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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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You forgot tiny biceps!

Brian Stover USAT L1
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Just chiming in when I can between classes...

First off, I had an interesting and not too uncommon situation were my baseline changed. My "optimal position" was achieved during run #3 after rotating extensions up slightly and dropping 2cm with a CdA of .2447. I went back to this "optimal position" for run #8 and now had a CdA of .2512...uh oh. What I have done is assume that the CdA increased in a linear fashion between run #3 and run #8.

Pearl Izumi Tri Octane:

As you can see in the photo, I had a bunch of bunching and a ton of wrinkles on the shoulder and biceps. Surprisingly the suit actually tested neutral, 1.3 watt drag increase from optimal position baseline, and 1.3 watt drag decrease from "fatigue baseline". My theory behind the neutral test is that the sleeves were slow, but the fact that the rest of the suit was much tighter than my stretched out trisuit was fast. Plan: Tight fitting Kiwami coming soon.

Louis Garneau P09
The upset: The P09 topped the McClaren, although only by about 1/2 watt for myself. Another person was in the neutral to slightly worse when comparing the P09 to the McClaren.
Last edited by: JTolandTRI: Jan 23, 14 11:46
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info - this is great!

Any feedback on the P09 with visor versus without visor? I spoke to a couple of the LG guys at the Kona booth this past October and they said their testing showed it was aero neutral.

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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How did you determine your CdA was 0.2001? That seems low for a guy your size. What was your crr?
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [owtbac86] [ In reply to ]
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I asked Jim about this, and I believe he also posted it over in another thread, but he believed it was a slight penalty. I will strongly consider riding though as I hate riding with sunglasses, and I believe visor should be faster than no sunglasses. That's getting down to really small gains/loses though so I don't think it made the testing agenda of any riders.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Nick_Barkley] [ In reply to ]
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it was .2006. you've not seen my very, very aero biceps in person, I assure you they are underwhelming even for a kid. My wrists/forearms are undersized as well.

I know we did a roll out & weigh in. As to the math, I try hard not to do math.

I'm pretty long/extended out front and narrow. My profile pad and mounts are modified to get the pads narrower than right out of the box. I think and I'd have t measure or find my fitting sheet which is in the shed, about 20mm more narrow then stock narrowness.

Brian Stover USAT L1
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Did anyone mess with shoes?
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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JTolandTRI wrote:
I asked Jim about this, and I believe he also posted it over in another thread, but he believed it was a slight penalty. I will strongly consider riding though as I hate riding with sunglasses, and I believe visor should be faster than no sunglasses. That's getting down to really small gains/loses though so I don't think it made the testing agenda of any riders.

Appreciate the response; agree with you that I would rather ride with the visor than with the sunglasses. One of the things I noted at IMAZ in November was that with the visor I didn't spend any time pushing my sunglasses back up my nose during the ride.

If that happens 2x per hour, there's probably a quantifiable 10 - 20 seconds savings over the course of the ride, which would equate to 0.5 to 1W savings :)

Team Kiwami
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
Tom Maliszewski wrote:
Regarding suit fit, beside being tight fitting is the key point that the arms/shoulders MUST be wrinkle free or are there other aspects of how the suit fits that determines if it helps or hurts?

Thanks for sharing guys, it looks like a very interesting and cool camp to be part of!


Not completely wrinkle free as that is nearly impossible. But if the sleeves are tight on your arms and held in place down low you will have a minimum of wrinkles. The sleeves were a bit baggy on Brian and very much so on Jack. That created a lot of wrinkles all down the front of the sleeve and around the shoulder area. That pretty much killed it.

Skin is slow, wrinkles are slower?
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Herbert] [ In reply to ]
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Herbert wrote:
Did anyone mess with shoes?

One person did. They put some covers over the Specialized shoe and found them to be a bit faster. Shoe covers are weird. Sometimes they work, a lot of times they don't. That specialized tri shoe has a lot of bumps and ridges and holes.

As for testing different shoes, we all just "run what we brung".



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Did anyone test the scott split helmet?
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Tom Maliszewski] [ In reply to ]
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So when I was riding this weekend on box rims, 28mm wide cheap high rolling resistance tires wearing tights, long sleeve thermal jersey, wind vest, balcava and road helmet... so you never know... maybe that was optimum for me? My speed was not impressive for the watts i was putting out.

Pretty cool data. All I get out of it is that unless you can do accurate aero testing, it's a bit of a crap shoot.


TrainingBible Coaching
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]
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It's a bit more than a crapshoot.

Putting a Torhans 30 on pretty much anything is fast...
Last edited by: JTolandTRI: Jan 23, 14 12:35
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Any data feedback on the Castellit top? Read lost about the PI Octane, but not the Castelli. Having seen the PI up close and in person, it just seems a heavy material that would heat up on the run in the sun.

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
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chaparral wrote:
Did anyone test the scott split helmet?

No, still not available in the US yet. It has tested well for Nick Baldwin but YMMV. We just had the LG P-09 because I begged Jim to be Pierre at LG to get one to try. I'm glad I did!



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [JTolandTRI] [ In reply to ]
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JTolandTRI wrote:
It's a bit more than a crapshoot.

Putting a Torhans 30 on pretty much anything is fast...


Well not almost anything. It needs to fit close to the headtube. You had left already but it did not do well on my p5-3. It works VERY well on bikes with bayonet style headtubes. A Torhans 20 actually dropped one person's CdA down .01 on a Trek SC.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
Last edited by: Ex-cyclist: Jan 23, 14 12:49
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [AKCrafty] [ In reply to ]
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AKCrafty wrote:
Any data feedback on the Castellit top? Read lost about the PI Octane, but not the Castelli. Having seen the PI up close and in person, it just seems a heavy material that would heat up on the run in the sun.

We didn't have one to test, so no data. I didn't think the Octane material to be any thicker than what is on my Kiwami. I think they use cold black as well. At any rate I know of a several people who have raced in them without issues.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting.

Although if I was looking for front hydration with a straw, Torhans 30 would be first on my list. When it worked, it worked well.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Can you give any feedback or findings on the Fusion top? From the pics in the article, I see it was among the options tested.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
AKCrafty wrote:
Any data feedback on the Castellit top? Read lost about the PI Octane, but not the Castelli. Having seen the PI up close and in person, it just seems a heavy material that would heat up on the run in the sun.


We didn't have one to test, so no data. I didn't think the Octane material to be any thicker than what is on my Kiwami. I think they use cold black as well. At any rate I know of a several people who have raced in them without issues.

My N=1; used my Octane on the run at IMAZ in November. Worked fine, though the temperature on the run was not extreme.

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for doing this and for sharing so much valuable information. Yes ... there remain a lot of questions and a lot seems to be individual, but it's clear that it matters and some trends can be gleaned.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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I noticed at least a couple plasma 3's. Wondering how the Torhans 30 tested with that frame in particular? I have that frame and was thinking about that exact hydration setup this season.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [davetallo] [ In reply to ]
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For some people it was neutral and it worked for one person. Here is that post.

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/cgi-bin/gforum.cgi?post=4943281#4943281


It is a really quality piece and I'm pretty sure that if you had a loose 2 piece on it would be faster. Most everyone at the camp wore tops that look like they came from baby gap. Tighter is faster. Get rid of wrinkles and flapping clothing.







Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for starting this thread

Is your cda calculation based on what your individual power meter is measuring ? I assume so.

If so, is it safe to assume that your cda and my cda cannot be compared since one of our PMs may be measuring 10w more or less ? Or is there a way to compensate for this ?
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