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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [NJSteve] [ In reply to ]
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NJSteve wrote:
You're right. If, for no other reason, you don't want your chip falling off in the wind and rain.

We make these; they survived some pretty decent dust shower in the Middle East, they could be used to keep track even in heavy weather

http://www.army-technology.com/...detection-system-us/



They're fairly large, though

As for the whole "Body Is A Temple" thing? Well, many ancient deities often enjoyed offerings of Sweets and Intoxicants
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [RandMart] [ In reply to ]
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http://www.tribc.org/latest_news





STATEMENT ON CONDUCT OF PROVINCIAL ATHLETE

Triathlon BC has been made aware of allegations against a provincial athlete’s conduct while participating in sanctioned events in BC.
Triathlon BC unequivocally supports fair and ethical competition, and believes it is a fundamental premise of all sports. Our Fairplay Policy espouses respect, responsibility and integrity among all participants as its framing statement, and expects all competitors to be honorable in their relationships with other participants. Triathlon BC’s Fair Play Policy can be found on our website.
Triathlon BC is investigating these allegations with due diligence. Out of respect for fairness to all parties involved, Triathlon BC will only comment on, and communicate final decisions.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Kay Serrar wrote:
SasquatchRuns wrote:
I think it is also fascinating that the athlete appears to have lost the Blue IM Wrist Band for sections of the run course. In some photos she is wearing a Garmin GPS watch and you'll notice no signs of the wrist band. It could be covered by the second watch, but it does look like it is missing.


I suspect it's under the watch in those pictures. There is certainly no photo where there is nothing on her right wrist.

It is odd though how the GPS watch switches from the left wrist to the right wrist and then disappears (either given to someone off course or, as a couple photos may suggest, put down her top).

I suppose an explanation might be: she started with both watches on her left wrist, and then when that was uncomfortable she moved the GPS to her right wrist, and then when the battery died she took it off altogether. Who knows, and I'm not sure what the order of the pics is, but I don't think there is much information you can deduce from those pictures.

If timestamps can be provided for pictures 57680, 57681 and 79727, and 32064, 32065, 43091, 43092, and any of the first three is timed later than any of the last 4, you wouldn't need much more to void that result as well.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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But looking on her race photos for china and Canada 2015 - she's git her neoprene band on in both finish chutes. Is she saying that the chip fell off but the band didn't ? How could that be ?
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregtay] [ In reply to ]
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gregtay wrote:
timbasile wrote:
gregtay wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
You should keep conjecture that her twin was in any way complicit off this thread.

Got it, didn't realize that was a touchy subject. thx


I think the apprehension about bringing in her sister was that they didn't want others to be brought in without proof of culpability. The previous thread devolved into "OMG! She has a twin sister, they must be in cahoots!" without any reasonable analysis to suggest that her sister was even involved beyond the role of supporter. The key here, I believe, was conjecture without evidence.


Got it, and I can understand that. I missed the other thread so I apologize for that.

I originally thought the same thing and reviewed the pictures, no blue strap (possibly hidden), tan lines, number markings, and at this point there is no evidence to suggest her sister was in cahoots. Unless evidence is presented, don't go down that rabbit hole.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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cougie wrote:
But looking on her race photos for china and Canada 2015 - she's git her neoprene band on in both finish chutes. Is she saying that the chip fell off but the band didn't ? How could that be ?

*Pink* I thought we had all decided she just has the worst luck. There just can't be any other explanation.... *Pink*
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [trifast99] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent, thanks for sharing.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure what the exact story was for IMC '15 but in China apparently it was not a "lost chip" but rather "chip issues"
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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klehner wrote:
zoom wrote:
Let's say I'm the time keeper/RD. You got flagged as cutting the course. I DQ you. You go and find the video link that I uploaded to tell me that, "if you look in the upper left hand corner of the video 1 and 3, you can see me run by." Well, someone has to go and dig up that video to analyze whether your statement is correct or not ... that's not 0 labor. Say I have 2 cameras out on the run course and 3 on the bike course at key turn points. That's potentially 2 videos that I have to upload and then analyze if you decide to protest your DQ. Now, if I want to be really thorough, I may want to do a sanity check on the other 3 videos to make sure that you were seen. Multiply this by 5-10 athletes, which Sportstats said was on the low side, and all of a sudden you are spending a lot of manpower.

