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Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [pattersonpaul] [ In reply to ]
 
OIne thing I don't understand is how WTC went from a huge partnership with LA, which was done just after the legal case was dropped, to being one of the more vocal anti doping entities in tri.

They had to be very suspicious of LA. I could see allowing him to race, but to get into bed with him like that, and now be testing pros and random AGers just seems like an extreme about face.

Styrrell
 
Re: A Question Only [Francois] [ In reply to ]
 
Looking at the news, I love wiggins' response as told to Sky Sports news. He didn't say,
'it is jaw-dropping the amount of drugs lance pumped into himself and his team.'

No, the size of the usps doping machine wasn't amazing to him (gee, I wonder why?). But instead he says,
'It is jaw-dropping the amount of people who have testified against him.'

Can wiggins be more transparent? I think not.

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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Oct 12, 12 7:20
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
 
Does triathlon use the passport system? If not, doesn't this mean that testing is totally worthless? As we have learned numerous times, beating the tests is pretty easy.

What do we do if LA admits to doping, receives a two year ban, and then returns to triathlon. Given his past ability to fool the doping tests, unless the passport system is in place, he could just return to his old tricks and triathlon would have no way to detect it.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [The Guardian] [ In reply to ]
 
The Guardian wrote:
Does triathlon use the passport system? If not, doesn't this mean that testing is totally worthless?

Essentially, yes. Most standard testing is remarkably easy to circumvent.

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Re: A Question Only [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
 
Seems Wiggins and Sean Yates (DS on Sky now) need to chat... apparently Yates just drove the car and saw nothing as a DS on Discovery.



Also, Millar has some critical words for the UCI leadership:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...uggen-to-resign.html

Suffer Well.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
 
BDoughtie wrote:
It's not a matter of resources; it's a matter of finding the will to change the established order and take the relatively modest steps necessary to make a very substantial impact on AG PED use.


________

But it is about the resources. A doping program that has no teeth doesnt matter. IE, look at our program now.

Yes. Right now, if USAT *happens* to show up at an event, then AG podiums *might* get tested. Right now, about the only ones I think that really happens at are a couple of the larger triathlons in the country and the National selection races.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [Uncle Arqyle] [ In reply to ]
 
Uncle Arqyle wrote:
Very nice. Also, knowing what they know and who did what and what type of people are still in this sport and to not come clean without someone pressuring you??!! Christian, who uses Phinney as an example of the next generation that needs this cleansing was in RadioShack's feeder team!!

Note sure what your point is. Phinney went to BMC (ex Phonak) with George and Ballan.
 
Re: A Question Only [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
 
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Looking at the news, I love wiggins' response as told to Sky Sports news. He didn't say,
'it is jaw-dropping the amount of drugs lance pumped into himself and his team.'

No, the size of the usps doping machine wasn't amazing to him (gee, I wonder why?). But instead he says,
'It is jaw-dropping the amount of people who have testified against him.'

Can wiggins be more transparent? I think not.

So...what exactly are you trying to imply?

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: A Question Only [Hanaki] [ In reply to ]
 
If it is all about Lance then nothing gets solved.


But it isn't' all about Lance. It is about the entire team and a lot of people complicit including team doctors, trainers and even the UCI. If this could happen on the scale reported then it is happening everywhere and should be the beginning of some serious investigations.

At this point the other 25-30 riders are almost insignificant, the damage has been done to the sport and it's up to cycling now to deal with it. If they deem it over and continue on (including letting the other riders go) then I would agree nothing gets solved and it is a waste of time. If however, they act on some of this to investigate teams then going after Lance will be worthwhile.

Lance was the guy to go after since he was the Kingpin and 7-time winner. It's kind of like going after the Godfather when there are lots of underlings who committed crimes going unpunished. It always starts at the top and Lance was the rainmaker.
 
Re: A Question Only [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
 
Devlin wrote:
So...what exactly are you trying to imply?
John


I'm not trying to imply anything.

But I think wiggins might be trying to imply something about the omertĂ  ...

