Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think that it would be a great show on many levels if he decides to hang out at the finish line to put medals around people's neck :)


__________________________________________________________________________
My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [zoom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I would be very surprised if that didn't happen.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rrheisler wrote:
This is where, IMO, I'm able to draw the distinction. I don't think Lance should be racing in a typical AG or professional capacity due to the USADA sanction. I'd be pissed, for example, if Lance were going to be allowed to race in a professional capacity at Rev3 events, or if Rev3 were to drop USAT permanently. But I don't think he should also be prohibited from inclusion in a benefit event.

I actually think this is a good point. And while I understand the "rules" I wonder if things are open to interpretation? Why not let someone "participate" but not be allowed to "compete."

Say, let someone banned participate in a sanctioned event but not be allowed to place or accumulate any sort of points/money/prize. Hell, I'd ve willing to bet 70 - 80% of participants in most races aren't there to try and place or if they do they are surprised by their results?

I'm actually okay with LA "participating" in the event. It is allowed and based on the class he is racing in he isn't competing against the pros. As long as he isn't racing to place. Think of it like the people who wear wetsuits when it is about 78 (or whatever the temp rule is now) who can still be in the race but aren't eligible for prizes or placings.

But I stand by my statement I made earlier. I'm glad I'm going to be on the other side of the planet while the circus is in town. As a local to this race I would usually ride over to part of the bike course and cheer people on. I wouldn't cheer for him on sheer principle alone.

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mattreg3 wrote:
Why stop there? Shouldn't you be protesting ST as well because they allow Honey Stinger to advertise here?

I have no problem with that. I am sure there are PLENTY of members of the ST community who actively use PEDs. To think otherwise is ignorant.

To me it comes a question of where you draw the line. I see allowing Lance to race in any capacity in what was a USAT sanctioned race as thumbing the nose at the USADA, WADA and the USAT.

It is a slippery slope when ever you compromise character for a potential benefit
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Daremo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I mean, I even understand him not being able to go race Chicago, or New York, or any of the marathons. They're sanctioned events; they are signatories; they must follow the ban.

But I think that Half-Full is a different story in terms of the event; it goes beyond the sport. At which point, because it is less about the athletic component and more about the funds it is raising for UCF, I'm OK with him being involved.

What I wouldn't be OK with? Him racing as a pro, or racing the entire series. Many of the Rev3 events, although still charitably partnered with UCF, are about the RACE. Those he shouldn't be a part of.

Again, I know that's a strange distinction for some, but I mean, think about who shows up and what people talk about for, say, your standard local sprint versus the sprint raising money for the cancer charity in town. One of those people are talking about times, transitions, and the race. The other their talking about being involved, the money raised, and the fun of it.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mattreg3 wrote:
Why stop there? Shouldn't you be protesting ST as well because they allow Honey Stinger to advertise here?

That discussion has been had already. Go find it. I have little more to add to it. If one were to boycott everything Lance associated products tied to in triathlon/cycling, one could not participate in triathlon/cycling. Further, my issue is with the fact that a known doper is being allowed to race. He could have supported, done autographs, handed out medals. You dont think that would have filled the race instantly if people knew that was happening say 2 months ago? But thats not Lances thing, he has to race, and he has a connection here that got him what he wanted.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [mattreg3] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's not the same thing. It's just an ad. You aren't forced to buy the waffles. And I sure don't. I'm sure others have made the same call.
Several here have called Dan out about this. I (we) don't agree with Dan's way to handle things when it comes to Lance. But Dan heard
the concerns...
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rrheisler wrote:
I mean, I even understand him not being able to go race Chicago, or New York, or any of the marathons. They're sanctioned events; they are signatories; they must follow the ban.

But I think that Half-Full is a different story in terms of the event; it goes beyond the sport. At which point, because it is less about the athletic component and more about the funds it is raising for UCF, I'm OK with him being involved.

What I wouldn't be OK with? Him racing as a pro, or racing the entire series. Many of the Rev3 events, although still charitably partnered with UCF, are about the RACE. Those he shouldn't be a part of.

Again, I know that's a strange distinction for some, but I mean, think about who shows up and what people talk about for, say, your standard local sprint versus the sprint raising money for the cancer charity in town. One of those people are talking about times, transitions, and the race. The other their talking about being involved, the money raised, and the fun of it.

