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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
I can't see the event refusing donations even if you decide not to show up.

Of course they won't nor would I want them to. The charity is a good decision, and those loosely affiliated with Livestrong, ive checked thoroughly to confirm Lance didnt benefit financially from their donations (in fact he was single biggest donor 2 years ago).
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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For those who signed up because of "the cause" young cancer survivors, to pull out means you don't care about them very much. And your selfish side has gotten in the way just because Lance wants to race, he isn't competing for a win, is donating to "the cause" and will generally bring an upside to the event whether you like it or not. Unless you think the guy is just nothing more than a junkie and couldn't possibly be racing clean well can't help you there. Just go line up, race to the best of your abilities enjoy the day and you'll have something to talk about when it is over.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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Regardless of whether or not you believe Armstrong cheated, doped, whatever....the man has achieved great things. I guarantee, even those that dismiss Armstrong as a cheat...still have in some way been inspired by his races, epic moments, and other achievements. Love him or hate him, cheat or not...Armstrong was good for the sports we all love. This forum is made up of many who picked up a road bike for the first time because they caught a glimpse of Lance on Sportscenter, watched for countless hours on versus or OLN, or their Sunday newspaper and thaught to themselves...wow this is either a great sport..looks like fun...or that simply riding on a long country road or up and over a mountain pass takes you to a place that few others get to experience.

Its sad that we seem to be moving into a period of time when fact no longer exists...a single person's opinion can now eradicate a lifetime of achievement. We see it in politics, we saw it at Penn State, and we see a variety of it here in this case. Direct evidence, fact, substantial findings, etc...the things that make up reality....are now secondary to personal belief, superstition, vendetta or the like.....

Yes, we swim, bike, run, exercise...because we like it, it makes us feel good.....but deep down there is a competitive fire that burns in all of us....its why you train harder when you have an event on the calendar......its why you toe the line......Many of us took that first step because of Athletes and heros like Lance Armstrong.

I can't wait to hopefully meet him, shake his hand, and give it a good race.

Dr. MJP
3rd Dental Bt
Okinawa, Japan

"Embrace the Suck"
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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If I were you I wouldn't drop the race but since I haven't yet raced a Rev3 race, I'm seriously considering not ever racing one.

I think my personal vote will be with my wallet and my ability to influence (however small) on social media. I will only do races like Ironman, Gran Fondo NY, USAT, etc.

That being said WTC has a long way to go, I am really hoping for stricter AG testing for Kona slot winners.

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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [tritbay] [ In reply to ]
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tritbay wrote:
For those who signed up because of "the cause" young cancer survivors, to pull out means you don't care about them very much. And your selfish side has gotten in the way just because Lance wants to race, he isn't competing for a win, is donating to "the cause" and will generally bring an upside to the event whether you like it or not. Unless you think the guy is just nothing more than a junkie and couldn't possibly be racing clean well can't help you there. Just go line up, race to the best of your abilities enjoy the day and you'll have something to talk about when it is over.

I donated all year, actually the past few years. I have friends who chose this cancer charity to support me in specifically because it had similar goals to livestrong but it didnt benefit Lance. I care about people who have, and had cancer (including the family member I raise money in honor of). But I also beliee in clean sport, and that sports should have rules for a reason, and that doping is both against the rules of our sport, a bad thing to teach our kids has no consequences, and is dangerous to health.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Prie0065] [ In reply to ]
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Its sad that we seem to be moving into a period of time when fact no longer exists...a single person's opinion can now eradicate a lifetime of achievement. We see it in politics, we saw it at Penn State, and we see a variety of it here in this case. Direct evidence, fact, substantial findings, etc...the things that make up reality....are now secondary to personal belief, superstition, vendetta or the like.....

Huh?
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [ericM35-39] [ In reply to ]
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ericM35-39 wrote:
If I were you I wouldn't drop the race but since I haven't yet raced a Rev3 race, I'm seriously considering not ever racing one.

I think my personal vote will be with my wallet and my ability to influence (however small) on social media. I will only do races like Ironman, Gran Fondo NY, USAT, etc.

That being said WTC has a long way to go, I am really hoping for stricter AG testing for Kona slot winners.

It doesn't do much good to keep it to your self or social media. You should probably contact Rev3 and let them know too -- just a brief e-mail saying what you just said.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.
And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Prie0065] [ In reply to ]
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I was going to comment, but all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.
And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.

Are you saying Lance may have been pregnant??

