With all due respect, that is complete nonsense. By not saying anything or helping to disclose what went on they are equally culpable and implicitly claiming they were clean. So what if they were 'smaller fish', which is just a euphemism for poorer riders. Why should they get a free pass?

Quote:

Cycling fans like me may have doubts about all the winners of the TDF since LA, but none of them have gotten up on the soapbox like Lance making a big deal about being clean.

What about Contador? You think he has fessed up to everything he's taken? He's a doper too but I very much enjoyed watching the Vuelta this year and would be disappointed if he were eliminated from cycling.

Quote:

Cycling still as many problems, but there was never going to be any real healing until the biggest boil on its neck got lanced.

Without rigorous testing accompanied by the blood passport program, nothing will change independent of what happens to LA. It's more difficult, but not impossible, to dope now and that is due only to the framework in place for testing. Strengthen the framework to the point where gains from doping are small to insignificant and that will be good enough or me. I don't need perfection.

Just a couple of things:

Just because you are a WADA signatory now doesn't mean you have to be one forever. I haven't missed this. WTC like any company can do whatever they want. If that means blowing off WADA as well as USADA in favor of a different testing regimen there is no reason this should be a problem. Let's face it, WADA's record in catching cheats is lousy or they would have "cleaned up" cycling long ago.

As far as there being an analytical positive in the report that any lawyer worth his salt couldn't tear to shreds, please point it out to me. There was a post earlier where an attorney said that most of what was presented in the report was so poor that he "wished he was still a trial attorney".

I believe that Lance Armstrong doped. I also believe he will never admit it. All I'm saying is that after a substantial penalty and under a certain set of circumstances he could race again. I, personally, wouldn't mind seeing it.

Brian

BS. How did they 'know' he was cheating yet not know anyone else was?


Lots of people "knew". Go back and read the books written about Lance, the masseuse's comments, the 1999 positive tests, the amount of times Lance threatened lawsuits etc. Now you have comments coming from riders (David Miller for example) saying that of course they all knew what was going on. The public, or more specifically those who refused to accept it, are the ones who refused to believe the accusations but a lot of writers and people with inside knowledge have always known. Lance just made it impossible for individuals to take him down because of his wealth and team of lawyers. A lot of the reporters and journalists wanted to be the ones to finally tell the truth and many did but many simply refused to believe.

Let me start by saying that I believe that Lance doped.


You're really going out on a limb with that... :)

You missed my point. They also 'knew' about all the other riders who were doping but didn't choose to accuse or write about them. They write about the successful dopers and ignore the rest. You don't think GH would have come out with his lawyers had he been accused of doping in 2002?

The 'smoke' which caused Walsh and others to accuse and write about Lance doesn't appear out of thin air. It takes digging and research which is applied to the biggest fish, in this case LA.

Sarcasm, like jokes, is much funnier when you have to explain it.


That's just too good for pink.

I would imagine that UCI/team HQ's/sponsors are all scrambling a bit right now.


I agree. I did read Nike is standing by Lance but that is often a knee-jerk reaction and the amount of press and public reaction will be the deciding factor of course. I sense based on comments from other riders (Fabian and David Miller to name two) that this is gaining steam and not going away soon.

Naw, I just don't want to be seen as an unrepentant fan boy. :)

Now I just think the whole thing sucks.

Now I just think the whole thing sucks.

Eight words that sum up everything quite nicely.

you know it was said in jest...


We need a colour for jest too....maybe yellow? With all the Livestrong armbands being thrown away we could use more yellow.

Just came back from Cycling News reading the Bruyneel dismissal story and this was one of the ads at the bottom of the page: http://www.powercranks.com/Lance.html

You missed my point. They also 'knew' about all the other riders who were doping but didn't choose to accuse or write about them. They write about the successful dopers and ignore the rest. You don't think GH would have come out with his lawyers had he been accused of doping in 2002?


OK, you have a good point. I agree they went after Lance far more aggressively but they usually do with the top guys. Ben Johnson was the most tested athlete in the world from 1980 to pre-Seoul partially because they tested the medal winners in each race and he won all of them. There were lots of journalists and others searching around for evidence of drug use, even going through his garbage and writing articles and I don't remember anyone doing that with the lesser known stars of the day (eg. Frankie Fredericks of Namibia).

I guess that is part of the deal when you are a superstar, people want to take you down.

so, while i don't agree that any of this justifies anything, Lance impacted many of us in ways that we can only begin to think about now, how different would our lives be if a brash American kid from Texas never won 7 TDFs?

This is the problem I have, it's always about Lance.

I wonder who different the lives would be for those riders who never got a chance to win the TDF because of people like Lance who cheated. There will be athletes with class and character who decided not to cheat and we will never know their names. They are the ones I feel badly for, not the ones who cheated to enrich themselves of money and fame.

Well I have been around in ri's longer than that and cycling and running even farther. Got my first nice wheels in 85. Still have my orange veloflex sew-up kit. Still have a bike with c-record and superbe. I am against Lance. So what the hell does that mean....How long you been in sport?. If longer is that why your a Lance lover. Has to do with time in sport?

Interesting take from Steve Tilford http://stevetilford.com/?p=22105
"I Have to call Bullshit"

Brilliant.

I wonder who different the lives would be for those riders who never got a chance to win the TDF because of people like Lance who cheated.

Well, it would appear that the list of "those riders" would be rather miniscule, based on all accounts of how widespread doping was...

no the list would be long of all those that never made the pro ranks ////I feel I was cheated out of a ride on the tour and cheated out of a better living — and I’m no different to any rider at that time who took the decision not to dope and was not as successful as they should have been as a result,” wrote Smith. “As Lance was coming into the sport, cycling was starting to boom. There was serious money to be made and all those who went with Lance made serious money.”////
from this article http://velonews.competitor.com/...ng-dictionary_260740
Had a friend who quit when leaving jr's when he realized he would have to dope. Now a tri pro

If not for the USADA, Lance would have brought the sewer to triathlon and your friend would have had to switch to pro lawn bowling.

Triathlon dodged a bullet here.

Most powerful thing I've read in a while.
Well done.

Brad

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3SIXTY5cycling.com

Triathlon drug use is just below cycling. In 2009 3% of the samples were positive. There was no bullet dogded.

You truly think that triathlon dopes just as much as cycling?

John

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Never said as much. I was saying it was right below cycling in 2009. That is a fact. If you don't think drugs are being used in triathons then you are hiding your head in the sand. <--Looks like doping in cycling ending in 2006 -->pink

How could you tell one way or the other?

Kenny I have no idea what you are talking about. But I've been running and cycling since 1979 and did my first triathlon in 1983.

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