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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Just out of curiosity, did anyone test the TYR carbon trisuit? I'm assuming it would not be as good as the PI or any suit with sleeves (assuming no wrinkles!), but just wondering if TYR carbon producing less drag than a non-carbon trisuit.

Also, I just read the CEP and Zoot calf compression sleeves may be beneficial, any input on arm sleeves? I've raced with them before during cold weather, but had no idea they would impact drag positively or negatively.

Any input is appreciated and thank you for sharing all this information.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m wrote:
good to know. I was going to get medium but at 5"10 and 150 -155 I expect the fit will not be tight enough. I'll give small a go.

I'm 6'-0" and around 155 and I went with the small. The legs/torso fit tightly but I'm getting some bunching in the shoulders. I may look into getting it tailored or experimenting with some glue product as someone previously mentioned. Maybe I should start lifting just to fill out the suit. Tags are still on so I haven't committed yet. This thread has me questioning my purchase. Damn science.

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Last edited by: santino314: Feb 2, 14 10:27
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [smarty] [ In reply to ]
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To my knowledge no one specifically tested a TYR suit. Now someone may have been using that as their suit they were testing in, which is completely different.

Calf sleeves may be faster. I know one person tested them and they were not but I've also talked to people who tested and found them to be faster. I think the verdict is still Maybe. I suspect it's also individualized. It was on my list to test but I ran out of my allotted time. When I test again they are on the list.

I don't know anyone who has ever tested arm warmers or sleeves. I think we'd have to infer from the suits and predict what may happen. But lots of skin suits have sleeves and we know skin is slow. I think the skin suits that are out there could be much faster given some of the stuff I learned.

I think if you get the texturing correct, especially on the bicep/upper arm area they have the potential to be faster.

Round cylinders are slow and guess what a lot of our arms act like when we are in the aero bars? We know texturing around cylinders can delay boundary layer separation & reduce the size of the wake region.

But I think for now with the arm sleeves that are out there it's a roll of the dice. This would be something interesting to test though. If you have specific ones you are thinking about PM me those brands. When I test I can put those on the list. I'll do some runs wearing them if I have time.

When it's 40-50F out and if it's going to be raining, maybe especially if it's going to be raining, I think staying warm may be more important than shivering.

Brian Stover
Accelerate3 Coaching
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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rich_m wrote:
good to know. I was going to get medium but at 5"10 and 150 -155 I expect the fit will not be tight enough. I'll give small a go.

I'm similar and got the small after trying on a small and medium.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [rich_m] [ In reply to ]
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Definitely a small.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [smarty] [ In reply to ]
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smarty wrote:
Just out of curiosity, did anyone test the TYR carbon trisuit? I'm assuming it would not be as good as the PI or any suit with sleeves (assuming no wrinkles!), but just wondering if TYR carbon producing less drag than a non-carbon trisuit.

Also, I just read the CEP and Zoot calf compression sleeves may be beneficial, any input on arm sleeves? I've raced with them before during cold weather, but had no idea they would impact drag positively or negatively.

Any input is appreciated and thank you for sharing all this information.

I'm guessing that the "carbon" bit is a little tongue in cheek?



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Actually, I was curious. Maybe it's a silly question, but this aero testing information is new to me and I'm trying to learn what's good / what's not. The TYR carbon is the same material used for the Team USA uniform and they fit extremely tight. I like the material and was considering purchasing a black/red one for local races until I started reading about the PI Octane and other aero clothing coming soon. However, I would hate to waste watt on poor clothing choices.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [smarty] [ In reply to ]
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smarty wrote:
Actually, I was curious. Maybe it's a silly question, but this aero testing information is new to me and I'm trying to learn what's good / what's not. The TYR carbon is the same material used for the Team USA uniform and they fit extremely tight. I like the material and was considering purchasing a black/red one for local races until I started reading about the PI Octane and other aero clothing coming soon. However, I would hate to waste watt on poor clothing choices.

I have one but the only "carbon" that is on there is the little black specs in the white mesh. I think it is supposed to keep you cooler or some non-sense. At any rate, I think the material is pretty similar to most high end trisuits. The material is woven not knit so it is a bit less stretchy, more compressive and sheds water a touch better. I'm sure it would work fine. If you can find a Pearl suit that fits well in the shoulders and sleeves get it. I do have a feeling that more and more companies are going to be producing short sleeve suits since the market is starting to demand it. The question is will they actually be faster or not.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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Brian, thanks for the response, I appreciate the feedback. I use the Moeben running arm sleeves, I'm just amazed covering skin can make such a difference. Also, wanted to give a shout out to you and everyone about the LG P09 findings. I just ordered that helmet for my wife and I yesterday, hoping that we fall within the 80% group that it tested faster for!
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [smarty] [ In reply to ]
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Tried on a friends size small Tri Octane suit yesterday. For reference I'm 5'7, 140lbs and it was really tight. The fabric is like nothing I've ever worn (Desoto, TYR, 2xu) it is insanely thin and actually feels like skin. The attention to detail in the seams is also amazing.

