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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [JayPeeWhy] [ In reply to ]
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JayPeeWhy wrote:
This started in July. Don't show up late to the film and say it was crap because you only watched the credits.

I think this situation is somewhat unique because it appears to be consistent over a few years. It involves, 1st Places, Qualifying Spots, Championship Titles, all taken from others. Money and Air Miles have been pocketed on the back of these results. Plus she;s an Age Grouper .... she's one of us, or at least was. Finally, the person in question has heavily promoted herself within the community, newspaper articles, magazine articles, online blogs and Facebook Pages as a World Champion, someone with integrity (mentioned in a surprising number of places) and promoter of supporting other women, a shining example to other Mums and their kids. It's was a perfect storm when the truth came out. The massive juxtaposition of what people thought and what is actually happening.

At least with pro cyclists what people think is very much what was / is actually happening so when people get caught there is no paradigm shift.

I think once the dust settles, and previous races finally stop being 'found out', a story summarising the affair would probably make very interesting reading.


This is obviously very personal to you and your wife. I totally understand why. It's also pretty clear it has consumed you for quite some time. Totally legit. My point was that it seemed to blow up on ST later in August (I had followed other thread somewhat...it didn't start in July did it?)...when these sort of threads typically appear.

I'm not trying to shit on this. It looks like egregious behavior. But do you really think a paradigm shift? I think WTC (and all of tri) has been smartening up on course cutters... maybe this helps a little bit. I also believe harmful course cutting is quite small % of cheats in tris. But that's just my opinion.

The world, the internets, and yes, even ST... move pretty rapidly unto the next shiny object. I don't see how any more of her races being found out make her any more of a villain.

If someone lost to her in a race because of cheating... it's 100% legit to be upset. Looks like Kona issues got sorted out, so that's awesome. Feel bad for those she beat at WCs. But do you think anyone outside of family and friends gives a shit if someone is an "AG World Champion"? C'mon. No disrespect to those who achieve that. There are some seriously fast amateurs out there. But when the race is over... nobody but maybe tens of people really care.

I would imagine anyone who gave her money is a friend. Some of them may be pissed. But... in my book... giving money to friends is always rife with potential problems.

Imagine there will be those who try to keep the drumbeat going. But like I said in my first post - if Ms. Miller quits racing, I doubt it will have too big effect on her life.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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FWIW - I volunteer to follow her from start to finish next race. I have to see these amazing run splits in person
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Benq] [ In reply to ]
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There are a lot of people upset about this in the local community, because sports is the foundation of our culture. Cheating calls everything we do into question. I read a post from a local guy (just being fair, not my thoughts) that pointed out that lots of people are screwed over by this kind of cheating
  • All the businesses that supported her are now linked to a cheat not a champ
  • All the people that gave her money or air miles feel like they were defrauded
  • Other athletes now have to pay more for systems to catch cheaters (new tech and timing matts comes out of entry fees)
  • Distrust is bred in the racing community even at the amateur level
  • Other amateur athletes that didn't get support are pissed off that a cheater was funded
  • The race directors have to waste time managing the crap-show
  • Public feels less willing to support athletes when cheaters are revealed
  • People that hired her or worked with her now doubt the rest of her credentials
  • People that competed against her for jobs and contracts feel pissed that she advanced on misrepresentation of her character
  • The public is concerned that this person is heavily involved in counseling young people and managing charities; this is concerning given the pattern of deception
The list goes on. Someone pointed out that this type of cheating is even worse than pros, because we don't expect it. It's like stealing from friends and family.This mess is not confined to the tri community. It's the talk of the town, and it is spreading out to every water-cooler, every coffee shop, every post-race party, and nothing in these conversations is positive, or contributing to the enrichment of the sports community.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [captain-tri] [ In reply to ]
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The woman who "lost" her Kona slot did get it. She didn't loose a year of training.//

How is that? IF she went to hawaii, then someone did not get to go. You may have to do some roll down research, and at different races, but someone got the shaft.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [monty] [ In reply to ]
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If we're talking about the 2015 IMC, I'm fairly certain the Kona slot rolled down to next woman (who happened to hail from Whistler) after JMs DQ.

I don't believe JM has ever gone to Kona.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.

is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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She is not banned "for life" but "indefinitely." I think that leaves her open to be reinstated if she were able to provide proof of completing courses, apologize, or whatever remediation is deemed necessary by WTC.

Travis Rassat
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. You have grasped the situation well :)

Taking that time from anywhere else just shifts the issue to the swim / bike, and some might say just the bike, but that is the situation currently.

