I understand your points and I respect them, but I don't fully believe the "Half-Full is totally different" pitch and that it doesn't exist for the sake of racing, etc.... Why the $25K pro purse and Half-Full being part of the $100K series payout in that case, if the purpose and mission of this race is so different from all the rest? And, yes, my race also exists to benefit a charity and my race also has (or had) a pro purse, so I understand the business rationale behind putting money into a prize purse to attract a field in order to give a race credibility, but my purse is a far cry from $25K + $100K series payout. And, the argument is that Half-Full is so different from all the other Rev3 events and this is the justification for tossing aside the rules to allow LA, but I just don't know that the argument holds up under scrutiny.

This is just my gut, but I suspect Brian and Doug were huge supporters of making it possible to get Lance to race, floated it past Charlie, and Charlie didn't think through as much as he should have before giving the a-ok. Will Rev3 regret it long-term? I doubt it they put on good races and that's what matters over all else. Are they correct in catching grief for it now? In my opinion, certainly yes.

I can totally see where you're coming from in regards to the pro race. I'd suggest that the professional field is there as an additional draw to the event, to help lure others who otherwise might not go or participate. Oh, so-and-so is going? I'll sign up to see them. Weak argument? Perhaps. But isn't it the same as pulling LA in, too? The purpose is to add more dollars to what's going to UCF.

I think that, in the end, this is a one-off thing to help UCF. And I think you're right; I think longer term Rev3 won't be hurt by it.

Nice to have a pretty civil back and forth over it, though.

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Editor-in-Chief, Slowtwitch.com | Twitter

Isn't the pro race the shorter distence event so there actually not a pro race with prize money associated with the event LA is participating in?

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__________________________________________________
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Do you think the dollars that go (or don't) to the charity particularly care?

to everyone concerned, while you should not assume any anonymity if you're posting here (per the forum FAQ) you should also respect the desire of those who do wish to remain anonymous. accordingly, a line of this thread has been deleted.

i think it's completely defensible to race this rev3 event even lance is racing it, or because lance is racing it. i think it's equally defensible to choose not to race this race, either because lance is racing it, or because it's not USAT sanctioned. i cannot imagine being overly righteously indignant toward anyone just because he holds one position or the other.

so, let's not get too heated up.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

You must be new here.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

"You must be new here."

you're right. who am i kidding?

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

I went on record in the Baltimore Sun about my feelings and the pure and utter crap storm I got via Facebook messages, Twitter DM's, and emails was pretty discouraging. When people tell me, with a 15 year career in cancer programs, that I don't care whether cancer patients live or die or that I hear members of a blue and yellow clad "Team" is distributing an email with my name in it, I can do nothing but shake my head. So apparently this is how it's done now, disagree and we'll unleash hell upon you and shout you down despite our do-gooder white hats.

Once again Lance does not unite, he divides.

how can choosing to race against LA be "honoring the ban"? or whatever the wording was from the opinion page in the summer.