Then, there's the cost of hosting those video on a server somewhere for long periods of time. The cost may be minimal, but there is now a new cost that I have to worry about. Like I said, doable for WTC ... not so much for smaller races where they are already at the margins.


Or the RD could get a couple of teenage volunteers to sit under an umbrella just prior to each turnaround, armed with two clipboards and a list of race numbers. Someone comes by with a visible race number, they get crossed off each list. Someone without a visible race number gets yelled prior to the turnaround at to produce the number (unfold it, yell it, whatever) when they come back after the turnaround. Next step up is to have each volunteer write down the numbers so you get an ordering. Next step would be to have each volunteer write down the number while someone else calls out the current race time, so you get a timestamp ordering.

Not every problem needs a high-tech, high-cost solution.

This is what they do at Honu 70.3. It is a single loop course but there are about 5 "finger like" out and backs which you could easily cut. They have a timing mat at each turn around, but in addition to that they have volunteers with clipboards just in case you "lost your chip."
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
klehner wrote:
zoom wrote:
Let's say I'm the time keeper/RD. You got flagged as cutting the course. I DQ you. You go and find the video link that I uploaded to tell me that, "if you look in the upper left hand corner of the video 1 and 3, you can see me run by." Well, someone has to go and dig up that video to analyze whether your statement is correct or not ... that's not 0 labor. Say I have 2 cameras out on the run course and 3 on the bike course at key turn points. That's potentially 2 videos that I have to upload and then analyze if you decide to protest your DQ. Now, if I want to be really thorough, I may want to do a sanity check on the other 3 videos to make sure that you were seen. Multiply this by 5-10 athletes, which Sportstats said was on the low side, and all of a sudden you are spending a lot of manpower.

Then, there's the cost of hosting those video on a server somewhere for long periods of time. The cost may be minimal, but there is now a new cost that I have to worry about. Like I said, doable for WTC ... not so much for smaller races where they are already at the margins.


Or the RD could get a couple of teenage volunteers to sit under an umbrella just prior to each turnaround, armed with two clipboards and a list of race numbers. Someone comes by with a visible race number, they get crossed off each list. Someone without a visible race number gets yelled prior to the turnaround at to produce the number (unfold it, yell it, whatever) when they come back after the turnaround. Next step up is to have each volunteer write down the numbers so you get an ordering. Next step would be to have each volunteer write down the number while someone else calls out the current race time, so you get a timestamp ordering.

Not every problem needs a high-tech, high-cost solution.


This is what they do at Honu 70.3. It is a single loop course but there are about 5 "finger like" out and backs which you could easily cut. They have a timing mat at each turn around, but in addition to that they have volunteers with clipboards just in case you "lost your chip."


I'm not sure people with a clipboard solves the issue as it still leaves the door open for human error and therefore people will claim "I was there, they must have not seen me" or "they wrote my number down wrong" or "the page with my number must have gotten lost" or "well as you can see from my data I ran a 4:30/min/mile pace on that segment and I ran by so fast they missed me." (or worse.. someone has their friend volunteer to write down the numbers.. and magically the cheaters number is on the paper, etc.) Paper with numbers adds to the mystery of "What happened" but it doesn't shut the door on doubt or crazy explanations that people might use. The JM case is a good example... if there was a paper recording of bib numbers from IMC this year and her number wasn't listed at a location it doesn't really change much, someone can still claim the data is inaccurate. Even the photos people have pointed to could be called into question unless there is 100% proof that the photos were in chronological order that day with timestamps, etc and they were posted online in that order, etc. The only clear solution is a camera recording video at all critical locations on the course. It's pretty black and white at that point... you were either there or you weren't and if the camera didn't see you run through then you weren't there. I am sure some cheaters would still claim "yes I was there, my brother saw me, I don't know why the camera didn't, etc." but at least the RD would have full confidence in his/her decision to DQ someone knowing there is little doubt in what took place on the course. I am sure in many cases it is very difficult for an RD to quickly look at some data anomalies and make the DQ decision. Video would clear that up pretty quick.

