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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Matthew] [ In reply to ]
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"Lawyering up sure won't help her image."

you are right. and on the one hand i'm royally pissed that i'm having to write checks because of this.

on the other hand, if you look at this dispassionately, it's kind of a requirement. she either:

1. truly believes she has completed the prescribed courses in these races; or
2. she in any case intends to maintain that she did.

either way, no reasonable person would not act to protect him- or herself in the way she has. when looked at from this later perspective, it's understandable that she is moving to protect her good name.

i therefore REALLY do not want you all to consider this another line of attack on her. my horse kicked me yesterday and i may or may not have a broken leg. we're nearing two deaths in our immediately family. yet i'm sure the toilet getting flushed on julie's head exceeds in volume the toilet getting flushed on mine. i'd like to tell the truth of her story. but i have no desire to pile on, and i wish none of you would either.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [tonythetriguy] [ In reply to ]
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tonythetriguy wrote:
Thanks Dan for allowing this thread to continue! I should have assumed that Ms Miller would lawyer up just as Rossi did… My blood gets rather heated when I learn about cheating like this, even hotter when I find out she has lawyered up in an attempt to squash the efforts to expose her cheating! Then I look at a chached version of Ms Miller's attempts to fundraise to support her cheating, er, triathlons: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/...us&client=safari

Perhaps we should all go to that site to show our support for the World Champion?

----------------------------------
"i disagree with your analysis [or judgment], nevertheless you have the responsibility of moderating this board so i honor your authority to make the moderating decisions."
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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I understood the point completely and agree with the "spirit" of it. Just think it is not best practice to use extreme examples to make a point. Just my take.

I figured lawyering up was on the horizon. Likely why we have yet to receive any type of definitive statement since the original "I stand by my results" nonsense. Me thinks this is not a "PR" move, but rather looking a few steps ahead about what could come of this. DQs wouldn't necessarily require lawyering up. However, when your DQs were the result of conscious course cutting coupled with receiving money/travel miles/donations/etc. based on such conscious course cutting results, those supporters may be feeling a wee bit deceived and may want something now.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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sorry if i'm not following along.

it appears as if she has not finished the course MULTIPLE times. yet she claims innocence? look, i'm sure it could happen to anyone, cutting the course short once, maybe even twice. but this appears to be a chronic problem. the evidence seems quite strong, she's running at pro pace/ olympic marathoner pace for a lap? i don't know many 40-44 females (in fact, i don't know ANY) who can run a sub 2:40 marathon pace for 6 miles....

does she not track her data? how is it that she doesn't look back and say, that's weird, i ran that course so fast, that's the pace i run my 4x200 track workouts at. idk, i want to believe she did all that by accident, but it's really really hard to argue against the evidence.

also, how is us talking about her any different than a group of guys discussing her cheating/timing/course issues at a bar.

^if this is the type of post that is costing you money dan, please let me know. i'm still not sure what i AM and AM NOT allowed to say about her (in order to not cost you anymore money)

john

Catalyst Wheel Covers: Be faster and look great without sacrificing weight.

TOPO Footwear: use code TOPOTRAN20 for 20% off any order!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for standing up to the legal pressure Dan, and sorry for your circumstances.

I noticed her rower friend who had blogged her support of her has now removed the comments at the bottom of her blogs. Presumably part of the "internet-image-cleansing" her lawyers are working on. In fact, I'm sure it won't be long before the second blog is taken down altogether, given it essentially admits that she likely did intentionally cut courses.

Is this also why we have heard little more from her coach? He said he would be open to questions, but that appears to have changed. Was he the person protesting her DQ at IMC, as the 4th placed finisher described in her blog?
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting. I wonder if she also sent facebook, twitter, evernote, and other blogs and social media sites that are discussing her cheating similar cease-and-desist letters as well. I hope the checks you are writing for legal counsel on the matter are not large, because she has very little legal basis to stand on in demanding you remove user-generated content others have contributed regarding her.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Was this asked, answered, analyzed? (probably, but I might be using the wrong keyword search...)

Are Finisherpix pictures timestamped? Every race pictures I have received from other services (always free - aka included in registration fee, although never from Finisherpix) were timestamped correctly - every single one of them. Bogus splits are very easy to find that way.

Similar to what they do to catch fast drivers on toll lanes.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
Thanks for standing up to the legal pressure Dan, and sorry for your circumstances.