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Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [AJHull] [ In reply to ]
 
I wish I could place a bet that he was doped for his last year of triathlon. That only seems logical. There as no reason for him to stop and he was clearly in contact with the doping doctor.


i have absolutely no doubt Lance was doped for triathlon. In his e-mail to Ferrari's son regarding how hard it would be to win the Ironman (I assume he meant Hawaii) Ferrari told him it was possible but it would not be easy. I think Lance entered with his only goal to win IMH and to do that he would have realized drugs would really help accomplish that. If you are at the top level by taking drugs there is no way he would accept being "only" top 10 without drugs in triathlon.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [TriTrev] [ In reply to ]
 
TriTrev wrote:


If.....you a proven doper, because you confessed, you should be suspended immediately....but instead of being suspended you are allowed to continue riding as if nothing happened...you are taking a position on a team/or a race start away from someone that is clean....adversely affecting that clean rider. How do you think the rookie rider feels that was denied a start in the Tour because one of these riders took a team spot.....that rookie might never get another chance, he may have been a contender someday, but the USADA took that day away....Its a professional sport, what have you done for us lately mentality for team selection, riders were denied the chance to do something....there were clean, why should the USADA do that to them?...what gave the USADA the right to affect clean riders this way, to have half a season, or more be poisoned by proven dopers ?...they are supposed to keep the sport clean, not assist dopers, and that they did, did G. H. not have "his day", his last race day, to be cheered as a "clean rider" as he crossed the finish, as people celebrated his "great career", which as the USADA knew was based on doping, according to their own documents released today....are you ok with that ?... because I'm not, and I'm sure a lot of people from that day, have a sour taste in their mouth from cheering him home....when he should have been suspended, the evidence was there, from his own mouth, and from others.

If you needed the USADA to tell you that George had doped in his career you are the one that is delusional.
 
Re: A Question Only [jmh] [ In reply to ]
 
Bye bye Johan.

Suffer Well.
 
Re: A Question Only [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
 
It's just sad that everyone was doing it so LA doesn't seem to be a villain here in my mind.


So you're okay with him starting a Foundation for cancer and using the image of benevolence to distract from his real persona as a cheat and liar? I don't despise Lance just for taking drugs anymore than I despise other athletes who were caught, I can understand the pressure and drive to win when you know that others that you should be beating are winning due to drugs.

He is a villain for the way he coerced others to toe the line, how he intimidated anyone willing to speak out and how he threatened lawsuits against journalists and others who were simply telling the truth. All the while he paints himself as someone with credibility and as someone worthy of praise and respect. Lance created the myth of Lance and he felt he was above the law which is a far cry from others who simply took drugs without constantly preaching about their own innocence.
.
 
Re: A Question Only [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
 
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Devlin wrote:
So...what exactly are you trying to imply?
John


I'm not trying to imply anything.

But I think wiggins might be trying to imply something about the omertĂ ...

Ah, gotcha. I wasn't tracking what you were saying for some reason. :/

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: A Question Only [FJB] [ In reply to ]
 
I wonder if Lance didn't come back from cancer and if he was a just a normal team boss if that would color all this differently in my mind. If you're trying to keep something buried then people will do almost anything to keep it buried so that's not unique to Lance. Look at Tyler when he was first popped and Landis...but they did finally come around to confessing.

It's just hard to grasp with that cancer part of his career arc and this look at the doping. It's a big "I don't know what to think" for me.
 
Re: A Question Only [FJB] [ In reply to ]
 
x2
 
i lost all the reasons i idolized lance [ In reply to ]
 
As a young guy who is pretty involved in cycling, its hard to still look up to a guy surrounded by such controversy. La is really causing a divide amongst so many areas of sport is his presence productive. Those who turn a blind eye for lance are why this sport is impacted so greatly by all this. You wouldn't want your team smoking crack so why is it OK la used drugs to win??? Btw I wouldn't even own a bike if I never heard the name la. I'm drawing the line, he might as well sniff one. Drug free slowness. . . . Doing good does not negate being a liar/cheat, he knows he did wrong.
 