And.. maybe if WTC and smaller race organizations don't adopt the GoPro camera idea then maybe the ST community jumps in and makes it happen. This would not be difficult to do... we tend to have a huge number of people spectating and volunteering at big races. For the cameras we can just use older GoPros... gen1 or 2 devices that people have sitting around with no purpose (because they have been replaced with 4k gizmos, etc) I bet we could round up 20+ old cameras from the ST community for a "camera pool" to be used at major races. We just need a battery solution to keep them running all day (older units have awful battery life.) We set them up on the course at all critical path locations and post the raw video on a social media sharing site. Bonus is that we get some good race footage and we can all see ourselves out there on race day (personally I don't really want to see how I look 10 hours in as I am sure it's quite awful.) Knowing the tri community is out there with cameras on the course might be just enough to scare the cheater into staying home. In addition it would give all of us who "think" someone might have cheated us peace of mind when we can go back and look at the video from the day and see that.. "yep.. that guy really was ahead of me the entire race", etc. We would likely see less false accusations as there would be no guessing... we would have a birds eye view of how the day unfolded for everyone. Create some catchy ST phrase for it... publicize that this race is being "Slowtwitch-corded" (marketing people please help!) I'd love to see WTC and other take this on but until they do the community might need to step in and prove the value.


______________________________________________
Team JFT, Seattle, WA
Last edited by: gregtay: Sep 2, 15 15:20
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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sharkbait_au wrote:
So from a few posts from above, I gather the information we have is ...


In chronological order:

2013 IMC (lost chip, swam 58 mins, ran 3:42 marathon, both of which seem inconsistent with other swims/runs)
2014 Test of Metal MTB race (lost race number on front of bike, cut 25 mins off prior year's time)
2014 Vancouver Long Distance Triathlon (chip issue, DQ. Think the issue was out-biking pro men on 2 laps)
2014 ITU Long Distance Worlds (chip issue, ran 6:43/mile for 20km off a 4+ hour bike. Not normal.)
2015 IMC (lost chip, DQ)


Just a minor factual correction for the Test of Metal (photo's and number plate evidence only due to no chips)

2014 - Can not be located in half way photo's, finish line photo- race number held in left hand
2015 - Can not be located in half way photo's, finish line photo- no race number at all

I have no idea what to believe anymore....

" Highlight: Beating my husband Ryan at the Test of Metal in 2008."

Test of Metal 2008Female 30-34Julie MillerDNS1608SquamishBCCanada
?????
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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sharkbait_au wrote:
So from a few posts from above, I gather the information we have is ...

In chronological order:

2013 IMC (lost chip, swam 58 mins, ran 3:42 marathon, both of which seem inconsistent with other swims/runs)
2014 Test of Metal MTB race (lost race number on front of bike, cut 25 mins off prior year's time)
2014 Vancouver Long Distance Triathlon (chip issue, DQ. Think the issue was out-biking pro men on 2 laps)
2014 ITU Long Distance Worlds (chip issue, ran 6:43/mile for 20km off a 4+ hour bike. Not normal.)
2015 IMC (lost chip, DQ)

I think she won her AG in the 2015 test of metal and also lost her race number as she did in 2014. So you can add that to the list!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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zedzded wrote:
sharkbait_au wrote:
So from a few posts from above, I gather the information we have is ...