I have been a big Rev3 supporter, but take my position for a second: Anti Lance, not because of anything personal, but because he has further ruined the credibility of one sport and un-apologetically come to another sport and shows no sign of caring if his doping past (or potentially present) impacted the careers or sanctity of race for others. I raised money all year for this foundation, one that does a lot of things similar to livestrong but none of the money goes towards lances pet projects (the U23 team spending $250k/yr of livestrong money for almost no "awareness", etc.) on behalf of a family member lost at 19. I trained for the race as my last race of season, and hoped it would raise my USAT rankings as well. Plus it was a smaller race, which meant easy morning, not tons of traffic, a good experience. Now, chaos. Trying to call it an event as opposed to a race is disingenuous.

I just hope Charlie was against this but signed contracts gave him no choice.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seriously? He's showing up to his own charity rides hung over these days. My guess he's on the Lear jet 45 minutes after crossing the line. I'm guessing 10 autographs are signed on the way to the SUV pickup for his ride to the airport.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I completely get where your coming from, and can definitely see it your way, too. I respect that. I don't think calling it an event versus a race is disingenuous, though...but to each their own. I think there's a distinction to be had there; you don't. That's fine.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
wow! you guys have been busy!

Anyway, i am not going to read this entire thread, though i did skim it last night for a few.

You guys do realize that HE isn't RACING in anything more than the equivilant to a charity century ride right? he is in the survivors wave and will not be having ANY affect on the pro's race or top ametuer race.

can he show up to a charity ride for cancer and participate? yes. is that what he is essentiall doing? yes.

Rev3 is helping a foundation promote its race in an attempt at facilitating more revenue gains. Rev3 is dontaing its ability to help organize a race to help raise the level of the experience. Rev3 is not putting on this race the Ulman Cancer Foundation is. Rev3 is not eliminating the USAT sanctioning of the race, Ulman Cancer Foundation is. Rev3 isn't supporting drug usage in sports, they are supporting cancer research.

if you guys don't show up to Rev3 races next year because of HIS participation in a charity event to support Cancer then i guess i will miss the competition. as it stands now i think most, including Richie and his "speak before thinking" tweets are not looking at the big picture.

I have an oppinion about HIM and HIS participation in sport. Like politics and religion it's MY oppinion and I'm entitled to it. But i don't think i need to force it on anyone else.

This message was not prompted by or requested by my team sponsor. It was sent FROM ME and written BY ME. take it how you want.

Bash or embrace.
I am who i am

Love
Tim


Tim
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [baxnelly] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
baxnelly wrote:
pick6 wrote:
Francois wrote:
Does that mean there is no pro field anymore at Rev3 MD?


There is still a pro field which does include Richie Cunningham who has been outspoken in support of USADA. Lance isnt racing in it, Im assuming because he'd have to have a valid USAT elite card, which he doesnt have.


Fuck. Foes that mean he's racing in my ag???

Baxnelly. If you see LA while you are paddling around waiting to start in Centennial Lake, tell him how awesome a race SavageMan is and how perfect a race it would be for him - massive hills, all proceeds benefit a cancer charity. And then tell him that never in a million f***ing years would the RD let him participate - USAT sanctioned or not. I'm in disbelief that Rev3 is going out of their way to let a lie and a cheat who is prohibited from racing, race. Boggles the mind.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Tim,

You have thumbed your nose at the sports NGB by tossing them to the side in order to enable a sanctioned athlete to race.

You have shafted your participants who care about USAT rankings.

You could have shafted the collegiates participating in the collegiate championships if USAT hadn't saved your hide there.

All for what? To allow a big name who is accepted to be a lie and a cheat into your race. The cancer shield argument is nice, but wasn't the event already nicely raising funds for cancer?

ps - what kind of drug testing will you be performing at the event?
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
TimAndrus wrote:
wow! you guys have been busy!

Anyway, i am not going to read this entire thread, though i did skim it last night for a few.

You guys do realize that HE isn't RACING in anything more than the equivilant to a charity century ride right? he is in the survivors wave and will not be having ANY affect on the pro's race or top ametuer race.

can he show up to a charity ride for cancer and participate? yes. is that what he is essentiall doing? yes.