That said I did notice 2-3 small creases around the biceps area when in the aero position. For the guys that tested the suit, is this normal? The creases weren't huge but I'd certainly be interested in hearing your opinion on the suit fit around the biceps.

Cheers,
Ender
Last edited by: EnderWiggan: Feb 19, 14 7:31
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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EnderWiggan wrote:
Tried on a friends size small Tri Octane suit yesterday. For reference I'm 5'7, 140lbs and it was really tight. The fabric is like nothing I've ever worn (Desoto, TYR, 2xu) it is insanely thin and actually feels like skin. The attention to detail in the seams is also amazing.

That said I did notice 2-3 small creases around the biceps area when in the aero position. For the guys that tested the suit, is this normal? The creases weren't huge but I'd certainly be interested in hearing your opinion on the suit fit around the biceps.

Cheers,
Ender

Depends on the size of your arms really. I had a few creases which is normal, but mostly in the should bend area. Brian had significantly more. He's taller and weighs around 155-60 and wore a small. It tested pretty poorly on him but great on me.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Heath. The only creases noticeable are in the bicep area around the "armpitish area and they aren't huge". I think it's a result of the extra material in the armpit area which will allow for swimming and running. All that said, it feels pretty damn sweet.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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your definition of tight must be really loose? I'm 5'10" 165lbs and wear the Octane small. It's a bitch to get the suit up over my shoulders, but once its on its on. Yes does feel like a layer of skin.

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Would you recommend testing at the Eros sport facility or Faster wind tunnel in Scottsdale? Which one would be more beneficial for testing aero helmets, arm position and skin suits?

I can only afford to go to one testing facility but I'm not sue which one I will benefit more from. I've never tested at any facility before.

Any advice or thoughts for me?

Thanks

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [flyrunride] [ In reply to ]
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I've got the black PI Octane suit with elbow-length sleeves. I've ridden up to 6 hours in hot and humid conditions (Louisiana, September-October) and didn't find the "blackness" to be as hot as I expected, but it's not as cool as wearing white. The evaporation does keep it cool. I've only raced in it once -- Florida, November -- and it wasn't uncomfortable at all with temps in the low 70's and sunny and dry. Excellent sun protection.

As for sizing, I'm 5'8" and 160lbs and barely squeezed into a M. So tight I ordered a L, but returned the L because it was a bit loose in several areas. But it was a close call. Every time I put on the M, and I've worn it probably 8-10 times, it feels like I'm going to rip it to shreds, but it has held up.

Now I just need to re-learn how to pee -- ain't no way to pull that suit off the shoulders in a race situation, and ain't no way I'm going to pee on myself or my bike. For now, it's a stretch (!) to use the leg hole. I've considered cutting an access/egress hole at waist level, like Castelli does with their tri suit, but I'm afraid the suit will rip the whole way around.


<The Dew Abides>
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [dewman] [ In reply to ]
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dewman wrote:
I've got the black PI Octane suit with elbow-length sleeves. I've ridden up to 6 hours in hot and humid conditions (Louisiana, September-October) and didn't find the "blackness" to be as hot as I expected, but it's not as cool as wearing white. The evaporation does keep it cool. I've only raced in it once -- Florida, November -- and it wasn't uncomfortable at all with temps in the low 70's and sunny and dry. Excellent sun protection.

As for sizing, I'm 5'8" and 160lbs and barely squeezed into a M. So tight I ordered a L, but returned the L because it was a bit loose in several areas. But it was a close call. Every time I put on the M, and I've worn it probably 8-10 times, it feels like I'm going to rip it to shreds, but it has held up.

Now I just need to re-learn how to pee -- ain't no way to pull that suit off the shoulders in a race situation, and ain't no way I'm going to pee on myself or my bike. For now, it's a stretch (!) to use the leg hole. I've considered cutting an access/egress hole at waist level, like Castelli does with their tri suit, but I'm afraid the suit will rip the whole way around.

