and Evelyn Stevens. Still searching for Jens.

One thing that is a little frustrating I've noticed is how the leaderboards are unique to each person. I may take a sprint or KOM, but that's only compared to efforts after I joined (I believe...the leaderboards always look empty, especially the Orange one, my first lap). So it might be that I think I took it, but no one else sees me in the lead (or vice versa, people may see me as the leader when I don't). At least that's my understanding of how it works.

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Or Better Yet Bluetooth .. Speed and Cadence

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Only Good Days and Great Days

If you upload the ride from the .fit or whatever zwift saves it will have power data. As far as strava is concerned that means you had power and will put a lightening bolt in the KOM data.

If it were just a regular street strava segment power with no bolt would mean their estimated info based on your weight and type of bike you were on for the ride and a lightening bolt for the people who had real power meters.

Basically can't go by the lightening bolt in strava for any zwift ride.




Used it last friday for the first time when I only had about 30 minutes and couldn't fit in my scheduled TR ride. Not bad, didn't love it, would only use it again if I setup dual ant+ sticks and can do a structured workout while also using it. Stand alone not so much my thing, may just set it up for the GF to use with virtual power since she mentioned that she liked having some structure on the exercise bikes at the gym vs nothing on the trainer at home.


My one suggestion would be throw in some sort of warmup mode. I was thinking about it the whole time I was using it that it sort of takes a ton of restraint to not just get into it. If there was way to be in the game but it not having you on the loop, like a staging area off to the side where you are virtually on a trainer, like you might do before a crit or a TT. You can see the feed of who is there, watch people go around, get warmed up waiting for a friend etc. It could then still give you some virtual power data and include all your information in the fit file for tracking purposes.

Zwift Strava segments are pretty much meaningless. Between the virtual power and the fact that people can put any rider weight they want in their options field, it can't be trusted. So just ride for yourself and don't worry about the Strava KOM results. I've seen riders in the game that have held 10 to 11 w/kg for minutes at a time.

I totally agree. KOM hunting and leader boards don't matter to me at all.

Mrtopher. I will say that initially i found it hard not to go for it all the time with this app.too. I have logged over 300 miles on it now and find that feeling the need to compete all the time fades quickly if you are structured workout minded. I too sync trainer road to be able to do interval workouts and the like.

I think it lends itself very well to rides over 45 minutes. I can only do islagiatt...or other long TR rides so.many times before I get bored of just looking at a blue graph or sufferfest video I've seen countless times. The ability to do both at the same time is great... and with Zwift workouts coming it will all be integrated which is great.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Yes Zwift shows you who is virtual power and who is real power by the lightning bolt. Mrtopher is correct that Strava and the like don't know the difference.

In regards to cheating in the game. It can be done with virtual power, weight, and power meter calibration. It is something that is inherent to the nature of this kind of game (TdG has the same issues). I don't see any way to rectify it, and to me, I am willing to accept it. I won't cheat in real life, I won't cheat in the game, and if others choose to that's their own self esteem issue.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Ok, so I did the first round of testing. I tested Trainer Road's virtual power to that of my powertap. The results were good for trainer road. I probably should have done Zwifts first considering this is a Zwift thread... but I didn't ... I am going to duplicate the test later once my trainer has fully cooled down to keep test protocol the same. I understand that this is not a perfect test. To better test I would have done individual incremental intervals starting at low wattage and gradually increasing (and potentially descending again to make sure temp. drift wasn't a big issue.) But this was meant to be a simple test to compare Avg. wattage.

EDIT: Here is a link to the video I took about 12 minutes in, the trainer was warmed up. While the numbers don't always match the wings back and forth were presumably pretty close to equaling out. You can see trainer road is set horizontally across the bottom of the screen showing virtual power on the left hand side. http://tinypic.com/...amp;s=8#.VNP5Yi4bJVc

Setup: Simultaneously run Zwift and T.R. Using 2 ANT+ sticks

T.R. set to virtual power using Kurt Kinetic road machine. 100psi in Continental GP4000sii tire, 3.5 turns on resistance knob ...





Zwift set to Powertap G3 :




Here are the results

Trainer Road Avg. (virtual) Power 211 vs. Zwift Avg. Power 209 (powertap)


I did notice some slight discrepancy in power as the trainer warmed up. (virtual power was low) ... I had planned on doing a full hour but zwift's server went down, and I thought it was my internet connection. I will do the same 25 minute in my next test. I did take 3 videos and a few pics of my setup I will upload in a minute and add to this post.


