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Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX
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Howdy Y’all,

Ian Murray here - fit instructor at both the Slowtwitch F.I.S.T. bike fit school and at the Guru Academy.

I’ve created this thread in a Canyon endorsed capacity to help prescribe the proper Speedmax for you: not just the size of bike, but the front-end configuration as well. That means the length of stem, shape of base bar, amount of arm pad pedestal, etc. to make the Canyon you buy the best it can be.

I’m not the one to answer questions about availability, nor do all manner of customer service, handle warranty issues, nor be a suggestion box about colors and whatnot – but I can and will deliver on fit. I’m not the best guy to this by the way. David (cyclenutnz) is better. Dan (slowman) is better too, but both those guys are too damn busy, so the task has fallen to me – and, frankly, I’m stoked. At the 2017 Kona Expo, I did nearly 40 Canyon Speedmax Sizing fits in 2 days and it was a joy.

If you are looking to buy a Canyon Speedmax and you want to make sure you get the right size, touch base right here on this thread. Best practices are for you to post your Pad Y, Pad X (AKA Pad Stack, Pad Reach) and I will prescribe the proper Speedmax for you. If you don’t know your Pad Y & Pad X then let me assist you in identifying those coordinates.

Happy to help, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum wrote:
I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁


I'm not Ian, but I'll go out on a limb and say you are not going to get a pad X of 580mm on any bike with an integrated front end. And at 5'11" sitting -7 on an ISM, you're just weird. You need a classic P3, 56cm with a 14cm stem and some super fore and aft adjustable bars.

I'd like to see a photo of the position though. I'm 5'11", ride a 155 crank, ISM saddle at -2cm, with a Pad X of 550 and I am really stretched. You're talking about roughly 3 more inches off (saddle to pad) "reach".


3 Months of Paradigm Shifting Swim Instruction for Cheap // Your Professional & Private “Critique my Fit”

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Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Nov 21, 18 18:52
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum,

580 is long. If that's a typo LMK, if it's correct than you're good for a Canyon Speedmax size large with the long stem (85mm) + the TSP (Team Switch Plate) in the forward position. That's to satisfy your 580 of Pad Reach. Then for your Pad Stack of 635 you'd use the flat base bar with a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. You could also do the drop base bar with two 20mm spacers or the rise base bar with a single 5mm spacer but I think flat bar is a better choice.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 14:04
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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580 is correct.

Is that available on the cf slx?
Last edited by: Fishbum: Nov 21, 18 19:06
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Team Switch Plate huh? Never heard of him. That bike in size L is showing on the Canyon website as having a max Pad X of 513. That TSP gets another 6+cm of reach? Seems crazy, but I not calling you a liar. I do want to understand the options on this bike as I expect to start to see more of them.

Edited - Ok, I see the SLX is a much longer bike. That might actually be one of the longest integrated bikes on the market, with the long stem and fancy TSP widget. Comparable to the IA with dagger stem anyway.


3 Months of Paradigm Shifting Swim Instruction for Cheap // Your Professional & Private “Critique my Fit”

The Swim Help Compilation Thread

Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Nov 21, 18 19:21
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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How about:
Pad reach to back of pad 490
Pad stack 596 (would be nice to have a bit of room to go lower if possible)
Saddle height 779
I like to be able to angle pads and extensions.

Thanks,
Gareth
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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Best thread ever,

Here I go:

- Reach: 470mm
- stack: 635mm

Height: 175cm
Inseam: 84
Weight: 64
Torso: 57
Shoulder: 36.5
Arm length: 60

Crank 155mm

I keep struggling between S&M...

Thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
Fishbum wrote:
I'll bite.
Stack-635
Reach-580
Saddle setback 7cm behind BB- ism PN 3.0
Crank 155

Height 5"11

😁


I'm not Ian, but I'll go out on a limb and say you are not going to get a pad X of 580mm on any bike with an integrated front end. And at 5'11" sitting -7 on an ISM, you're just weird. You need a classic P3, 56cm with a 14cm stem and some super fore and aft adjustable bars.