I noticed her rower friend who had blogged her support of her has now removed the comments at the bottom of her blogs. Presumably part of the "internet-image-cleansing" her lawyers are working on. In fact, I'm sure it won't be long before the second blog is taken down altogether, given it essentially admits that she likely did intentionally cut courses.

Is this also why we have heard little more from her coach? He said he would be open to questions, but that appears to have changed. Was he the person protesting her DQ at IMC, as the 4th placed finisher described in her blog?

At least JayPeeWhy's two evernote posts are still up and available. I just hope he didn't meet a wood chipper.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
i'd like to tell the truth of her story.

I hope you are still going to do a story on this situation, as one example of cheating in the age group ranks, and what can be done to address it. Someone posted that 5-10 people per IM are cheating like this? (not counting drafting I suppose). I don't want to get into specifics here, but I know of a situation where an athlete raced an IM last year with a mirror and was seen drafting like crazy on the bike and ended up winning the age group and took the Kona slot. This year, I guess Sportstats/RD heard of the situation and they looked for the athlete on the course and the athlete was again riding with the mirror. This time, the athlete was DQ;'d. Still, that same athlete stole someone's Kona slot last year.

Sportstats I thought posted recently that they have a list of folks they look for who are suspect in races? If that is the case, I wish that policy was made public as a deterrent.

There needs to be a policy for each IM, DQ's are listed in the results and for what reason, and/or master list kept on Ironman.com. Seems like there should be much stiffer penalties for these situations than a DQ.



Powered by Dark Horse Coaching: http://www.darkhorsetriathlon.com
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry to hear about the nearing deaths and possible broken leg! As others have mentioned, I too will contribute if you setup a gofundme account. I would however be surprised if Julie's lawyering isn't much more than a bluff. Mike Rossi did the same thing and while he was able to intimidate Lehigh Valley Via Marathon (or they were just incompetent) into not DQing him, Letsrun went ahead and published their $100k challenge and as far as I know they have not been sued over it (despite getting a letter from Rossi's lawyer). I wrote this blog post: http://triathleteguru.blogspot.com/...g-with-cheaters.html as well as posted this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxKfEiOfGmY I have yet to hear from his lawyer. Best defense against defamation is telling the truth...


Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [tonythetriguy] [ In reply to ]
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tonythetriguy wrote:
... just as Rossi did…

Did he really, or did he just say he did?

Death Rides A Pale Cow
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Did he really, or did he just say he did?

Quote:
"We reached out to Mr. Rossi to let him know of the pending publication of this article and asking him for evidence supporting his assertion that he ran the race. The fact that he would have the evidence but not want to provide it seems illogical. Our email was met with a reply from a lawyer who has been “retained to investigate and prosecute any and all claims of defamation arising from false allegations of competition cheating made against my client (Mr. Rossi).”
In a subsequent conversation with the lawyer, he said that Mr. Rossi “has identified at last 6 photos, (and) a possible a 7th photo where he thinks he’s in the image of people running on the course.” Conveniently, neither the lawyer or Mr. Rossi would provide us with the photos or links to the photos."
http://www.letsrun.com/...ting-line-in-boston/
If you read that whole article that's Letsrun published, you'll see that Mike Rossi tweeted some threatening tweets directed towards me…
Rossi did take a lot of abuse on Letsrun.com's internet thread and obviously Dan is doing an excellent job keeping this thread on topic and preventing it from spiraling out of control. I do see a lot of similarities between Rossi and Miller, both in the self promotion, the cheating, and then the lawyering up once caught in their cheating.


Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [mbwallis] [ In reply to ]
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mbwallis wrote:

At least JayPeeWhy's two evernote posts are still up and available. I just hope he didn't meet a wood chipper.


I am still here and have yet to receive any form of litigation. That said I have tried to stick to facts and I am not sure anyone is allowed to tell me not to summarize data that is already in the public domain. To be honest, I had to take some time off the whole Miller thing and I was also racing Challenge Penticton on Sunday.

Whilst in Penticton I received an abundance of 'thank you' and 'well done' from people I have never met before. I think they recognized my wife from the pictures. I have also received tons of Facebook messages and various other modes of communications, and I know that the vast majority have not posted on ST. I think this goes to show how important platforms like Slowtwitch really are when a group or community has a need to address a situation, the audience is far, far beyond what some of us regular users may perceive. Very few went into a Julie rant by name. Nearly all simply wanted a clean sport and a fair race and were shocked by the data and number of occurances that seem to have been missed.