Zwift via Powertap:



Trainer Road via virtual Power:

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Ok, did my Zpower vs quarq test on a KK R&R. i'm not familiar with virtual power protocol since I've never used it, but i did my normal trainer set up - trainer specific tire, enough tension so the wheel doesn't slip when i jerk spin the wheel with my hand hard, about 2.5 turns past first contact, maybe 2.25. ride was recovery, but i threw 2 short efforts to see a high end comparison. I used strava for the comparison.

garmin/Quarq
avg: 188
Norm: 203
Max: 1013

zPower
avg: 186
norm: 202
max: 989

HR averaged 119 for both, so doesn't seem like either lost any significant amount of data.

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So I've been waiting since November, checking every single day, for my invite. Finally got it tonight and was thrilled. Downloaded the program, let it update for 10 minutes. Then I go to start it and it doesn't work several times.

Turns out I don't have the minimum requirements for the graphics. I wasn't far off either looking at a chart.

Ain't that a real kick in the nuts?

Have you tried sending them a report including a DxDiag report? It's likely that updating your video card drivers will fix the issue.

Edit. I should note. I had the same issue as you. Did what I listed above
And was able to run the app on my laptop. The frame rate wasn't great but it worked and the graphics were still great.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

What exactly is a DxDiag report? And should I just submit a ticket to them with that info?

Yes. Go to the windows symbol on the bottom left of your pc screen. In the search or run box enter DxDiag and hit enter
It will run a report. Hit save all information on that box. Save the file and send it with your ticket.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'll get right on that now. Thanks for letting me know I could do that.

Let's hope it works!

Thats cool so you had really similar results as I did! I am curious if the results are the same across the range of watts from low to high. When I get bored I want to try and do some 3 minute intervals starting at say 140 watts going up by 20 watts at a time and seeing if it is even across the board or if we just happened to get good results due to the fact that we were both near the 200 watt range.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

No problem. While you are waiting for a reply. You can go to the manufacturer of your laptop/pc's website. Go to the download section for you specific model. Then download updated drivers if they exist. It is important to know if you are running 32 or 64 bit windows as they will have different drivers. You can check to see if the drivers you have are up to date by looking at the video section of that DxDiag report. If the latest ones listed on the manufacturers website are what appear in your report you are likely out of luck. Make sure it also lists Direct X 11.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I am on DirectX 11 so I'm good there.

Currently downloading a graphics driver that Intel recommended after auto-detecting what I have now. I think I'm in luck but we'll see.

Great, best of luck.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I'm up and running! Thank you for all the help, wouldn't have had a clue what to do without you.

I'll have to get a ride in tomorrow after school.

Hrm, when you got your invite email did it not mention driver updates? I've not seen the latest one we're sending out but I thought we'd put that in there weeks ago.

Sometime this spring I'll have time to go back and figure out all the strange issues on "old" drivers so the experience is smoother, but right now on machines that are a bit older you'll almost always have to update drivers. It's not totally atypical of PC gaming, and bigger games even get drivers specifically released to fix issues just for them.

There's learning on both sides of the fence here, so I'm glad we're having this extended beta. :)

It did give me a link to the FAQ's, which eventually led to the information about updating drivers. I probably should have checked that first.

I've finally got around to using it after last weeks trainer rides for ToS. Its a nice change from a structured workout,

user name is Jmatheusik

I think i'm going to bring a better TV into my bike room that hooks up with the computer.

Did another ride last night and was noticing strange watts/kg for myself like many have mentioned they noticed for others. Doing about 80% effort was showing 4 w/kg which I'm not currently doing at 100%... almost but not quite.

Logged into my online profile after and none of my height/weight info had saved.

So my guess would be that many people you see with wacky readings may simply just have not entered it, not sure what the default weight it was using for me (maybe I'll calculate later) quick math says probably about 150lbs.


Doesn't seem to be something you can edit in the program itself, only saw a place to do it online so possibility people are just not realizing they need to go there to fix it.

This is a good point. You do have to manually go in and set it. I didn't know that either until after my first ride. I am 150lbs so maybe that's why I didn't notice a huge watt/kg difference after changing it.