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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Which clearly at this time she is not willing to do.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMANX: Sep 7, 15 16:00
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I would venture a guess that she has retired from sport.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Pat0] [ In reply to ]
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I want a confession of wrong doing first. Not that she owes me anything but racing in the same area, I want her to apologize then retire.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Last edited by: BMANX: Sep 7, 15 15:59
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Am I correct in recalling that she supposedly ran 3:24 in IM Canada?

We are 4 weeks out from Kona and she has just been pulled from the start line so assume she has been training for it up to now......easy for her to prove some doubters and run a sub 3:24 since she should be in that shape now and no ride first!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ In reply to ]
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for the 4th or 5th time since starting this thread, from the first post in the thread: "from here on in i'd prefer that you limit your posts to anything that you want to say regarding the factual elements of this particular case."



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
for the 4th or 5th time since starting this thread, from the first post in the thread: "from here on in i'd prefer that you limit your posts to anything that you want to say regarding the factual elements of this particular case."

I mean this is a constructive and not snarky way. Your repeated comments about staying on topic are a bit nagging. If you would like the direction and content of the thread to go along certain lines I suggest you take a stronger hand in pruning/moderating the thread. Otherwise it is never going to stay as on topic as you wish.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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"I suggest you take a stronger hand in pruning/moderating the thread."

i take your criticism as constructive. this thread has had 92 posts pruned from it. other than nagging, and being edward scissorhands, i don't really know what else to do and allow a conversation to still be had.



Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Funk wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
if Ms. Miller quits racing, I doubt it will have too big effect on her life.

I would have thought close friends, family, her husband etc would be expecting some pretty good answers. I don't think I'd simply brush it off, if I found out my wife had been systematically cheating in races for years, whilst defrauding dozens of individuals and companies.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.

is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.

I believe that Cowman is also banned for life by USAT.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.

This raises an interesting point. I believe Sylvan from SportStats gave the % of timing chip misreads earlier. Using SportStats' failure rate would be more accurate than using the data from 3 years at one race, as the data set is much larger. Can someone much better at statistics than I am calculate the odds of an athlete experiencing legitimate malfunction in more than one race? This could potentially be something to keep an eye on in the future (one athlete who has issues in multiple races) as a red flag to dig deeper into the evidence, even if all the apparent paces are reasonable.

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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [TriMyBest] [ In reply to ]
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TriMyBest wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.


This raises an interesting point. I believe Sylvan from SportStats gave the % of timing chip misreads earlier. Using SportStats' failure rate would be more accurate than using the data from 3 years at one race, as the data set is much larger. Can someone much better at statistics than I am calculate the odds of an athlete experiencing legitimate malfunction in more than one race? This could potentially be something to keep an eye on in the future (one athlete who has issues in multiple races) as a red flag to dig deeper into the evidence, even if all the apparent paces are reasonable.
I saw a fair amount of misreads but only counted them if they missed more than 4 run splits. I'm sure SportsStats could provide similar data for all the races relatively easily. I don't think there's any question though that the probability of having 2 chips 'fall off' in different races is extremely low.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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In regard to the effect this will have on Ms. Miller's life...well Squamish is a small town (about 17,000 people). The people that supported her prior to the cheating allegations are among the most popular and influential in the community. There is no rock she can crawl under to escape the knowledge of her actions. It was front page news in the local paper, on the radio, and discussed in the business community where support for her races was generated. Her pool of friends just dried up in a hurry. Even the can't-believe-it crowd has gone quiet in the wake of the evidence. She'll have a hard time finding takers for her coaching services, and her employment as a person that counsels youth could come into question given the way the allegations strike at the core of her virtues. So, yeah it could have quite an effect on her life (not just racing but also the other stuff that goes along with it). One might ask if it is fair for the punishment to extend beyond her racing life, but the stigma may also serve as a warning to others that contemplate similar strategies.
Last edited by: ashroadadam: Sep 7, 15 20:09
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.

There is an additional factor that lost chips seem to happen disproportionately when someone has a great race (say a top1% performance based on their ability as indicated by previous results). Lost chips don't seem to happen as much to the person who posts a 5:30 walk/jog marathon after overbiking; though if they were truly random events you would expect them to be evenly distributed among good, average, and poor performances.


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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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I'm deducing that clearly timing chips hold people back. Must be the extra weight...
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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cougie wrote:
I'm deducing that clearly timing chips hold people back. Must be the extra weight...
Not just extra weight but ROTATING WEIGHT!!!
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