I take it to make sure the testimony didn't change one way or another

Absolutely. Agree with that.

For the rest of it - why are we even arguing this point? If Levi and GH made a cost-benefit analysis and figured that testifying was better for them personally than not testifying (for business, career, or just ethical reasons - or no good reason at all even) - does that change the complexion of the case in any significant way?

I don't think that it does.

It will be interesting to see how well these sell in view of what's going on now.

http://www.hincapie.com/...ear/jerseys/R800M12/

---

Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Good point! There were some RadioShack replica jerseys on chainlove for 65 dollars three days ago, went to 35 dollars yesterday.

One thing I was suprised not to see in the report was anything about the "we don't think you are an official tester so Lance is going to jump in the shower and leave you outside while we delay a 1/2 hour and call your boss" incident outstide Lances apartment in Nice.

Johan fired by Radio Shack.

Was it a righteous firing? Did he get process?

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

"These guys had very little to gain by testifying. USADA for the most part didn't have much to threaten them with."

Except that if what they said to USADA wasn't congruent with the GJ testimonies, that might raise some federal investigators' eyebrows. I think once they had testified to the GJ, it was pretty well a given that they would say the same thing to USADA's investigators.

He wasn't fired. They are just ending their mutual collaboration..

Process? What coach ever gets "process" when they are canned, in any sport?

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

That's definitely true, but that doesn't mean they had to show up and testify at all, does it?

And as I said above - what does it matter? Does it change the complexion of the Armstrong case in any meaningful way?

That would be a good halloween costume for a cycling group. Get a Radio Shack jersey, an IV bag and some IV tubing and you are good to go!

please don't make me beat you about the head and shoulders with a big pink wiffle ball bat.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

"Was it a righteous firing? Did he get process?"

Do you always telegraph your wild roundhouse jabs?

Who gives a shit. It's an RS internal and contractual issue, even if you, me and a bunch of others agree it's appropo given the external situation.

Back in July in an email thread between firends we were spitballing the most insane conspiracy theories we could come up with to push the telenovella of drugs in cycling out even further. My contribution:

"Frank is currently not getting paid. The team management (including the ever-odious Bruyneel), hate him. He's in open discussions to take himself and his brother to Astana. He's due to talk to Astana on the very same rest day that he gets popped. We know French labs are corrupt and Bruyneel's message of "support" is every bit as calculated and qualified as you'd expect (http://www.cyclingnews.com/...el-stands-by-schleck). We only have an A sample so far and the first words out of an apparently sincerely shocked Frank's mouth after the poppage are "I've been poisoned." Duh, duh duuh...."

And now L'Equipe is reporting [EDIT - should really read "speculating" - no love for Bruyneel but trying to be fair] that Johan may, in fact, have doped Frank. I guess I have to adjust my insane conspiracy theories settings.

---

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

That's a good question. Were they asked/requested to testify to GJ or did they do it on their own? Assuming they were asked/requested, they likely had to come clean or else each guy's testimony could have been used against the other for lying under oath.

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Here's where I might finally get myself in trouble. Let me start by saying that I believe that Lance doped. Bums me out, but there it is.

My understanding based on the interview that Andrew Messick gave when the original Armstrong charging letter came out is that Armstrong was suspended under a rule that said that if you are under investigation you are suspended. He went on to say that he did not think that this rule was appropriate for the circumstances, but that it would not be fair to change it in mid-year. He said that he asked the President of WTC to gather all of the rules that did not appear to be accomplishing what they were supposed to and that they would be discussed and changed if necessary after the end of the WTC year. I felt as though Messick's answers were (to use a term) reasoned and cogent.

WTC has now been presented with the USADA findings. They are responsible for implementing any ban or suspension just as any of the other controlling bodies are. The main difference here is that WTC is not a governing body. It is a company that elected to use the USADA to assist in doping controls. People have shown that USADA has not done a very good job of this for WTC. Following a review of the information provided by USADA and a serious conversation with their attorneys, my belief is this:

WTC will fire the USADA in their role as doping authority inasmuch as they have admitted as part of the Armstrong case they cannot provide an analytical positive. WTC will do its best to put together a legitimate anti-doping procedure using independent experts and reliable laboratories.

Testing will increase for the athletes who have signed pro contracts.

Costs for testing age groupers will be limited due to the fact that they do not draw publicity to the WTC. Doping may be an issue in the AG's, but the issue will simply will not be of sufficient concern to the WTC. The elite AGs will probably be pissed by this, but I bet the money will just not be spent.

Lance Armstrong will be allowed to race after a legitimate suspension that may actually be long enough to keep him from being a real factor an competitions.

LA will agree to be tested everyday 365/7 if requested. If he wants 365 tests, then I think that WTC should give them to him with complete transparency for everyone to look at and analyze. Personally, I think that he should find a legitimate scholarly program that needs a lab rat to study regarding physiology and let them carry the costs for at least a part of this. This would be a win/win situation. They pick up the tab and we get to see know how this guy's body ticks at 41 after going through cancer, intense exercise,etc.

LA will be forced to sign a definitive document stating under power of perjury that he will sever all ties fully and completely with any banned individuals and any of their intermediaries. This document should be legally enforceable.

LA will be forced to sign a definitive document stating under power of perjury that he will not under any circumstances use PED's or circumstances related to using a PED whether or not said substance or use is on any banned list of any doping organization.

I think that LA will agree to donate any and all prize money he makes to Livestrong.

This all means too much for the WTC to leave behind. The publicity and participation numbers will go through the roof. If the above recommendations are put into place, no one will be able to say that WTC is giving in to LA or any one else. For an independent company, I think that this is a win/win for themselves.

JMHO $0.02 as a humble peon.

Brian

http://road.cc/...johan-bruyneel-again

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

are you color blind? P. I. N. K.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

"That would be a good halloween costume for a cycling group"

It's been done....a lot. Just substitute Mapei, ONCE, Telekom, Festina or any 90s pro cycling kit.

I still say Tygart was doing a bit of grandstanding to try and paint USPS/Discovery as "the most sophisticated......." Per the report, they were certainly well funded and organized. And they had some very focused individuals. But let's not pretend the same thing wasn't going with Saiz, Pevanage, etc. In a sick way, it's like Tygart claiming that we even cheat bigger than the rest of the world here in the US. That may or may not be true. But we really don't have a way to compare it. There is a lot more behind the scenes from the peloton that we may never know about.

Having removed our corporate heads from the sand on USPS/Discovery, let's resist sticking it right back down in there when it comes to the rest of the sport. Everyone suddenly quit doping in 2006? I'm not buying it. Clenbutador, riding for Bruyneel comes to mind. All the more reason for Bruyneel to be gone from the sport. But not likely without some good company yet to be named or found out.

Ahh....not pink on my screen. I retract.

If you want it to be pink, you should make it pink. It came across as serious, as evidenced by the two replies you've gotten.

John

---

---

Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |

I wish Eganski were here...

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

IF WTC did that, would it lose USAT sanctioning?

---

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

I am amazed/frightened that you guys are still this interested in this topic.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Come on mate...Eric posts a lot here. It was pretty clear he was joking given his stance on the topic.