Shane
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Prie0065] [ In reply to ]
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Prie0065 wrote:
Regardless of whether or not you believe Armstrong cheated, doped, whatever....the man has achieved great things. I guarantee, even those that dismiss Armstrong as a cheat...still have in some way been inspired by his races, epic moments, and other achievements. Love him or hate him, cheat or not...Armstrong was good for the sports we all love. This forum is made up of many who picked up a road bike for the first time because they caught a glimpse of Lance on Sportscenter, watched for countless hours on versus or OLN, or their Sunday newspaper and thaught to themselves...wow this is either a great sport..looks like fun...or that simply riding on a long country road or up and over a mountain pass takes you to a place that few others get to experience.

Its sad that we seem to be moving into a period of time when fact no longer exists...a single person's opinion can now eradicate a lifetime of achievement. We see it in politics, we saw it at Penn State, and we see a variety of it here in this case. Direct evidence, fact, substantial findings, etc...the things that make up reality....are now secondary to personal belief, superstition, vendetta or the like.....

Yes, we swim, bike, run, exercise...because we like it, it makes us feel good.....but deep down there is a competitive fire that burns in all of us....its why you train harder when you have an event on the calendar......its why you toe the line......Many of us took that first step because of Athletes and heros like Lance Armstrong.

I can't wait to hopefully meet him, shake his hand, and give it a good race.

I did my first triathlon well before I'd ever heard of Lance Armstrong, so he didn't inspire me to pick up my bike. I did enjoy watching his TdF victories on OLN, but I did so honestly believing at the time that he was clean. I trusted the drug-tests were hard to beat and that a guy who had recovered from cancer wouldn't be stupid enough to dope. My bad.

So insofar as he was ever my hero (way too strong a word), he has certainly fallen now. As a fund-raiser for cancer causes, maybe he can still be a hero, but not as an elite athlete (and I don't single him out here, any dope cheats are included).

As for your reference to Penn State, that's just silly. Joe P guy covered up a heinous crime against a child. Are you saying this is not true but rather a single person's opinion? If Joe P still inspires you, what can I say...

And you really believe that LA is innocent and it's just one person's opinion that has led to a lifetime ban? Sheesh.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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AlanShearer wrote:
From what I understand, however, it looks like the race was originally organized and advertised as a USAT sanctioned race, where convicted dopers would not be allowed. I think the organizer has an obligation to fully refund entry fees of anyone that now asks for one on account of this move.

Not gonna happen. Races advertise stuff all the time then change at the last minute. For all intents and puposes the event is still the event you signed up for.

Styrrell
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.
And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.

Fair enough, but until the rest of the pro peleton from that period starts coming down with cancer making the statement that PED's were the cause of LA's cancer is an ignorant statement that makes anyone who says it just look like someone grasping at any reason to trash LA. Which plenty of people will still do.

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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [styrrell] [ In reply to ]
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That it is, what I have an issue with is the collegiate conference *seemingly* celebrating racing with Lance. If this was 6 months ago, fair enough, but he's an convicted doper according to the endurance sports that he wants to race in. And I have no issue with him trying to race, if he gets races to break sanction to race, then fair enough. I just am a little confused/baffled what we as a usat certified conference are celebrating this for.

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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
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In response to Joe P...yes he made a huge mistake, but to be dismantled after 60 years of otherwise great service to his sport and university Sandusky perpretrated the crimes...Not Joe Pa...I'm not sure taking his statues down and removong victories from his record was the thing to do....There are other institutions that cover up far worse attrocities and millions literally worship them..it makes me think anyway....Lance has yet to be proven in a court of law that he indeed doped....yes there is evidence, testimonial, etc..but no direct positive test....and unless I'm behind on my information UCI has not taken away his wins and USADA does not posses that authority.....and yes, we exist in a time of opinion and conjecture rather than fact....I mean if Paul Ryan can run a 3 hour marathon in 4 hours and change...anything is possible!

Regardless, achievement in one thing should eradicated because of a mistake in another....

Dr. MJP
3rd Dental Bt
Okinawa, Japan

"Embrace the Suck"
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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So let me get this straight - you're going to ruin a bunch of college kids opportunity to race a collegiate championship because of your opinion on Lance? And you're calling HIM the d-bag...
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Francois] [ In reply to ]
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Francois wrote:
I was going to comment, but all I can do is shake my head in disbelief.

This.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Prie0065] [ In reply to ]
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Prie0065 wrote:
..There are other institutions that cover up far worse attrocities and millions literally worship them

Dude, just stop. There is nothing worse than child abuse.

