Wow, harsh words...

Last winter I used Trainer Road sometimes in combination with Sufferfest videos. I began to really loose motivation come February. My total volume dropped and so did my fitness. This winter my volume has increased and so has my fitness. You can criticize it all you want the fact remains it IS a training tool. If it isn't, what was I doing for 78 hours this winter? I wasn't sitting on the couch, therefor I WAS training. I did structured workouts (believe it or not this is possible without a blue graph telling you what to do) ... I did endurance rides, tempo rides, and intervals. The Lap Power function on your garmin is a useful tool if you can comprehend how to use it. I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss something that has clearly been such a benefit to so many people.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

I have been playing Zwift Beta for a while and as a PC/Mac game, it not only has beautiful visuals and environments, but that is all effectively used to create cues that introduce the challenges ahead on the road. It effectively allows for the use of other players' performances to push you to play it better. And it is sufficiently stable to allow gaming skill advancement if you play it with frequency. But you can't do much exploration or free roaming, there is minimal story build-up or character development, a finicky internet connection can spoil hours of investment after playing it for a long time, there is very limited sound effects/tracks, the graphics are not above average for computer games these days, and the achievements as you progress through the levels are somewhat anticlimactic. Overall, I don't think most pure PC gamers would go out and buy a bike/trainer/sensor just so they can play it, but for someone who already has the needed equipment, it provides an unique gaming experience that can have a positive impact in fitness (something most computer games cannot claim).

"Play"?? What's the relevance of gamers and the word play?

I used Zwift's new island today with my MacBook. For me it's excellent, and certainly helps you do something than just pedal your bike in whatever pain cave you have. I also had Trainerroad on my iPad so did a Trainerroad workout whilst enjoying going around the Zwift island.

If you think this is for play I feel you maybe don't "get" the point of Zwift and its uses.

It would seem that lots of people have found a very good use for it - whether it be for lone rides or to join a virtual group when they're unable to ride outside for whatever reason. The harsh words you e used are uncalled for n my humble opinion. If you don't like it, don't use it.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

@BayDad So you have TR running on an iPad control the Kickr, while Zwift on your laptop is recording whatever wattage it thinks Kickr has, correct? I was trying to get this to work while running both apps on my laptop, TR with TrainerRelay enabled in hopes that Zwift would pick it up, but Zwift would complain that I don't have a dongle... It could be that there's something messed up with my laptop's USB ports because it doesn't always detect the ANT stick, but as soon as I would close TR, Zwift would find the Dongle/Kickr without issues.

Sorry no, I use a Minoura trainer with a PowerTap.

Works perfectly and brings a new element to indoor training.

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I ride:
Cervelo - P-Series/R3
GT - Sensor Carbon Expert

Supporters - Flo Cycling, Mount Bikes

I've done exactly this with my iPhone running Trainerroad. Others have done similar on one computer with two Ant+ dongles.
I haven't tried it yet with the latest update, though. It hasn't worked with every release.

You just need 2 ANT+ dongles. I run TrainerRoad and Zwift at the same time, each uses a seperate dongle. That way you can have structured workouts with the definitely very useful mental distraction of Zwift. I find it a really, really good set up for the Trainer.

In my opinion, the answer to your questions is: none. When I wrote my impressions about Zwift Beta, pretending it is simply a game, my intention was to exactly highlight that. For someone who actually knows Zwift Beta, like you and me, that text just reads really funny. Simply put, Zwift Beta is not a video game. Also, during the nine months of beta period so far, I do not think Zwift Beta has progressed toward excellence as a video game (which again may sound obvious to some, but not to all, so I'm pointing that out here). So I'm always surprised to see the word "game" being used as a way to describe it.

Likewise, as I indicated before, there is a very large number of functions one would expect from a cycling training tool these days, that Zwift Beta does not have. And, just like it has not progressed toward becoming a game, it has not progressed toward incorporating those functions during nine months of beta period, and becoming a training tool either. Beta testers are doing now, the same they were doing nine months ago: using an actual training tool app to provide the needed training functionality (in your own words, you use TrainerRoad in your phones/pads). Simply put, it is not an app for training in cycling and it has not progressed toward excellence as a training tool either. In nine months.

However, it may require investments to work as both: a video game and a training tool!!!! You may need to upgrade your PC/mac or at least your videoboard so you can enjoy the graphics to their fullest or even get a stable behavior from your computer as a whole while running it. And you may need to acquire a long list of training equipment in order to use Zwift Beta for biking indoors. And if you want to actually create workouts, schedule them and train, then you need an app for that, yet another ANT+ dongle so you have two dongles (really!?!), etc....

My words, whether harsh or not, represent my opinion, and we are all entitled to express our own opinions here. This is a product that aspires to be a good sold to consumers, and consumers nowadays are very familiar with finding reviews from other consumers about stuff they want to buy online. There will be good reviews right next to bad reviews and that's all beneficial to consumers as a whole.

I wrote Tour de Giro's just-good-enough structured-training mode in about a month of part-time work (total about 60-80 hours). It has a workout-builder, tracks your results, and integrates with all the devices the real game does.

I'm sure the Zwift team will be able to cough up a workable workout mode. Remember, it doesn't have to be better than TR or PerfPro (though I bet Zwift is capable of matching them) it just needs to be sufficient to satisfy the people who primarily want to ride online but want a structured workout every now and then.

The time-consuming part (at least for me) was the infrastructure code: talking to devices, getting the network code working, getting stuff working on a mac, writing the riding-mode graphics system, all the various ways to track workout data, the API to talk to the DB servers, etc. Adding workout mode (which is a comparably very simple graphical front-end and uses all the other code I'd already written) was super-easy.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

I will be studying your response for a little while but just wanted to mention the part that really caught my attention was this: "people who primarily want to ride online but want a structured workout every now and then". And I think there is an overlap between that group and the group that is looking to go through a structured training plan (not just a workout every now and then). Particularly if you think long-term or injury recovery periods, and you don't focus just on one successful single training cycle. But I can also see how some people would consistently be part of one group but not the other. In any case, thank you for your response. Pretty interesting.

Workout mode for us sees about 20x less usage (by time) than virtual-riding mode. Part of that is because most of our users were attracted by the online-riding component and so will have a strong bias towards not caring about workout mode, but those exact same people will be the ones using and interested in Zwift.

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STAC Zero Trainer - Zero noise, zero tire contact, zero moving parts. Suffer in Silence starting fall 2016

How quickly does your battery empty with this setup? I really like zwift. My only beef with it is the speed at which your battery goes from 100% to plug me or I die.

From a full battery on my macbook I get about 1 hour 15 - so I plug in if I'm planning longer than that. So, short answer, pretty quickly.

Agree on the battery drain. I've started to just bring the power cord to the pain cave.

Also echo the previous poster who stated they haven't used TR as much since beginning to Zwift. My TR workout on Sunday was 3x15' @ 85%. That's pretty simple to copy using the lap function on my Garmin 500...just have to remain disciplined for the short recoveries and avoid wanting to KOM.

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http://www.teamodz.com
http://www.endurancelab.fit

I would not be surprised if you used the above statistics do decide how much development time you put into each mode. Why putting time developing something most present users are not interested in? I think it is understandable you may want to focus on what assists shapping your business and make it grow. But I can also see how other companies could take slightly different approaches though.

I'm not sure what the Zwift user profile will turn out to be, as the app itself is still taking shape, but the incentive to use it as an online racing simulation is definitely present.

@cwiedmann @galli 2 dongles wow thanks, silly engineer me would have never thought of this unnecessary redundancy:) I wonder why this has to be so complicated (and why Zwift can't utilize BT???). Anyway, thank you for the tip!

What I know is this...I'm sweating buckets when I'm done on zwift and my legs are shot. I'd say it's a much better workout than riding in a group having to stop at red lights or stop signs. For a triathlete like me, I can be moving the entire time I'm on zwift and it's fun.

I had similar performance on my macbook air. I did find if I cranked down the display brightness it would last a fair bit longer. Do to that annoyance I went ahead and bought a dedicated Zwift box, the suggested Alienware Alpha from another thread. Happy with that so far. Nice form factor, quiet, easy setup, Zwift runs great on it, don't have to move the lappy around, etc. Of course it cost $450, so that is a bit of a negative, but I was due for a new dedicated trainer box anyway (or at least that is what I told my wife).

I started beta yesterday.

As others have said, if you are following a traditional workout schedule on the trainer (as I do), it's fairly pointless to use Zwift over TR, for example. While trying to follow my workouts, I ended up pushing a whole 150W during the climb and sprint - kinda negated the whole "game" aspect of it.

Still, for unstructured workouts, I can see it being interesting. Courses selection would make it a viable and fun alternative.

Software is stable and light and straightforward, which is good. However, for those stating that the graphics are good... you guys aren't gamers I take it. I'd put the graphics around 2005-2006 era... definitely nowhere near today standards, but totally serviceable.

I use zwift with TR, but wouldnt replace TR.

However, we are yet to see their proposed 'workout mode' that's coming, though they've said their intent is not to compete on the level of TR in that regard

I just got approved last night! I can't wait to start Zwifting. It looks awesome

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Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/

Admittedly not a gamer, and can't compare graphics to other new games. Just an avid cyclist and racer. I successfully raised my FTP from 234 to 265 over the course of the winter ... which brings my FTP/KG to 4... not to say that couldn't have been done with other software or all alone... but, for me the piece of the equation was the consistency and volume of training. This is my 4th year riding. I am no expert by any means. But, I have worked hard every year since beginning my obsession with this sport. All I can do is present my anecdotal evidence (which mind you has quantifiable data) ... the past 2 seasons were Trainer road exclusively from November to the beginning of April. I was able to hold some fitness but generally lost quite a bit when the February AND March blues hit and I got tired of training to Netflix and a blue graph. Perhaps that's spoiled but it was the case for me. This season I completed 1,600 miles on Zwift January 21st... to about mid April. I am currently sitting in 6th place in our overall Crit series. And I owe that to Zwift. My fitness is better at this time of year due to my winter effort. With a 2nd place and a 3rd place finish I am satisfied that my hard work paid off. Now if I can just take 1st this upcoming week, the last week of the series, I will podium for the series! Thanks Zwift.

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"4 wheels move the body, 2 wheels move the soul"

Good question! Teamspeak provides simultaneous voice communication over the Internet. An online bike racing simulation would probably profit from offering voice comm so to facilitate communication of simple instructions related to starting, maintaining and finishing any group event. Besides text and voice comm, one would also expect the ability to create, schedule, and publish races, for other users to be able to join a race you created/published, for the system to properly rank all participants once the race is over (as per the definition of racing), for it to offer different courses (I mean simultaneously through room servers, not one course, and then another, and then another,...), and strict control of users who cheat the system for an unfair advantage during races (why login to a racing simulator if you end up having to ignore what others are doing?).

All of these features have been suggested several months ago by beta testers on their support forum. There was some progress on text comm (which can be a bit limited since typing on a keyboard/laptop while exerting yourself/sweating is not always convenient/safe), and on cheating control (which is difficult because of the wide range of the different indoor biking equipment supported).

The Zwift Riders FB page (https://www.facebook.com/groups/zwiftriders/) made some TS channels for Zwift: Server address: ts21.gameservers.com:9149

Facebook allows devs to embed social games into users' news feeds but I haven't heard that's in the plans for Zwift. However the thought is interesting. Zwift doesn't have a top menu bar but I never thought much of that fact. Until now...

Zwift does have a page for annoucement of significant changes made to it, and I suspect voice comm integration would be a major annoucement:

https://support.zwift.com/hc/en-us