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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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Her argument that her 2013 time would have gotten her 2nd place in 2015 is really weak. I could argue the exact opposite following her logic (and that conclusion would be far closer to the truth probably). 2013 35-39 winner 10:01, 2015 35-39 winner 11:18. Tenth place (JM's place) 2013 35-39 10:56, tenth place 2015 35-39 12:08. So by my very flawed logic, disregarding the fact that there were different athletes at diff events (just like she is), the 2015 race was at least an hour slower, and that makes JM's time all the more unrealistic.

Add to that she lost her chip at more than one races and it's impossible to tell which times are real and which aren't. The cherry on top is of course the "why would she cheat to a 10th place".
Last edited by: snaaijert: Aug 28, 15 5:45
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sciguy] [ In reply to ]
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sciguy wrote:
IIRC she "lost" her chip for the run at that race too.

Hugh

Ah... Photos show the chip must have gone missing in T2 in 2013 too
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [snaaijert] [ In reply to ]
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Not only different athletes (2013 was the 100 Kona slot year so it was very top heavy) but the weather conditions were way better in 2013. I raced Whistler both 2013 and 2014. 2013 was a dream compared to 2014 when it got blasting ass hot and sunny the last 40 miles of the bike ride.

2015 was just awful from what I've read. Cold and wet.

So comparing times from 2013 to 2015 is apples to oranges.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3 April 7th | Ironman Texas April 28th | Lahti Finland 70.3 June 30th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Everything she wrote sounds reasonable on the surface. Once she digs a little deeper Krista will be disappointed.

The problem is it's not easy to get reliable, incontrovertible evidence. Anyone who comments on her post would be at risk of being a cyber bully with ulterior motives. Even on this thread, just pointing out past results has an individual's character and motives questioned.

I'm all for standing up for your friend but do it in a rational and responsible manner.

Her friend's blog post was neither. All she did was set her self up for ridicule. I have a feeling she will want to get back in her Delorean time machine and never submit that blog post before the day is over.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3 April 7th | Ironman Texas April 28th | Lahti Finland 70.3 June 30th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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GMAN19030 wrote:
Julie has a delusional friend: http://www.kristaguloien.net/...79e80cf2de902a762586

Not just any friend...an Olympic Athlete friend.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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In fairness, the blog was (I think) written prior to the Vancouver data coming out and prior to Julie's coach releasing a statement indicating that after looking at the data he was cutting ties. So there is that to take into account.

Clearly she has missed the key point regarding the impossible run pace. Either that or she has not actually seen the data and relied on someone providing some info but not all, which may indicate why she mentions minor points like sun angle (which I agree is pretty redundant considering everything else). Anyway, I see her one Olympian and raise her at least two of my own .... who actually run.

Regardless, I have messaged the lady in question and offered a friendly and open conversation to see if she can convince me that there was no foul play.

Julie has an exemplary record (previously) in the Squamish community. It's not difficult to understand why people are struggling to accept it.

Powered by - Wave Physiotherapy | PB+J Coaching
Last edited by: JayPeeWhy: Aug 28, 15 6:56
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [GrimOopNorth] [ In reply to ]
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GrimOopNorth wrote:
Pancks wrote:
Is it really that hard to ignore him?


Don't feed the troll.

The forum upgrade that's coming is going to have an "Ignore" Button, right Dan?

Death Rides A Pale Cow
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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You started a thread to publicly shame all people who have ever transgressed. Do you think that was reasonable and in line with you long rant about being a victim?
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Jctriguy wrote:
You started a thread to publicly shame all people who have ever transgressed. Do you think that was reasonable and in line with you long rant about being a victim?

Please read the 3 comments in the post immediately above yours. I think they all apply.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]
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New blog post http://www.kristaguloien.net/...77dc0cf24e84f75b03ef

Seems that she has gotten into her Delorean but has failed to start the car.

"I still stand by my belief (however foolish anyone might think it is) that it was not Julie's intention to cut the course." which race?

She also went on to say that "I will never regret standing up for a friend not matter what information anyone uncovers" and there for me is her delusion. As a friend It sounds great but in reality there are things humans do that no one in their right mind would condone, let alone stand for in defense of.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [MukMuk] [ In reply to ]
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I don't blame her for sticking up for her friend. I think it is a natural reaction to trust your friends word, especially when JM came out with a public statement and this friend did not look at all the facts for herself like others have.

I think the 2015 Whistler facts have sunk in, but the 2013 Whistler, 2014 Vancouver half, and 2014 ITU worlds facts have not set been reviewed by her yet. Along with the 2015 worlds performance where it seems like course cutting was impossible.