Joel, I read it. Here's my response, "awaiting moderation"
Nicole,
Perhaps your training has interfered with your knowledge of the real world.
Your learning curve as well as moral ethics have a way to go, but you are still young enough to absorb important lessons from those older & wiser, at least I hope that is possible.
As someone has already mentioned, former fab athlete O J Simpson (if he wasn’t still serving time for that unfortunate incident in Las Vegas), would draw a crowd, too.
It is disgusting to me that you actually argue that since LA brings crowds & attention everything else is okay,because the PR Lance is different from the “other Lance”.
There is no “other Lance”, just a PR image.
Have you read about how he mutters to underlings that he hates appearing “at these things” referring to LiveStrong events? Not because he is modest & shy, because he isn’t really there for cancer patients.
Educate yourself before you preach.
CheatStrong/LiveWrong’s Foundation & related activities do not anything for curing cancer, everything is about Lance, LanceAwareness, bringing in the benjamins for himself as well as his marketing partners & advertising affilaites.
Read this http://www.outsideonline.com/...-Rats.html?page=all”
I am a Cancer Warrior, too & I FIGHT LIKE HELL just like LA.
The difference is I am not profiteering off the backs of those suffering through the fun of cancer. I support The Red Devils who serve in every way imaginable to help Breast cancer victims right here in Maryland.
I’ll let them know you are racing on their behalf & sending in a donation. They are amazing, the real deal, Just Do It. Because you have spent so much time & photos demostrating you really care about The Fight.
Don’t waste any time evaluating your ethics, get on the phone & Just Do It.
http://www.the-red-devils.org/wp3/
“Since 2002, The Red Devils has invested in excess of $1.8 million in services to help more than 4,000 breast cancer families cope with the economic and emotional strain of living with the disease. We have partnerships with 40 hospitals or other facilities throughout Maryland. Their medical staff and social workers refer patients to our business partners who provide a variety of services at no charge to the patient. Service providers authorized to respond to patients’ needs include van, sedan, and taxi companies; professional house cleaning franchises; Moveable Feast, and catering companies; respite and home care agencies; pharmacies; and complementary therapies practitioners.”
If LA really wanted to “be there” because he cares:
1) He should have not had the race unsanctioned so he could prove rules don’t apply to him
2) Have arranged for an autograph photo op meet n greet to draw in whoever still believes
3) Donated from his many millions directly
4) AND not raced at all.
Cuz all that does is draw attention away from cancer survivors who aren’t rich or famous to endlessly feed his narcissistic ego.
Oh, & I donate anonymously, because having my name out there as a hero isn’t of any interest to me.
That is THE TRUTH.
Don't aid LA in his hissy fit to still prove that no rules apply to him, send donations to The Devils, volunteer, do something that makes a difference. Peace out ; M

Luckily the folks on their high horse are just a few vocal minority!! I would gladly do any race Lance was in. As I have said before, if I were in his shoes, and ALL the others that raced before, during and STILL, I might have done the same thing.

Do not let the few distract you from the bigger picture. This is the tactic I see on TV all the time. The few think if they are vocal enough, and get TV time, they can get their opinion forced onto the rest of us.
If someone does not like what a business is doing, just go to another business. No need to try and destroy it for ones ego or what ever reason drives them.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

"how can choosing to race against LA be "honoring the ban"? or whatever the wording was from the opinion page in the summer."

this race is not part of the federation system. hence, it's not a requirement to honor the ban.

my own view is that, were i an RD, i would not sanction or not sanction based on whether lance is doing my race. i'd either be a sanctioner or a non-sanctioner and then that's that, i honor the bans because i'm part of the federation system, or it's moot because i'm not. that's what i would do as an RD, which i'm not. i'm loathe to tell RDs how to run their businesses. i can only tell you what i would do. but anybody who's been on slowtwitch for very long knows that the people who i respect above all others are RDs, because they put so much on the line. i therefore don't stick my neck very far into their businesses.

my main concern is that some of my very best friends hold opinions on politics, religion, and whatnot that are stridently opposite of mine, and yet they are men of honor and i'm proud to have them as friends. i just hate it when people on our forum react with such vitriol over a tertiary issue (in the whole grand scheme of life), because i know that if those of you with whom i disagree most vehemently were my next door neighbors we'd get along as fast friends.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

funny that your website shows what looks like "juiced up athletes" but you are anti LA

I was expecting 4.29 billion replies.

Who's trying to get on their high horses though? People (myself included) have had what I would think are legit concerns, are they not? I dont think anyone is trying to force any feelings on anyone, if anything it seems like it's both ways. I've only now in the last week heard that this event has now gone from a race to this wonderful for cancer only event.

And for the guy who talked about the potential consequences of what a race with Lance could meet and then getting crap for it, that's just as bad is it not?

I dont think anyone is trying to destroy this, if anything I think A LOT of people are in support of Rev3, and they see this move as a potential stumbling block for them and want to make sure everything is thought out. I think many have voiced a concern, but that's just immediately felt as "you are against cancer", blah blah blah. I think people are simply trying to figure out the blurred lines that this potentially created.

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@brooksdoughtie
USAT-L2,Y&J; USAC-L2
http://www.aomultisport.com

Is there a way to unfollow a thread like on Facebook? I thought it might die out after 100 posts or so, but 500 posts later...

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I tweet!

