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Post deleted by BMANX [ In reply to ]
Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.

is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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She is not banned "for life" but "indefinitely." I think that leaves her open to be reinstated if she were able to provide proof of completing courses, apologize, or whatever remediation is deemed necessary by WTC.

Travis Rassat
Vector Cycle Works
Noblesville, IN
BikeFit Instructor | FMS | F.I.S.T. | IBFI
Toughman Triathlon Series Ambassador
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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Yes. You have grasped the situation well :)

Taking that time from anywhere else just shifts the issue to the swim / bike, and some might say just the bike, but that is the situation currently.

https://www.pbandjcoaching.com
https://www.thisbigroadtrip.com
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Travis R] [ In reply to ]
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Which clearly at this time she is not willing to do.
Last edited by: BMANX: Sep 7, 15 16:00
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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I would venture a guess that she has retired from sport.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Pat0] [ In reply to ]
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I want a confession of wrong doing first. Not that she owes me anything but racing in the same area, I want her to apologize then retire.
Last edited by: BMANX: Sep 7, 15 15:59
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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Am I correct in recalling that she supposedly ran 3:24 in IM Canada?

We are 4 weeks out from Kona and she has just been pulled from the start line so assume she has been training for it up to now......easy for her to prove some doubters and run a sub 3:24 since she should be in that shape now and no ride first!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ In reply to ]
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for the 4th or 5th time since starting this thread, from the first post in the thread: "from here on in i'd prefer that you limit your posts to anything that you want to say regarding the factual elements of this particular case."


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Slowman wrote:
for the 4th or 5th time since starting this thread, from the first post in the thread: "from here on in i'd prefer that you limit your posts to anything that you want to say regarding the factual elements of this particular case."

I mean this is a constructive and not snarky way. Your repeated comments about staying on topic are a bit nagging. If you would like the direction and content of the thread to go along certain lines I suggest you take a stronger hand in pruning/moderating the thread. Otherwise it is never going to stay as on topic as you wish.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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"I suggest you take a stronger hand in pruning/moderating the thread."

i take your criticism as constructive. this thread has had 92 posts pruned from it. other than nagging, and being edward scissorhands, i don't really know what else to do and allow a conversation to still be had.


Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
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Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Dan Funk] [ In reply to ]
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Dan Funk wrote:
JayPeeWhy wrote:
if Ms. Miller quits racing, I doubt it will have too big effect on her life.

I would have thought close friends, family, her husband etc would be expecting some pretty good answers. I don't think I'd simply brush it off, if I found out my wife had been systematically cheating in races for years, whilst defrauding dozens of individuals and companies.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [marcag] [ In reply to ]
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marcag wrote:
BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.

is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.

I believe that Cowman is also banned for life by USAT.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.

This raises an interesting point. I believe Sylvan from SportStats gave the % of timing chip misreads earlier. Using SportStats' failure rate would be more accurate than using the data from 3 years at one race, as the data set is much larger. Can someone much better at statistics than I am calculate the odds of an athlete experiencing legitimate malfunction in more than one race? This could potentially be something to keep an eye on in the future (one athlete who has issues in multiple races) as a red flag to dig deeper into the evidence, even if all the apparent paces are reasonable.

____________________________________________
Don Larkin
Reach For More
http://www.reachformore.fit/
USAT Lvl1 Coach, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, BS Exercise Science
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [TriMyBest] [ In reply to ]
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TriMyBest wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.


This raises an interesting point. I believe Sylvan from SportStats gave the % of timing chip misreads earlier. Using SportStats' failure rate would be more accurate than using the data from 3 years at one race, as the data set is much larger. Can someone much better at statistics than I am calculate the odds of an athlete experiencing legitimate malfunction in more than one race? This could potentially be something to keep an eye on in the future (one athlete who has issues in multiple races) as a red flag to dig deeper into the evidence, even if all the apparent paces are reasonable.
I saw a fair amount of misreads but only counted them if they missed more than 4 run splits. I'm sure SportsStats could provide similar data for all the races relatively easily. I don't think there's any question though that the probability of having 2 chips 'fall off' in different races is extremely low.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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In regard to the effect this will have on Ms. Miller's life...well Squamish is a small town (about 17,000 people). The people that supported her prior to the cheating allegations are among the most popular and influential in the community. There is no rock she can crawl under to escape the knowledge of her actions. It was front page news in the local paper, on the radio, and discussed in the business community where support for her races was generated. Her pool of friends just dried up in a hurry. Even the can't-believe-it crowd has gone quiet in the wake of the evidence. She'll have a hard time finding takers for her coaching services, and her employment as a person that counsels youth could come into question given the way the allegations strike at the core of her virtues. So, yeah it could have quite an effect on her life (not just racing but also the other stuff that goes along with it). One might ask if it is fair for the punishment to extend beyond her racing life, but the stigma may also serve as a warning to others that contemplate similar strategies.
Last edited by: ashroadadam: Sep 7, 15 20:09
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [gregf83] [ In reply to ]
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gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.