In chronological order:

2013 IMC (lost chip, swam 58 mins, ran 3:42 marathon, both of which seem inconsistent with other swims/runs)
2014 Test of Metal MTB race (lost race number on front of bike, cut 25 mins off prior year's time)
2014 Vancouver Long Distance Triathlon (chip issue, DQ. Think the issue was out-biking pro men on 2 laps)
2014 ITU Long Distance Worlds (chip issue, ran 6:43/mile for 20km off a 4+ hour bike. Not normal.)
2015 IMC (lost chip, DQ)


I think she won her AG in the 2015 test of metal and also lost her race number as she did in 2014. So you can add that to the list!

I originally questioned how many events had chip related problems, because I expect an adult to find a solution to a continuing problem.

I really don't wan't to keep updating the list based on every "I think" etc.. Feel free to update if you have evidence.
Last edited by: sharkbait_au: Sep 2, 15 16:54
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregtay] [ In reply to ]
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gregtay wrote:
Jason N wrote:
klehner wrote:
zoom wrote:
Let's say I'm the time keeper/RD. You got flagged as cutting the course. I DQ you. You go and find the video link that I uploaded to tell me that, "if you look in the upper left hand corner of the video 1 and 3, you can see me run by." Well, someone has to go and dig up that video to analyze whether your statement is correct or not ... that's not 0 labor. Say I have 2 cameras out on the run course and 3 on the bike course at key turn points. That's potentially 2 videos that I have to upload and then analyze if you decide to protest your DQ. Now, if I want to be really thorough, I may want to do a sanity check on the other 3 videos to make sure that you were seen. Multiply this by 5-10 athletes, which Sportstats said was on the low side, and all of a sudden you are spending a lot of manpower.

Then, there's the cost of hosting those video on a server somewhere for long periods of time. The cost may be minimal, but there is now a new cost that I have to worry about. Like I said, doable for WTC ... not so much for smaller races where they are already at the margins.


Or the RD could get a couple of teenage volunteers to sit under an umbrella just prior to each turnaround, armed with two clipboards and a list of race numbers. Someone comes by with a visible race number, they get crossed off each list. Someone without a visible race number gets yelled prior to the turnaround at to produce the number (unfold it, yell it, whatever) when they come back after the turnaround. Next step up is to have each volunteer write down the numbers so you get an ordering. Next step would be to have each volunteer write down the number while someone else calls out the current race time, so you get a timestamp ordering.

Not every problem needs a high-tech, high-cost solution.


This is what they do at Honu 70.3. It is a single loop course but there are about 5 "finger like" out and backs which you could easily cut. They have a timing mat at each turn around, but in addition to that they have volunteers with clipboards just in case you "lost your chip."


I'm not sure people with a clipboard solves the issue as it still leaves the door open for human error and therefore people will claim "I was there, they must have not seen me" or "they wrote my number down wrong" or "the page with my number must have gotten lost" or "well as you can see from my data I ran a 4:30/min/mile pace on that segment and I ran by so fast they missed me." (or worse.. someone has their friend volunteer to write down the numbers.. and magically the cheaters number is on the paper, etc.) Paper with numbers adds to the mystery of "What happened" but it doesn't shut the door on doubt or crazy explanations that people might use. The JM case is a good example... if there was a paper recording of bib numbers from IMC this year and her number wasn't listed at a location it doesn't really change much, someone can still claim the data is inaccurate. Even the photos people have pointed to could be called into question unless there is 100% proof that the photos were in chronological order that day with timestamps, etc and they were posted online in that order, etc. The only clear solution is a camera recording video at all critical locations on the course. It's pretty black and white at that point... you were either there or you weren't and if the camera didn't see you run through then you weren't there. I am sure some cheaters would still claim "yes I was there, my brother saw me, I don't know why the camera didn't, etc." but at least the RD would have full confidence in his/her decision to DQ someone knowing there is little doubt in what took place on the course. I am sure in many cases it is very difficult for an RD to quickly look at some data anomalies and make the DQ decision. Video would clear that up pretty quick.