Totally agree. I've tried to stay out of the Lance stuff for that reason. I voiced my opinion once on Facebook and twitter and got some mixed reactions. I decided to then keep my opinion to myself because ultimately I value my friendships (real or social networking only) more than I care about what happens to Lance. I don't even know him personal.

You have mail :) ... again :)

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My marathon PR is "under three, high twos. I had a two hour and fifty-something."

" I've only now in the last week heard that this event has now gone from a race to this wonderful for cancer only event. "

Yeah, that was news to me too. It will seem odd not to have a clock running at the finish line or timed results posted for the...um...event participants. You know...because it's not really a race or anything.

Now that's just mean! He's lucky the number of reported replies isn't accurate.

welcome back toofunny. as you are new, i'd like to give you the benefit of my 10+ years as a forum moderator/manager. (when you called it was i to whom you spoke). i'm going to point out a few things in your post, not to argue against your point (or for it) rather to ease you into what i hope will be a long and happy association with 54,000 of your new close friends.

"Your learning curve as well as moral ethics have a way to go, but you are still young enough to absorb important lessons from those older & wiser, at least I hope that is possible."

i am - like you - old. you are right, we oldie-von-moldies have lessons to teach. but i find that my readers react badly when i tell them that something is wrong with their morals. i find that i get a *slightly* better response when i just tell them what i think is morally right for me, and just leave it there.

"Have you read about how he mutters to underlings that he hates appearing “at these things” referring to LiveStrong events? Not because he is modest & shy, because he isn’t really there for cancer patients."

i find that it's best not to decide what somebody thinks because you read that somebody said that somebody said something. i completely understand and appreciate this very simple ethic: lance shouldn't be allowed to race. i get that. i understand that. i have no argument that refutes that. i think it's best to stick to that argument, which can be a winning argument.

"Educate yourself before you preach."

bingo. i have known lance since he was 18 years old. on the other side, i have as very dear friends those who are stridently against lance ever being allowed to toe the starting line again. i think one of the very wisest viewpoints is that of charles pelkey, former velo news editor, who is pretty convinced lance used PEDs, is no friend of lance, lance is no friend of his, but charles is also a cancer survivor and knows that lance's work in the fight against cancer is unimpeachable.

"Read this http://www.outsideonline.com/...-Rats.html?page=all”"

i read that piece. i believed that piece. but i felt i owed it to myself, and to our readers, to investigate. read this.

one of my forum moderators banned you once. then you and i had a delightful chat, and i invited you back. be careful. there may be 54,000 of us here, but we all get along fairly well. tread carefully. speak your piece. but, as you have not yet grown to have any affection for the readers here who hold a different view, please understand that i do hold affection for them, and i'll ask you to respect that until you grow to have that affection for them as well.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

o cruel irony...

Seriously? Because my "SavageMan" caricature is jacked I am somehow for doping?

I am anti-lance first because he is a liar, second because he is a bully, and a distant third because he is a cheat. If he hadn't been a cheat he never would have become the star that he did, so I don't begrudge him the decision to go the direction he did nearly as much as I disdain how he has treated others and lied his ass off the past decade plus.

I wish he would go away. I hate that all the triathlon talk is about him and not about Kona, other athletes, or other races. Just take your goddamn $250+ million, your rock star and movie star conquests, your private plane, and enjoy your privileged life. Let cycling, triathlon, running be. Move on.

This, IMO, should be no more than what the rules are. But it seems some just want to see the guy, for lack of a better word, dead. I do not see him breaking any rules. I do not see RD's breaking any rules.
The races he cannot race at he is not. But, there are more races that he can, by far, than he cannot. No matter what the guy does, some will never leave it alone. I just see results that Nina Kraft
raced. Talk about a person who used PED's. But they have all the reasons she is okay. If these folks were consistant across the board and said if you are caught using drugs it is a life time ban, I would have some respect. But when it is okay if you say you are sorry, but not when you have NOT been proven guilty, well, just seems weird to me.

But I expect just because I have a different opinion, the attacks are going to start flying. And that is what is wrong with our world today. If one does something some do not like, they go off and justify killing anyone basically they want to. Pretty sick, IMO.

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

If you get attacked from "friends" for having an opinion, might not be the kind of friends I would want since in times of trouble, what would they really do?

.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep