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Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
 
>The latest nonsense just reinforces what a coward Lance is. His lawyer is doing all the talking while he's gone into hiding. At least the others came forward and faced the music; Lance sent someone else to do it for him.

And his lawyer is apparently channeling "Baghdad Bob"
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 

 
Re: A Question Only [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
>Nedbraden hinted to new names coming out.

Does Nedbraden actually know anything? (serious question)
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 

 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 
Yes, and the solution to the problem is not to go after one athlete.
Last edited by: TriBeer: Oct 16, 12 9:39
 
Re: A Question Only [trail] [ In reply to ]
 
I took his comment as a hypothesis. I also think it is plausible. Clearly was the case with puerto. They killed it as soon as the big names started coming out.
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 
Quote:
Yes, and the solution to the problem is not to go after one athlete.

They didn't go after just one athlete. De Moral, Ferrari, and Jose Marti are all out of the sport now. Lance and JB were clearly tied to them so I fail to see how it's "just about Lance". USADA was getting the enablers as well as the users.
 
Re: A Question Only [sketchfest] [ In reply to ]
 
Have you read the Reasoned Decision?

It's about one athlete. Yes, JB, Ferrari and others were mentioned, but only to support USADA's case against LA. Again, it's clearly about one athlete.
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 
TriBeer wrote:
Have you read the Reasoned Decision?

It's about one athlete. Yes, JB, Ferrari and others were mentioned, but only to support USADA's case against LA. Again, it's clearly about one athlete.

It was the reasoned decision for the LA case.. Of course it is going to be about one person. I'm sure the decisions against JB et al have their own additonal evidence.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 
Anyone else notice that Lance hasn't tweeted in five days? That's a record for him. Laying low is not what he does. Is it possible that he's actually considering coming clean, now that it's ridiculously obvious that he was doped for basically his entire career? Lay low for a while, stop the denials, and then hold a tear-filled press conference where you admit that you doped but that it's in the past and now you're all about fighting cancer, etc, etc? Or is he way too megalomaniacal to ever do something like that?
 
Re: A Question Only [89Greg] [ In reply to ]
 
89Greg wrote:
Anyone else notice that Lance hasn't tweeted in five days?

Practicing for that lie detector test
 
Re: A Question Only [TriBeer] [ In reply to ]
 
dont get me wrong, we make the same point

Lance went over to take on a pack of dopers and came out tops. Everyone was on it so everyone is guilty of the peripheral charges of pushing and possession.

It sounds like he had a deal to get some immunity from tests, but it was long obvious that winners are selected in the tour. Its no coincidence that the team leaders are the best looking, most articulate, charismatic riders too. Cycling is so heavily political - you cant even pass someone without thinking of heirarchy. The tour was happy to have an all american hero emerge and it worked out that he had the cancer backdrop.

People are acting like scorned lovers. The psychology is understandable since many had a man-crush on this guy for a decade then feel like they have been disgraced for a relationship that they now percive to have been based on lies. You have the faithful lovers that will love even when slapped in the face, and the others that are spiteful and narrowminded in thier revenge seeking. These are the ones hungry for a pound of flesh.

Lance et al. went in and got the job done. The job description that they took on looked alot different than anyone could let the public know, but within the peloton it was understood. How many cyclists just said, " I dont want to talk about it" " I am not angry" I can think of loads... it was already the ingrained culture and his crew was the alpha pack.

The whole thing makes me think of war in that people are conflicted by they want to love soldiers but most are naive to the details of warfare. Winning the tour is war.

I think its natural that Lance lied since lieing is as much part of the culture as the doping itself. The outwardly clean image had to maintained during thousands of interviews by everyone. When he thought that people were outing him, he protected himself and probably felt like he was protecting the entire cycling industry from exposing the ugly head to the public. So then the cost was to try to lower the credibility of a couple of witnesses to sve cycling in the eye of the public ... thinking proof was impossible. The whole thing was ugly and dispicable and now reached the point of almost no return. Who would have thought the investigators were going to spend half a billion to prove that a tour de france rider doped in the ninties ?

Cycling in the tour is one of the most serious and straining jobs in the world job. People should stop acting surprised that people are going into battle as well armed as they can. Even making the tour completely non publicised and amateur wont stop people cheating. People were snorting coke before the sprint in fixie bike races in new york, for local bragging rights. I think in the earliest tours people were caught doing things like catching a train. Its just in nature of the game.

