So glad I will be flying out to Hawaii that day for my honeymoon .... Don't want to be anywhere near Howard County when king D-Bag shows up with the circus!! ;-P

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_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

And Lance just tweeted he looked forward to racing Half Full....

"Can't wait to race w/ fellow survivors in the @halffulltri benefiting the @UlmanCancerFnd on Oct. 7th. http://Ulmanfund.org #UCFYA"

My question is....how can he with the lifetime ban?

Bob

how long is a half full race these days ? or is it just the same as a half empty

I confirmed with the race director a few minutes ago. Ulman Cancer Fun was founded by Doug Ulman now Livestrong CEO. The race will not be USAT sanctioned, but have private insurer. I'm fairly confident after a quick call to USAT that the collegiate championship will be invalidated because the race isnt sanctioned.

Im racing still, because Ive already committed a year to fundraising, and paid for travel and lodging. Were that not the case I wouldnt be.

Hmmm. I thought since WTC and Rev3 are both sanctioned by USAT that Lance would not be racing either.

Personally, I'm glad he's competing though.

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Madison photographer Timothy Hughes | Instagram

"Don't want to be anywhere near Howard County when king D-Bag shows up with the circus!! " (Daremo)

Why do you call Lance a D-Bag? (Examples)

Hahahahahahah, pick6 lined up at the start shoulder to shoulder with Lance. Get us some pics!!!!

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===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

This race is being organized under Rev3's team but not run officially as a rev 3 race. The race director isnt charlie, it's a member of the UCF staff, so they chose to go with another provider for Lance to race. This was hinted at a few weeks ago, but I personally hoped it wasn't true.

seriously, it isn't obvious? how about enforcing omerta by chasing down Simeoni? That's enough douche baggery to last a lifetime.

Can you get me his autograph?

Shake his hand for me, too.

He's racing in the cancer survivor wave, which at least has one other fast person in it, the Wassner twin who is a survivor (who Im guessing didnt develop her cancer due to doping.)

It was hard not to call and cancel everything, as I spent the morning thinking about it. It was hinted at weeks ago, and I almost got enough info ahead of time to cancel before committing to hotel. Yes, I do think financially it will benefit UCF in the short term, and from the financials I see no way Lance gets anything out of this unless UCF is paying him an appearance fee (which Ive asked and havent heard back about). Their pro field wasnt full, but since he's not racing that wave im not sure it will make a difference. A couple of pros who have committed have been outspoken about Lance, so this whole thing will be interesting to say the least.

Blinders. They are a wonderful thing.

Even forgetting all the drug stuff, there is still a huge history of him being a douche all over the place.

(However, based on history as well, trying to convince you otherwise is a waste of bytes.)

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_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

Ok, way to stick with factual info. As outspoken as you are about this subject if you had any credibility at all you'd be skipping this race and standing up for your convictions.

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Except the fact that pick6 said he spent a year fundraising for the race. You want to be the one that tells all the people that supported his fundraising that he isn't going to race because of LA showing up?

So conundrum is completely understood.

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_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

I'm a little bit mixed feeling here with this one. Obviously Lance will bring some attention, but I'm also not sure an usat collegiate conference wants to "celebrate" that they get to race toe to toe with Lance who is an officially sanctioned doper.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Throwing away $1000 between travel and hotel as well as the money donated by myself and friends. My wife suggested talking to the people who donated on my behalf to see what they think. Most of them believe as I do.

As for sticking to the factual information, Rick Crawford has all but admitted doping with lance back in his first pass at triathlon, then you have Carmichael who doped juniors without their knowledge as his next coach. Is it supposition? yes, but even Ferrari was afraid to dope with him when he came back from cancer because he was afraid he'd caused it.

Theres no way USAT will sanction this race as the championship now.

This race is being organized under Rev3's team but not run officially as a rev 3 race.

I have no idea what that means. If i was racing and I saw a Rev3 banner it would make it a Rev3 race.

As the major competitor in the US to WTC It will be interesting to see if this is a one off or if they try to hitch themselves to LA longer term and what that will do for the brand.

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Styrrell

This will be very interesting for sure. Some excitement again since USADA has had nothing to offer lately.

In regards to the Lance haters, for whatever you 'hate' him for, who are outspoken on this forum, I wonder if you were to line up with him, and were to be standing next to him, if you would say any of the things you have said on this forum to his face....literally...to his face. Not shouting from a crowd at the swim start, but to his face...one on one. Just wondering. Especially if he were to look at you and say, "Have a great race."

So you really don't have any examples.

I'm not debating whether Lance doped at all. It is a dumbass statement to assume that his cancer was caused by it as you infered in the above statement though.

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Hee Hee. I love that he's still racing and it's sooo pissing all the Lance-haters off. This is so fun to watch.

Thank you for supporting Lance.

I coach in the MACTC conference (NC State), and I've just been informed that USAT/no USAT sanctioning wont affect the conference championship standings. It was ok'd by the right people so that the collegiate racing wont be affected in terms of qualifying.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

It was one race. Get over it!

The challenge isnt saying it to his face, the challenge is saying it to the face of a confrontational guy like Lance without ruining anyone elses day. If I wind up racing, and I wind up speaking with him, would be to say "thanks for helping the charity and for the sake of yourself and the sport, I hope you're doing this race clean".

----

I predict that hissy fits and tantrums will reach epidemic proportions very soon.

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No really, even his doping expert doctor was afraid his cancer was caused by years of doping. his blood was literally a cocktail of drugs being taken for off label purposes. To say its not a distinct possibility is to be naive. Further, he's never shared any major family history of the cancer he had.

Does that mean there is no pro field anymore at Rev3 MD?

Disgusting.

that part of the race isn't USAT sanctioned? Maybe like an elite amatuer wave?

Either you dont understand physiology, or you dont know what literally means.

---

who's smarter than you're? i'm!

It's comical how much the fact that LA is crashing your race is upsetting you and leaving you to grasp at any last damaging insinuation you can throw out there.

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That would be bold...but reasonable. But I wonder if you would actually be able to. I am not saying that I don't think you would, but just hypothesizing all the thoughts that would be going through your head and standing right there...next to Lance Armstrong...regardless of what you think of him. Total hypothetical of course.

Good for the racers, I don't know how college racing is organized. Are regionals qualifiers for nationals and are nationals a USAT race?

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Styrrell

That.

That seems like its up to the individual racers if they want to participate. I'd be shocked if USAT suspended the Pros for racing LA in an unsanctioned race.

