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New Tacx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers
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Tacx just announced the Neo Smart trainer. Looks to be very similar to the Wahoo Kickr. I've been thinking about getting a trainer and the Wahoo Kickr was my top choice. The Neo Smart is giving me second thoughts. I like the fact the Neo Smart is able to simulate downhills with the built in motor, if I'm understanding the hype correctly. Any thoughts comments?
Last edited by: scrappy_dude: Sep 6, 15 10:26
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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scrappy_dude wrote:
Tracx just announced the Neo Smart trainer. Looks to be very similar to the Wahoo Kickr. I've been thinking about getting a trainer and the Wahoo Kickr was my top choice. The Neo Smart is giving me second thoughts. I like the fact the Neo Smart is able to simulate downhills with the built in motor, if I'm understanding the hype correctly. Any thoughts comments?


It does look like an awesome trainer. Maybe DC Rainmaker will review it. Also, it's Tacx not Tracx :)

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Last edited by: BryanD: Aug 20, 15 20:10
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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I'm very interested in people's thoughts about this too.
I'm also close to pulling the trigger on a Kickr but wondering whether perhaps it's worth waiting for/spending more on the Neo.

I don't care much about the pedalling downhill capability.

The perceived advantages of the Neo to me are:
1. Quiet
2. Rocking action
3. 'True direct drive' may mean higher accuracy, less drift, longer wearing

The perceived disadvantages of the Neo to me:
1. Relatively unproven - may have teething problems with software rtf
2. Relatively unproven - may turn out to have other issues

Samuel Arthur Medway
Perth, Western Australia
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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I'e had a KICKR since it was first released in early-2013. I love the thing... as much as you can love a trainer. I plan on buying the Tacx Neo Smart though and giving it a try.

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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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The true cost seems problematic. Does the Neo Smart come with the Advanced 4 software and/or do you need the Upgrade Smart? I have some Tacx videos and they are smartly done, but expensive. With Trainer Road, Zwift, and so many other options, what, other than the hardware, makes this a sensible upgrade? Ultimately, this sort of training device must translate into improved performance/enjoyability, or, at least, keep me from getting worse than I already am.

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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They also claim that it will operate like a standard fluid trainer when in a completely unpowered mode.
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Have they provided enough information to know if you can mount a MTB?

KQ strategy - Outlive the competition
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
The true cost seems problematic. Does the Neo Smart come with the Advanced 4 software and/or do you need the Upgrade Smart? I have some Tacx videos and they are smartly done, but expensive. With Trainer Road, Zwift, and so many other options, what, other than the hardware, makes this a sensible upgrade? Ultimately, this sort of training device must translate into improved performance/enjoyability, or, at least, keep me from getting worse than I already am.

-Robert

There's some serious translation issues on their software page, but it looks like this thing supports or can be upgraded to support ANT+ FE-C (the latest controllable equipment spec), which means most apps will be able to talk to it: http://www.tacx.com/...ners/neo-smart#tab_3

STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [AHare] [ In reply to ]
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Tacx has indicated the Neo will be released with support for ANT+ FE-C already in the firmware. I think Neo 'one-ups' the Kickr in that the direct drive feature requires no spin-down and when plugged into the home electrical supply, if the application being used supports it, the Neo will power the rear wheel on downhills such as in Tacx Real Life Video's or GPS rides. It would be nice to know if the Neo will broadcast speed and cadence data the companies other SMART trainers do as the design makes it more difficult to use an existing ANT+ speed sensor (typically mounted on the rear non-drive side stay) for recording speed data when recording with a cycle computer.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Aug 21, 15 6:55
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [AHare] [ In reply to ]
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Right. Their marketing is not clear. Probably a language issue, but if they want to sell internationally, they should consider better communication, including good English, or if they really want snob appeal, FRENCH!

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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It certainly appears compelling, but it's pretty hard to compare a product that doesn't actually exist yet.

