Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Jim Martin] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Jim Martin wrote:
jet black wrote:
This is the solution. .


I propose a different solution, and since WTC/USAT/sylvan and other may be reading, maybe something will come of this.

Apparently, the pros now race with the little box that tracks them all day, would it be that hard to tell racers at check in: welcome, if you want to race for a Kona slot, you need to pay an extra $20 to carry around this little box to track you all day. As an added bonus, you get to start in the KQ Mass Start. That way all you guys that are racing for the KQ will know where you stand when you pass one another on course. In addition, your chip strap is a different color than the non wave start people. So there, everyone that is racing to "complete" can have their race and do the rolling start and not sweat if they are getting passed or not, everyone else that is trying to get the KQ will know exactly where they stand when someone with a red chip strap passes them and if any results are ever in question, just go to the fancy little tracking device.

I would pay more for this service and to know that I was in a race and not a quasi time trial where I may get nicked at the line by a guy that was 20 minutes in front or behind me that I literally never saw on race day.

This is a great long term solution, but it will take some time to implement. The immediate solution is to just DQ if you lose your chip or miss a timing mat, unless you can provide GPS proof you did the whole course.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sportstats] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Wouldn't all the problems be solved if the RD placed 1 timing mat every mile in the run and 1 mat every 10mi in the bike just like a water station? Which will be doubled for the multi loop courses, is it very expensive? How much % do entry fees need to be increased?
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dan,

Have you reached out to Trican or TriBC to get their stance on this. If she is racing as much as it seems, she most likely is a TriBC member. I would like to hear their stance on this and what is being done if anything on their part.


AERO & LIGHT is RIGHT

Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [JorgeRamos] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes, expensive, impractical...

A friend of mine is in the timing business, and does all he can to time only running races while avoiding triathlons. Why? Because in a running race, especially if it starts and finishes in the same place, and you don't need turn-around mats, you only need one timing mat and you can fit thousands of people on the course. Triathlons have multiple points that need mats and you can fit a lot less people on the course. Bad economics.

ETA: It also takes a lot longer to compile the results if all your timing mats are not centrally located, and athletes like to have results quickly.
Last edited by: Kay Serrar: Sep 1, 15 12:23
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If you are a RD of a small race that doesn't make too much money, do you act out of principal by challenging the cheaters and their lawyers? You can win out of principal and go bankrupt with legal fee, or you can let a hobbyist runner slide. It's not an easy decision. What is the "right" decision? Going bankrupt and not be able to feed your family or fighting one battle that isn't really that significant to the success of your race. What's the old saying? ... the road to hell is paved with good intentions?

Take a look at ST. Slowman decided to yank some threads rather than risk fighting a larger legal bill. I don't think anyone is blaming him for the yanks, given the new lawyering info


NJSteve wrote:
Andrewmc wrote:
I am absolutely amazed that this has escalated the way that it has

i'm not at all surprised that lawyers are now involved though

I am really curious to see if the relevant governing bodies are going to step in and take action or whether they are hoping that this will simply go away now that the kona slot issue has resolved itself?


I think people take the safest course (not necessarily the easiest). Look at the Lehigh Valley Marathon race director. It was clear that Rossi cheated, but she (RD) wanted nothing to do with the right choice. So we are left to believe she is either too weak or too influenced to make the right decision.

That's what is so upsetting -- these people in positions to defend the honor of our sports don't make the right decisions. I think this is why we are seeing more witch hunts - clear cut cheating and yet there is no punishment and no reason not to continue cheating. PEDs, drafting, helmet mirrors, course cutting, jumping in earlier waves vs. VC firms and people lawyering up. When does it end?


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
While I enjoy a good twitch hunt along with everybody else, especially if it's a participant who, for example, slugs someone to get out of their way, I am having problems with this one.

This woman assuming she has acted alone, will be subject to a level of ridicule and ignorance most people never have to deal with in a normal lifetime, for what is essentially cheating to get a participation medal in a niche sport. We can only hope she seeks treatment and wish ultimately her family supports her through the process. She obviously has problems that extend well beyond what we can see.

The sports governing body in Canada should or will deal with her. Race directors will be wary of her and WTC will likely ban her.

She's done. And so should we be.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
attorneys typically counsel silence from their clients. my attorney is typical.

Dan-

You really need a "like" button for posts like this.

Sharon

Festina Lente
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [phog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
phog wrote:
While I enjoy a good twitch hunt along with everybody else, especially if it's a participant who, for example, slugs someone to get out of their way, I am having problems with this one.

This woman assuming she has acted alone, will be subject to a level of ridicule and ignorance most people never have to deal with in a normal lifetime, for what is essentially cheating to get a participation medal in a niche sport. We can only hope she seeks treatment and wish ultimately her family supports her through the process. She obviously has problems that extend well beyond what we can see.

The sports governing body in Canada should or will deal with her. Race directors will be wary of her and WTC will likely ban her.

She's done. And so should we be.


I agree with all of this.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [spankybc] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
spankybc wrote:
And so is her lawyer ;)

I sure hope that they both are. And the deleted ones also.