I'm trying to imagine how I would react if some of my most successful friends were being accused like this. I think I would react similar, but as always...you should really think before you post something online and take a hard stance.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [MukMuk] [ In reply to ]
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I do not think calling her delusional is going to get us any further in the discussions on how we can make this right. This will just get the thread yanked yet again. Let's keep if factual and as accurate as possible.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [MukMuk] [ In reply to ]
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"She also went on to say that "I will never regret standing up for a friend not matter what information anyone uncovers" and there for me is her delusion. As a friend It sounds great but in reality there are things humans do that no one in their right mind would condone, let alone stand for in defense of.[/quote]"

Can we keep this into perspective? This is a sport, a hobby. She didn't murder anyone. If one of my best friends made an allegedly poor choice, a life mistake, i wouldn't condemn them for it. I would be a supportive friend regardless of the denial or acceptance. That's what friends do. I don't understand how you wouldn't be supportive. Everyone makes mistakes and poor decisions.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [MukMuk] [ In reply to ]
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i must agree with what others have written. friends of mine have done some pretty unpalatable things. cheated on their spouses. were dopers. even cut courses. and other equally unpalatable stuff, or worse.

they're all still my friends, and i will stick up for them when they are accused of being entirely bad because they have one particular failing, weakness, or when a bad angel sits on one shoulder.

it is easy to hold more than one idea in your head about the same person. you just have to open yourself up to the realization that people can be very good, very honorable, very giving, yet have one or more dark, weak failings. in fact, ask yourself if that's you. because it's me.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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While I would probably agree that the previous thread had exceeded its usefulness and deserved to be locked, I seriously question deleting the thread entirely. Sure, I wouldn't want my kids to read that about me, but if I didn't want my kids to find out I was a thief, I wouldn't steal. More importantly, though, it sets a new precedent. To my knowledge, similar threads have been locked (or not), but not deleted. I'm thinking specifically about Finman and T3. What is different in this case that warrants some sort of different treatment? That she seems otherwise honorable? That she has young children? Those seem like arbitrary criteria.

I'd appreciate some more insight as to why the thread was deleted rather than locked, because it really feels like arbitrary censorship.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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deh20 wrote:
While I would probably agree that the previous thread had exceeded its usefulness and deserved to be locked, I seriously question deleting the thread entirely. Sure, I wouldn't want my kids to read that about me, but if I didn't want my kids to find out I was a thief, I wouldn't steal. More importantly, though, it sets a new precedent. To my knowledge, similar threads have been locked (or not), but not deleted. I'm thinking specifically about Finman and T3. What is different in this case that warrants some sort of different treatment? That she seems otherwise honorable? That she has young children? Those seem like arbitrary criteria.

I'd appreciate some more insight as to why the thread was deleted rather than locked, because it really feels like arbitrary censorship.

I saw something on facebook that was clipped from the thread before it was archived. It served little purpose beyond poking fun at the accused. I believe that's the sort of thing that Dan was talking about when he said it had devolved into little more than entertainment. I've seen threads here and on BT where things got so muddy that the task of editing individual posts and deleting some others to make it acceptable were so great that the moderators decided to remove the entire thread. I suspect that may have been the case here.

____________________________________________
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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"I'd appreciate some more insight as to why the thread was deleted rather than locked, because it really feels like arbitrary censorship."

first, it's not censorship, it's moderation. second, it's not arbitrary. arbitrary means i take every 12th post, and every 15th thread, and delete it. third, it's not deleted. it's hidden. sometimes, even after 16 years, i still am unsure what is the wisest course of action. sometimes i don't see it from all relevant sides, and if i need time to make a wise decision i place a thread, or a front page article, in abeyance, reasoning that there is no huge harm done if a thread is gone from view temporarily.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
As was in the other thread, if someone at a race challenges race results either at the race, or like on ST, they basically get attacked. I know in a race I did a while back I looked at the race results and a guy beat me who had a 20 minute swim... So I go over and talk to the timer and I got nothing but crap... The next day magically his times were adjusted. They added 5 minutes to his swim. Took 5 minutes off his bike. Clearly he started in the wrong wave which was 5 minutes before. But the "system" covered for him... So I can clearly see why folks do not want to bring up issues they see with results. They are at the risk of being attacked for being the messenger.
That is brutal. For me it would be a lot more embarrassing to let a bogus result stand than to have somebody point out a bogus result that I missed. So please feel free to let me know if you see anything weird at a race that I'm timing. I enjoy inquiries like that - it's a nice change from "WHERE IS MY HUSBAND I THOUGHT HE MIGHT HAVE FINISHED BY NOW I DON'T KNOW HIS NUMBER CAN YOU LOOK HIM UP?" Not sure how a bike split changes when a start wave is corrected. If he started at 8:00 am and finished at 8:25 and was in the system as starting at 8:05, it explains the 20:00 swim at first, corrected to 25:00. That stuff happens all the time. But if he finished the bike at 9:30, he's always going to have a bike time of 1:05 (minus transition). Finish the race at 10:15 and he always has a 45-minute run, but his final time goes from 2:10 to 2:15 when they correct the start time. The only times that should change with the wave correction are swim and overall.