Rev3 is helping a foundation promote its race in an attempt at facilitating more revenue gains. Rev3 is dontaing its ability to help organize a race to help raise the level of the experience. Rev3 is not putting on this race the Ulman Cancer Foundation is. Rev3 is not eliminating the USAT sanctioning of the race, Ulman Cancer Foundation is. Rev3 isn't supporting drug usage in sports, they are supporting cancer research.

if you guys don't show up to Rev3 races next year because of HIS participation in a charity event to support Cancer then i guess i will miss the competition. as it stands now i think most, including Richie and his "speak before thinking" tweets are not looking at the big picture.

I have an oppinion about HIM and HIS participation in sport. Like politics and religion it's MY oppinion and I'm entitled to it. But i don't think i need to force it on anyone else.

This message was not prompted by or requested by my team sponsor. It was sent FROM ME and written BY ME. take it how you want.

Bash or embrace.
I am who i am

Love
Tim

A bunch of people did Gran Fondo NY which is nothing more than a glorified charity ride, and some of them got caught doping. Trying to separate the two is disingenuous. Further, he cant do charity rides if they get their sanctioning from USAC, which while run by Lance business associates has to follow WADA. Just being there he shows disdain for his ban. If he wanted to make the same impact he could have shown up, spoken, signed autographs and handed out the finisher medals. If you think that wouldnt have had the same effect, I believe you're incorrect, and it wouldnt say what this says about what he thinks of rules or the races of others.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
pick6 wrote:
I have a young wife I wanted to make sure the race was insured. Plenty of reasons to make that call.

.


Not sure what having a young wife has to do with you racing. Hopefully you have life, disabilty and health insurance. What would happen if you were out training and were in an accident? What if you were in an accident driving to the race? Plus their coverage is only after you file a claim with your insurance company and you pay a deductlbe and it may not even cover it.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Well, you should at least have read post 164 from Neb, here it is below :

Regardless of who is or isn't making money off this particular race, Rev3 is still creating an opportunity for an athlete with a lifetime ban to repair his image. Medical charities should be the last groups to pat Armstrong on the back and pretend like nothing happened - he participated and benefited from a drug culture which asks young athletes to make an awful choice - should I take the drugs and risk my long-term health? Or should I race drug free and spend the rest of my life asking "what if"? I know this is a sad story - especially for cancer survivors who saw him as a hero - but there are plenty of inspiring people who have survived cancer - choose one of them to be your hero and hold Armstrong accountable for his actions. Associating yourself with Armstrong in any way at this point is the same as condoning his doping.

Now can you tell us that having Mr Armstrong as your ambassador is still a good idea? That would help us decide what to make of Rev3 in the future. Thank you.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"This is where, IMO, I'm able to draw the distinction. I don't think Lance should be racing in a typical AG or professional capacity due to the USADA sanction. I'd be pissed, for example, if Lance were going to be allowed to race in a professional capacity at Rev3 events, or if Rev3 were to drop USAT permanently. But I don't think he should also be prohibited from inclusion in a benefit event."

The problem is that an increasingly large percentage of "Joe Public" seems to think there is no problem with drugs being in sports. They don't compete or probably even know anybody who is competing on a world-class level. The current drug culture in sports (yes, it hasn't gone away) is anti-athlete. It forces athletes to make awful choices where they have to either risk their long-term health or their career. At the moment, Lance Armstrong is the poster boy for drugs in sports. Allowing him to have any opportunity to improve his image - even if it were only handing out awards - will be seen by "Joe Public" as a silent condoning of his actions. Rev3tri shouldn't allow him within 10 miles of any event that they are associated with - much less completely changing the rules to allow him to thumb his nose at USADA by racing.

Cancer is a dreadful disease, which makes it even more offensive that Rev3 is using it as a shield to protect themselves from criticism.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [kny] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kny wrote:
Tim,

You have thumbed your nose at the sports NGB by tossing them to the side in order to enable a sanctioned athlete to race.

You have shafted your participants who care about USAT rankings.

You could have shafted the collegiates participating in the collegiate championships if USAT hadn't saved your hide there.