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Styrrell

I'm not sure there is such a rule in place with USAT (there is with USA Cycling I believe).

The conferences/regions are broken down by usat. That is what allows teams to qualify for nationals which is the "usat collegiate nationals". But how each conference allocates its national spots does get some leeway by usat.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Doesn't look like they are distancing to hard.


Team Rev3 Triathlon shared a link.
17 minutes ago
Looks like we'll have some good company racing with us at the Half Full Triathlon.

Twitter / lancearmstrong: Can't wait to race w/ fellow ...
twitter.com

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Thanks. USAT can't be pleased that a qualifier for a USAT championship race is at a non USAT sanctioned race.

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Styrrell

The fun will really begin with the UCI and Tour organizers officially strip him of the titles.

Strange, your huge history could make a lot of people say the same about you. Maybe we should boycott all the races you do for being a d-bag?

Thats going to be interesting to see how it plays out. When or if usada sends the UCI the files I expect the UCI will recommend that he be stripped of his titles.

I doubt that the ASO does so. They arein a pretty uncomfortable position. Riis admitted doping and they stripped him for a year or so, then quietly put him back on the official list as a winner. Every year has a winner, and the only removed winner is FL, who was replaced by 2nd.

So they can leave LA, they can vacate and elevate another doper, or they can vacate and essentially say out race didn't count for 7 years. None of those options would be particularly palatable to the ASO, so my guess is he stays as winner.

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Styrrell

I think it'll stay as
*Lance Armstrong.

What will Conrad Stoltz say about this?

Caveman my ass...

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Well that's good, Id hate to see the collegians affected by this. I know some folks looking at their rankings wont be happy that this race wont count.

This is an interesting confluence of controversy. You get Lance lovers and haters as well as those who hate WTC and love Rev3. I wonder how it will color people's opinion about Rev3 when they allow Lance to race but WTC seems to be stocking to the high road in regards to Lance's ban.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
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Not sure how I feel about this. Last couple years this was a relatively small local race (no pro field for example) for a good cause, parking and getting the family in and out of the race was nice and easy. I guess this year the logistics are going to be a bit crazier. Still, gotta figure its good exposure for the cause. If its chilly, which it was last year, I'm very curious to see how the pros and Lance handle their gear setup; I had a friend last year who said that during the bike and run he was the coldest he'd ever been while racing due to gear mismanagement. I didn't end up that bad, but was definitely very cold on the first half of the bike.

I can't believe a major player like Rev3 would put their necks out there like this. WTC absolutely made the right call by not changing their rules when he was first prohibited to WTC races due to their own rules of prohibiting those under investigation for doping from competing. And, after being sanctioned, for a major race organization company to toss the sports NGB to the side in order to enable a doper to race makes absolutely no sense to me.

I hope that the reasoned opinion by USADA comes out between now and Half Full with all the juicy tidbits that Lance didn't want to contest under oath.

I wonder what kind of testing they'll be doing they'll be doing at Half Full.

Frankly, I couldn't give a rat's ass what LA does. Race away if he can find races that will take him. But, it is absolutely perplexing to me that Rev3 would put their necks out there like this. Really dumb, imo.

Scoop: money buys everything.

I wish RDs were like Uli.

Before all this I would've thought WTC would stick with LA. They've always had a rocky relationship with USAT and probably need USAT less than any other race promotor in the US.

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Styrrell

The big joke is that everyone seems to pretend that LA racing is the only way or best way to raise money for cancer.
What a freaking joke!

There is still a pro field which does include Richie Cunningham who has been outspoken in support of USADA. Lance isnt racing in it, Im assuming because he'd have to have a valid USAT elite card, which he doesnt have.

If he is just "racing" to raise money, I have mixed feelings.

If he is racing in the pro field for money, or even against AGers for ranking, then that is just wrong.

Dopers suck. Nuff said

fine literally is too strong a word. He regularly had all sorts of different drugs in his body not used as intended, without a prescription, with the intention to cheat at sports. fair enough?

If there are a bunch of people around it would be challenging, not because of Lance but because of how it would affect others on their race day. But if somehow I was face to face with him and I only had to worry about his reaction on race day, yes I believe I could say that.

Because all those people who use those drugs as treatment are coming down with cancer. Stop digging your hole deeper on this one. We'll all know you hate him but at least stick with your rational arguments.

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Has anyone asked if the organizer is willing to refund the full entry fees of anyone withdrawaing because they're allowing a convicted doper to compete?

Was this origninally a sanctioned race, with the organizer opportunistically unsanctioning it in order to get Armstrong's participation? If that is the case, then would that be an additional ground to support a refund?

Which leads to the real question, is there anyone who is withdrawing because of this?

If pick6 isn't sticking to his guns and pulling out as outspoken as a critic as he is I doubt there are going to be many.

And judging from the twitter activity I see on my feed since this came down there are going to be additional people signing up now. Small sample of course but I'd bet it holds true over a larger one.

---

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Pick6 seems to hate Lance the most of anyone and he isn't withdrawing.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

--

Kind of like the last time you have sex before you break up....

---

Im undecided. I emailed the people who donated for me. This isnt a race I paid for, though Im willing to throw my travel money away if I cant get it back. But the people who donated, I want their opinions. One of them responded I should do it, and that letting a doper push away clean athletes isnt the way to go, but im waiting for the majority to respond.

I signed up a couple days ago. I haven't been able to race much this year because of injuries and did IMMT, so a non-USAT event. Rev3's change here means I wont have a ranking for the year. A bit annoying

Race director sent out this email. Nothing about a refund other than 1 day USAT fees:

Greetings!


We are very excited to host you at the 2012 Rev3 Half Full Triathlon. Since day 1, the vision for Half Full Triathlon has always been to provide a platform to raise awareness and funds to support the programs and services of the Ulman Cancer Fund for Young Adults. The success of the event over the years can be directly attributed to the effort of many people who support this mission. This year we are very excited to announce that Lance Armstrong will be participating in the half distance of the 2012 Rev3 Half Full Triathlon along side many other cancer survivors.

Half Full Triathlon has always been about the fight against cancer and we're excited to welcome another cancer survivor to the field. Lance is a young adult cancer survivor and arguable one of the most vocal and visible survivors on the planet. Having him support our organization and the event will help us raise more awareness and funds around the young adult cancer issue.

After discussions with USAT, we have made a decision that it is the best interest of Half Full Triathlon that we secure insurance from another provider in order to maintain our mission focus on Young Adult cancer initiatives. We have secured event insurance that will protect the participants, staff and volunteers at Half Full.All 1 Day USAT licensing fee's will be refunded in the coming week.