If the price of the Neo doesn't scare you off (~1600 based off of europe pre-orders) and you don't need/want a smart trainer right away it's probably worth waiting out actual comprehensive reviews. In the mean time, I'd keep your eyes open for deals on the Kickr in the holiday build up. At MSRP for both maybe the Neo will be worth the extra cost, but I suspect one will be available at discount this year and the other will most certainly not.
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [tgarson] [ In reply to ]
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tgarson wrote:
If the price of the Neo doesn't scare you off (~1600 based off of europe pre-orders

Looks like Bike24 in Germany is offering pre-orders for the Tacx NEO Smart T2800 Cycletrainer for only 1099 ($1251.54)

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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Except, they don't tell you what you get! Or what else you might need or want. Tacx is bad about the "add-ons"....

-Robert

"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Robert] [ In reply to ]
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Robert wrote:
Except, they don't tell you what you get! Or what else you might need or want. Tacx is bad about the "add-ons"....
Tacx's strategy for the SMART trainers has been pretty straight forward in that what you are purchasing is the trainer which includes the motorbrake, stand, and a front wheel support. Additional accessories available for purchase separately would include a handlebar clip on holder contraption for a tablet, the Upgrade SMART T2990 which is really only necessary if you want to use the trainer with Tacx's desktop software, and a Tacx steering unit for use in the Tacx VR worlds. The upgrade SMART kit includes a Tacx ANT+ powered USB antenna, ANT+ handle bar controller (from iGenius), and TTS Advanced. If all you want to do is use a SMART trainer with 3rd party FE-C compatible apps like Zwift or Trainer Road, then I think all that is required is device that is ANT+ capable or desktop PC with an ANT+ USB antenna.


¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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ms6073 wrote:
Robert wrote:
If all you want to do is use a SMART trainer with 3rd party FE-C compatible apps like Zwift or Trainer Road, then I think all that is required is device that is ANT+ capable or desktop PC with an ANT+ USB antenna.

I have a Tacx Bushido Smart. I have used both Trainer Road and Zwift. As mentioned all you need is a computer with Ant+ dongle. Both programs will control the Tacx Smart trainer. I would add an extension usb cable to get a better signal.
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [Tri-Mot] [ In reply to ]
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Tri-Mot wrote:
As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.

My experience as well (I owned 2 Bushido trainers in the past): Bushido controller + software sucks and the build quality is poor (lots of corrosion and plastic bits falling off). Hopefully the new device is can set a better standard.
No compaints about the Kickr so far after 1.5 years very intensive use.
Sam
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sgy] [ In reply to ]
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look at it this way.

would you want a tact neo

or

kickr and brand new wetsuit

i went with the kickr and maverick pro (on sale it was 470), i didn't own a full sleeve suit, so it made sense for me.

john

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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [sgy] [ In reply to ]
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sgy wrote:
Tri-Mot wrote:
As someone who owned a Tacx Bushido for 4 years and dealt with nonstop software bugs as well as a mid-release software "patch" that disabled a significant feature in the software which going forward required the user to then purchase an additional software license to get back said previously working feature, I could not in good faith ever recommend one of their products. I sold the Bushido and purchased a Kickr two years ago and absolutely love it. Last winter I used Trainerroad with the Kickr and have had my best cycling season ever.


My experience as well (I owned 2 Bushido trainers in the past): Bushido controller + software sucks and the build quality is poor (lots of corrosion and plastic bits falling off). Hopefully the new device is can set a better standard.
No compaints about the Kickr so far after 1.5 years very intensive use.
Sam

This was my, and a few friend's, experience as well with their imagic series of VR trainers. Terrible software, and non-existent support from the company. All you needed to do was check out one of the Tacx forums to see all the complaints. If you value the support available from folks like Racermate (Computrainer) and Wahoo, then I would stay far away from Tacx, regardless of price. .02
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [scrappy_dude] [ In reply to ]
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I am pretty excited about this, seems perfect, so whats wrong with it! I am still not 100% certain what i am getting with a "smart" trainer since i have no issues and hit my zones no problem on my trainer thats not so smart.

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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [gibson00] [ In reply to ]
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gibson00 wrote:
This was my, and a few friend's, experience as well with their imagic series of VR trainers. Terrible software, and non-existent support from the company. All you needed to do was check out one of the Tacx forums to see all the complaints. If you value the support available from folks like Racermate (Computrainer) and Wahoo, then I would stay far away from Tacx, regardless of price. .02

Like others I like the idea of the Neo, but I think back to about six years ago when I was deciding between a CompuTrainer and the Tacx models and ultimately it was witnessing the trail of tears in their support forum that pushed me away. Oddly enough I think in some ways the community support for the CT has degraded in that time, but Tacx still has an unfortunate earned reputation for poor support and communication with people based in North America. Europeans may have a different experience but I'm not sure. I have a good working smart trainer setup but even so I would feel a bit gun shy to see if others have had good experiences on the Neo, which in my book means that they have worked through at least on issue to their satisfaction.
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [SamuelMedway] [ In reply to ]
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SamuelMedway wrote:

The perceived advantages of the Neo to me are:
1. Quiet
2. Rocking action
3. 'True direct drive' may mean higher accuracy, less drift, longer wearing

Is it definitive that the Neo has a "rocking action" ? - I looked at it and the design intuitively looks as though it could be "rockable" but I could not find a reference to that function...there's a good chance that I'm just blind and just didn't see it.

Cheers,

Niall
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [dgran] [ In reply to ]
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dgran wrote:
Tacx still has an unfortunate earned reputation for poor support and communication with people based in North America.

Having experienced both the good and the bad times with Tacx, I am not going to argue. The original Tacx Fortius VR and while the Fortius software had bugs, for watt-time or slope time intervals it worked very well. For me, the problems started when the company outsourced software development and started marketing Tacx branded 3rd party apps but others had great heart ache with the companies introduction of new trainers/technology that essentially orphaned the legacy products. Not really that hard to find similar examples in other markets such as the automobile industry where Ford deprecated the Ford Touch technology and replaced Microsoft Sync with BlackBerry.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Last edited by: ms6073: Sep 1, 15 20:06
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [ms6073] [ In reply to ]
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DC did a sound test!

+1 for the tacx Neo I would say.
I know that the kickr gets much lowder if you speed up the cadence...
The neo will stay almost noisless level, regardless wich cadence/speed you ride.

I had the chance to ride it at the eurobike too. it felt rocket stable also during sprints and the build quality seemed to be okay from the outside.
the riding is similar to the kickr, but way better on lower cadance and higher wattage...
hope it will be longlasting too.

I ordered one and they said it will be available arround mid sept.
I don't really care about common tacx software issues, as i am going to ride with zwift, virtualtraining or my garmin device.

other facts they told me:
accuracy: within 2%
nill temp drift, no spindown
no re-calibration needed with a special tool like the treatment the kickr needs from time to time
open ANT+ standart, ride every software you want to
Last edited by: derpuma: Sep 1, 15 23:55
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Re: New Tracx Neo Smart vs Wahoo Kickr trainers [derpuma] [ In reply to ]
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Nice to hear it, while I wouldn't quite call it silent it's definitely the quietest trainer I've ever heard.

I have no plans to get a Neo but always good to see the technology advancing and fostering more competition which is always ultimately better for the consumer. I can't see Wahoo's market share significantly decreasing due to the Neo though based on cost. If they started to feel the squeeze, I suspect Wahoo could push the KICKR in right/at below 1k USD which is a somewhat magic pricepoint.

In theory, you'd think the real loser would be the CompuTrainer since it basically has price parity with the Neo but with significantly antiquated technology in comparison. However, the type of people who still buy computrainers aren't people who are particularly concerned with keeping pace with technology.
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