I wonder how many people on the island haven't set that info. It would certainly be nice if that info was a little easier to access as it does make a major difference. It would also be nice if that info was displayed next to the rider.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Just did my first ride.

I don't have a powermeter. I'm using my TravelTrac Comp Fluid and an ANT+ speed sensor. Is there a certain amount of times I should turn the knob?

At first I only did it until it was contacting (usually don't do that but just wanted to test on Zwift) and with minimal effort I was up to 40mph going uphill in the game. I then turned it 1.5 times after contact with the tire and it seemed about right based on my ability level. However, is there actually a recommended amount of turns/contact with the tire?

Someone could decide they don't want the wheel to touch and cruise along at 50mph if they so please with the classic trainers.

Is that a supported trainer? I don't recall seeing it on the list last time I used zPower. Anyways, no they don't list tire psi, amount of turns, or anything like that, yet. It should be giving a wheel slip message and shutting your down if it detects unnatural acceleration. I would say either you entered a different trainer than you are using. Or you are encountering serious wheel slip. Crank it down until it doesn't slip even in a massive sprint. Up the big hill I think I am doing like 7mph at 280 watts or so (that's a total guess based on memory) ... what does it say your Avg. watts are for your total ride?


EDIT: On my ride today 257 watts for "Zwift Island KOM" 14.8mph

.... the lower speeds come into play in the 10% incline parts, is what I was thinking of.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Yup, they added it not too long ago. Performance Travel Trac Comp Fluid. After I adjusted the wheel it seemed to be giving me accurate numbers. Says 194 average watts for my 10 minute ride.

I might have worded it wrongly.

If two people have the exact same classic trainer and are using zPower, with the exact same tire pressure...
Rider A only turns the knob so the tire is just contacting.
Rider B turns the knob 3 times after contact with the tire.

Won't Rider A be able to go much faster because of the higher wheel speed?

Presumably somewhat faster. The rolling resistances would be different, how much I have no idea. Fir right now, since there are a lot of factors that are affecting people performance on Zwift i.e. rider weight input, power vs. virtual power, KIKR performance issues (and their own inherent drift issue) ... your best bet is to use the same setup every time. If you encounter no wheel slippage age say 3 turns. Then do 3 turns every time. Use the same PSI in the tire etc.. eliminate variables.

On a side note. Now is a good time to log in to the website. http://www.zwift.com and enter you height and weight.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

A friend is now the Mayor of Swift. I just signed up and have been wait listed. Flashing back to college.....

Century group ride on 2-14th. Wheels roll at 7am EST at "Just Ride" location. You will get a virtual centurion jersey when you complete a metric or century (according to Zwift's FB page). For more group rides, join: https://www.facebook.com/groups/zwiftriders

Really want to do this. Seems like a great way to get divorced on valentines day... decisions decisions.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

lmao ^This!!

I got talked into it with a couple guys I zwift with regularly.... I'll set a time for couples therapy on Monday.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Did the full century with a group of really nice and strong riders. Thanks for all the laughs guys. Here we are at the end of our 100 mile trainer ride :)

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Nice job guys. I think we had at least 8 people do centuries on Saturday, and a few more on Sunday and Friday. We really had fun watching you guys put in the hours, and hope to see some of you sporting your Zwift 'Black Edition' centuries jerseys on the island.

Jon

Thanks Jon! That ride was an absolute blast. From the beginning with everyone sporting the bumble bee jerseys and making terrible puns, to the last few miles where people came together to finish in small groups. The community on Zwift is very strong. I have made some great friends, and we now schedule rides together on days that make sense like recovery days or say Century rides :) ...

I will say I do love my new Century Rider kit. Do we get to keep them when the full version is released?! Do we get to keep our stats as well? Please say yes.



Here's an action shot of the beginning of the century.... It started off like a crit. Very fast. Very much trying not to get dropped. 10- 20 bad puns about wearing Bee Jerseys.





And now, we get to ride the island in style as the MIB




Thanks again Jon, Eric and the rest of the crew ...

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Championship meets / taper just ended for swim season and I had a day off from school today because of snow so I decided to get my first real ride in.

50 minutes and it was awesome. Jumped in with Lawson Craddock for 15-20 minutes and on my third attempt, was able to snag the polka dot jersey! I'm really liking how great this software is already. Excited to see where it's going in the future.