We look forward to hosting you during Half Full weekend and thank you for your support!

Best in the FIGHT!

Brian Satola

I can't see the event refusing donations even if you decide not to show up.

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If you care, I am of the opinion that you should still race. That they decided to bring Lance in at the last minute doesn't change the fact that you prepared for this race.

Do the race and then never race with that RD again. Throwing away money over this is stupid.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

this.

I was very much hoping to do a Rev3 race very soon, so as to support a good product with a good price, but now I'll have to rethink that. Not at all happy w/ Rev3, and they just threw away the only thing they had going for them IMHO, the fact that they weren't WTC.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

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Screw 'em all and come to Challenge Penticton!!!!

(sorry,couldn't resist)

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I agree that throwing away money over this is stupid. That is, unless you've got a lot of money to throw away.

From what I understand, however, it looks like the race was originally organized and advertised as a USAT sanctioned race, where convicted dopers would not be allowed. I think the organizer has an obligation to fully refund entry fees of anyone that now asks for one on account of this move.

I hold Rev3 blameless from what I've learned so far. The thing to remember is Rev3 partnered with UCF before Lance signed on. Rev3 is not actually directing the race, just doing the work. The race director who made these decisions is a UCF staffer, so it wasn't Charlie and Co's call. Lance isnt taking an appearance fee and is evidently donating financially to the cause, on top of likely pulling in some additional racers. I am torn on all this, but Rev3 isn't where my issues lie.

The issue is many people in the race did so as a fundraiser, so it's not just our money that went towards entry (though I put a good bit in myself). I dont have the money to throw away per se, but I still got the training out of it if I decide not to race. I think I can get hotel money back but flight is sunk cost now.

I just moved to the pacific north west... very happy about Challenge Penticton!

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Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I understand that but it is still a Rev3 branded event and they have no choice but to own that.

---

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Of course they won't nor would I want them to. The charity is a good decision, and those loosely affiliated with Livestrong, ive checked thoroughly to confirm Lance didnt benefit financially from their donations (in fact he was single biggest donor 2 years ago).

For those who signed up because of "the cause" young cancer survivors, to pull out means you don't care about them very much. And your selfish side has gotten in the way just because Lance wants to race, he isn't competing for a win, is donating to "the cause" and will generally bring an upside to the event whether you like it or not. Unless you think the guy is just nothing more than a junkie and couldn't possibly be racing clean well can't help you there. Just go line up, race to the best of your abilities enjoy the day and you'll have something to talk about when it is over.

Regardless of whether or not you believe Armstrong cheated, doped, whatever....the man has achieved great things. I guarantee, even those that dismiss Armstrong as a cheat...still have in some way been inspired by his races, epic moments, and other achievements. Love him or hate him, cheat or not...Armstrong was good for the sports we all love. This forum is made up of many who picked up a road bike for the first time because they caught a glimpse of Lance on Sportscenter, watched for countless hours on versus or OLN, or their Sunday newspaper and thaught to themselves...wow this is either a great sport..looks like fun...or that simply riding on a long country road or up and over a mountain pass takes you to a place that few others get to experience.

Its sad that we seem to be moving into a period of time when fact no longer exists...a single person's opinion can now eradicate a lifetime of achievement. We see it in politics, we saw it at Penn State, and we see a variety of it here in this case. Direct evidence, fact, substantial findings, etc...the things that make up reality....are now secondary to personal belief, superstition, vendetta or the like.....

Yes, we swim, bike, run, exercise...because we like it, it makes us feel good.....but deep down there is a competitive fire that burns in all of us....its why you train harder when you have an event on the calendar......its why you toe the line......Many of us took that first step because of Athletes and heros like Lance Armstrong.

I can't wait to hopefully meet him, shake his hand, and give it a good race.

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Dr. MJP
3rd Dental Bt
Okinawa, Japan

"Embrace the Suck"

If I were you I wouldn't drop the race but since I haven't yet raced a Rev3 race, I'm seriously considering not ever racing one.

I think my personal vote will be with my wallet and my ability to influence (however small) on social media. I will only do races like Ironman, Gran Fondo NY, USAT, etc.

That being said WTC has a long way to go, I am really hoping for stricter AG testing for Kona slot winners.

---

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

I donated all year, actually the past few years. I have friends who chose this cancer charity to support me in specifically because it had similar goals to livestrong but it didnt benefit Lance. I care about people who have, and had cancer (including the family member I raise money in honor of). But I also beliee in clean sport, and that sports should have rules for a reason, and that doping is both against the rules of our sport, a bad thing to teach our kids has no consequences, and is dangerous to health.

Its sad that we seem to be moving into a period of time when fact no longer exists...a single person's opinion can now eradicate a lifetime of achievement. We see it in politics, we saw it at Penn State, and we see a variety of it here in this case. Direct evidence, fact, substantial findings, etc...the things that make up reality....are now secondary to personal belief, superstition, vendetta or the like.....

Huh?

It doesn't do much good to keep it to your self or social media. You should probably contact Rev3 and let them know too -- just a brief e-mail saying what you just said.

EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.
And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.

I was going to comment, but all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

Are you saying Lance may have been pregnant??

Shane

I did my first triathlon well before I'd ever heard of Lance Armstrong, so he didn't inspire me to pick up my bike. I did enjoy watching his TdF victories on OLN, but I did so honestly believing at the time that he was clean. I trusted the drug-tests were hard to beat and that a guy who had recovered from cancer wouldn't be stupid enough to dope. My bad.

So insofar as he was ever my hero (way too strong a word), he has certainly fallen now. As a fund-raiser for cancer causes, maybe he can still be a hero, but not as an elite athlete (and I don't single him out here, any dope cheats are included).

As for your reference to Penn State, that's just silly. Joe P guy covered up a heinous crime against a child. Are you saying this is not true but rather a single person's opinion? If Joe P still inspires you, what can I say...

And you really believe that LA is innocent and it's just one person's opinion that has led to a lifetime ban? Sheesh.

Not gonna happen. Races advertise stuff all the time then change at the last minute. For all intents and puposes the event is still the event you signed up for.

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Styrrell

Fair enough, but until the rest of the pro peleton from that period starts coming down with cancer making the statement that PED's were the cause of LA's cancer is an ignorant statement that makes anyone who says it just look like someone grasping at any reason to trash LA. Which plenty of people will still do.