I don't think anyone has put anything that is not true. We want cheaters to be held accountable and at a minimum lose their standing and any awards. But what has been done can't really be undone. Her supporters who funded her flights etc. have already been duped.

It just stinks that an amateur athlete would sink so low. For what? Elevate herself in her mind above others? to receive accolades not deserved? Attention?

Sad.
Last edited by: Ty: Sep 1, 15 12:59
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [docpeachey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
docpeachey wrote:
Slowman wrote:
attorneys typically counsel silence from their clients. my attorney is typical.


Dan-

You really need a "like" button for posts like this.

Sharon


+1
But i think what you meant to say was that lawyers typically conduct a lengthy review, and then counsel silence. Hence the retainer. ;)
Last edited by: lovegoat: Sep 1, 15 13:08
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [phog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Unfortunately I completely disagree with your stance. She (is accused of) violating rules and regulations that create a fair playing field for all athletes to participate in. How about the athlete(s) who were trying to KQ, the real athletes who won those races, or maybe the community that was rallying around a (alleged) cheat? It might be niche sport but people spend thousands of dollars and countless hours committing to goals they set for themselves. For this woman to be out begging for attention is a whole new level of delusion. Although, ironically enough, she is now getting it.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sportstats] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
sportstats wrote:
Overdistance wrote:
Sylvan - on chip reliability, not trying to re-direct this thread but what is the backup plan for a rolling start race if the chip does not read? How do you verify where a person started the swim at x:xx:xx in that situation? I realize that chips and scanners are very reliable but if a chip fails to register when you cross the mat surrounded by other competitors as you head into the water, there is no way for you (the competitor) to know that the chip did not register. Finding out after you finish the race that there was no start time would be devastating.

On the cheater side, a rolling start must open up a range of opportunities to circumvent the system in the absence of a backup verification system such as video of competitors entering swim with timestamp, etc. Especially for wetsuit swims where the chip (or absence thererof) is concealed underneath neoprene.


We place a main and backup timing system at all rolling start, the Mylaps Pro chip will read 100% on both lines at each line on the course. The batteries in these chips are good for 5 years and are sent in at the end of each year. When they get low they get replaced before they get a chance of not being read. We did have an issue with bad batches of chips a few years ago and they would die midway through the event (i.e 1 or 2 out of 2500) but the entire bad batch was replaced in 2013. We also have manual backup in place at key location like transition and finish line as well. We have requested a rule change as well that all awards and qualification times should be based on Electronic times only, meaning if you lose your chip and don't get a replacement you don't qualify....

I like this. Lost my chip for the first time in ~100ish tris a couple of weeks ago. I think it got stuck in my wetsuit, because I had the swim finish. Awesome catch by SetupEvents: the guy alerted me as I was running out of T1. I gave him my number and found a new chip on my running shoes when I came back. That's customer service! Ofcourse, I rode thoroughly rode the whole bike course, for the most part. I think. Maybe.

The only problems I see are (1) being able to alert the athlete that he's lost the chip (I had no idea) and (2) getting them a replacement in a reasonable time. Seconds count, even in an Ironman.

Requiring a personal GPS isn't a bad idea either, even (especially?) on the swim. I know there's no evidence that the athlete in question didn't complete both laps of the swim, but 57 minutes for 2.4 miles? Hmmm.... The tough part is drawing the line on what is too fast. 57 minutes isn't completely impossible.

I'm also for a KQ field. I'd gladly pay extra for live tracking (bonus for family), extra testing, and a separate wave. I think WTC could make money, ease some course congestion (maybe) and decrease the probability of cheating.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [phog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
The sports governing body in Canada should or will deal with her. Race directors will be wary of her and WTC will likely ban her.
When those things happen, I will agree with you. But according to previous posters, a complaint was filed by the British Tri Fed with ITU, where has that gone? Hopefully something is happening behind the scenes with that complaint, but I have very little faith in the powers that be to retroactively DQ someone. And what about all the sponsors and people who contributed to her travels/racing?
Quote:
what is essentially cheating to get a participation medal in a niche sport
She did a lot more than this! Google her and you will find all kinds of pages out there where she is calling herself a world champion. If this here is what a participation medal looks like, sign me up for one: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/...us&client=safari


Tony
http://www.triathleteguru.com
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [deh20] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
deh20 wrote:
I'm also for a KQ field. I'd gladly pay extra for live tracking (bonus for family), extra testing, and a separate wave. I think WTC could make money, ease some course congestion (maybe) and decrease the probability of cheating.

It would eliminate the suspense of "will my slot roll down or not?" At a glance, you'd know exactly how many in your AG are going for it, and how many others won't.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
NJSteve wrote:
Andrewmc wrote:
I am absolutely amazed that this has escalated the way that it has

i'm not at all surprised that lawyers are now involved though

I am really curious to see if the relevant governing bodies are going to step in and take action or whether they are hoping that this will simply go away now that the kona slot issue has resolved itself?


I think people take the safest course (not necessarily the easiest). Look at the Lehigh Valley Marathon race director. It was clear that Rossi cheated, but she (RD) wanted nothing to do with the right choice. So we are left to believe she is either too weak or too influenced to make the right decision.