I'd like to see a photo of the position though. I'm 5'11", ride a 155 crank, ISM saddle at -2cm, with a Pad X of 550 and I am really stretched. You're talking about roughly 3 more inches off (saddle to pad) "reach".



https://www.finisherpix.com/...4_030370#2274_030370
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry best I can do at the moment.
Pic is from MD, seat is about 2cm further back now at 7cm behind bb, cockpit is 1 cm higher.
Im open to suggestions as I was considering getting with you or Eric for a new fit in off season.
155 crank is necessary evil for hip issue.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Dont have those measurements, but I have these! Would grab em, but I'm away from my bike a bit unfortunately.

Pad X: 136mm
extension length from center of pad to extension end is 330mm
Sitero seat up 790mm, set back is -60mm
saddle front tip to center pad is 530mm

I'm deciding between a CLX, Ventum One, and Premiere Tactical. Thanks for the help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm struggling to get to 580
L frame X: 457.6
Stem x: 85
TSP max x: 27
So the maximum pad mount x is 569.6
Minimum pad offset is 51.2
Which gets us 518.4 max pad x rear
Or 558.4 pad x centre
So Dave L is fine, Fishy - depends on the tolerance you work to

This is further complicated if you want tilt - the Angled Switch Plate gives a fixed 9deg - it is supposed to be used at the base of the pedestal so can have a significant impact on pad x when you tilt the whole tower.

Speedtheory
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Fishbum has come over to the Alien side. Welcome, and enjoy the free speed.

I'm 570/510 pad y/x, please can you fit me? I looked at the Canyon fit charts a while back and seemed to fit onto a Medium pretty well, which was a nice surprise as I'm long and low enough that I struggle with a lot of modern bikes with integrated front-ends. I'm currently on a 2012 P3C and the Canyon is high on my list of upgrade options.

Would also be nice to confirm options around seat tube angle ranges of adjustability - I ride pretty steep but the Speedmax looks ok for that to my eye. Obviously the thing you sit on affects that also.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian,

good to see this thread pop up on ST.

Not my numbers here, just a double-check for another athlete's peace of mind while researching purchase options for a first tri-bike. Canyon is not on the current list but maybe it should be.

Pad Stack - 545
Pad Reach - 463
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [travisfodor] [ In reply to ]
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Trav

Pad X (Pad Reach) is a number that needs to be at least 400mm, prolly more. Double check that. Just as an example...if the tip of your Sitero measures 530 to the center of your pad, and the tip of your Sitero is set back 60 your Pad X is very likely 470.

And if you don't have the Pad Stack now I can help you find it if you're near your existing bike. Get back to me here.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Mdiaz,

With Pad Y of 635 and a Pad X of 470 you should get a small Speedmax. The front end will need to have the short stem, the rise base bar, and a single 60mm spacer and two 5mm spacers under the aerobars. You could do the medium but you'd have to use the TSP to bring the pads back and I think the small would be a better choice.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What do you see as the big differences between frame sizes when you could ride either a size bigger or a size smaller?

I bought a large (still waiting to be built) with both the flat and drop base bars, 65mm stem, TSP & angled kits and the J and L bend extensions, but realise I could also ride the medium.
  • pad stack = 620mm
  • pad reach = 509mm knees just behind elbows (but I've ridden the last few years at 530-535 or so).
  • saddle height = 809mm
  • saddle set back (nose behind bb) = 15mm

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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Fishbum] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Is that available on the cf slx?

Yes it is.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:00
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Mdiaz,

With Pad Y of 635 and a Pad X of 470 you should get a small Speedmax. The front end will need to have the short stem, the rise base bar, and a single 60mm spacer and two 5mm spacers under the aerobars. You could do the medium but you'd have to use the TSP to bring the pads back and I think the small would be a better choice.

Ian

THANK YOU so much Ian,

Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!