And.. maybe if WTC and smaller race organizations don't adopt the GoPro camera idea then maybe the ST community jumps in and makes it happen. This would not be difficult to do... we tend to have a huge number of people spectating and volunteering at big races. For the cameras we can just use older GoPros... gen1 or 2 devices that people have sitting around with no purpose (because they have been replaced with 4k gizmos, etc) I bet we could round up 20+ old cameras from the ST community for a "camera pool" to be used at major races. We just need a battery solution to keep them running all day (older units have awful battery life.) We set them up on the course at all critical path locations and post the raw video on a social media sharing site. Bonus is that we get some good race footage and we can all see ourselves out there on race day (personally I don't really want to see how I look 10 hours in as I am sure it's quite awful.) Knowing the tri community is out there with cameras on the course might be just enough to scare the cheater into staying home. In addition it would give all of us who "think" someone might have cheated us peace of mind when we can go back and look at the video from the day and see that.. "yep.. that guy really was ahead of me the entire race", etc. We would likely see less false accusations as there would be no guessing... we would have a birds eye view of how the day unfolded for everyone. Create some catchy ST phrase for it... publicize that this race is being "Slowtwitch-corded" (marketing people please help!) I'd love to see WTC and other take this on but until they do the community might need to step in and prove the value.

It solves the problem in the sense that if you lose your chip, you have a questionable time, you don't have GPS data, and you aren't marked on the clipboard you get DQ'd. The athlete can bitch all they want about the volunteer not marking down their number, but the RD and timing official will have sufficient evidence in their eyes. JM was DQ'd without clipboards and number marking, so obviously the burden of proof is not that high, but would at least add to the evidence for or against an athlete's claim.

Of course you could use video in certain spots if you can afford it and are willing to review all of it, but that doesn't prevent someone from jumping in a car or on a bike between timing mats or video spots so there is no full proof method short of video taping every athlete for the ENTIRE course.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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cougie wrote:
But looking on her race photos for china and Canada 2015 - she's git her neoprene band on in both finish chutes. Is she saying that the chip fell off but the band didn't ? How could that be ?

Where can one find race photos for China? Also, is there a set of results with the lap splits?
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [peeg] [ In reply to ]
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peeg wrote:
Where can one find race photos for China?

Just like anything else: from a hacker in North Korea?

As for the whole "Body Is A Temple" thing? Well, many ancient deities often enjoyed offerings of Sweets and Intoxicants
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [sharkbait_au] [ In reply to ]
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sharkbait_au wrote:
zedzded wrote:
sharkbait_au wrote:
So from a few posts from above, I gather the information we have is ...

In chronological order:

2013 IMC (lost chip, swam 58 mins, ran 3:42 marathon, both of which seem inconsistent with other swims/runs)
2014 Test of Metal MTB race (lost race number on front of bike, cut 25 mins off prior year's time)
2014 Vancouver Long Distance Triathlon (chip issue, DQ. Think the issue was out-biking pro men on 2 laps)
2014 ITU Long Distance Worlds (chip issue, ran 6:43/mile for 20km off a 4+ hour bike. Not normal.)
2015 IMC (lost chip, DQ)


I think she won her AG in the 2015 test of metal and also lost her race number as she did in 2014. So you can add that to the list!

I originally questioned how many events had chip related problems, because I expect an adult to find a solution to a continuing problem.

I really don't wan't to keep updating the list based on every "I think" etc.. Feel free to update if you have evidence.
ToM 2015 results show her winning her age group (40-44) by a margin of 22:06 over the 2nd place finisher in her age group. Also the only rider out of the first 150 without a number strapped to her bars.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [peeg] [ In reply to ]
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I just started to look at Weihai, for photos there are only 3 photos in the gallery that I found (all elite). She ran a 1:23:43 there, 20 minutes faster than 3rd through to last place. Assuming her athlinks is long gone, what is her normal pace for that run distance?