There is an additional factor that lost chips seem to happen disproportionately when someone has a great race (say a top1% performance based on their ability as indicated by previous results). Lost chips don't seem to happen as much to the person who posts a 5:30 walk/jog marathon after overbiking; though if they were truly random events you would expect them to be evenly distributed among good, average, and poor performances.

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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I'm deducing that clearly timing chips hold people back. Must be the extra weight...
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [cougie] [ In reply to ]
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cougie wrote:
I'm deducing that clearly timing chips hold people back. Must be the extra weight...
Not just extra weight but ROTATING WEIGHT!!!
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [ashroadadam] [ In reply to ]
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She's a coach? This is the first that I've heard about this. What does she coach?

ashroadadam wrote:
In regard to the effect this will have on Ms. Miller's life...well Squamish is a small town (about 17,000 people). The people that supported her prior to the cheating allegations are among the most popular and influential in the community. There is no rock she can crawl under to escape the knowledge of her actions. It was front page news in the local paper, on the radio, and discussed in the business community where support for her races was generated. Her pool of friends just dried up in a hurry. Even the can't-believe-it crowd has gone quiet in the wake of the evidence. She'll have a hard time finding takers for her coaching services, and her employment as a person that counsels youth could come into question given the way the allegations strike at the core of her virtues. So, yeah it could have quite an effect on her life (not just racing but also the other stuff that goes along with it). One might ask if it is fair for the punishment to extend beyond her racing life, but the stigma may also serve as a warning to others that contemplate similar strategies.


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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Titanflexr wrote:
gregf83 wrote:
Not replying to you just adding some facts which I hadn't seen reported.

I looked at the 2013-2015 IMs at Whistler and found 2 other ranked finishers with missing run splits:

2013 - 1629 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2014 - 1684 finishers, 0 finishers missing splits
2015 - 1503 finishers, 2 finishers missing splits

Probability of having a defective or missing timing chip would seem to be around .04%.
Probability of completing 2 races with defective or missing chips: 1.7 x 10^-7 or about twice as likely as dying in a plane crash.


There is an additional factor that lost chips seem to happen disproportionately when someone has a great race (say a top1% performance based on their ability as indicated by previous results). Lost chips don't seem to happen as much to the person who posts a 5:30 walk/jog marathon after overbiking; though if they were truly random events you would expect them to be evenly distributed among good, average, and poor performances.
I'm not sure there's any evidence, other than JM, to support this. The only two others to lose, or have, defective chips finished 7th and 25th in their AG.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [zoom] [ In reply to ]
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zoom wrote:
She's a coach? This is the first that I've heard about this. What does she coach?

ashroadadam wrote:
In regard to the effect this will have on Ms. Miller's life...well Squamish is a small town (about 17,000 people). The people that supported her prior to the cheating allegations are among the most popular and influential in the community. There is no rock she can crawl under to escape the knowledge of her actions. It was front page news in the local paper, on the radio, and discussed in the business community where support for her races was generated. Her pool of friends just dried up in a hurry. Even the can't-believe-it crowd has gone quiet in the wake of the evidence. She'll have a hard time finding takers for her coaching services, and her employment as a person that counsels youth could come into question given the way the allegations strike at the core of her virtues. So, yeah it could have quite an effect on her life (not just racing but also the other stuff that goes along with it). One might ask if it is fair for the punishment to extend beyond her racing life, but the stigma may also serve as a warning to others that contemplate similar strategies.


Orienteering.
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [craigj532] [ In reply to ]
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craigj532 wrote:
marcag wrote:
BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.


is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.


I believe that Cowman is also banned for life by USAT.

In reality, how is someone actually banned? For years I've directed a USAT-sanctioned and never has USAT provided me a blacklist of banned athletes. There's nothing in our registration system from stopping Cowman or Julie Miller or newbz or whoever from signing up. There's nothing in our volunteer training that would have them screen out these people when they show up. How, exactly, do these lifetime bans actually work in practice?
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Re: IM Canada F40-44: new thread [kny] [ In reply to ]
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Are people not required to show their current license?

kny wrote:
craigj532 wrote:
marcag wrote:
BMANX wrote:
And nor will she ever unless she books a holiday there.


is she banned for life or is there a process/time limit for her to be eligible ?

Kind of strange that the only two banned for life would be LA and JM.


I believe that Cowman is also banned for life by USAT.


In reality, how is someone actually banned? For years I've directed a USAT-sanctioned and never has USAT provided me a blacklist of banned athletes. There's nothing in our registration system from stopping Cowman or Julie Miller or newbz or whoever from signing up. There's nothing in our volunteer training that would have them screen out these people when they show up. How, exactly, do these lifetime bans actually work in practice?
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