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That it is, what I have an issue with is the collegiate conference *seemingly* celebrating racing with Lance. If this was 6 months ago, fair enough, but he's an convicted doper according to the endurance sports that he wants to race in. And I have no issue with him trying to race, if he gets races to break sanction to race, then fair enough. I just am a little confused/baffled what we as a usat certified conference are celebrating this for.

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------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

In response to Joe P...yes he made a huge mistake, but to be dismantled after 60 years of otherwise great service to his sport and university Sandusky perpretrated the crimes...Not Joe Pa...I'm not sure taking his statues down and removong victories from his record was the thing to do....There are other institutions that cover up far worse attrocities and millions literally worship them..it makes me think anyway....Lance has yet to be proven in a court of law that he indeed doped....yes there is evidence, testimonial, etc..but no direct positive test....and unless I'm behind on my information UCI has not taken away his wins and USADA does not posses that authority.....and yes, we exist in a time of opinion and conjecture rather than fact....I mean if Paul Ryan can run a 3 hour marathon in 4 hours and change...anything is possible!

Regardless, achievement in one thing should eradicated because of a mistake in another....

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Dr. MJP
3rd Dental Bt
Okinawa, Japan

"Embrace the Suck"

So let me get this straight - you're going to ruin a bunch of college kids opportunity to race a collegiate championship because of your opinion on Lance? And you're calling HIM the d-bag...

This.

Dude, just stop. There is nothing worse than child abuse.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Here's the difference; lance's unique physiology likely made him uniquely susceptible to cancer by EPO. The same ability of his body to work well with medicines that made him an ideal doper is the same ability that may very well have lead to his cancers. There are a great many reasons to bash LA, Im merely stating that as a cancer survivor, it's entirely possible that he's no different than a chain smoker who gets lung cancers after it was known that smoking causes cancer; he took risks with his own health that may have lead to his cancer.

There is no sure way we can answer for sure whether one single person got (testicular) cancer because of doping. Simply because cancer happens.
But we can sure look at the general population vs. the pro peloton. I am not sure anyone has looked at that.

That said, even though we can't say for sure he got cancer because of doping, we can be pretty certain that his cancer remained undiagnosed
way too long because of doping (e.g. use of beta-HCG...which should have raised a big red flag).

"There are other institutions that cover up far worse attrocities and millions literally worship them"

Care to give some specific examples? Are you referring to other collegiate sports programs, or perhaps to a religious institution, in which case I would agree.

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"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude

I can see an individual being happyto race LA, but the confeences shouldn't be celebrating it. i'm not sure how an org can even celebrate something. The conference is between a rock and a hard place. Its pretty late to change venues.

---

Styrrell

Hole is getting deeper....

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I understand folks' opinion on Lance's history with USADA, WADA, etc. We're certainly entitled to have (and share ) opinions about if he doped, the investigation, his dropping his arbitration, etc.

Let's not forget that he is a cancer survivor - and clearly holds linkage to cancer survivors no matter whether he doped or didn't dope. To lots of folks - cancer survivors, non-cancer survivors, cyclists, triathletes, etc, he is an inspiration. He may not have inspired you, but the fact is that for lots of folks he is/was inspiring. He also has a history of supporting the Ulman Cancer Fund - so his continued support shouldn't be a huge surprise. At the end of the day, his involvement in the event will raise interest - and likely donations (which is really the key success measure for the race IMO).

I suspect (though I don't know for sure) that Lance will more participate than compete. I'd be surprised if he tries to "win", and even more surprised if he took home prize money or anything. Knowing that the intent of this event is to raise money - and Lance will most likely help do that - I'm not sure that I follow how/why Rev3 or Ulman has done anything wrong or why an athlete wouldn't want to race just because he's going to be there.

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Joel | My Blog | Team Rev3 Tri | Twitter @TriMadness

I'm certainly not a Lance lover...but that is simply not correct. There is no such thing as cancer by EPO. We know EPO
favors metastasizing in some cancers like choriocarcinoma, but we still can't claim what you just said. I'm all for the ban,
and frankly, after reading TH's book, I'm just disgusted. But there is no need to add non factual statements, or infer things
that just can't be inferred.

What in the hell are you talking about? I said i would be surprised if USAT said theyd let the collegiate championship stand. Not because of my opinion on anyone, but because the race was no longer USAT sanctioned. It appears that USAT made a common sense decision to let the collegiate race continue. Its not my opinion I was simply going by the rules. Maybe if you took a few minutes to educate yourself before posting this wouldnt be an issue.

Do we really need to explain. Prie0065 is correct.

Now that Rev3 is advertising Lance's participation, I have some concerns. I like charlie, I've met him some of his crew, and I know about a dozen of their amateur team members, good folks all. But this isn't a good decision IMO. Maybe they were contracted to advertise for the race as part of their deal, but I find it disappointing.

and I quote : "I'm fairly confident after a quick call to USAT that the collegiate championship will be invalidated because the race isnt sanctioned."

Perhaps I didnt quite understand what you meant when you typed what you said above, but I took this to mean that you were calling USAT to ask them to invalidate the race... no? If not, who was making a quick call to USAT?

Richie Cunningham is racing. I'd be very surprised if Lance doesn't try to get a better time than him. Lance remembers stuff people say about him and Richie pissed him off earlier this year.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

If you don't have issues with Rev3 you are being hypocritical. They are fully promoting and supporting it.

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Lance Armstrong to Participate in the REV3 Half Full Triathlon http://rev3tri.com/news/lance-armstrong-to-participate-in-the-rev3-half-full-triathlon/ Third Annual Event Benefits th

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The pro race is the olympic. Lance wont be racing against Cunningham or any other pros for that matter

Hoist with your own petard.

I've got nothing, so I'll join the "shaking their head" crowd now.

I had made a quick call to USAT to understand if the race was indeed unsanctioned; which they said it was unsanctioned, and she couldnt reach club coordinator but the lady I talked to assumed collegiates wouldnt be sanctioned. I was asking questions, not calling to try to influence outcomes.

I wonder how much influence/muscle Lance's people have and how aggressive are they being to keep Lance racing and relevant?

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I wouldn't qualify Lance's participation in this event either as racing or relevant.

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Lance wouldnt have been allowed to race if the collegiate race would have been compromised (it was determined his racing wouldnt matter as technically there is no "usat" certified race requirement). I'm looking through our conference by-laws, and I honestly dont even see that the race that our conference designates as "collegiate" races even has to be usat certified. I think we mostly just assumed all were already, but this seems to be the only one that isnt. But, good for our conference, it looks to be an exciting conference championship, with or without Lance. I hope that potentially the MACTC racers who do extremely well, can be some good pub from this event.

