I would say let's do both for now. My budget is saying CF, but current availabilities may force my hand at the CF SLX.

 

ericfa117,

Okay, here we go....
If you got the SLX (or CFR) you'd need a size small. When you order here in the USA the bike comes with the short stem and that's perfect for you, as is the medium extension (also stock delivery in USA). The bike will arrive with the mid spacer installed I would say leave that but insert one of the wedges to add tilt and it will likley leave you at a Pad Y of 649 and you might love it. If, after a few rides the pads are too low, then pull the mid spacer and inster the large spacer and you'll be at 653 (or high if you like).

If you got the CF you'd also be right on the size small. That bike comes with a 70mm stem and that will work for you.

Here's a side note that's important... both of these positions will require you to pull your pads back ~90%. This will hit your position. Now, I feel that your Pad X of 389 is pretty short. If you want to get an idea of where the world rides - find your 653/389 HERE . The question we have to ask is "why are you an outlier". It could be lots of reasons for some folks: extremly long legs and short torso... or lumbar vertabrea fusion...or super long cranks.....or?? I know you a bit, know you to be normal so perhaps you and Moses needed to do one more trail foward on seat angle and you're Y/X result might have come out at 640/412 but both of these prescriptions above can progress to that position or even farther out and down if and when you're ready.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Fresh79,
There's nothing in your morphology (overall height, leg length) that suggests to me you need to go with the long/large extension. The medium has some good range.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks for the info Ian. 389mm is to back of pad, while middle of pad is 420mm. Of course this depends on the pad. I was fit using Profile Designs Subsonic Ergo 35A; whichever standard pads those came with. 653/420 puts me at the left edge of the chart you posted. In either case looks like a size small is what I should go for.

Hey Ian... would you mind confirming the frame size & aerobar size config based on your read of my fit / height / inseam etc? I am a bit lost...

Thank you so much Ian, that's very helpful. As a follow up question, do you think the angle base spacer would help me extend my current set up on the medium frame 2018 model? Much appreciated!

Allison

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Triathlon (n). An athletic contest in which participants compete without stopping in three successive events.

Ian - could you confirm the difference in the short vs long basebar/stem is 20mm (65mm vs 85mm)?

Hi Ian. I currently ride a Cervelo P3 size 51 that feels too big. I was fitted on the bike using Retul by a fitter who also agreed it was not the right size for me (see attached Retul file). Its better after the fit but I'm still not completely happy. I'm considering purchasing a Speedmax SLX when they become available but want to be sure I purchase the right size this time around. Additional info in case you need it, I'm 5' 1" and my inner leg length is 28". Please let me know what size you would recommend. Thanks for your help.

Hi Ian:

Here are my actual numbers:
I might be getting CF SLX or CFR


Seat Height ~ 750 mm
Pad X ~ 402 mm (455 mm to the center of the pad)
Pad Y ~ 625 mm
170 mm rods
80 mm and +17° stem

(according video tutorial)

I'm 1780 mm tall & 830 mm inseam.

Now days I'm using my oldy QR Illicito (M size // 52 TopTube), so far so good but it is time for an update.
My position has never been reviewed by a professional fitter, but I feel comfortable and looks good, although I might say that I feel prone to extend a bit my position (increase PAD X).
According to canyon fitment data, I'm right in the middle of S & M size, nerveless I'm kind of suspicious of been an S size, but it will fine if I really could fit in.
I might be looking for a more “advanced position” (I don know if this is the right term) increasing my PAD X, I thought that probably with the 85 mm stem I might fit, but still wondering between S or M size.

Thanks in advanced !!!

PS: Any ideas of:
- Why stocks are out? or when CF SLX or CFR are going to be availables?
- Is a new speedmax model (mayor changes) in the near future?

QR Illicito geometry

 
Fresh79,

Sorry to leave you hanging. Taking all of your input into consideration - and between the fit sheet, desire to prioritize comfort (respect!), etc., here's my thinking on the right Canyon Speedmax SLX for you. I think your Pad Y is ~675mm and your Pad X is calculated at 473 but I think you'd be happier at 490-500 (more on that in a sec). So... size large, flat bar, medium extension, and mid spacer- all that of that is certain.

Now let's get into the nitty girtty...
If you're ordering in the USA the bike will come with the short stem, flat bar and medium extension and you can't change that in the order process. If you're ordering in EU then I think you can specify what you want on the bike within the purchase process. The short stem will max out Pad X at ~483. You're currently at 473, I think you might go longer so 483 gets you 10mm more. If you go the long stem the range would be 450-505.