Re: A Question Only [masterslacker] [ In reply to ]
 
I wonder if Lance didn't come back from cancer and if he was a just a normal team boss if that would color all this differently in my mind.


I think that is part of the mystique and why so many cling to believing beyond any common sense that he is innocent. His is an incredible story and it would be nice to believe someone could come back from cancer and then win one of the most difficult races in the world, and do it all while others have to take drugs and still can't beat you. It's a fairly tale and people love happy endings.

I can only answer for myself but I don't have any particular animosity to Ben Johnson, Tyler Hamilton or Floyd to be honest. I was disappointed in each of them but do understand the pressure to win. I can relate to Ben Johnson because sprinting was his whole life and he had a choice to make. As Charlie Francis said he can take drugs and be on the same starting line as everyone else or not take them and move his starting blocks a meter or two backwards. I can also understand the cyclists who compete within a code of silence and feel they have to take drugs to keep up with everyone else. I think in their cases I felt more disgust with the culture than them as individuals. It was the team doctors, the trainers and everyone else involved in the cover up that deserved a lot of the blame.


Lance is different though and mainly because of his own brashness and arrogance and more specifically his intimidation of anyone who spoke out against him. He is as easy to hate for his personality as he is to admire for his athletic ability and he really brings out very strong feelings in many people. I find it disgusting the way he made himself look good by using his Foundation. If he kept his mouth shut and just went about his business I think I would again be very critical of the sport and the enablers but would be far more understanding of his choices.
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
 
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
The Guardian wrote:
Does triathlon use the passport system? If not, doesn't this mean that testing is totally worthless?


Essentially, yes. Most standard testing is remarkably easy to circumvent.

I wouldn't say remarkedly easy. The guys circumventing it are buying expensive equipment and have Dr's more or less on call. LA is rumored to have paid Ferrari over a million.

That kind of sophistication is beyond AGers, who most likely go to an anti aging docter or gets stuff from a buddy, and most likely beyond all but a few Pro triathletes.. Look at how many pros did test positive even with lots of help.

Styrrell
 
Re: USADA/Lance Armstrong File Official Thread [AJHull] [ In reply to ]
 
AJHull wrote:
I think it is fair to assume that anyone that was that consumed with doping and lying for that many years would not bring it to an end once they entered triathlon.

I wish I could place a bet that he was doped for his last year of triathlon. That only seems logical. There as no reason for him to stop and he was clearly in contact with the doping doctor.
Do you also believe all his team mates are lying about quitting doping in 2006?
 
Re: i lost all the reasons i idolized lance [k.w.crater] [ In reply to ]
 
Drug free slowness.


Now that is hitting too close to home..
 
Re: i lost all the reasons i idolized lance [k.w.crater] [ In reply to ]
 
k.w.crater wrote:
As a young guy who is pretty involved in cycling, its hard to still look up to a guy surrounded by such controversy. La is really causing a divide amongst so many areas of sport is his presence productive. Those who turn a blind eye for lance are why this sport is impacted so greatly by all this. You wouldn't want your team smoking crack so why is it OK la used drugs to win??? Btw I wouldn't even own a bike if I never heard the name la. I'm drawing the line, he might as well sniff one. Drug free slowness. . . . Doing good does not negate being a liar/cheat, he knows he did wrong.

Nobody says you have to still look up to him. It's hard when your personal hero's turn out to have feet of clay. Throw your support behind the riders coming up like Taylor and Teejay, with any luck they haven't been sucked into the doping.

John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
 
Re: Daniel Coyle tweet [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
 
styrrell wrote:
Look at how many pros did test positive even with lots of help.

Or, maybe, ... look at how many pros did not test positive.

And ya gotta wonder how many positives were due to the UCI getting inside info from some of their 'friends' in the peloton ... ?

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Re: A Question Only [Devlin] [ In reply to ]
 
I think the implication he made is that it seems that the sky train looks strangely similar to the USPS train.
 

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