When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

THANK YOU again for the help!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Gjadams] [ In reply to ]
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Gareth,

Your Pad Y of 596 and Pad X of 490 could work on all three sizes but we have to pass on the size Large because that Pad Y is the absolute lowest the bike will go (drop base bar, zero spacers) and you mentioned that you'd like the ability to perhaps go lower in the future.

Here's the details for the Medium: Flat bar, short stem, a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer under the aerobars - and, the pads back all the way on the stock mounts (if for any reason you had to reduce your cockpit in the future you could employ the TSP). The result is a Pad Y of 595 (just 1mm off your number) and a Pad X of 489 (again, 1mm off).

The Small would look like this: Flat bar, short stem, two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers under the aerobars - and, the pads forward all the way. The result is Pad Y 595 (1mm off) and Pad X of 493 (3mm off).

You should do the Medium. I have two issues with the Small under you: 1) 50mm of aerobar pedestal creates a bigger gap between your arm pad level and your pursuit bar level - it's just a ways to go to get to the brakes. You could do a Small with the rise base bar and only need 30mm of pedestal but I believe the bike comes with the flat bar so you'd have to purchase the rise bar to make the change. 2) I don't know the Front Center measurement of the two bikes. The geometry chart online doesn't list that element, but with some presumption and some basic subtraction I'm pretty sure the Front Center on the Medium is ~30mm longer and this would likely mean that you'll enjoy the stable feeling of the Medium over the Small.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Knighty76,

If you do the Medium Speedmax you'll need the short stem and pads dead center - that will satisfy your Pad X and it'll be beautiful. Now....with the stock flat bar that comes on it you will be slammed with no (zero) spacers. That gives you your Pad Y of 570 but you can go no lower - unless you acquired the drop bar and then you'd need to use three 5mm spacers to arrive at 570. I can say this: as the majority of triathletes age they increase their Pad Y - said another way - as we get older (say 45+) we want our pads higher so that we don't have crane our necks as much to look safely up the road. If you went with the Medium and the flat bar that I'm pretty certain comes in the box you'll ride it slammed as you are fit now. if you want to come up in the future - no problem. If you want to go lower in the future you can buy the drop base bar and you'll have 15mm to play with.

Regarding the seat tube angle - it's listed at 80.5 degrees but there's quite a bit of both clamp slide and rail slide to give you plenty of range.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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Greg,

Thanks for checking in.

For your (assuming smallish) athlete who has Pad Y of 545 and Pad X of 463....the only option is a Small with the short stem, flat bar slammed. Without the TSP (Team Switch Plate) the shortest the pad goes is 466. I'd set it up that way first and see if the Pad X of 466 will satisfy. If not you can add the TSP then it'll scrunch up the cockpit all the way to 439 so a few holes forward with the arm pad and you'll get into the 460s.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Yellow] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
What do you see as the big differences between frame sizes when you could ride either a size bigger or a size smaller?

Yellow,

My number one criteria is "room to move". I wouldn't want to spec a bike that painted someone into a corner and gave no ability to go 5 to 10mm up/down with pads or shorter/longer with cockpit. If one bike has an athlete maxed out one way or the other then I want to look at the other size - if it works.

My number two criteria is handling. The "Front Center" on a bicycle is the distance from the BB (Bottom Bracket) to the front hub. With the way we ride a triathlon bike (lots of weight on the front wheel) - if the Front Center gets short then the bike can be a bit sensitive (read: twitchy). This is, of course, to scale - a tiny person has less weight on an appropriately small bike so it's not felt as much but if you're 6ft plus and can choose between two bikes then going with the larger one can have an advantage in handling.

Your Pad Y/X of 620/509, the Large bike with flat bar, short stem and pads all the way back on the stock mount yields a Pad X of 511 (with TSP you can go shorter). To get to your Pad Y of 620 (on the flat bar) you'll need three 5mm spacers and you're there. If you go with the drop bar you'll need a single 20mm spacer and a single 5mm spacer to get the pads to the same height.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:00
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!



Mdiaz,

That typo doesn't change much - same size, same base bar, same stem - you'll just move the pads forward 3 holes (I think, it's 3) but I know the length is in there for that stem on that bike.

Quote:
When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

I need to understand this too. I've only seen one of those new bikes at Kona briefly and wasn't able to measure it, inspect it, etc. I'll reach out the engineers in Germany and get more info on the new front-end next week.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 22, 18 15:01
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm struggling to get to 580

David, I need to confirm again that the document given to me is 100% right. And, I don't own anything on the new bike with the mono spacer. I'll know more soon.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!



Mdiaz,

That typo doesn't change much - same size, same base bar, same stem - you'll just move the pads forward 3 holes (I think, it's 3) but I know the length is in there for that stem on that bike.

Quote:
When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.

I need to understand this too. I've only seen one of those new bikes at Kona briefly and wasn't able to measure it, inspect it, etc. I'll reach out the engineers in Germany and get more info on the new front-end next week.

Ian

Once again, thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I'm guessing the TSP solution will end up being the best call. Athlete's first tri-bike purchase (has been test riding a few though) and I'm betting on fit adjustments going forward as adaptation occurs.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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Greg,

If you go sans TSP the Pad X is only 3mm too long. The athlete might be okay with that as the Ergon arm pads offer some pretty good real estate. The TSP is there in the kit if needed but using it limits the arm tilt just a bit so something to consider.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm interested in what configuration you'd suggest for me. I'm probably going for medium frame, short stem, flat basebar.

Height: 184cm
Inseam: 88.8cm
Pad stack: 653mm
Pad reach: 468mm

I guess I'm quite inflexible, but it was my first fitting in TT position, so I guess my position will improve over time.
Fitting was done using a 172.5 crank. Would it be worthwhile to swap the default Canyon crank (175) to something smaller?

Thank you for offering this service!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.

Height - 173cm
Inseam - 81.5cm
Pad Y - 610
Pad X - 470

Thanks,
Dave
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [teeman] [ In reply to ]
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Teeman,

Your Speedmax is a Medium for sure and a short stem for sure and you'll probably use the TSP to get the pads where you want them... but if you go with a flat bar you have to max out the arm pad pedestal at 80mm (a single 60mm + a single 20mm spacer) - and that's to get to 650 which is 3mm shy of your Pad Y of 653. If you go with the rise base bar then you can use two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers to get to 650 or go with a single 60mm spacer to get to 655.

Any flexibility issues you might have far less to do with your position than your morphology - you are long in leg and short in torso (me too - I'm 6'1" with a 34in inseam and you're 6' with a 35in inseam). That's why your Pad X is short but your Pad Y (and seat height) is high. Not to worry - lots of fast guys with our build.

Now, to crank length....yes, yes and yes again. If you go to something like a 170mm or even 165s you'll likely get some more freedom in your hip angle at the top of the pedal stroke and, dare I say, maybe even go a bit lower in your arm pad elevation. This is a bit of speculation based on typical circumstances - I'd need to see you in this position to be sure.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Am ready to buy my first tri bike and settled on the Speedmax CF. Using Canyons fit questionnaire I should buy medium but given I can’t try it for size was looking for a second opinion. Can you explain how to determine pad x and y? Thanks
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian...I’m curious...
Stack 638
Reach 408 (bb to pad). 429 tip to pad.

Thank you
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Thanks for providing some fit feedback. Much appreciated. I'm considering a Speedmax CF SLX.

These are my most recent bike fit numbers. It was suggested that I go with a 165mm crank.

Stack:652
Reach: 484
Saddle Height: 743
Crank Length: 165
Saddle Setback:-25mm

I think I am in between a M and L but not sure which would give me the best fit and allow for future changes. Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Never had an official fit but just roughly measured my current fit on my p3c. A speedmax is my dream bike but never been sure if I could make it work with my height.