I do need to figure out the use of power-ups though. I should have been saving certain ones for the sprints and certain ones for the climbs. Didn't use any of them, really. Just wasted them. I didn't realize that you had to get rid of a current power-up before gaining a new one at a checkpoint.

Hopped on for the first time last night. Just did a 30min ride to check it out. Don't think it is quite there yet, but I see a ton of upside. I'd pay for a mtb'ing version. I'd get them video and data from every trail in the SE if they did a mtb version!

This is awesome. Can't wait to receive my invite! This will make the trainer so much better.

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"You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson

The century was a great ride. I was there for the first 80. (c.schumm). I have been doing the killer bee rides for about a month. Great way to get some good trainer base miles. Did a metric with a few of the guys on Monday morning too. I still haven't got a chance to get the black Jersey. I have to settle for grey for now.

Seeing as though several people have ridden with pros already, including myself, how long until someone becomes the biggest troll in Zwift and makes their name "L. Armstrong"

me too, hope to get an invite soon.

All video game platforms have this virtual reality multiplayer stuff down pat now,
just a matter of time before bike trainer software catches up

Hassard/Warwick, great photos! The shot of the 3 guys in the black kit is pretty cool, doubt that will happen very often considering how hard those jerseys are to get. Lawson Craddock had a bad crash in the Tour down under so he's relegated to trainer time right now, and some of that happens to be on Zwift.

There's nothing stopping Lawrence or Larry (or even Lance) Armstrong from joining Zwift, however the international Pro cyclists are hand verified and have the orange 'pro' jersey icon next to their name - probably similar to how Strava works with their pro badges.

Jon

You guys can PM me your configuration if you want and I can look into it. The people with supported hardware get invites within 24 hours now.

Got the invite a couple weeks ago, but couldn't get it to work. They did a fine job of going thru the trouble shooting but in the end my computer wouldn't support the game. The computer is four yrs old granted but it was purchased as a gamer w/i7 processor. I was disappointed but oh well. I bought a macbook :-) Hope they write it for a mac soon as it looks fun.

In regards to the mobile app, if we're already up and running normally on a PC, can we request another invite to get the iOS mobile app? I dont think I originally put that I had an iPhone or iPad with the original invite request.

I currently have an iPhone 4S and and iPad Mini 2.

Thanks,
Conor

Will there be the possibility of steering in the future ? This would be more applicable to racing or going over varying terrain.

If so I gather a third party device to go on handle bars might be required, probably ant+ wireless to make things easier.

IOS app invites are full. Apple only lets us send out 1000 ios beta invites. The app is going through approval for the app store now and then anybody can grab it.

Yeah, I've actually had steering in Zwift for a few years now using custom built hardware and a mobile app. How we will get it into the users hands remains to be seen, but it's in the works.

How do you change the camera angle in Zwift?

The numbers 1-9 on your keyboard will change the camera angle. After pressing one of those, if you hit 0, that will give you an additional panoramic view.

There's already a pretty huge troll there in the form of A. Nus. He's good too...

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My laptop setup has been giving me silky smooth zwift rides!

Intel Core i7-4800MQ CPU @ 2.7gHz
32gb RAM
Nvidia Quadro K2100M (2Gb)

I tried streaming the output from my laptop to my TV using Chromecast, and I was getting all kinds of dropped frames on the TV. I think I'll go for a hard-wired connection next time I ride.

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Has any consideration been given to writing an app to reside on the Xbox One? Considering the universal platform for Windows 10 it might be something to look into.. Plus with it being my main media device it would simplify my whole life. :)

I would hope that setup would play it ;) You've still got about 28gb of Ram sitting there.

I suppose streaming is a bit hungrier though.

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My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com

Yeah, the limiting factor for me is the internet speed. I think I get somewhere around 25Mbps down/5 up.

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Mac user invites finally started to go out. Got mine this morning. Mac + KICKR + USB2 seemed to be the combo that got me in.

That begs the question... can I not use Bluetooth instead of USB2?

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

Found the answer to my question in there support section of their website. BT coming soon.

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

I'd prefer this as well...plenty of processing power, already connected to a big screen, and ethernet internet...

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Got the email that Mac invites were going out. Mac + Jet Fluid Pro/Quarq hasn't gotten me an invite yet

I got in right away with nothing really special. ANT+ Powermeter, Windows, Cycleops Trainer. Are they starting to open it up to more people now?