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There's no USAT-set qualification criteria for collegiate nationals. instead there is a max number of male/female that each school can take, so each school/or each conference will have their own criteria for which members of their club get to go and race. most schools would use the conference championship as the qualifier.

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+1

While running on the W&OD trail in Virginia, I saw two bikers on the trail wearing Livestrong shirts. Made me smile.

Can't wait to hear how Lance does at this race. Wish he would visit Salisbury, Maryland for the Seagull Century ride on October 6.

I suppose I am just curious as to how the math works for a RD who makes the choice to allow Lance to race and the attendant hype vs. any potential negative consumer reaction by allowing him to participate. It would seem the former is more compelling to them.

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It probably is a good BUSINESS decision. Rev 3 is a for profit business, and the main way they make profits is by selling entries to their races. Some people hate Lance, some people love him. Some people will drop out of the race because Lance is racing, but my guess is that far more people will sign up because he is. Is it the right thing to do? That depends on someone's personal opinion. Is it a smart business decision? I would say absolutely.

To be honest, I'm not sure if I agree with it or not, but they'll probably sell more entries now.

It seems that (in the US anyway) Lance has far more supporters than people truly disgusted by what has gone on for years in the pro peloton.
So, it's really no biggie for the RD. Lance in means more money. I guess WTC said no because they would simply not be able to get away from
USADA...although...maybe it's just a matter of time.

Having just done Cedar Point, the strong impression I get from Rev3 is that they are a company based around participation. If you are a pro, there is lots of money up for grabs and great competition. If you aren't a pro, you are there to participate and race against fellow triathletes.

LA is neither out there to win a championship, nor ruin your day if he beats you (and likely will) setting you back one place in the standings. Yes he will have a strong time, but that is not your concern as an individual athlete... focus on your race and whatever reason brought you to Maryland that weekend. He is there to participate, support a great cause, and continue to show his face against scrutiny and allegations. It shows that regardless of your past (leaving judgment open here), racing isn't above certain causes.

For that reason, I am all for his participation, and 100% behind Rev3 in supporting this.

Look to marathons. They exploded in the past decade or so not because more hard core racers are signing up, butbecause more fitness tourists are signing up. And a lot of them are tied to charities.

If n organization is going to overtake WTC in NA as the dominate organizer, it wont be by catering to the people contending for AG wins.

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Styrrell

Non full race, all proceeds going to charity, not putting Lance in the pro division or against AGers who would be upset (cant imagine many of the survivor division being upset). It's a strict win for the UCF, even if pros like Cunningham are speaking out. There will be a minority that wont like that their shot at improving USAT rankings disappear, or those like me who have an issue with Lance racing because of his ban. In other races and situations I could see this being more of a problem.

Maybe triathlon race directors need to learn from what race directors for more established sports are doing regarding this issue. This is what the NYRR's CEO said recently in an interview:

"“People have to understand this isn’t coming from the marathons, whether from Chicago, or us, or anyone else. It’s coming from the legal authority, probably [the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency], and we absolutely go along with the legal authorities that govern our race and sport. If Lance were to call me and ask for an entry, I would have to check with USADA, USATF, and IAAF, but it seems very likely the answer would be no, and we would follow that."

http://news.runnersworld.com/...-lance-more-with-rw/

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Rev3 is going along with the rules in place. LA is banned from racing in events sanctioned by WADA signatories. No one, including the USADA has the authority to bann him from non WADA signatory sanctioned races.

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Styrrell

Agree it's probably good business. The majority of people at these races are newbies who don't care about doping. Article from an hour ago talking about him doing 2 long distance tri's in 2 weeks:
http://triathlon.competitor.com/...-race-calendar_62250

After Superfrog they are splitting proceeds for a Lance Q and A between the Navy Seal foundation and Livestrong

REV3 apparently moved away from their usual USAT affiliation, specifically to allow LA to participate in this event.

I personally don't care about these sorta things, but if I were an athlete doing this race for USAT rankings points, etc - I'd be pretty bent right now.

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Im not even close to the only one bringing up this question now that more info is available. Further, comparing his usage of multiple drugs when there was nothing wrong with him by quacks versus medical doctors prescribing specific dosages to treat illness is a huge difference.

I know. Both the Chicago Marathon and Rev 3 races are in full compliance ith all laws and rules. That means LA can't race chicago but can race Rev 3 (and the mtb marathon race he's slated for).

Its easy to see why that the people who wanted LA strung up are pretty pissed that so far the sum total of his ban is a little bit of rescheduling of the jet. Hopefully he'll donate the proceeds of the fuel saved by not doing Kona to the cancer fund.

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Comparing yourself to other idiots does not make you look smarter.

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We don't need no stinkin USAT rankings. ;)

Sorry, too many messages too fast, how about the comnbination of drugs he was taking potentially led to his cancer. Even Ferrari worried about this.

Richie spoke out again today.

That happened after my prior posts.

20+ years ago Calvin Murphy (the basketball player) made fun of my cancer surviving brother because of his handicap. A couple of years ago I called his radio program and said, "15 years ago you made fun of my brother who has a handicap. I was only a teenager at the time, so I didn't say anything to you. But I am now, you asshole." I was hung up on and I don't think it made it to air, but I know he heard me.

But Calvin did this to my family and he had it coming. Unless Lance did something to you personally, I think it would be out of line to confront him. Though it might be worth it for the story!

It's highly hypothetical. There is a link between the use of steroids and cancer, but you can't conclude that he got it
from this. Testicular cancer is far from uncommon in a healthy male under 30.
The conjecture that EPO facilitated the metastasizing is also just that: a conjecture.

Are these possible? Yes. Can we say to some degree we are sure? nope. Even 20% sure...just can't conclude. The only
thing we can say is that the use of beta-HCG is the very likely cause for the very late detection of a cancer in a male
that has a strong medical team around him, as is the case within a pro cycling team. That you can say with very
reasonable certainty.

I guess how the fact that USAT collegiate championship qualifiers are based on the conference race omnium standings and dont say anything about USAT for the races themselves. Im a bit surprised by that but i guess local unsanctioned races for smaller colleges could help with inclusion, but I dont know. I'm guessing we'll see a rule change following this, or at least a cleanup of the rules.

So, what did he say?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Fair enough, but people dismiss it out of hand or are afraid to raise the question. Clearly his doping impacted the detection, and therefore the state of his cancer and the risk to his health he then battled back from.

