They could be subject of an ongoing investigation?

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http://www.bobswims.com/

"If you didn't swallow water in your last open water race, you weren't racing"

Three potential reasons:

1. Ongoing investigations.
2. Riders are from countries outside the US, and will need to be sanctioned by the NADA in their country.
3. Not enough evidence; could have only been mentioned by one rider and couldnt be corroborated, or they had corroboration but investigation didn't lead to evidence of doping inside the SOL.

I think the whole thing is a waste of time and money. Obviously Lance was juiced to the gills, but he also never got caught. He didn't get caught by the rules that were in place at the time. If they don't like it, then they should do a better job of catching people in competition. Getting them a decade after the fact under different rules seems weak.

They had "rules" on how to catch? Can you list those rules please. Like to read them. Are they USADA or UCI or WADA rules.?

Ok lets discuss Lemond. What races are suspect? The bad Giro then comes on to win? Very Very explainable if you watched those races and was aware what was going on with injuries ect....Other races? Which ones

Wow you think so little of these athletes that all they can become is janitors (not that there is anything wrong with being a janitor)?

Wow so no one is responsible for doping except Lance. Those poor kids :(

That's right...ignore the point. I hadn't read much of this thread until now. Had I read some of your previous idiotic posts, I wouldn't have bothered replying.
You seem to have an aversion to logical thinking. Also, I just don't think you know much about pro cycling. Go read (big assumption) Tylers book and maybe you'll get a little perspective
on the hows and whys.

Straw man?

How far outside logic can you possibly go? Can you try again?

Sorry, - oversimplifying and over-exaggerating someone's position in order to make it more easily defeated is not sound reason (straw man). And, - juvenile.

Just to make the point again. We're not talking about doping, - we're talking about Facilitating it. After two attempts, - it sounds like you're not understanding that issue.

Why not stay on point?

Gosh....

I just noticed how far off point that person went in response to your posts as well. Yipes.....

Didn't notice by the other posts if he is a Lance "tool" or not. But goodness, you nailed it pretty well.

So, just because a person is well connected enough to have access to the best doping doctor, monopolize that doctor for his team and a near unlimited supply of the drugs / bloodwork that support a doping regime of this magnatude they should just ignore it? No. In fact, just the opposite; these are the kinds of practices that need to be thwarted if the sport is ever going to come out of the dark.

The UCI never reported his passport to the blood passport committee; if they had, the people on the committee at the time have said it would have been a positive. Its not so much as the rules were bad but rather than the system was corrupted by an athlete with money and connections to avoid prosecution.

Some of these doped before joining Armstrongs team and doped after. You can't blame him for that. Heck maybe these others provided drugs to other bikers. We don't know as that was not part of the confessions. ... It is all about Doping and covering it up. You can't be just a little guilty.

Let's also push and make sure UCI has to answer for it's actions.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

He has the quality that makes you feel like you're in a political debate. Doesn't care what he's saying...he just 'knows' stuff and likes to go on about it.

absolutely. Did you see the text exchange between Hein and a european newspaper? Hein said there's no evidence. he said the entire thing constitutes no evidence. It's an incredible position to take; Hein and Pat need replaced. The UCI leadership is a farce.

Actually havent seen much of anything regarding UCI (ETA: I've just kinda laid low and waiting for UCI's response to all of this at this point now). I'm guessing they'll continue to try and stonewall. It'll be a sad affair if Lance goes down (along with what seems like showing full coruptness on people in charge), and UCI doesnt make changes. That's the one good thing that I can see from all of this. Hopefully it really starts to clean up the BS.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I never said ignore it. I have no problem with athletes being tested and pursued while in competition. I don't like chasing people down a decade after the fact. If I am speeding in my car, it's only fair to get a ticket from the cop that catches me. It's not fair to mail me a ticket 10 years after the fact. There is a reason that our legal system has a Statute of Limitations. For a system to be fair, justice needs to be timely. It's unfair for people to have to defend themselves indeterminately.

The fact that he had the best juice and the best doctors isn't relevant in my mind. Somebody is always going to have the best.

He cheated in my mind, but not so blatantly that he got caught like others did.

No I can't. I am referring to the system and program of testing that was in place at the time. They did what they were able to do at the time to test athletes and check them for cheating. They didn't get him with whatever program they had in place at the time. It's only now that they can piece together evidence. I think it's too little, too late. Let's sleeping dogs lie, or in his case race Kona.

Thank you for taking the time to write out a better explanation of your thoughts.

Appreciate that.......

I agree with the logic behind that, especially if you're saying that no one dopes alone, and it might be a blurry line between what is sanctioned by a group, and (even) team management.

ONE, (and notice I say one), of the problems that I have with vilifying Barry Bonds is that the SF Giants did more than look the other way.

Barry Bonds is an a$$HOLE just like Lance. And based on all of the evidence, there is MORE, and A LOT, of evidence that Lance was in a different class than those others who used, and went beyond. That doesn't mean to say that they're not wrong.

But there are always degrees of wrong. Some crimes are worse than others, some crimes deserve greater and more severe punishments than others. More facts need to, and will, come out. We will find out that some people did worse things than others.

I'm too lazy to look it up so I'll just ask the ST experts. I thought 1st offense gets you 2 years suspension; the second offense 8 years, like "the Cobra", so why is Lance banned for life? some people get reduced sentences after cooperating, so instead of two years you get 1 year or six months like the garmin bunch.

Hein is squirming now; he now claims his statements where "unfortunately stated" and "misunderstood". The guy makes you feel bad for being associated through citizenship with him.

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Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

He is banned for life because he didn't cooperate. There is no set time as they can ban any amount of time they want. Which is why all these dopers got 6 months even if they were caught before. So one should have been 8 years and still got 6 months.

You are correct, and I *think* the reasoning for Lance's ban has to do with all the evidence and the severity of the charges (I think because it seems like it has been shown he doped early and late in his career). Along with it being proved that he was more than simply a doper, he also pushed for others to dope, and I think that had to do with the length of penalty.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Please explain Lemond. EPO was FDA approved in 1989. I'm not saying he used it, but it places him as TDF winner during the EPO era. Now read about Otto Jacome, and his iron transfusion. When your done sit down and read about hematopoesis. If I go further, I'll wind up in Slowmans penalty box.
I also watched every stage of the '89 Giro, and have friends who rode the '89 Giro, and saw him suffer.

If you have any evidence that Lemond doped, we'd all love to see it. Questioning a race result as unusual is not evidence, it is rumor-mongering.

It has been nearly 20 years since Lemond retired....and over 30 since his professional career started. There has never been a single piece of actual evidence that he doped. Not one.

I have no idea whether he doped or not....I suppose to wouldn't shock me if he did. But until I see some actual evidence, he'll continue to get the benefit of the doubt from me.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

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