That's what is so upsetting -- these people in positions to defend the honor of our sports don't make the right decisions. I think this is why we are seeing more witch hunts - clear cut cheating and yet there is no punishment and no reason not to continue cheating. PEDs, drafting, helmet mirrors, course cutting, jumping in earlier waves vs. VC firms and people lawyering up. When does it end?

What is wrong with helmet mirrors? I race with it all the time. They are not illegal.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:

What is wrong with helmet mirrors? I race with it all the time. They are not illegal.

Are you sure about that?

I just looked at IMCHOO's athlete guide and....

" Helmet mirrors or mirrors attached to the bike or body are prohibited unless needed for a verifiable medical reason. Athletes granted permission to use a mirror will be ineligible for awards or World Championship entry slots. Athletes using a mirror without permission will be disqualified."

get comfortable being uncomfortable
Last edited by: stevej: Sep 1, 15 13:29
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [stevej] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stevej wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


What is wrong with helmet mirrors? I race with it all the time. They are not illegal.


Are you sure about that?

I just looked at IMCHOO's athlete guide and....

" Helmet mirrors or mirrors attached to the bike or body are prohibited unless needed for a verifiable medical reason. Athletes granted permission to use a mirror will be ineligible for awards or World Championship entry slots. Athletes using a mirror without permission will be disqualified."

WTC yes, USAT in general, nope. I could not wear in worlds, and maybe not IMLT, but all other races I wear, as you can see in my race pictures.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [tonythetriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JM: "Highlight: Beating my husband Ryan at the Test of Metal in 2008. Still being on my bike riding hard and racing with a three year old and ten month old girls to be a role model for."


Source: http://www.corsacycles.com/riders
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [tonythetriguy] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
tonythetriguy wrote:
She did a lot more than this! Google her and you will find all kinds of pages out there where she is calling herself a world champion. If this here is what a participation medal looks like, sign me up for one: http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/...us&client=safari

She set up her own "Support Julie Miller World Champion" facebook page? How incredibly humble of her. I think the "mental disorder" everyone refers to has to be extreme narcissism. All indications are Mike Rossi suffered the same.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think WTC put that rule in to prevent serial drafters from using the mirrors to alert them of marshals coming up from behind.
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
stevej wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


What is wrong with helmet mirrors? I race with it all the time. They are not illegal.


Are you sure about that?

I just looked at IMCHOO's athlete guide and....

" Helmet mirrors or mirrors attached to the bike or body are prohibited unless needed for a verifiable medical reason. Athletes granted permission to use a mirror will be ineligible for awards or World Championship entry slots. Athletes using a mirror without permission will be disqualified."

WTC yes, USAT in general, nope. I could not wear in worlds, and maybe not IMLT, but all other races I wear, as you can see in my race pictures.

Well it looks like it's a DQ in WTC events. I just checked IMCHOO, IMMT, IMTX, and IMWI. All say cleary it's a DQ without medical permission.

get comfortable being uncomfortable
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [stevej] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
stevej wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
stevej wrote:
h2ofun wrote:


What is wrong with helmet mirrors? I race with it all the time. They are not illegal.


Are you sure about that?

I just looked at IMCHOO's athlete guide and....

" Helmet mirrors or mirrors attached to the bike or body are prohibited unless needed for a verifiable medical reason. Athletes granted permission to use a mirror will be ineligible for awards or World Championship entry slots. Athletes using a mirror without permission will be disqualified."


WTC yes, USAT in general, nope. I could not wear in worlds, and maybe not IMLT, but all other races I wear, as you can see in my race pictures.


Well it looks like it's a DQ in WTC events. I just checked IMCHOO, IMMT, IMTX, and IMWI. All say cleary it's a DQ without medical permission.

Yep. Since I race so few of these races, no big deal.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [JoelO] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JoelO wrote:
I think WTC put that rule in to prevent serial drafters from using the mirrors to alert them of marshals coming up from behind.

No data to back this statement up. Just a few thinking the glass is half empty. I feel so much safer where in a race. 99% of my USAT races
have no marshalls at them, so not an issue.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
JoelO wrote:
I think WTC put that rule in to prevent serial drafters from using the mirrors to alert them of marshals coming up from behind.

No data to back this statement up. Just a few thinking the glass is half empty. I feel so much safer where in a race. 99% of my USAT races
have no marshalls at them, so not an issue.

So you think that, on a whim, for no reason, WTC just decided to add that rule?

____________________________________________________
TriSports.com | Towpath Bike Shop | Nuun | Honey Stinger | My Blog | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Sbradley11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Sbradley11 wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
JoelO wrote:
I think WTC put that rule in to prevent serial drafters from using the mirrors to alert them of marshals coming up from behind.


No data to back this statement up. Just a few thinking the glass is half empty. I feel so much safer where in a race. 99% of my USAT races
have no marshalls at them, so not an issue.


So you think that, on a whim, for no reason, WTC just decided to add that rule?

Would not be the first time.

Just like when USAT said 10mm wetsuits could not be used. Just a few board members that had issues, not the membership.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply

Prev Next