Interesting. I'm almost 6'4" and was almost 190 at Aerocamp. The medium fit me just fine. I guess "tight" is a relative term.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
AeroCamp February 25-26, 2020 A2 Wind Tunnel
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, and I've always gone the two-piece route, so I've got no experience with onesies. Compared to your 6'4" and 190, I'm practically a bowling ball at 5'8" -160. The size chart puts my chest on the borderline between a M and an L. Sounds like the length might have more range than the width.


<The Dew Abides>
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [dewman] [ In reply to ]
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dewman wrote:
Yeah, and I've always gone the two-piece route, so I've got no experience with onesies. Compared to your 6'4" and 190, I'm practically a bowling ball at 5'8" -160. The size chart puts my chest on the borderline between a M and an L. Sounds like the length might have more range than the width.

I'm 5'7" at 155 and it fits me fine. It's definitely form fitting, but not too bad.

I don't know how much faster it makes me, but it is a sick suit.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [matt_tris] [ In reply to ]
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Agree that it's a fast suit. Switching from stock wheels, regular cycling gear and standard helmet to the PI Octane, a pair of low-end aero wheels and the Giro Air Attack gains me about 2 mph on a long course. Swim was in a sleeveless wetsuit, so I don't know how it does in the water, except that hte short sleeves are a non-factor.


<The Dew Abides>
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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Dopers.Suck wrote:
Would you recommend testing at the Eros sport facility or Faster wind tunnel in Scottsdale? Which one would be more beneficial for testing aero helmets, arm position and skin suits?

I can only afford to go to one testing facility but I'm not sue which one I will benefit more from. I've never tested at any facility before.

Any advice or thoughts for me?

Thanks

I would be wary of data from Faster. Where do you live?
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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Fountain hills , AZ is where I'll be based in the winters. I'm from Canada.

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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My personal opinion would certainly be to make the trek to LA in that case. There's a lot of good prep info to be gleaned from this thread so, armed with that, you could be extremely effective with the time you spend in the 'drome.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Dopers.Suck] [ In reply to ]
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I'm sorry Dopers.Suck, I've been a bit slow to respond. Full disclosure: I work for Alphamantis Technologies, the company that developed the system that ERO Sports uses at the VELO Sports Center.

Each experience is going to be different, and is as much a function of the individual conducting the test. One of the benefits of a wind tunnel is that you'll get how CdA varies with yaw angle. One of the benefits of velodrome aero testing is that you will get a better feel for how rideable your position is.

I don't think anyone can conclusively tell you which will be better for you. There's certainly a place for both in this world, and I'd encourage you to definitely pick one and see how much free speed you can get.

AndyF
bike geek
Last edited by: AndyF: Feb 25, 14 20:52
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
Dopers.Suck wrote:
Would you recommend testing at the Eros sport facility or Faster wind tunnel in Scottsdale? Which one would be more beneficial for testing aero helmets, arm position and skin suits?

I can only afford to go to one testing facility but I'm not sue which one I will benefit more from. I've never tested at any facility before.

Any advice or thoughts for me?

Thanks


I would be wary of data from Faster. Where do you live?

James, just curious why you say that? I'm in AZ and this thread has basically told me I don't know crap about aero until actually testing my position so I was considering Faster as an alternative. I've met Stover before and would love to do testing at the Velo but not sure they'll have another test session before my A race.
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Re: Ask us anything about Aero Camp [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
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Ex-cyclist wrote:
dewman wrote:
I've got the black PI Octane suit with elbow-length sleeves. I've ridden up to 6 hours in hot and humid conditions (Louisiana, September-October) and didn't find the "blackness" to be as hot as I expected, but it's not as cool as wearing white. The evaporation does keep it cool. I've only raced in it once -- Florida, November -- and it wasn't uncomfortable at all with temps in the low 70's and sunny and dry. Excellent sun protection.

As for sizing, I'm 5'8" and 160lbs and barely squeezed into a M. So tight I ordered a L, but returned the L because it was a bit loose in several areas. But it was a close call. Every time I put on the M, and I've worn it probably 8-10 times, it feels like I'm going to rip it to shreds, but it has held up.

Now I just need to re-learn how to pee -- ain't no way to pull that suit off the shoulders in a race situation, and ain't no way I'm going to pee on myself or my bike. For now, it's a stretch (!) to use the leg hole. I've considered cutting an access/egress hole at waist level, like Castelli does with their tri suit, but I'm afraid the suit will rip the whole way around.


Interesting. I'm almost 6'4" and was almost 190 at Aerocamp. The medium fit me just fine. I guess "tight" is a relative term.

I'm 6'0" and 165-170 lbs and the medium PI Octane fits great. Had no issues getting the suit off quickly for potty breaks.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | TriRig | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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