It's just being released for those of us on Mac OS X

Guys, thanks for the patience. I think we'll open the taps on the OSX invites this week. Powermeter people will almost certainly be in the first batches. We've had over 10,000 miles logged so far by beta testers on the Mac version and while it's not perfect it's pretty solid for beta.

Do you have a list of the unlockables or achievements available somewhere or do we have to toil until we happen to stumble across the achievements?

I got one the other day for Sprint power output but it'd be nice to have some goals to aim for...

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Just wanted to say....Zwift is freaking awesome. It makes me want to go get on the trainer and ride, rather than dreading it. Great job!!!

Spot

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Taco cat spelled backwards is....taco cat.

I actually posted about this asking the same thing in the "Zwift Riders" Facebook group. Mostly everyone said that it's just about leveling up (logging more miles) and some jerseys/wheels come with the more miles. Others mentioned that there's various unlockables for breaking certain wattage numbers, certain speed barriers, etc.

Many agreed that they prefer the surprise factor but I personally would also like to have a list of the unlockables. There's so many jerseys, bikes, and wheels that I have absolutely no clue what it takes to attain them.

Just got my invite last night. It didn't specify Mac or PC, but my Macbook Pro will run the software.

I'm thinking it may be time for an upgrade. I've been itchin to build a gaming PC for a while now anyway.

Anyone else see Taylor Phinney kicking around on zwift yesterday? I did a first test run on the Mac after using it on the PC. It ran great though my ride file got split into 4 separate files. I have been a beta tester since the beginning and have been very impressed with the progress. Obviously some course variety (not just same course backwards would be better for training) but it will come I'm sure.

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Founder: BestBikeSplit
Amazonian

See I don't even know how to get on the course backwards..

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It was automatic for me. Yesterday for some reason it was reversed. Maybe they just switch it up every couple of days.

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Founder: BestBikeSplit
Amazonian

I was on last night and that was the same direction I've always had, so maybe I have just always ridden it in reverse? The direction I have always gone the last 300m to the finish is in between the buildings (counterclockwise around the island). Is that the normal or reverse direction?

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Ah it used to be clockwise. So the sprint was off the flat as opposed to off the downhill.

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Founder: BestBikeSplit
Amazonian

everyone is going CCW right now. I saw on another forum that the last update they pushed through switched the direction (about a week ago?) and the only reason people woudl be going CW right now is if they started the program somehow without it completing the update first.

I need a faster GPU, so my machine always has troubles going around corners at high speed. The bummer is that it happens in the CCW direction right before the start of the green jersey zone.

We have a fix for this and it was supposed to go out last week, but showed some issues so I pulled it. Hopefully in the next update the lower end machines will steer a bit nicer.

Thanks!

Do you need people to take out tickets for issues like that?

EDIT because I'm stupid and answered my own question

Wow. Got my Mac invite today. Got it set up tonight and went for a 5 minute ride... I cant wait to get on in it the morning. Zwift is super cool! Keep up the great work guys.

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"You just gotta keep livin' man, L-I-V-I-N." - Wooderson

Also received my invite on Monday evening (Mac, Quarq). Got it set up last night and rode this morning for an hour or so. I had a blast. My only complaint was that it quickly turned my scheduled Z2 ride into a predominantly Z3/4 effort with sprints!

I just completed the metric century this past weekend and got my white jersey, now I'm eyeing the black. It would have never happened without Zwift. I love leveling up and being able to distinguish myself from other riders.

Jmx, any insight into the pricing model when Zwift is out of Beta? I hope you would consider a outright purchase like an app or video game with the ability to buy upgrades (new bikes, helmets, courses etc) or even entry into virtual races. Instead of a subscription base model. Either way, keep up the great work and thanks for giving me the opportunity to test your product.

You guys are making me jealous! I'm waiting for my invite (Mac, power2max). :(

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I just got my invite as well.

Thanks for being patient for the mac version. We really wanted to spend months getting some of the core issues resolved in the software before then porting it to mac. I think it was the right choice but I know it sucks for those that had to wait.

I suspect we'll send out another huge batch of mac invites tonight to people who have power meters, so cloy26, you're probably in today or tomorrow.

Once you guys get in, just keep in mind these are still early days. What is coming over the next couple of years is pretty exciting.

Jon

I'm in on a mac. YEAH!!