190.5 cm (6'3")
~87.5 inseam (34-35")

Pad X (rear) ~= 500mm
Pad Y ~= 640mm

I could stand to extend my reach by maybe 10-15mm but can not go any higher.
Video of what this position looks like: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Schv5w6N22w

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Last edited by: realbdeal: Nov 26, 18 7:59
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Let's see if this is possible

Stack 730
Reach 505
Cranks 175
setback 100

I'm 6'10" so i am use to having to adapt and may be able to go a little lower on stack and maintain but this is ideal.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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stack 665
reach 475

thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Pumphreywj] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Am ready to buy my first tri bike and settled on the Speedmax CF. Using Canyons fit questionnaire I should buy medium but given I can’t try it for size was looking for a second opinion. Can you explain how to determine pad x and y? Thanks

Pumphreywj, This is an excellent question. Here's my answer....

When an athlete has a desire to buy a Canyon Speedmax here are the prioritized ways that can and should happen:
  1. BEST APPROACH....Go to a bike fitter who is educated, experienced, and owns a dynamic fit bike (a bike that can be adjusted up/down while the customer is riding). The fitter you select must have all three of those criteria checked off - all three. The process might cost as little as $199 or as much as $399 and it's absolutely worth it and here's why: you will leave with the Pad Y/Pad X, the size of the Canyon Speedmax that's right for you AND the front end configuration for the right size AND all the fit coordinates that will be needed once the bike is purchased (seat height, set back, cockpit distance, handlebar elevation, etc. etc). I can help by recommending fitters in your area.
  2. SECOND BEST APPROACH...(this doesn't apply to you) pull out your existing tri bike, the one you're abandoning. If you very much like the position measure the Pad Y and Pad X of that bike. It's easy to get pretty darn close at home with just the most basic of devices (tape measure)
  3. OTHER GOOD APPROACHES....Give me your saddle height (assuming it's known and right) and your overall height and let me put it into an equation that's pretty darn good at proscribing Pad Y & Pad X - OR - Go through Canyon's PPS and let it prescribe your bike size.

it sounds to me like you've gone through the PPS and it's told you that a medium is right for you - so you're set.

Now......I'm a bike fitter, and when you're a hammer everything looks like a nail, so you won't be shocked to hear me say you should get fit. And if you agree then I beg of you, get fit first. I'm sure you'll still be a medium but then you'll know if it's a long stem or short stem, a base bar that drops is flat or rises, the amount of spacers you need under those aerobars - and a slew of other goodies that will make you very happy on the bike: seat height, set back, saddle tilt, arm pad width, aerobar extension, slight twist of those aerobars so wrists are happy, a bit of tilt of the aerobars so they are perfect, and much more.


Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.

Dave_o,

You are right the money with a small. It should have a short stem and pads nearly dead center to get your Pad X of 470. The best result for your Pad Y of 610 is a flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer. You could get it done with the rise bar as well with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer - The bike comes with the flat bar and, one could argue the aesthetic of that superior.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian...I’m curious...
Stack 638
Reach 408 (bb to pad). 429 tip to pad.

anthonypat,

The Stack you listed of 638 is a legit number, one that I believe is a Pad Y, and with which I can work. The numbers you listed as Reach (408 and 429) are too short for me to assume they are a Pad X. Are you giving me actual "reach" or Pad X? If you have an existing bike that fits well I can help walk you through measuring that Pad X to be sure. Get back to me on this, I'm eager to solve.

And, this seems like a good time to preach on the subject of terms for a sec....