Sylvan Smyth | http://www.sportstats.us | sylvan@sportstats.us | Starvas
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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I agree that the thread should have not been "hidden-deleted" as well but it is Dan's sandbox. He does have the arbitrary authority to ban, block, hide, delete or do as he sees fit with his forum. I don't like it but it's the rules. Is there anything to be gleaned from the hidden post, I don't know, there was a lot of anonymous attacking on a personal level but here was also some good rational discussion. It appears the bullys got the sandbox closed down.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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What I intended by arbitrary was that I saw no difference between the other cheater threads and this one, so deletion of this thread and not the others appears arbitrary to the forum participant.

Your forum, your rules, but when people invest their energy in debate and discussion, it's frustrating to see that work disappear. Hopefully it is temporary. More importantly, hopefully there was nothing that truly crossed the line after the last update I saw.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [aravilare] [ In reply to ]
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I find it laughable that you are accusing someone of not disclosing info that a lot of us saw, yet you find it "ok" to just be an absolute ass about it. Before you go pointing your finger at someone else, please recognize you're being an ass while doing it.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ttmonkey] [ In reply to ]
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"it is Dan's sandbox"

no. it is your sandbox. i moderate it. if this was a government-owned enterprise you all would still demand moderators. you'd elect them. or you'd elect a CEO to appoint them. either way, you'd want them. that moderator is going to make decisions that are variously popular and unpopular, depending on the person.

the guidelines here are also generally not my rules, but yours. in the classifieds, in the lavender room, i ask the folks who spend their time there what they want. they tell me and that's what they get.




Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sylvan] [ In reply to ]
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sylvan wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
As was in the other thread, if someone at a race challenges race results either at the race, or like on ST, they basically get attacked. I know in a race I did a while back I looked at the race results and a guy beat me who had a 20 minute swim... So I go over and talk to the timer and I got nothing but crap... The next day magically his times were adjusted. They added 5 minutes to his swim. Took 5 minutes off his bike. Clearly he started in the wrong wave which was 5 minutes before. But the "system" covered for him... So I can clearly see why folks do not want to bring up issues they see with results. They are at the risk of being attacked for being the messenger.
That is brutal. For me it would be a lot more embarrassing to let a bogus result stand than to have somebody point out a bogus result that I missed. So please feel free to let me know if you see anything weird at a race that I'm timing. I enjoy inquiries like that - it's a nice change from "WHERE IS MY HUSBAND I THOUGHT HE MIGHT HAVE FINISHED BY NOW I DON'T KNOW HIS NUMBER CAN YOU LOOK HIM UP?" Not sure how a bike split changes when a start wave is corrected. If he started at 8:00 am and finished at 8:25 and was in the system as starting at 8:05, it explains the 20:00 swim at first, corrected to 25:00. That stuff happens all the time. But if he finished the bike at 9:30, he's always going to have a bike time of 1:05 (minus transition). Finish the race at 10:15 and he always has a 45-minute run, but his final time goes from 2:10 to 2:15 when they correct the start time. The only times that should change with the wave correction are swim and overall.

Yep, we are both on the same page. His bike and run were correct. But as I said, when I asked the timer, he just gave me a bad time like the guy was a stud and I had no idea what I was talking about.
Now, since he started early , seems this is a DQ. But the next day add 5 minutes, exactly, to the swim, take 5 minutes off the bike, which cant be wrong, and leave the final time the same, ....
At least I challenged him to his face. Others races know exactly what happened. Still interesting that I got made out to be the bad guy for calling out this person for not doing the race correctly.
It did impact rankings, but, ...

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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [deh20] [ In reply to ]
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"I saw no difference between the other cheater threads and this one"

you ought to look at it from the moderator's POV. i promise you, those are the mostly ardently watched threads. i am pretty activist about balancing the need and right to discuss what happened and compare notes, with the sensitivity required to know when the rush to get at it outpaces the need to exercise patience and discretion. most of you get it. some of you don't.

i hear you loud and clear on the issue of investment in a discussion. this is why, when some of you come and ask to have your entire account and posting history deleted i pretty much always decline. it's because your posts are part of the fabric of a discussion and without them the rest of the discussion doesn't make sense.

it is rare that i delete threads. in fact this forum has, if anything, a reputation for being as liberal as possible. we're not as liberal as letsrun, but how many people have come here from beginnertri because the moderation was considered over-tight in that forum?



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [spankybc] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Can we keep this into perspective? This is a sport, a hobby. She didn't murder anyone. If one of my best friends made an allegedly poor choice, a life mistake, i wouldn't condemn them for it. I would be a supportive friend regardless of the denial or acceptance. That's what friends do. I don't understand how you wouldn't be supportive. Everyone makes mistakes and poor decisions.


The links in the 2nd post on this thread are great analysis. But this friend will probably continue to disbelieve until someone covertly follows Julie with a GoPro for an entire race.
Last edited by: spudone: Aug 28, 15 12:08
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