The crowd funding idea is a good one, I imagine there would be a limitless amount of participation.

I had a call from the (Krista) friend who wrote the blog article on Julie. The conversation was primarily based on "I know her and I can't believe she did it" which is understandable and made me realize just how shocked people might be if we all took the skeletons out of our closet. To be fair to Krista ... She knows Julie and does not know Triathlon. She was merely backing her friend but had little idea of the intricacies that result in the evidence being overwhelming for IMC and Vancover Half.

To be honest I am not sure where we are left with this. Out of all the associations we 'belong to' and should be guardians of the sport (Triathlon BC, Triathlon Canada, British Triathlon, ITU.) none have been forthcoming with protection / research and only TriBC returned an email and facilitated a call although I have heard nothing since providing the evidence. Thankfully the businesses (Ironman / Sportstats / Ossenbrink Coaching) seem to have stepped up to the plate and worked towards a result, at least in the areas they are responsible for.

Maybe Dan can assist in providing a route through which concerns can be driven with the previously mentioned associations. Because it would appear that people are making a mockery of their races and members.

Powered by - Wave Physiotherapy | PB+J Coaching
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Aug 31, 15 13:56
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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i am very suspicious of this run

Three big and important races for Julie Miller, and three lost timing chips - that's a fact!

People go a whole life-time in triathlon and never lose a timing chip! JM, loses three, in three big races in a year!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ In reply to ]
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to no one in particular:

i attempted to hide a post and hid the fruit of these posts as well, which turned out to be a number of recent posts. very sorry about that. unfortunately it is not possible to reattach it. very sorry about that. none of you wrote anything wrong. just my mistake.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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1. truly believes she has completed the prescribed courses in these races; or
2. she in any case intends to maintain that she did.


Dan,

I mentioned this in passing in the other thread, and I hope it's OK here, as it is fitting.

FWIW - Rosie Ruiz was tracked down and interviewed a few years ago. She still maintains and truly believes, she won the Boston Marathon on that infamous day!


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
Last edited by: Fleck: Aug 31, 15 17:52
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ In reply to ]
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A number of you have shown interest in helping to defray legal costs Slowtwitch might incur associated with this issue. I’m flattered. I appreciate the gesture, but we will fight this battle ourselves and bear our own legal costs. Thank you all.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
A number of you have shown interest in helping to defray legal costs Slowtwitch might incur associated with this issue. I’m flattered. I appreciate the gesture, but we will fight this battle ourselves and bear our own legal costs. Thank you all.

IMPOSTER!!! Clearly cut and pasted due to font and we all know Dan doesn't use capitalization!!!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Exactly, that reply was obviously drafted by his lawyer.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
timing company people are very busy on race, day. their mandate is to get the results right, per the information at their disposal...
Yeah, but getting the results right includes not having people in the results who didn't do the full course. At the Ironman races we run a script intermittently once the finishers start coming in. It lists everybody who misses any of the timing wires on the course, at any time, all day. We then go through their race segment by segment to figure out what happened. They either get DQ'd right there or if it looks legit they get marked as OK. That's the one time the timer will do the DQ's and not wait for a ref or RD to do it. At the end of the night that script has to come up blank - either people are DQ'd or marked OK. That's the only way somebody with a missing split isn't flagged by that script. After the race Jimmy Riccitello gets a list of all the DQ's and he follows up. And if anybody doubts it, he does follow up - even if it's a plodder at the back of the pack. Jimmy emails and calls me all the time to ask for detailed timing information on DQ'd athletes or just to hash it out back and forth to make sure that we get it right. We both want all the short cutters out and everybody who does the full course in.