Pick6, interesting your obsession with Lance bashing. Did a ST search and your last 10 pages of posts are all related to Lance, Im sure it went on but I stopped clicking next. Might want to contribute something else to the ST forum, would add to your credibility here. Maybe talk about wheels or swimming?

EDIT: I admit to Lance posting on here too, but dude, literally every single post from you is Lance, doping or Hamiltons book.

Eating bacon 'potentially' leads to cancer...

The end of your statement, yes, most definitely. My comments were for the sake of accuracy. The shit is piled high enough. No need to pile up more.
But I sure am shaking my head in disbelief when I read some people's comments here. I wish RDs had the balls Uli has...

From a logistics point isn't the Pro race at the Olympic Distance, as is the collegiate race. Lance will be racing the Half which means he isn't after the prize purse. Theoretically, the Pro/Collegiate race could be sanctioned differently than the half(Say the Oly/Half were held on different days) thus why the decision was made.

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A couple of things here. Our conference (MACTC) is/was super excited to have partnered with Rev3 to allow us to race this as the MACTC "collegiate champs". They helped with costs of the event for the kids as well as allowing all the college kids the pro style transition area. So, it's cool that a race like that has allowed us to partner up with them. In terms of regulating having to race in usat sanctioned races, I doubt any new rule/regulation is sanctioned. Frankly there doenst need to be, if the deciding factor for collegiate nationals is allowed to be decided by each individual conference/region themselves.

Now, this is my own thoughts, but I dont think the conference should be excited that we get to race with Lance (only because he's serving an active doping ban). Now technically, this is all on the up and up because the race changed it's insurance format so that they could invite Lance "legally", thus no more USAT certified race. So, fair enough, and I hope that many can gain alot of inspiration from him for his cancer awareness causes. I just dont think I can be excited by it, though I will say many of my kids who are racing, really have no clue/understanding of what Lance/cycling was really about. Which I cant fault them, hell most of them werent even out of middle school when all his doping stuff went down, so likely non of them even really knew what really was going on.

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@brooksdoughtie
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Lance won't hurt anyone's rankings. Rankings are based on "pacesetters" (i.e people within the field that did enough races in the previous year to qualify for annual rankings). I don't think Lance had enough races in 2011 to qualify (0, if I recall his race resume correctly). Even if he did have enough races, the rankings system throws out the top and bottom chunks of pacesetters (top and bottom 20%, I think?) so your score at a particular event is determined by how well you do against the middle 60% of pacesetters, which would certainly not include Lance, even if he were a pacesetter.

As for what I would say to Lance if I were racing him...I'm honestly not sure. Part of me wants to tell him that I "looked up to [him] every day of the summer when I watched the TDF after my morning swim practice...", and the other part of me wants to finish that sentence with "...but you let me down by cheating and bullying others into colluding with you." I'm very torn on this one. Regardless of my feelings toward him, I think it would be cool to toe the line with him, for the same reason that I would think it would be cool to shake hands with Obama---just to say I did it. I shook Bill Clinton's hand many years ago and although I disagreed with many of the things he did I still look back on that as something cool.

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Just to clear up a few things that are getting thrown around on the thread:
-REV3 makes NO money on the HalfFull Triathlon. UCF is the charity that REV3 supports. This year much of the REV3 staff took 21 days off and ran across the country to raise money for UCF. For the last 2 years REV3 has donated timing and supplies for HalfFull because Charlie is a nice guy and (correctly) believes that Ulman is an amazing organziation that does great things.
-Lance is not racing as a pro. He is participating as a cancer survivor. He won't be taking prize money away from pros and my guess is he doesn't care about age group awards.
Those that choose to race this race won't be sorry. It is an incredible event that is about so much more than your swim, bike and run time. The race is 70 miles long (not 70.3) to represent the estimated 70,000 young adults that are diagnosed with cancer every year. The name of the race "Half Full" has nothing to do with a half ironman or full distance. Half Full is being able to stare in the face of adversity with HOPE, OPTIMISM and the WILL to get through the difficult times and live your life. The Ulman Cancer Fund has been teaching and coaching others on how to face a diagnosis of cancer with this attitude.
So, say what you want about Lance Armstrong, doping and USAT sanctioning but this race is not about the profit and decisions that Ulman and REV3 have made have nothing to do with making profit and everything to do with supporting Ulman and raising awareness in the fight against cancer.

Well said

Paraphrasing. Said he was disappointed, said if Lance just showed up and spoke, awesome. But coming to race isnt good for the athletes involved, the integrity of the race or the sport.

Sounds like Lance doesn't have to race in order for all those goals to be achieved. So why is he racing?

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Other than my opinions about the risks he took with his health and the potential it had to affect his cancer diagnosis, all my other posts are factual. I joined the forum to discuss this issue after being a long time lurker. Im not a fan of cheating or doping.

Because announcing that LA is simple appearing or promoting this event does not increase participation like the fact that he is racing it will.

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I really don't get why everyone is consumed by this debate. Weather he did or not, no one but Lance knows the truth and he has to live with it. Their is no smoking gun no urine sample to point at just some already convicted dopers saying Lance did it too. Too hate him just seems like a waste of energy you could be using swimming ,biking or running.

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The pro race is at the "Olympic Rev" distance of .9/32mi/6.5mi. Lance will be racing the "Half Full" distance which is .9/56/13.1. The races are on the same day as far as I know.

The collegiate race doesn't need to be USAT sanctioned per the MACTC rules (just read up on them this morning as I discussed this with BDoughtie), although I wonder if USAT has any rules about pros racing non USAT-sanctioned events in the same way that USAC does?

Not sure if anyone has posted the withdrawal policy, but Pick6...here you are:

If you wish to withdraw from the REVOLUTION3 Triathlon Event, you may receive a credit for the following years REVOLUTION3 Triathlon Event. The event transfer is valid for the next year�s event ONLY. You must notify us in writing via e-mail to info@rev3tri.com or you may call (703) 745-3142 if you intend to withdrawl and meet one of the following scenarios.
If for any reason, you notify ATP Productions (ATP) more than 60 days prior to the start of an event weekend of your withdraw you will receive a 100% credit towards the following years event. This credit only covers the race entry fee. Processing fees and online registration fees will not be included with your credit
If you have a MEDICAL Reason, you will need to provide a signed doctors letter advising us that you are not able to compete. This letter must be received by ATP Productions 30 days prior to the event weekend in order for you to receive your race event credit. This credit only covers the race entry fee. Processing fees and online registration fees will not be included in your credit.