I'm in on a mac too. Waiting to get ANT key back from my buddy who's borrowing it. Looking forward to a nice group ride this weekend.

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Zen and the Art of Triathlon. Strava Workout Log
Interviews with Chris McCormack, Helle Frederikson, Angela Naeth, and many more.
http://www.zentriathlon.com

An hour on the trainer went by pretty quick this morning. Was expecting some sort of issue with it being in beta but worked great. Only thing I noticed on my Mac is the zwiftapp once opened the app icon turns into a terminal exec icon rather than zwift (has no affect on the game just the icon in dock).

Also hope this will be a single game purchase once finalized, however I'm thinking subscription would probably net more. At any rate I'm hooked and look forward to a lot of miles logged on the island. Need to find some people that set up group rides in the mornings, it was pretty quiet this morning.

Mac with powertap combo and got my invite today. Did a 'quick' one lap of the island and was dripping sweat. I can see how rides will likely not be just Z2 but really what's the point of Z2 anyway:-)

So after dinner I actually put riding clothes on and went and did three laps. I noticed what I hope is a mac beta issue- it is a total battery suck. Three laps of Zwift island drained my computer down to the red and I didn't even have that happen doing stage 8 of ToS with three Sufferfest video/Trainerroad sessions back to back.

I'm getting a little bored of the same loop :(. I know it's free and beta, and I can't complain -it has tonnes of potential, I'll be happy to pay for it when it's ready for release.

Pretty sure it will be subscription based only. I'm guessing they bank of folks forgetting to unsubscribe because I don't really use my trainer from sprint through fall, so I guess I'm good for $30 a year. It would probably take me 5 years of use to hit the $150 mark and who knows what else will be available in 5 years.

I have done 850 miles on Zwift island since the beginning of January. I did about 400 going clockwise and have since done another 450 or so Counter Clockwise, including a full 100 mile century ride a couple weekends ago. I am still not tired of the same course. Sure, I will enjoy the release of more areas to ride... but for me, there is always something to keep you having fun.

Recommendations to keep it extra entertaining....

Join Zwift Riders on facebook. There is where you will find Virtual Race and group ride information. There are a lot of these popping up now. Usually almost 1 every day. You can also use this to coordinate just a slow ride with friends if that suits your needs.

Do a full or metric century... trust me I never thought I'd spend 5 hours on a trainer... ever, in a single session. I did my century in 4:59 and it was awesome. About 8 of us completed it that day and got our nice 100mile black jerseys to wear on the island which is motivating all the time....

Start impromptu races, or group laps at speed. Find a pack of guys moving at about your tempo pace and ask if they want to make it interesting for a few laps. Put the hammer down, string out the group, climb hard, draft, try not to get dropped, etc... it really makes the time fly by. ( I was able to ride above my previous FTP by a 10 watts during a session like this) you never know what will happen and you will surely be impressed with yourself when you are done.



The more I use the software the more valuable I see it. Even in Beta form. I am able to stay disciplined and do recovery rides when I have to (this is the hardest damn ride to do by the way) ... endurance days are fun, and Tempo and Threshold days are just about as much fun as you can have on a trainer!

Note: this post isn't directed at you "mattvannus" just replied to you as it was relative to your post.

happy Zwifting, drop a line if you see me out there...

J. Doughty

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

+1, 980 miles on zwift in 30 days and not bored yet...done several metrics which I never do on a trainer, but it was a lot of fun with the group. also great to mix it up and do trainerroad simultaneously. I have trainerroad control my computrainer, and powermeter for zwift.

I have been on for a little more than a week. Really liking it so far and now being over in the UK and the "crap" weather it gives a good reason to stay in side and ride. Wish it would have been out last year when I was deployed, would have made passing time over there a lot better.

Really excited to see where they continue to take things, and really excited to see them roll out the upcoming workout mode!

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-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM

My guess is it will cost between 10 and 20 dollars a month, which seems to be the price point of most MMORPGs - which is where I would put this category wise.

That's great to hear it just worked. That's certainly what we're going for ;)

The pricing model isn't totally finalized, but we've publicly mentioned it'll be a subscription. It makes sense considering we have to continuously have server capacity for the active players and it simplifies the issues around piracy.

Hey, I'm right there with you. I don't think we ever actually expected this many people to be riding this 'test' map so much. I can tell you that we've been spending time on our map editor and we've got the sketches done for what the next world is, as well as a ton of artwork ready to go for it. Soon!