Your probably already know this and you used these terms to expedite your post but I'm on a forever mission of education so I'll correct the others who will read this and other posts - the terms "stack" and "reach" refer to a very specific place; the top of the head tube on the frame of a mortal bike. That's a great number to work with when prescribing a mortal bike. The Canyon Speedmax is a super bike so we must use Pad Y and Pad X - or, in times of great desperation we could perhaps default to "Pad Stack" and "Pad Reach" but that is, as the brilliant writer/director of the movie Dope, Rick Famuyiwa helped remind us, a slippery slope.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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 Thanks

Pulling info straight from my retul report

Arm pad stack...bb to top of pad 638

Arm pad reach horizontal from bb to back of pad 408

This is a felt ia frd in a size 54
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TK17] [ In reply to ]
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TK17,

You could go one of four ways here. Let me work them outloud and then I'll give you my opinion on the best bet....
Option 1) a Medium with a flat bar, short stem and the max in spacers (a single 60mm and a single 20mm)
Option 2) a Medium with a rise bar, short stem and two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers.
-----keep in mind that those two options result in a Pad Y of 650 - 2mm lower than your number. The next Pad Y is 655 - 3mm higher than your number and then the Medium would have to have the rise bar with a single 60mm spacer under the aerobars. Also, in terms of Pad X - you're right on the edge of this set up: either pads back all the way on the standard mounts (yeilds a Pad X of 489 - 5mm longer then your number or use the TSP and push pads nearly all the way forward on those and I think you can get within 2mm of your 484
Option 3) a Large with a short stem, flat bar and two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer. This gives you the 650 Pad Y.
Options 4) a Large with a short stem, rise bar and a single 20mm spacers - again, 650
......if you wanted to error up on the Pad Y in size Large then it would be 2x20mm spacers + 2x 5mm spacers for flat bar...or...1x20 + 1x5 for rise bar. And, in terms of the cockpit distance if you use the TSP with pads all the way forward you get 484 on the nose. If you forgo the TSP and mount the pads all the way back you'll have a Pad X of 511

Now....which is best...hmmmm... Go with the Large, the flat bar because it comes stock. Add 45mm of spacer so you are on the bigger bike with longer front center. It'll give you some room to move if need be.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Nov 26, 18 15:53
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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anthonypat,

It pains me to type this but I think the Canyon Speedmax is a bit long for your 418 (translated to an estimated center of Pad X). I need to do some digging on the CF but even the new, 2019 CF SLX (which has greater range) bottoms out at 426 (the 2018 shortest is 439). I'll keep digging and if something changes I'll get back to you.

I'm curious on your report - is there a seat set back listed and what kind of saddle are you using?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [realbdeal] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
A speedmax is my dream bike but never been sure if I could make it work with my height.

realbdeal,

Good video thanks for including. You could fit on all three sizes of the Speedmax, here we go....

If you rode a size Small - long stem on the rise bar with a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. Its' nearly the max
If you rode a size Medium - short stem on the flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers, pads a bit forward
.............or..a size Medium - short stem, on the rise bar with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer, pads a bit forward
If you rode a size Large - short stem, on the flat bar with a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers, pads back the max

I'd do the Large - the Medium would work but with 75mm of spacer on the flat bar you're nearly at the max of the 80mm spacers and I'd want you to have the range to reduce your rather dramatic (~150mm???) arm pad drop. You could always acquired the rise bar and gain some space, but I still like the Large better.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
anthonypat,

It pains me to type this but I think the Canyon Speedmax is a bit long for your 418 (translated to an estimated center of Pad X). I need to do some digging on the CF but even the new, 2019 CF SLX (which has greater range) bottoms out at 426 (the 2018 shortest is 439). I'll keep digging and if something changes I'll get back to you.

I'm curious on your report - is there a seat set back listed and what kind of saddle are you using?

Ian

Yes, saddle setback -21 (ISM 3.1)

Pad reach for. Tip of ISM to back of pad is 429


Thanks Ian!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thank you for taking the time to answer everyone's fit questions regarding the Canyon tri bikes. My current tri bike is a Scott Plasma 20 (2013, size 54), and I'd love to get a Canyon based in how much I love my Ultimate CF SL. I'm worried one won't fit me, though, based on your recent post. My Retul report from 2016 lists my stack as 656, my reach as 436, and my saddle setback as -24. Would a Canyon fit me? Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [FFigawi] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'd love to get a Canyon based in how much I love my Ultimate CF SL

FFigawi,

Some bikes are built to be a bit long & low and some bikes are built to be a bit short & tall. A rider who needs a short/tall bike can achieve a great position and can be fast - it's not about what the bike is, it's about how right each person can be fit on that bike. Your current bike is something of a short/tall bike and the Canyon is something of a longer/lower bike. Because of that you'd have to get into quite a corner on the Canyon to make it work. If you got a Canyon Speedmax in a size Small and set up the front end with these specs: short stem, rise bar, the TSP, a single 60mm spacer + a single 20mm spacer it would result in a Pad Y of 645 - that's 20mm lower than your current position. The Medium Speedmax will get to your Pad Y number but then the bike is too long for you. Even with the pads all the way back and the TSP the Pad X on the Small is 439 and that might be within tolerances at 3mm off.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:


Option 3) a Large with a short stem, flat bar and two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer. This gives you the 650 Pad Y.
Options 4) a Large with a short stem, rise bar and a single 20mm spacers - again, 650

I think it would be good to add extension and pad width to your list of required measurements. I keep getting different spacer numbers to you and I think it's because I include the switch plate and TSP to get the Z elements - which then has an impact on Y.

Working on the monopost calculations this week.

Speedtheory
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for everyone!

Pad stack: 584 (to center)
Pad reach: 508 (to center)

FWIW, I ride a Felt DA in a 56 and a Cervelo P5 in a 51 in the exact same position. Looking forward to hearing what you recommend for the CF SLX!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cyclenutnz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I think it would be good to add extension and pad width to your list of required measurements
.

I dealing with quite a few PMs that don't even have their Pad X/Y. I'm worried asking for more data will confuse the issue. I take solace that when the customer opens their box all the pieces will be there to allow for options. I want them to order the right size first and foremost. I'll keep on the engineers and see if I can tighten my suggestions.

Quote:
Working on the monopost calculations this week.

I'll be eager to hear. I was just sent the prescriber for that new bike but I only spent 10min with it in Kona so I don't know if the numbers I have a perfect.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Mdiaz wrote:
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Just noticed there was a typo on my side so my X is really 486 (Y stays the same 635). I don’t think it makes any difference but just in case... sorry about my mistake!



Mdiaz,

That typo doesn't change much - same size, same base bar, same stem - you'll just move the pads forward 3 holes (I think, it's 3) but I know the length is in there for that stem on that bike.

Quote:
When it comes to the bar and having the 2019 model the spacers in the middle (not affecting the height as far as I know) what would be my advantage having them on my Set-up versus the flat one?...just trying to understand.


I need to understand this too. I've only seen one of those new bikes at Kona briefly and wasn't able to measure it, inspect it, etc. I'll reach out the engineers in Germany and get more info on the new front-end next week.

Ian


Once again, thank you!


Ian,

How can I get my Y-635 with an S, if Canyon states that its max arm pad stack is 622?...assuming that with the 2019 model, changing the bar won't affect to the Y, I honestly don’t see it.

Thank you again.
Last edited by: Mdiaz: Nov 27, 18 9:45
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [22kjackson] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian,
I really appreciate you taking the time to do this for everyone!

22kjackson,

There's two ways go and I have a strong opinion on which one you should do...
1) Small frame, Long Stem, Flat Bar with two 20mm spacers under the pads, and those pads pushed forward one hole shy of all the way.
2) Medium frame, Short Stem, Flat Bar with three 5mm spacers under the pads, and again, and those pads pushed forward one hole shy of all the way.

I think you, and pretty much everybody, should go with the option that causes the fewest aftermarket purchases. As of late all the bikes in the US arrive with a flat base bar and, I suspect, two 20mm spacers and three 5mm spacers and all the hardware (read: bolts) to make all combinations of that to work.