So if you're in the USA take the bike stock and if you want to go longer later get the Rad Sport tilt/extension thing. If you're in Europe get the long stem. No matter where you are get the flat bar and medium extension.

The bike comes with a box of spacers and bolts to detail the aerbar height. In the USA it'll come with the mid spacer and I think that'll be right for you but if you want to tweak the pad height it's easy to do and you'll have all the bits to do it.

Now, you asked about crank length... keeping this short and simple here it is: when you're in aero, long cranks close hip angle at the top of the pedal stroke. As your foot passes through the bottom (6 o'clock) position of the pedal circle and stars the climb up the back side your thigh starts to approach your stomach. As the pedal passes over the top: 11 o'clock, 12 o'clock, 1 o'clock flesh gets scrunched up, the hip gets "impinged", and for many the pedal speed slows, the whole circle gets sluggish, and power can't be put back into the pedal until the hip is opened up again and that can happen later than we like (3 o'clock, 4?). There's two ways to solve this: 1) keep the long, 172.5 cranks and raise the aerobars to open the hip and free of that circle (but the expectation is that kinda lifts us up into the wind) or 2) shorten the crank (for you prolly 160 is best, 165 might be acceptable) and stay low in your aero position and or even go lower. You said comfort is a priority and I am 100% with you on that as the key driver of your position. What if you could be comfortable and power and out of the wind! That's the dream scenario and short cranks helps provide that optimal position.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Allison,
The Rad Sport tilt/extender thing that I mentioned in the previous post will only work on the new (read: disc brake) Speedmax SLX and NOT on the 2018 (read: rim brake) SLX that you're riding. If you wanted to make the front end of that bike longer you have two options.
1) ...and this is assuming you have the short cockpit on that bike.... get the long cockpit. That's so easy for me to type and I worry so much harder to do in real live.
2) Find a Canyon, aftermarket part called the "TSP" (Team Switch Plate). These are small add-ons that will move the arm pads farther way but not the base bar - and I note that because I think you might want the base bar to move out and give you room as well.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Rfitz24,
Yes, that's correct.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Marilyn,
I can prescribe bike sizes and precises front end details with seat height, Pad Y and Pad X. When some writes in here to this thread and says "I had a fit done, what bike should I get"... my imediate reaction is YES! This person was smart enough to get pre-fit and now I can prescribe the details. I'm disapointed to see that the fitter you saw left out the Pad Y and Pad X. The numbers are critical. I've read dozens (hundreds?) of Retul fit sheets with the those coorindate included. Retul doesn't use the terms Pad Y and Pad X (wish they did) they refer to them as something like BB to Back of Pad or BB to Pad Stack, BB to Pad Reach - something like that. Dan Empfield (inventor of the tri bike, father of Slowtwitch) wrote about what customers deserve to get when they pay for a fit and these numbers are critical (I'd also really like to see crank length on here and saddle type - not sure what lcob is).

Here's how I'd like to proceed:
1) contact the fitter and see if they have the "BB to Pad Stack" and "BB to Pad Reach" (or whatever they call it) and get back to me with those numbers
2) let me proceed here now as if you only wrote in saying 5'1' and 28in inseam.

I suspect your Pad Y is around 557 and your Pad X is near to 410.
Speedmax SLX size XS, short stem, low spacer, short extension. It's a nice position as you have room to move the front end in all directions to make the bike an extension of your body.

If do get the nubmers from the fitter let me know here, I like to check my calculations against a real-world fit.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

 

Camo1976,
Based on the numbers you've given me - and thank you for using that video- you're a small for sure on the Speedmax SLX/CFR. Get it with the short stem, medium extension and it'll come with the mid spacer installed which is right for you. You'll have room to move the pads out and make the position longer so you can explore that cockpit distance that you're comtemplating....and, yes, I concur - when I plug your body dimensions into my formula my Pad Y assumption is only 1mm off your current position but the Pad X I would expect is ~30mm longer than where you're at now (and the prescription I've given you here will allow you to go 30+mm longer if you so choose).

Ian

PS. sorry I have zero knowleged of inventory or new model planning.

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian,

In your original post you state "If you don’t know your Pad Y & Pad X then let me assist you in identifying those coordinates" - I'll take you up on this.

What are they and how do I find them?

If you answer just one of my two questions, I will be eternally great full. Also looking to get a Canyon in the near future.

Thank you!

---

Training to get slow slower

https://www.strava.com/athletes/21210645

PB4....
Do you currently own a tri bike of which you like your position?

