If he kept his mouth shut and just went about his business I think I would again be very critical of the sport and the enablers but would be far more understanding of his choices.
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Or do the GH approach. Make people think you are going about your business, all quiet on the doping front, but still employing some questionable bullying type tactics behind the scenes. So I think alot of this is showing is that appearances can be very deceiving (spelling). But GH is loved because he was never brash like Lance, and that's why Lance is so hated. Hell, he's my favorite rider because he was the good lieuntant, the good rider who could never win that pave or big classic race. He was always the nice guy that we could root for, but turns out whether nice, brash, they are all cheats.

As I said last night, I just hope this generation of athletes is able to ride with an easier conscious and not have the pressures of doping or not being a pro biker. The career defining decisions that many athletes had to face, must have been hard as hell to make. Do you dope and become a biker or do you try your best on your natural talents, and likely get pissed down the drain to the local cat series of races.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Interesting opinion which I think is a pretty accurate one..... Pro or Anti Lance.....kind of is the truth.
http://ideas.time.com/...-choice-but-to-dope/

"It’s a waste of time and money to prosecute seasoned pros – of any sport— for past doping offenses. It is already too late and the guys are damaged goods, having been initiated into doping culture at a young age. The only way to change the culture is to focus on developing, and most importantly, educating and closely monitoring young riders in clean, healthy athletic habits. As, ironically, we’ve successfully done in cycling over the past five years. It takes time, does not garner scintillating headlines, but is the only way."

The scarier thing is that doping is not only in sports, but in academics as well: http://www.nytimes.com/....html?pagewanted=all

So now should we be taking away SAT scores for kids that are doping for academics?
Hate to say it, but I get the feeling that doping is going to become more wide spread in our world that less.....not talking cycling specific. I just read an article a month or so ago on a new doping technique that is UNDETECTABLE - don't think that will find it's way into this any many other sports.

Technology is creating a down hill battle folks!

Michael

What make you think GH, or any of the others you seem to give a free pass to, would have behaved any differently than LA had they been attacked or written about in the media? LA was a lightening rod for journalists because of his success and did what he felt was necessary to continue. The others would have done the same in similar circumstances.

I think it's better that he started the foundation and put time and effort into making it a success than sitting on his ass and getting fat.

Would like to read your links, but they both seem to go to the same page ...

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That kind of attitude is what got us into this mess in the first place. The enablers who were part of Armstrong's 'system' were allowed to continue working in the sport and pushing dope on a new generation of athletes.

This isn't just about the doped riders like LA. It's about guys like Bruyneel, Ferrari, and even Verbruggen and McQuaid.

I think your first link is broken as it finds the NY times story on adderall. I'd be interested in reading the full story that included the quote you provided. Was it Time magazine? http://ideas.time.com/...-choice-but-to-dope/

Maybe they're scared. Maybe they know about the things that are going on within the sport and figure if antidoping authorities can take down Lance, they're not safe either and had better at least look like they're addressing the issue before any shit hits their particular fan.

The one absent name is Lim. I am surprised he is never mentioned especially given his connection to Garmin and then RSNT.


Good for him, I like his new cookbook. If is truly clean, then I am happy.

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-- Aaron Davidson

I have not really thought about it, but I do think it would be hard to go back to racing clean once a person goes to the dark side. However, if I am not mistaken, their results were subpar after being on Lance's team. Subpar meaning below what they achieved on Lance's team. Perhaps they no longer felt controlled and were able to escape the godfather.

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Adrian in Vancouver

Scared of what? Unless they are providing doping, what could USADA possibly do except retract any certification? Great. They are private equity. They don't need USADA/ITU certification or blessing. At the prices they charge with the success they have, they just keep on trucking along. There are probably very few people that would even care.

John

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Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

I thought in some cases their results got better. GH was still riding pretty well as a 40 yr old.

What make you think GH, or any of the others you seem to give a free pass to, would have behaved any differently than LA had they been attacked or written about in the media?

I wasn't giving anyone a free pass. I think all athletes caught using drugs should be banned for life and have always said that. I said I understand the reasons for taking PED's and would do the same for Lance but he used his Foundation to give the public a false image of himself to detract from his real persona. The media had strong doubts and wrote about it and as it turns out it wasn't all a "French conspiracy" or the "jealous people" who were drawing attention to him. They were right all along and Lance knew it.

LA was a lightening rod for journalists because of his success

No, he was a lightning rod because they knew he was a cheat but they couldn't pin him down because of the threats from Lance and his inner circle. Miguel Indurain and others had a lot of success without the constant accusations because Indurain kept his mouth shut and wasn't out there pounding his own chest and threatening lawsuits to anyone who spoke up.

The others would have done the same in similar circumstances.


There have been lots of past champions and none acted like Lance.

I think it's better that he started the foundation and put time and effort into making it a success than sitting on his ass and getting fat.

Ha ha ha. I think there are lots of things to do between stating a foundation and sitting on your ass and getting fat. I have no problem with someone starting a foundation of course but when they use that Foundation to distract the public in presenting a wholesome image it disgusts me.

Yes, every USAT member is subject to testing. I dont believe we're subject to OOC without being notified we're on the list. If a single test including epo is $500, if you take a $10 one time increase (meaning USAT fees are permanently increased by $10/yr but are specifically earmarking that $10 towards testing), that lets you take 3000 tests a year. That covers all your age group race testing, IMO. Test at major races for podiums, set up OOC for the all-americans, etc, in USAT rankings. If you have RDs chip in another $10 per race fee, and make it industry wide, then you can really get some shit done.

None of the grand jury testimony was used in the USADA case.

BS. How did they 'know' he was cheating yet not know anyone else was? They wrote about him because he was winning.

Indurain kept his mouth shut because there were no journalists attacking him while he was winning. If they had, the lawsuits would have surely been there.

correct

I think you're wrong. I think a lot of people would and do care and it would be very bad business to have a major doping scandal in IM.

Did I read correctly that someone was sitting in on the USADA meetings between the riders to listen to what they had to say, in case they changed their story or whatever. I cant remember if I read that as actual fact or just a post from someone.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

fixed

http://ideas.time.com/...-choice-but-to-dope

Haven't heard that. USADA stated pretty clearly that they didn't use any of the grand jury testimony and instead got all their own testimony 'fresh' from the riders.

Levi specifically talks about how he didn't have to come forward. He wanted to. You think 6 months vs. 2 years really matters for a bunch of guys at the end of their careers? What about Hincapie? He's already retired.

What's worse for him - going up against Lance, his 'brother', and risking all that the LA legal/smear machine can bring at him, or taking a 2 year ban when he's already retired?

These guys had very little to gain by testifying. USADA for the most part didn't have much to threaten them with.

Thank you for your illuminating thoughts. After all the crap us Yankees have said about the French during the Armstrong years, I must now say, Viva la France! and Allez le blues!!

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Yes, there was a representative from the Fed's there making sure the USADA testimony was accurate as to what was given in the Fed's case.

That still doesn't mean that the riders were any more compelled to say anything. What would the feds have done if they just hadn't picked up the phone?

So you think all these riders came truthful because they wanted to get it off their chest? They simply wanted to do this for the betterment (not sure if that's a word) of the sport? You dont think there was any pressure from their GJ testimony at all?

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Only read your response, so sorry if off thread, but both Levi and George have something to gain - Levi thinks he can still race and both of them have a commercial post cycling potential they want to exploit, Levi has movies/rides now, and George has his clothing company and wants to continue to work in cycling.