First ride on Zwift tonight, really liked it. Running it on an 11" Macbook Air bought in June 2013, with only 4 gb of ram. Ran smooth hooked up to my 32" TV monitor.

Jesus. Some "recovery" ride that turned out to be... #shutuplegs

And a zwift velodrome would be sick.

Also, gotta do something with the volume. I want to rock out to DMX when I hammer. yo.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

I was trying to figure out a way to mute it as well so I could have music playing. I couldn't find that option anywhere.

Just mute it using your mixer function on your PC. I have been able to do so, but I am using headphones....

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

If you are on Windows, you can click on the volume icon in your task tray (lower right), then click "Mixer", then you will be able to individually lower/mute the volume for Zwift. I listen to Pandora while I ride. Works great!

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"It doesn't get any easier, you just get faster" - Greg LeMond

Problem is I have the music playing on my PC as well. The mixer controls both the game and music audio levels. I guess I could play my music somewhere else but adding a mute function would be nice.

Oh...didn't know there was a Zwift thread here on ST. Been using it a few months, 70+ hours so far...

With Windows 7, the mixer will let you control the volume for each program...I have Zwift nearly muted....

Got my Mac invite early this week, sod's law I'm working away but home tonight to play!!

Did my first ride last night, 30 minutes. (On a MacBook Air with Kurt Kinetic)

So, one ride not really enough to make a decision. I have been using TrainerRoad for over 2 years now, and the key for me with TR are the workout plans and the ability to see the workout graph as you are doing it. I think TR is more of a race type system, which is great and has it's place, but is your Indoor ride time in the Winter best utilized with structured training plans or racing all the time.

The creators of Zwift have said they want to merge the multiplayer addictive nature of gaming, with the addictive competitive nature of cycling. I can see this becoming reality.

If I can ride sections of a GranFondo in the winter that I plan to actually ride in the summer, that's pretty good.

So, since I want my training to be structured at this point, not sure about Zwift at this stage for me. Which means I will be streaming it on my flat screen tomorrow ;-)

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Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike

I've ridden three times and already bored of the same loop, although the potential is huge.

Would like be to see courses with replicas of famous climbs, also would love to see it merge into online racing if you could think of a way to ensure people enter the correct weight, one guy sat on over 10w/kg for about 5 min in one of my rides. Perhaps do a Fitbit style electronic scale that pairs via ant+ that records two feet and weight before any 'official' Zwift races? Down the track though obviously....and another revenue stream ;)

There are too many ways for people to cheat for it to be defeatable:
-Speed/cadence users can unclamp their rear wheel slightly or entirely
-When weighing in with your official Zwift(TM)-branded weigh scale, you could support yourself on something else to reduce weight 10lbs
-You could purposely miscalibrate your powermeter
-You could ride with a kickr
-You could unclamp your wheel after calibrating with your CT
-You could calibrate your CT while the wheel is still cold

In the 2.5 years Tour de Giro has been running, I've seen 1-2 instances of actual, malicious, clearly-on-purpose cheating. Mostly it's people not getting their equipment set up properly or forgetting to update their weight if they're changing from a child to a parent or something. It seems nobody is a big enough loser to waste an hour of their life screwing with other cyclists.

What they could do (which we never had the time for at TdG) would be to pair with a bunch of CT studios so that competitors were "refereed" and have a tournament that way. We did have a couple 24-person rides at a local club's CT studio which were a ton of fun.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

Please spare yourself the boredom and forward me your login info!

I've been running Zwift since early Jan, I've used it on every ride since then. It sits on a laptop off to the side while I watch TV. 95% of my indoor workouts come with structure, so I'm not truly "Zwifting", I'm running it in the background. It's mildly amusing to look over at every little bit, I say hi to friends I see on there, I try to time one of my intervals with a Zwift hill, etc. I partly leave it on just so Zwift can get all the data they can get since it's a free beta, even though I'm not actually using the software for my ride.

Buuuuuuut, I have done a few hard group rides in Zwift. That's when it takes over my TV and is what I watch. Group rides play into my summer training plan, so they can play into my winter one as well I figure (sometimes my goal is just 130 TSS for the day, or something like that, so a group ride fits nicely to make that workout bearable). Group rides on Zwift have been fun and help accomplish my training goal. Would I pay $10/month for that capability over the winter (and only really use it ~1 a week)...IDK yet. Certainly won't touch it once I can ride outside again.