http://www.triathlon.org/results/result/2014_weihai_itu_long_distance_triathlon_world_championships/267371
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Vans88] [ In reply to ]
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i have a simple solution for her if she really wants to prove everyone wrong and that is to go out and run at an event (maybe a half marathon or even a 70.3). take a garmin and/or have someone independent run/ride with you. then we see if she is really that good or would the claim then be that there were other issues at play (injured/not feeling good etc). i think no matter what controls you put in place people who really want to cheat will find a way around it. i think someone has previously mentioned a guy who did it here and was very creative in the way he went about it. luckily people spoke up and triathlon australia banned him for two years. at some races it is at the discretion of the race director how the rules are implemented but it should always be an immediate DQ if you lose your timing chip and you do not notify an official asap. no matter what country or race.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [SasquatchRuns] [ In reply to ]
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This might be off topic, but if someone wins podium spots and has not done the whole race, could I get a podium placing by not doing any of the race? I mean, there are bears on this course, it's dangerous.

Oh, I'll pay the entry (that I will crowd fund,) but I'll just hang out near the finish. I promise to not take someones Kona spot.

Cervelo R3 and Cannondale Synapse, Argon18 Electron Track Bike
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [peeg] [ In reply to ]
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Vans88] [ In reply to ]
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Vans88 wrote:
I just started to look at Weihai, for photos there are only 3 photos in the gallery that I found (all elite). She ran a 1:23:43 there, 20 minutes faster than 3rd through to last place. Assuming her athlinks is long gone, what is her normal pace for that run distance?

http://www.triathlon.org/results/result/2014_weihai_itu_long_distance_triathlon_world_championships/267371[/quote[/url]]
I believe that Julie Miller stated it best: Miller told TMC, “I know the race I ran throughout the whole course. ..

She ran throughout the course. What more do you want from her? She was there. . throughout :)
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Ty] [ In reply to ]
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"I was leading the women on the bike until the last two kilometers when a team-mate passed me. I got off my bike and struggled for the first few km on the run. I think my words to my sister when I saw her were “I’m really struggling’. I was running scared realizing I might actually get on the podium. I had Lisa (my sister) watching for other women and telling me how far back they were and if they were gaining on me. On the last 5 km lap, I started to find my legs again and picked up my pace, but was it going to be enough to hold my spot? Lisa disappeared to the finish line to see me cross. I started to realize what a huge boost it was seeing her on the course every lap. I dug deep for my own drive and crossed the finish line as World Champion. It truly was a powHERful ‘Pinch Me’ moment!”"

Unless her sister is a complete retard, she must have been aware her sister was cheating. The speed discrepancy between Julie Millers normal 6 min/km pace vs someone like Victoria Hill running at 4.10 pace would have been blatantly obvious.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [zedzded] [ In reply to ]
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I know what they do to people who cheat in business in China - you get locked up. For years.

And if swimming isnt your thing - how could you beat all of the Canadian team (male and female) out of the water ? Or is Canada full of hopeless swimmers ?

If she was a strong swimmer yes - but by her own admission - "Swimming is not my strong suit so this was HUGE."

Hugely suspicious I'd say.

On second look - that quote is BS. She wasn't even first canadian lady in her AG. She swam 1.12 - another girl swam 1.09.

There are at least three Canadians faster than her in the swim - depending on when the waves went.
Last edited by: cougie: Sep 3, 15 2:55
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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cougie wrote:
Some china photos here - http://www.powherhouse.com/...-victory-whats-next/

Julie's response to the following question posed in the linked interview. was interesting.

"PH: We are curious as to what’s next for you?"

JM"
Last year racing Ironman Canada, I missed going to Kona by less than a minute so I have some unfinished business. My goal is to then be racing the Ironman World Championships in Kona in October if all goes well."

When I look at the 2013 Ironman Canada results it shows her finishing 10th in 10:56:15. If there were 3 spots and no roll downs, the third place gal was over 26 minutes ahead of Julie rather than less than a minute. Even if the spot had rolled down to 9th place, that gal was still over 8 and a half minutes ahead of Julie. Even if you look at what place her time would have garnered her in the next older age group it's still only 6th so it's not as if she was thinking " when I age up". It would appear there was some rather "wishful remembering" going on.

Hugh

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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