All for what? To allow a big name who is accepted to be a lie and a cheat into your race. The cancer shield argument is nice, but wasn't the event already nicely raising funds for cancer?

ps - what kind of drug testing will you be performing at the event?

"I" have?

"I" haven't done jack $hit.

I support Rev3's decision to support their charities decision for the greater picture.

i heard a quote somewhere.... "sometimes it's about the people and not about triathlon"

if "you" are still hung up no the logistics between participating/racing then i'm sorry.

i'm still planning on keeping MY personal beliefs out of this fight. I am also going to let you guys continue to argue about

maybe you should ask those pro's that are racing the event what the testing protocal is and how it lines up with their beliefs and participation in sport as i don't have a clue what it is, but i'm more than willing to piss in a cup any moment of any day of the year...... in fact i'm heading to the bathroom right now.

Love,
Tim

p.s. i will only attempt at defending my slowtwitch "honor" and my Team's sponsor for so long, at some point i will simply have to say "I quit, to spend time on matters that are of greater importance to me".

p.p.s My online image can be as tarnished as you guys can try and make it, it's an online image and my life revolves around blood and bones. carry on.


Tim
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Actually I have heard of a few who have received refunds. My coach is one of those.

My question is also those that pay the 1 day USAT license fee, will they be reimbursed that if they race?

.

Owner/Head Coach for Endurance Concepts
http://www.EnduranceConcepts.com
Sponsored by: Cadence Bikes & Multisport & Brooks
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [rrheisler] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
To your point... I would fully support Lance to do Run Across America to raise money, but to wear ANY NUMBER at was a USAT sanctioned race... That I disagree with as well as the message it sends.

The message I hear, as long as you are a celebrity, and raise money, bring awareness, we will change the rules for you.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yeah, sorry, I guess I don't see these "logistics between participating/racing". Is Lance not going to be given a timing chip? Is his wave going to be allowed to leisurely ride together in a pack? I certainly don't understand how whatever these logistics are justify throwing away the USAT sanctioning, sacrificing your participants USAT scores, and adding the cost of purchasing your own event insurance and officiating costs, which must come from the race's bottom line as you now must refund the $12 USAT fee charged but don't have the opportunity to raise your registration fee to encompass this new cost you have accepted.

Yeah, I just don't see the logic behind this decision. But, to each their own.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Neb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't think Rev3 is using it as a shield from criticism. I think by this point, someone in a staff capacity would have come over and said something if it were being used as a shield.

That said, I disagree with the sentiment that this allows Lance to rehab his image, nor that "Joe Public" is equating it as condoning use in sports. I think that Joe Public already has his opinion on Lance, much like everyone here already has there. No amount of participation versus non-participation is going to change that opinion. Look at, for instance, the massive increase of donations to LiveStrong when the USADA sanctions came down.

I do agree that there is a massive battle ahead regarding the drug culture in sports; however, I don't think that this is the battlefront. I think USAT needs to step up to the plate and test the pros. If they're going to be a WADA/USADA signatory, they need to help race directors be able to test. But that's neither here nor there in regards to this one, IMO.

Please see Tim's post above about the race itself and who made the call on the insurance for the race.

----------------------------------
Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [kny] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
this is not my dog in this fight:
but why do they refund the USAT $12 and not just re-apply it towards the current insurance?

even if the lose money the consumer see's no difference in the end "coverage". have you ever read the actual coverage? until you know what the new insurance carrier is and covers one can't make a claim on which is 'better'.



as i posted in the other thread, i will not be responding to more of this, i might read it, but i'm done.

Tim......out!


Tim
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [marvarnett] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
marvarnett wrote:
Actually I have heard of a few who have received refunds. My coach is one of those.

My question is also those that pay the 1 day USAT license fee, will they be reimbursed that if they race?

.

Yes. This was clearly stated in the newsletter from the RD announcing the change.
Quote Reply
Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TimAndrus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
If that is the logic, that is pretty interesting view. If you say your a usat certified race, than be a usat certified race. If you pull the plug, I hope they give every single person who wants to back out, to be given full refunds.

From the sounds of it, they have atleast according to someone else in this thread. Which is good on them, from my viewpoint.

------------------
@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com
Quote Reply

Prev Next