I pretty much agree with you, after the novelty wears off (perhaps this will take longer with new courses), unless my goal is a ride interacting with people, Zwift is not for me. But for that once a week that I want to just attack a group ride...it has been a lot of fun and I can see the value of using over the winter. I'm a cyclist not a triathlete, FWIW.


Edited to make me seem like less of a grammatical imbecile.

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Powered by Dalzell Coaching

Agreed w/ regard to the once a week fun factor.

It's premature to say, but I am much more geared toward TR due to the simplicity, meat and potatoes this is your interval, now hit it. But Zwift definitely has the fun factor that pounding out intervals on TR doesn't really have. hah.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

running the beta on a mac and grateful to have the opportunity to beta. I've fired it up a couple of times, but it doesn't really grab me to be honest. the combo of sufferfest and trainerroad is much more compelling. maybe if there were scheduled races or the ability to do structured workouts it would be more interesting. I'm not sure whether zwift is supposed to be a video game or a serious training tool.

There are structured workouts coming, FWIW. When Zwift was downloading, that was one of the points it stated they will be adding in the full version.

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Got my invite on Wednesday (Mac, dumb trainer, Quarq) and rode an hour last night. I just did my regular workout for the most part with 3 x 10:00 @ Z3 as I got the feel of the course and such. Anyway, overall I liked it but I noticed a few times my power would drop to zero as I was still pedaling. I wasn't sure if it was an app issue or an issue with my ant+ device but the battery in my power meter is less than a week old so pretty sure thats not it. I wasn't running my garmin at the same time, but that will be my plan the next time to see how the two files compare. Anyway, anyone else experience this?

The star represents the portion of the ride where it happened the most frequent and below I zoomed in to that 2:00 / 3:00 section.

So I'm using the mac client and kickr. Tried it with TR the other night and it looked like TR was controlling my kickr and Zwift was just reading the data transmitted by the kickr. Otherwise, I'm assuming that zwift can "control" the resistance of the kickr and have it correlate to the varying grades on the island? Will try it again sometime soon whenever I get power back. Stupid snow.

Most zwifters have plugged their ant+ dongle into a usb extension cable to get it away from their computer and closer to their power meter.

This eliminated all drops for me, and is likely a combination of getting it closer to the power meter and further from the interference of my wireless internet in my computer.

I never saw any garmin power drops when Zwift saw drops, but like I said, the extension fixed it for me (and is mentioned often in the Zwift help forums)

JP
(J. Miller on zwift)

Zwift does fully support the Kickr and varies the resistance based on grade. Do you use 2 ANT+ usb dongles? One controlled by TR, the other by Zwift? I have a two ANT+ set up in place for my Cycleops Powerbeam Pro trainer. TR is set up to relay and Zwift picks up the TR data via the 2nd ANT+. Zwift currently does not control the resistance on the PBP - bummer!

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tinman

Was using TR on iOS BT to control kickr and ant+ dongle to pick up kickr data for zwift. Guess I'll just try it without TR running to see how it works out.

It just needs to be part of the actual program and not something you need to log in separately to the website to do. Like when you are syncing your devices maybe a weight box. Sure that could mean more people change it but I was one of the people doing a few rides with a wacky watts/kg, not because I tried but because I didn't know that you had to go to the website profile to make sure it was correct.

Maybe 10 years ago. Subscription based MMO's have been largely relegated by free to play or freemium models. Recent attempts by large publishers to cling to subscription models have largely flopped, TES Online often being cited as the most recent example of a "disaster" attributed almost entirely to it's subscription model until it eventually caved and dropped the subscription.

None of this is to say that I think Zwift won't be subscription based, obviously it will be. This a niche product and I doubt there are the numbers to support a freemium model, nor quite enough competition in the market place to drive them that. However, if they go as high as $20 a month I think it will be a huge flop. I love the software but I've talked to a lot of people who still seem hesitant to switch from TrainerRoad and paying twice as much certainly will not convince them.

At or under $10 would make it a no brainer, but I think they could safely push to to somewhere around $12.99/mo where it sounds close enough to TrainerRoad to not make people simply say screw it and stick with what they have while also covering for what I can only assume is higher overhead than TR.