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian,

i am a long time reader in this thread and im looking forward to get a little help from you.
Unfortunately I’ve never done a fitting before and the speedmax will be my first TT, maybe a used one.
I am 173,5 cm and inner leg length is 82cm without shoes.
I think it should be a Speedmax CF Disc in size S ? What is your recommendation - could it also be a medium with some other settings ?
Another thing is:
Do the ‘21 models have differences to the ‘23 models ?
Is a ‘21 wmn model in S the same a 23 unisex size S ?

Thank you very much !

 

Malle457,
So glad you wrote in, I'm eager to help.

You're pretty darn leggy and based on your morphology I'd figure your Pad Y to be roughly 620 and your Pad X to be ~450. Based on that the best Speedmax CF for you would be the size small with the 70mm stem that comes stock that on that bike. You've have lots of room to move the aerobars up/down/fore/aft to find your perfect spot. The Medium could work and I say that because the Pad X won't be a problem - the medium comes with an 80mm stem and I still think there's enough room to go fore/aft to find your perfect spot but the Pad Y is another matter: I think you'll ride near 620. The lowest the Medium goes is 630, so if I'm wrong and you really ride at 635 then the Medium will work but if I'm wrong the other way and you really want to ride at 615 the Medium will leave you too high. The small however let's me be wrong in any direction and you'll still find your spot.

As I type this all the disc brake bikes CF models are identical in frame geometry so the 2021/2023 models are pretty much* the same (*they come with a Profile Design, aerobar and PD has made some changes over those years so there can be some slight differences between a Subsonic vs Supersonic type aerobar - but not much in terms of fit). The thing that makes the women's model a women's model is the color and the size range (I've seen 'em make an XS and XXS in the "women's color way" and not in the other).

If you have more qustions please let me know here, Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ian,

wow that’s the answer i was searching for ..
Thanks a lot for your help !

Short answer - yes.

Long answer - I have a 2013 Kestral (size 60cm) I bought second hand 6 years ago. I watched videos and read articles on how to dial in my fit when I initially set up the bike.

After each season I made small tweaks moving the saddle forward a bit, moveing the aero bars closer together, moving the pads closer, etc. I have never been uncomfortable before or after the small adjustments. The bike is adjustable and the body adaptable.

I recently purchased a second hand 2021 canyon speedmax CF 7 (Size L) and I am starting to think how to best set it up. Everything is so much nicer and much more adjustable than my old set up.

---

Training to get slow slower

https://www.strava.com/athletes/21210645

  


PB4WEGO,

Let's dig right into your original Qs..."What are they [Pad Y & Pad X] and how do I find them?"

Dan Empfiled (inventor of the triathlon wetsuit, triathlon bike, father of Slowtwitch) put his brain to work on a more comprehensive way to measure a bike (this was years ago). He came away with this idea... imagine a cartesian graph (an X and Y axis) emminating from the center of the bottom bracket of a bicycle frame. The Y axis would go straight up towards the nose of the saddle and X axis would go straight forward towards the tip of the front fork. Then we measure off of that graph up to the top of the head tube. The "Stack" (the Y) tells us how "tall" the bike is and the "Reach" (the X) tells us how long the bike is. The terms "Pad Y" & "Pad X" is nothing more than applying this concept to tri bikes. The Pad Y tells us how high the pads need to be and Pad X tells us far forward the back of the pad needs to be.

How to find em....
1) Best is to get a "pre-fit" from a bike fitter who is educated in tri, experienced in tri and has a dynamic fit bike - gotta have all three.
2) Second best is to measure an existing bike that's pretty good:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pZa8UIIwrYE
3) Third best is give me your height and inseam and any oddities and let me math it out.

Plane is boarding get back to me and I'll respond asap.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks again Ian! Love your work. Just a final question re the extension / stem measurements... my forearm measures 36cm from tip of elbow to centre of palm and 50cm from tip of elbow to end of my longest finger... do these values alter your view of the extension / stem lengths?

I am based in Australia, and to the best of my knowledge Canyon allows for some modification of the cockpit, i.e. I can choose a riser bar and short, medium, long extension lengths.

Ianpeace

Thank you for the background and history on what and where Pad-X and Pad-Y come from. Very intresting.

I'll take a stab at figuring out my pad-X and pad-Y from my old bike. If you are up for it I'll also ask you to take a stab at it. I figure getting 2 data points is significantly better than one.

My information:
Hight - 75in
Inseam - 34in
Oddities: none - pretty standard athletic build body

---

Training to get slow slower

https://www.strava.com/athletes/21210645

I'll see what you say vs my bike fitter cuz I'm genuinely curious....

Armpad stack: 727mm
Armpad reach: 413mm
Saddle height: 773mm
Saddle setback: -36mm
Armpad width: 253mm
170mm cranks (spin to win lol)

You should probably be using 155mm cranks.