The whole investigation only proved that doping is expected and that tests are fallable. If anything I think the court cases have made doping more acceptable in society.

Am I pro doping? , no way ! I would love a clean race between men that fell in love with the whir of a clean chain while riding into the sunset as a kid.

This all wont be possible unless penalties are heavier. Letting people come back to the sport definately sends out the message that its not abhorrent, but human to dope. Almost like.. its okay, we know. The only way to say that it has zero tolerance is to punish the team so that the pressure is locally. All this is futile without effective testing since it seems that everyone was under the limbo bar on those protocols. As it is I dont know if they can deter someone from being the best through a bottle while threatening that they probably wont get caught but if they do they are welcome back in a couple of years, and will probably even have an advantage being tagged as a "now completely clean and anti drugs rider".

I know that people are going to say , well this is what they are doing with US postal now... but its too focal. There is no glory in blaming men who did thier jobs perfectly in the eyes of thier teams given the culture of a drugs arm race. They helped riders win the tour while testing clean. Thats what they were paid to think about how to do day and night. The millions and millions from the court cases should have been used to get testing up to speed since all they did was ruin cycling reputation and end up at square one with shitty testing.


 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 
You're totally ignoring Lance's role as a ringleader of organized doping and key enforcer of the omerta.
 
Re: A Question Only [JollyRogers] [ In reply to ]
 
Practicing for that lie detector test [/quote wrote:

I heard he has also contacted the 'ULDI' (union Lie detector international) and donated an undisclosed amount to their cause.
 
Re: A Question Only [Barlow] [ In reply to ]
 
Anyone see the news this morning about NIKE paying $500k to hide a positive in 1999? I know its not a new accusation, but now a new witness to say who gave the money to the UCI. I'll try to find th elink to the story.

- Cat 2
- Training Peaks ambassador

"A good coach will do more for you than a good set of wheels."
 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 
Half a Billion for the investigation? Where did you hear that?



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
 
Re: A Question Only [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
 
Here is the article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...p-armstrong-positive

- Cat 2
- Training Peaks ambassador

"A good coach will do more for you than a good set of wheels."
Last edited by: shootthegap: Oct 16, 12 9:35
 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 

"Its no coincidence that the team leaders are the best looking, most articulate, charismatic riders too."


- Cadel? really?

"Half a billion" - utter BS.



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
 
Re: A Question Only [shootthegap] [ In reply to ]
 
WHere does that say anything about the cost of the investigation?



"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek
 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 
Good post. I agree with most of it, although half a billion dollars seems a wild exaggeration. It's also not a zero sum game that money spent on court cases/investigations could have been spent on enhancing drug testing. It's not one or the other. And what would be the point of having better drug tests if you're not prepared to spend the money going after those who fail them or have passport anomolies. Plus, with the athletes seemingly always a step ahead of the testers, witness testimoney will likely become a more important source of busting PED users going forward. Think Kenyan runners being infiltrated by a journalist acting as a sports agent:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...-doping-inquiry.html
 
Re: A Question Only [lacticturkey] [ In reply to ]
 
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I do hope that the sport gets cleaned up and that pro-cyclists have an even playing field. I'm sorry that athletes like Scott Mercier had to quit the sport.

While reading the Reasoned Decision, my skin crawled and felt it was fodder for scenes from True Blood -- really creepy. I can't imagine racing and then during recovery infusing my body with my own blood -- must really suck the fun out of the sport.

I also wish that another approach could have been used for this clean-up process. I'm uncomfortable with using cheaters & dopers to catch other cheaters & dopers. I also didn't appreciate how USADA brought LA's ex-wife into this process.

Again, thank you for your thoughtful response. I will read it again, as I liked it.

I will also correct my post.
Last edited by: TriBeer: Oct 16, 12 10:00
 
Re: A Question Only [shootthegap] [ In reply to ]
 
shootthegap wrote:
Here is the article: http://www.cyclingnews.com/...p-armstrong-positive

Hearsay....Kathy Lemond has no direct knowledge of the alleged pay-off. She is only repeating what she was told by someone about the incident, and that person disputes her claim.

Not saying it didn't happen, but there is simply no meat to this particular claim.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams
 
Re: A Question Only [--] [ In reply to ]
 
Cadel is very cute.
 
Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
 
I miss the old Lance threads. This thread is too huge for me to wade through.
 
Re: A Question Only [89Greg] [ In reply to ]
 
You could be right or he's waiting for the UCI response?
 

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