Dev mentioned that Marc told him that 5-10 athletes will get DQ'd on average at a given race. Usually it's at the low end there, but I've DQ'd up to 30! Seriously. In a full-on Ironman 70.3. How many of those get reinstated later? Usually zero. It ain't rocket surgery. If they're missing split times and their time from the split before to the split after is out of whack - faster than you'd expect based on the rest of their race - they get nuked. I'd be happy to reinstate somebody if they can produce a GPS file that shows that they did the whole course but that doesn't tend to happen. I've seen more bogus screen shots of somebody else's Garmin activity (two occasions, including T3 of course) than actual tcx/gpx files or links to a real GPS activity proving that somebody did the whole course (zero occasions). The chips we use don't miss many reads and if, for whatever reason, there is a miss, the running/cycling speed from before and after the miss will tell the tale. Usually they'll go out at 9 minute pace, finish at 11 minute pace, disappear for the middle split and would need to be going 7 minute pace for the time they disappear. It's rarely hard to figure out. There might be 1 of those on average at a race, sometimes none, sometimes it's ridiculous (cough, Miami). The most common anomalies are people who finish the race after failing to do a lap. I've had people finish IMAZ after one lap of the three lap run. In a busy race I don't bother putting much thought into a situation like that. Finish after 1-lap? DQ. If they email after the race saying they just wanted to DNF and give their chip back and would rather be a DNF than a DQ, I'll go look at Finisherpix and look for a pic of them posing with a medal. I'll switch them to a DNF if there isn't one. If there is one, they stay a DQ and Jimmy gets informed that they tried to get a DQ overturned despite posing for a finish pic with a medal. Don't even think about it!

OK, Vancouver 2014. Why no DQ for the athlete in question? I asked the timer and he couldn't clearly remember but it looks like he didn't have a wireless connection to the one split point on the bike course, so there was a delay getting the times from there. In his defense, that Vancouver race is a tough day. Look at the list of events: Long Distance (70.3) @ 6:30 am; Aqua Bike @ 6:30 am; Olympic @ 7:30 am; Sprint @ 8:04 am. So there's a lot to do and by the time he downloads the split times from the bike he's probably already printing awards and putting out whatever other fires have popped up. He'd check for missing laps on the bike, but wouldn't have necessarily checked for fast laps. That race was using the older ChampionChip technology which is not conducive to multiple bike splits, so there was only the one, in a parking lot at the start of each lap. If there was one at the far end of each loop, the two shortcut laps would have had a missed read and a more obvious DQ situation. Lacking that, the reason that ugly text file has a ranking position for each split is so that you can easily scan up and down the full list of results looking for single digits where there shouldn't be single digits. Like those two anomalous 1st place bike splits which should have meant insta-DQ. So, no doubt, we should have caught that one. If there's a situation like a 2-lap in-water swim with no exit for lap timing, or if there's a crazy mickey-mouse-head-shaped bike or run course that doubles back on itself, it's possible that people can cheat and not be flagged by missing a wire. In that case we also have a script to list the fastest times for every intermediate segment. That's a bit harder to sleuth through but for example it'll show the time and pace/speed for the segment alongside the overall time and pace/speed for the discipline. So if somebody has the 30th fastest segment and the 400th fastest run overall it'll make you wonder. But then what? If they have a Kona spot and they go from 7:30 miles to 6:00 miles to 8:00 miles I would probably DQ them and wait for the appeal. If they're MOP or BOP, honestly, I'll probably let it slide as long as they don't miss a wire and aren't anywhere close to a rolldown slot. And if it's a big 70.3 I probably won't get the chance to analyze those splits at all. So there's some rudimentary technology at work but it relies on the organization and insight of the timer. If somebody wants to design software or a script that will take an import of every single split time recorded during the race, analyze it and spit out a list of athletes whose pace variance in a discipline is higher than an agreed upon standard deviation, OK. It's easy to spit out the raw data, but you need to get the timing companies and RD's and race mgmt corp's to agree to it.

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.us | sylvan@sportstats.us | Starvas
Last edited by: sylvan: Aug 31, 15 18:27
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
Slowman wrote:
timing company people are very busy on race, day. their mandate is to get the results right, per the information at their disposal...
Yeah, but getting the results right includes not having people in the results who didn't do the full course. At the Ironman races we run a script intermittently once the finishers start coming in. It lists everybody who misses any of the timing wires on the course, at any time, all day. We then go through their race segment by segment to figure out what happened. They either get DQ'd right there or if it looks legit they get marked as OK. That's the one time the timer will do the DQ's and not wait for a ref or RD to do it. At the end of the night that script has to come up blank - either people are DQ'd or marked OK. That's the only way somebody with a missing split isn't flagged by that script. After the race Jimmy Riccitello gets a list of all the DQ's and he follows up. And if anybody doubts it, he does follow up - even if it's a plodder at the back of the pack. Jimmy emails and calls me all the time to ask for detailed timing information on DQ'd athletes or just to hash it out back and forth to make sure that we get it right. We both want all the short cutters out and everybody who does the full course in.