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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TravisT wrote:
Francois wrote:
EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.

And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.


Fair enough, but until the rest of the pro peleton from that period starts coming down with cancer making the statement that PED's were the cause of LA's cancer is an ignorant statement that makes anyone who says it just look like someone grasping at any reason to trash LA. Which plenty of people will still do.


Here's the difference; lance's unique physiology likely made him uniquely susceptible to cancer by EPO. The same ability of his body to work well with medicines that made him an ideal doper is the same ability that may very well have lead to his cancers. There are a great many reasons to bash LA, Im merely stating that as a cancer survivor, it's entirely possible that he's no different than a chain smoker who gets lung cancers after it was known that smoking causes cancer; he took risks with his own health that may have lead to his cancer.
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [TravisT] [ In reply to ]
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There is no sure way we can answer for sure whether one single person got (testicular) cancer because of doping. Simply because cancer happens.
But we can sure look at the general population vs. the pro peloton. I am not sure anyone has looked at that.

That said, even though we can't say for sure he got cancer because of doping, we can be pretty certain that his cancer remained undiagnosed
way too long because of doping (e.g. use of beta-HCG...which should have raised a big red flag).
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [Prie0065] [ In reply to ]
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"There are other institutions that cover up far worse attrocities and millions literally worship them"

Care to give some specific examples? Are you referring to other collegiate sports programs, or perhaps to a religious institution, in which case I would agree.



"Honestly, triathlon is a pussified version of duathlon on that final run."- Desert Dude

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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [BDoughtie] [ In reply to ]
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I can see an individual being happyto race LA, but the confeences shouldn't be celebrating it. i'm not sure how an org can even celebrate something. The conference is between a rock and a hard place. Its pretty late to change venues.

Styrrell
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
TravisT wrote:
Francois wrote:
EPO is know to increase the metastasizing of choriocarcinoma...just saying.

And the use of beta HCG is the only reason to ignore elevated beta HCG in a man...otherwise you'd be
shit scared that either you have testicular cancer, or you're pregnant.


Fair enough, but until the rest of the pro peleton from that period starts coming down with cancer making the statement that PED's were the cause of LA's cancer is an ignorant statement that makes anyone who says it just look like someone grasping at any reason to trash LA. Which plenty of people will still do.


Here's the difference; lance's unique physiology likely made him uniquely susceptible to cancer by EPO. The same ability of his body to work well with medicines that made him an ideal doper is the same ability that may very well have lead to his cancers. There are a great many reasons to bash LA, Im merely stating that as a cancer survivor, it's entirely possible that he's no different than a chain smoker who gets lung cancers after it was known that smoking causes cancer; he took risks with his own health that may have lead to his cancer.

Hole is getting deeper....

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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [AlanShearer] [ In reply to ]
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I understand folks' opinion on Lance's history with USADA, WADA, etc. We're certainly entitled to have (and share ) opinions about if he doped, the investigation, his dropping his arbitration, etc.

Let's not forget that he is a cancer survivor - and clearly holds linkage to cancer survivors no matter whether he doped or didn't dope. To lots of folks - cancer survivors, non-cancer survivors, cyclists, triathletes, etc, he is an inspiration. He may not have inspired you, but the fact is that for lots of folks he is/was inspiring. He also has a history of supporting the Ulman Cancer Fund - so his continued support shouldn't be a huge surprise. At the end of the day, his involvement in the event will raise interest - and likely donations (which is really the key success measure for the race IMO).

I suspect (though I don't know for sure) that Lance will more participate than compete. I'd be surprised if he tries to "win", and even more surprised if he took home prize money or anything. Knowing that the intent of this event is to raise money - and Lance will most likely help do that - I'm not sure that I follow how/why Rev3 or Ulman has done anything wrong or why an athlete wouldn't want to race just because he's going to be there.

Joel | My Blog | Team Rev3 Tri | Twitter @TriMadness
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Re: Lance to race Rev3 HalfFull tri in Maryland?? [pick6] [ In reply to ]
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pick6 wrote:
Here's the difference; lance's unique physiology likely made him uniquely susceptible to cancer by EPO.

I'm certainly not a Lance lover...but that is simply not correct. There is no such thing as cancer by EPO. We know EPO
favors metastasizing in some cancers like choriocarcinoma, but we still can't claim what you just said. I'm all for the ban,
and frankly, after reading TH's book, I'm just disgusted. But there is no need to add non factual statements, or infer things
that just can't be inferred.
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