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Because it is fun?

ETA: Or, because he can?

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Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

I understand how rankings work; my point is because USAT isnt sanctioning the race, no one will be eligible for any rankings points.

As for saying anything to him, I'll decide what to do if/when I see him. I wont seek him out, Im not that sort, but if I wind up by him...

I've heard good things about this race. Wish I could be there, but my family and I are doing the Seagull Century in Salisbury, MD.

Hope you have a successful race. All the best!

Up until last weekend, I was happy to see the USADA ban Armstrong for life but at the same time disappointed that he wouldn't be competing in triathlon anymore. However, since reading The Secret Race, I'm quite happy that he isn't able to compete in any sanctioned sporting event ever again. I could care less about the doping; he just seems like a bad guy.

This will be my first race longer than an Olympic distance. Chosen mainly because it is close to home (I can ride the course right from my house).

Now it should be even more entertaining.

Since you just joined, are you Tyler Hamilton? Regardless of him doping , that book is a piece of crap. I can't believe anyone would read that trash.

Go Lance!

I grew up near the course and enjoyed riding my bike to Brighten Dam.

Have a great race!

I'd buy your argument if the announcement was made 6 months ago. But the timeline doesn't match to suggest a significant increase
in participation.

I'm a fan of Lance Armstrong and hope he has a good race on October 7. I wish he would join us for the bike ride in Salisbury, MD on Oct. 6.

True. But still more of an increase then if he was just making an appearence. And 6 months ago things stood a lot different with LA and triathlon so it's hard to use that hindsight....

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I read this trash. Very enlightening, even if you already know pro cycling well. You should give it a try instead of bashing it without reading.

Don't forget to boycott Mathew Mconaughey movies too
http://www.looktothestars.org/...ng-on-livestrong-day

Regardless of who is or isn't making money off this particular race, Rev3 is still creating an opportunity for an athlete with a lifetime ban to repair his image. Medical charities should be the last groups to pat Armstrong on the back and pretend like nothing happened - he participated and benefited from a drug culture which asks young athletes to make an awful choice - should I take the drugs and risk my long-term health? Or should I race drug free and spend the rest of my life asking "what if"? I know this is a sad story - especially for cancer survivors who saw him as a hero - but there are plenty of inspiring people who have survived cancer - choose one of them to be your hero and hold Armstrong accountable for his actions. Associating yourself with Armstrong in any way at this point is the same as condoning his doping.

I'm going to read the book. Haven't had time yet and I'm sure I'll find it interesting. But I have to go into it with the expectation that I am getting a skewed, onesided view to some extent just as I would if reading a book written by LA.

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I would if I could 100% trust the source and know they were not biased. Maybe trash is a strong word, maybe there are some half truths in there as well, but there is a huge bias from this author.

Maybe you're just going to see the other side. you've already had LA's view. He's been more than happily sharing with us all how clean he was
and his side of the story over the past 10 years...and he's been very good at shutting down anyone who tried to get in his way. You already have
had the one sided version.

Very well said.

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And not from Lance?? Where is the lawsuit against the book? Where are the statements from Novitzky saying that what Tyler says isn't true?
Where are the statements from Hamilton, from Levi? Nowhere.

Funny that every Lance fan wants to have unbiased statements but they take whatever Lance and his wonderful PR machine say for face value.

I'm not reading Lances book either, reading Born to Run now, very good. I agree with you on getting both skewed perspectives but I'd rather have neither. Just take issue with people proclaiming Hamiltons book is 100% accurate.

Coyle has written the book actually. And has gone to great length to make sure all the facts were corroborated.
It's pretty simple: if the book were even 20% off, there would be a bunch of lawsuits. And there are none.

Thanks for the amazing investigative work. Do you head up the anti-Lance division of USADA?

Ego.

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Suffer Well.

I just finished the book and came away with the impression that it was not so much about LA's drug use, but that LA is a complete and total dick and that if he might not be in his predicament if he had been less of a dick to many of his former friends and teammates.

Ditto

I do that because he's a lousy actor, not because he's Lance's friend. That's just a bonus.

Yeah but Coyle wrote LAs War, which cast LA in a pretty flattering light, also. I've only read excerpts of the Hamilton book, don't want to give him any money, so I'll read it all when i can borrow it.

Its possible that both book are in sync, LAs War didn't equivocally say LA didn't do drugs, but it certainly gave the view of LA as a flawed but decent guy.

Frankly I dont see LAs story vs TH story as separate sides of a coin. Both really bad guys on the doping front, IMO. The other side would be all the junior champions that basically disappeared when they got to Senior age . Matt Kelly has been mentioned but many other, male and female tore up the racing scene in the 80/80s then basically dissappeared.

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Styrrell

Cool, well we already know that he was to some people, so don't need to read it,thanks for the summary. And one could argue some people deserve to be treated a certain way. He didn't have to be a kiss ass to everyone he knew.

Coyle spoke to the fact that he didnt have enough info to so more both doping or personality wise he could verify when writing the first book.

I am completely not understanding the (in MY mind) desire to back out of a race and eat $1K of travel money JUST because Lance is showing up.

I can understand not liking dopers, drafters, course cutters, but....would you bail on a race because you have to toe the line with somebody that got tagged for drafting at his/her last 5 events? (or, say, served a 2 year doping offence)

Probably not. So, why the vitriol at Lance?

Why should the USAT / USADA give a rats-ass if Lance shows up to do an event as long as it's understood he's ineligible for awards (pro or otherwise). Is it just about insurance?

Theoretically yeah, but no race is actually going to deal with 2 insurance providers, and I wouldn't be surprised if 2 providers would balk at covering the same race.

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Styrrell

"I do that because he's a lousy actor" (pick6)


Now, you've gone too far!

Because rules are rules and if theyre just going to be ignored, why have them? hes not illeligible for awards, hes almost guaranteed to win the cancer survivor division.

"Coyle spoke to the fact that he didnt have enough info to so more both doping or personality wise he could verify when writing the first book. " (pick6)


Give it a rest. You're not making sense now.

I think that's a very valuable all of us should remember as we go through life.

I think he cheated, I agree with him being banned for sanctioned races, and I'd prefer he not race in races even were allowed.

That said what rule is being ignored and by whom?

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Styrrell

I'm not Tyler Hamilton (I'm a guy from Toronto). If you've followed the Armstrong story as long and as closely as I have (it was part of my work for quite a while) you come to realize that it seems to be Lance against everyone. So is everyone lying or is it just Lance? I've even cycled with people who were some of Livestrong's top fundraisers until they had personal contact with Lance. After that, they decided to fundraise for another cyclist-led charity (not Tyler's) because they didn't like Lance as a person. But you go on thinking that Lance is a good clean guy if it makes you feel better.