Dev mentioned that Marc told him that 5-10 athletes will get DQ'd on average at a given race. Usually it's at the low end there, but I've DQ'd up to 30! Seriously. In a full-on Ironman 70.3. How many of those get reinstated later? Usually zero. It ain't rocket surgery. If they're missing split times and their time from the split before to the split after is out of whack - faster than you'd expect based on the rest of their race - they get nuked. I'd be happy to reinstate somebody if they can produce a GPS file that shows that they did the whole course but that doesn't tend to happen. I've seen more bogus screen shots of somebody else's Garmin activity (two occasions, including T3 or course) than actual tcx/gpx files or links to a real GPS activity proving that somebody did the whole course (zero occasions). The chips we use don't miss many reads and if, for whatever reason, there is a miss, the running/cycling speed from before and after the miss will tell the tale. Usually they'll go out at 9 minute pace, finish at 11 minute pace, disappear for the middle split and would need to be going 7 minute pace for the time they disappear. It's rarely hard to figure out. There might be 1 of those on average at a race, sometimes none, sometimes it's ridiculous (cough, Miami). The most common anomalies are people who finish the race after failing to do a lap. I've had people finish IMAZ after one lap of the three lap run. In a busy race I don't bother putting much thought into a situation like that. Finish after 1-lap? DQ. If they email after the race saying they just wanted to DNF and give their chip back and would rather be a DNF than a DQ, I'll go look at Finisherpix and look for a pic of them posing with a medal. I'll switch them to a DNF if there isn't one. If there is one, they stay a DQ and Jimmy gets informed that they tried to get a DQ overturned despite posing for a finish pic with a medal. Don't even think about it!

OK, Vancouver 2014. Why no DQ for the athlete in question? I asked the timer and he couldn't clearly remember but it looks like he didn't have a wireless connection to the one split point on the bike course, so there was a delay getting the times from there. In his defense, that Vancouver race is a tough day. Look at the list of events: Long Distance (70.3) @ 6:30 am; Aqua Bike @ 6:30 am; Olympic @ 7:30 am; Sprint @ 8:04 am. So there's a lot to do and by the time he downloads the split times from the bike he's probably already printing awards and putting out whatever other fires have popped up. He'd check for missing laps on the bike, but wouldn't have necessarily checked for fast laps. That race was using the older ChampionChip technology which is not conducive to multiple bike splits, so there was only the one, in a parking lot at the start of each lap. If there was one at the far end of each loop, the two shortcut laps would have had a missed read and a more obvious DQ situation. Lacking that, the reason that ugly text file has a ranking position for each split is so that you can easily scan up and down the full list of results looking for single digits where there shouldn't be single digits. Like those two anomalous 1st place bike splits which should have meant insta-DQ. So, no doubt, we should have caught that one. If there's a situation like a 2-lap in-water swim with no exit for lap timing, or if there's a crazy mickey-mouse-head-shaped bike or run course that doubles back on itself, it's possible that people can cheat and not be flagged by missing a wire. In that case we also have a script to list the fastest times for every intermediate segment. That's a bit harder to sleuth through but for example it'll show the time and pace/speed for the segment alongside the overall time and pace/speed for the discipline. So if somebody has the 30th fastest segment and the 400th fastest run overall it'll make you wonder. But then what? If they have a Kona spot and they go from 7:30 miles to 6:00 miles to 8:00 miles I would probably DQ them and wait for the appeal. If they're MOP or BOP, honestly, I'll probably let it slide as long as they don't miss a wire and aren't anywhere close to a rolldown slot. And if it's a big 70.3 I probably won't get the chance to analyze those splits at all. So there's some rudimentary technology at work but it relies on the organization and insight of the timer. If somebody wants to design software or a script that will take an import of every single split time recorded during the race, analyze it and spit out a list of athletes whose pace variance in a discipline is higher than an agreed upon standard deviation, OK. It's easy to spit out the raw data, but you need to get the timing companies and RD's and race mgmt corp's to agree to it.

Good stuff. There's a lot of WTC races nowadays and you and your very strict and thorough process cannot be at all of them. Nor Jimmy. You need to standardize/productize this methodology so that all WTC timers follow the same regimen. Also, I like the "when in doubt, DQ and wait for the appeal" approach.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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I guess the big mistake the likes of JM and Mark Robson made were cheating too well, winning races and getting lots of attention. Mark went from a 35 min 70.3 swim split to a 22 min swim split the year after, recording the fastest swim split of all AGs which won him an award.. neither would have been caught if they'd kept a lower profile and recorded more plausible times. Which makes you wonder, how many cheats are out there "flying under the radar" finishing 5th, 6th in their AG and no-one notices/cares?
Last edited by: zedzded: Aug 31, 15 18:54
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
A number of you have shown interest in helping to defray legal costs Slowtwitch might incur associated with this issue. I’m flattered. I appreciate the gesture, but we will fight this battle ourselves and bear our own legal costs. Thank you all.

Dan, if you do decide to write a piece about this, I have a few friends who are very much involved in the BC triathlon scene and have been told there were serious questions about her for years apparently. They even have race photographs from a MTB race where she "lost" her number to hide the fact she didn't complete laps. They are also friends with James who did the initial sleuthing. Julie is being DQ'ed from other local events and her local community is very much aware of what has happened. I think you would receive a lot of supports if you did sleuth further, assuming the litigation risk is manageable.

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, GARMIN, Ceepo, Smith Optics, Boom Nutrition, SpeedFil, FuelBelt, SCYS, L3 Endurance Coaching
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]
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Bryancd wrote:
Slowman wrote:
A number of you have shown interest in helping to defray legal costs Slowtwitch might incur associated with this issue. I’m flattered. I appreciate the gesture, but we will fight this battle ourselves and bear our own legal costs. Thank you all.


Dan, if you do decide to write a piece about this, I have a few friends who are very much involved in the BC triathlon scene and have been told there were serious questions about her for years apparently. They even have race photographs from a MTB race where she "lost" her number to hide the fact she didn't complete laps. They are also friends with James who did the initial sleuthing. Julie is being DQ'ed from other local events and her local community is very much aware of what has happened. I think you would receive a lot of supports if you did sleuth further, assuming the litigation risk is manageable.



This unfortunate competitor was the only rider out of 1300 competitors to "lose" their race number.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
to you last 3 gents: Ty, kny, and aahchon. as well as others who feel as you do...

i note that a number of people who live in BC and who participated on this thread early on are not participating now. i don't know why, but it might be that they got the same love note i did from ms. miller's attorney, with the threat of litigation if i didn't excise and keep off the site much or most or the meaningful discussion on this topic. i'm now several thousand dollars into this, so that this thread can continue.

there has been at least 1 thread on this up on site continually since this story first broke. there will continue to be a thread. we are now in the neighborhood of 700 posts on this. this thread remains, notwithstanding the demand that it be gone entirely, or censored with a much heavier hand that i am using. this is an issue that threatens to erode confidence in our sport. this is an important topic. i'm willing to accept a certain degree of expense and peril to allow you all the freedom to discuss something that threatens to unravel the fabric of fair play.

finally, we do have an attachment to decency, fairness and civility on this forum, always have. before i pull any posts on these threads i try always to ask myself whether i would moderate this thread the same if there were no lawyers looking over all our shoulders right now. i hope the answer is in each case yes. just, i'm fain to allow a line of reasoning that, when followed to its terminus, may implicate an additional person, notwithstanding the fact that you are certain there was a second gunman on the grassy knoll.

i doubt you 3 are interested in splitting the legal bill 4 ways. i therefore ask that you filter your criticism of my moderation through the prism of the new check i write every day so that we can continue to discuss an important issue.

I am the guy that posted on the previous (now hidden) thread about witnessing course cutting on the run portion of the Vancouver Half. I haven't received any communication from a lawyer. Everything I posted was an honest and accurate recollection of the events as I saw them and I would be willing to share the details again if there was a need to. However, I didn't feel the need to post again on this thread because, by the time the other thread was removed, the Vancouver results had been corrected and I didn't have any further information relevant to other races or results. Obviously, what I witnessed could only be used as "evidence" in relation to the Vancouver race, and not used to make inferences about what happened at other events. That said, I believe the Vancouver race results were adjusted due to the anomaly in the bike splits, not due to any run infractions. Still, I will stand by my version of events knowing that truth is a complete defense to any allegation of defamation.
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