Maybe that's what interests him the most. Maybe that's what he cares about the most.

I'm not sure how posting about wheels or swimming would add to his credibility when he posts aboiut Lance/doping/hamilton/etc. (Not saying that he's an expert on Lance or that he doesn't know anything about wheels or swimming, but I don't see how posting on topics that you might not know anything about would lend any credibility to posts on topics that you might be an expert on.)

I'm not even sure why you would care enough to research what else he might have posted about. And I'm not even sure why I care that you care.

Sorry phone issues. Coyle stated during his press appearances for the hamilton book that he couldnt provide more during the 1st book because he couldnt get more corroborated. He'd heard more things about lances doping, including a few of the things that were corroborated for tylers book, but there wasnt evidence at the time (due to Omerta) to back it enough to put it in print.

He asked why USAT/USADA would have a problem with Lance doing a sanctioned race if he wasnt going to win any awards, interfere with the pro race or make any money. I explained why they might care.

"(it was part of my work for quite a while)" (Toronto)

How was Lance's story a part of your work?

I missed the part about a USAT race.

As far as Coyle's LA book, he wrote it and a lot was about drugs. If you can't or don't have time to get confirmation then leave that part out or its poor journalism.

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Styrrell

Have you read it? If not, then how do you know it's crap?

Exactly what I thought when I read his post. Thanks for beating me to the punch.

Is that your standard for determining what to read? If so, you must never read anything.

It's easy to talk a lot about something but the real proof is when you back that up with actions. I'm interested to see if Richie is still racing after all he's said today. If he races he's still supporting an event and sponsor that apparently diverges with what he believes in. Money talks though.

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Part of my job was the analysis of international anti-doping policy and compliance. Of particular interest to me several years ago was Dick Pound's public pursuit of Armstrong despite Pound's not having anything that, according to his own organization's (WADA's) rules, would count as evidence against Armstrong. It was a pretty clear case of Pound thinking that athletes should comply with the World Anti-Doping Code when he wouldn't himself.

The parts he included he felt were confirmed. he said there was even more he couldnt confirm that wasnt included. the new book confirms more of what he knew then plus a whole lot more he didnt.

Never said he was clean, that argument is so tired. I just don't think the book is worth reading, based on whose perspective it came from. That is just an opinion, don't get riled up. I admit it got decent reviews, but being well written could mean it's good fiction as well (with facts thrown in there).
As far as if he's a good guy or not, Im not going to read a book about someone who despises someone else to form an opinion. And an anonymous person on an internet forum (ok, from Toronto) who says every fundraiser that has had personal contact with him dropped him, should probably provide more evidence/facts before I take it as truth. All I know is that in my only run in with him, in 2009, he could have been a complete dick but he answered my question politely.

He says he's racing. Who knows if he has sponsor commitments to race their gear at X number of races. Plus, he's already committed, i dont know if dropping out affects entry to future rev 3 races as a pro either. Plus this race counts towards the Rev3 championship which he's currently leading. a lot of money for a pro. The fact that he's a Rev3 athlete and he still feels comfortable speaking out about this says a lot to me.

As for me, one of the folks who donated said "I dont care where you finish, just finish, and be the cleanest racer there. That's the way to do the right thing.". Of course he knows me, and as of 2 weeks before a race I wont take anything beyond Aleve to make sure I dont have anything even accidentally in my system. I dont know if I feel 100% ok with his take, but it isnt just my money involved here.

Money talks over anything else.

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Coyle researched everything. read the book. theres tons of corroboration from other riders and people.

Not talking about the drug part, im talking about him "being a dick". You could get a bunch of people to say he was, and a bunch of riders who will say he wasn't. There are still riders that speak out in support of him, so if he was such a dick why would they continue to do so.

Because they are still racing, and Lance can still break their careers if he wants to.

Did you hear his 'great pal' George H. coming over to talk about what a great guy Lance is?

Name 3.

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float , hammer , and jog

Sadly thats all too easy, because they sound like theyre speaking out in support of lance but what theyre really saying is theyre tired of hearing about doping when a lot of them are doing whatever they can to clean things up and want the focus returned to now. Read Talansky's reponses lately on lance, that got deleted when his DS talked to him. A lot of them dont want their careers ruined, while others like Wiggins, are just idiots when speaking to the press. Ok, wiggins is an idiot in general, but it doesnt mean hes not a talented bike race.

In support of him? Johan Bruyneel , ex dopers like Cantador have, and how bout Eddie Merckx. His opinion should mean something
http://www.cyclingnews.com/...support-of-armstrong

As far as him being a dick or not thats a bunch of personal opinions and I have no idea, and neither do you

Go Lance!!!

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float , hammer , and jog

Most often, that's true. But it's also a point that's easy to make when it's not your money.

Wait, so Eddie Merckx who he himself has been busted for doping 3 times, yeah of course he supports him, he helped develop him.

As for being a dick, plenty of people who count or counted him as a friend say hes a dick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQsqS-mY3jI

HTFU

He's an elite athlete, who just finished competing in a long grueling bike race and was being hounded by those people.

There was nothing wrong with his actions. The guy is human. Dam you expect a lot!

Was it difficult typing that with one hand while you watched the youtube clip?

:)

Pick6, amazing how much hate, and how much time you spend hating Lance Armstrong. You may be more scary than the diehard Lance lovers!!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss

Not to mention Merckx's son is employed by Lance

I can't believe NO ONE has mentioned the best part of this whole thing! My USAT membership expires next weekend and now I don't have to renew it until April!!

I dont hate. I dislike. And really other than some discussion time (that could be wasted on my seat position or something else equally useless) spent discussing the soul and integrity of the sport, and what it means that race organizers are willing to ignore bans on athletes found to be doping. Does it look like I only talk about Lance? Show many any other convicted doper currently serving a ban who is attempting to race, and I'll talk about him too. I have in fact, but that doesnt matter. See it as what you want. If Lance werent actively participating in our sport I wouldnt say word 1 about him.

Thats funny. He hasn't raced a triathlon since what June? How many threads talking about him have you been on since his ban? Not just participating in that thread, but probably having the most post in that thread or close to the most. Just pointing it out. You are like JRenfro's anti-matter!

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"Be who you are and say what you feel, because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind." - Dr. Seuss