This is one of the reason I'm spec'ing the flat bar. The flat bar comes standard, if you want the rise bar or the drop bar then you have to make that purchase (you could make M+drop bar or S+rise bar work). BTW, I don't think it'll be like that for long. I think there's a time in the near future when you click the 'buy' button and then you are contacted asking - "what do you want, flat bar, rise bar, what?". For now I'm advising what comes spec'd unless is extreme. So, for you - both of those set ups are GREAT! I would want you to call Canyon at 833-226-9611 and ask: "Hey, I'm about to pull the trigger on a Speedmax SLX how long is the stem that comes stock on the Medium and how long is the stem that comes stock on the large?" and buy based on that answer alone.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Fishbum,

580 is long. If that's a typo LMK, if it's correct than you're good for a Canyon Speedmax size large with the long stem (85mm) + the TSP (Team Switch Plate) in the forward position. That's to satisfy your 580 of Pad Reach. Then for your Pad Stack of 635 you'd use the flat base bar with a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. You could also do the drop base bar with two 20mm spacers or the rise base bar with a single 5mm spacer but I think flat bar is a better choice.

Ian

Now that the SLX has the pad spacers on the stem within the hydration like Jan's, how come the drop bar still lowers pad stack?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Thanks for the reply. My saddle height currently is 825, I’m 184 tall with 90 inseam.

John
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [BigBoyND] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Now that the SLX has the pad spacers on the stem within the hydration like Jan's, how come the drop bar still lowers pad stack?

BigBoyND, excellent question. I'm still quoting the 2018 bike with two separate towers. I have the coordinates for the new 2019 mono-spacer of which you speak but I want more time with that bike to confirm the numbers.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mdiaz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
How can I get my Y-635 with an S, if Canyon states that its max arm pad stack is 622?...assuming that with the 2019 model, changing the bar won't affect to the Y, I honestly don’t see it.

Mdiaz,

You're 100% right. Max Pad Y on the new bike, size small is 622. I was quoting the current, 2018 bike which can get near 645 in the small. For you to get your 635/486 on the 2019 bike it'll have to be a Medium, with the short stem. I want to be able to deliver on the details of bar shape (2019 only offers flat and rise) and the amount of spacers but I don't have it exact yet. I should know more next week.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Looking at the EU site (2019 bikes) vs US (2018 bikes), it seems the coordinates have changed a lot.

2018 Size L
Stack: 628-681 mm
Reach: 498-572 mm

2019 Size L
Stack: 566-684 mm
Reach: 484-558 mm

So the 2019 can get 60mm lower? How is it so different?
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [bigleaguechu] [ In reply to ]
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bigleaguechu,

For the new SLX, the 2019, the one with the mono spacer under the aerobars you have to be on a size large to get your Pad Y of 665 - but I can't yet say exactly how many spacers you'll need - I should know that in the near future. To get your Pad X of 475 on that bike you'll need the short stem for sure and you'll need the TSP to pull the pads back a bit more.

For the 2018 SLX - you know, the one that's won the last four Ironman World Championships :) - on that bike it now has to be a Medium, with a short stem and then you'll need two aftermarket items (by this I mean, bits that Canyon makes but don't come stock on the bike currently): Rise bar, one 60mm spacer + two 5mm spacers (the 5mm spacer are stock), and the TSP (Team Switch Plate).

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Could use some help. Don't have a great idea of my TT bike fit as I currently ride an old Felt that was given to me for free and is definitely too small. I am a road racer that wants to step up my TT game during stage races. Can you help me get on the right size frame so that I can get in the right ballpark and start dialing in my fit? Here are my measurements from my latest Retul fit. Bike is a 61 cm Specialized Allez Sprint.

Saddle Height: 839mm
Saddle Setback: -111mm
Handlebar reach: 645mm
Handlebar drop: -119 mm
Grip Reach: 766 mm
Grip Drop: -113 mm
Grip Width: 435mm
BB to Grip Width: 435mm
BB to Grop Reach: 655 mm
Handlebar stack: 668 mm
Handlebar reach: 534 mm

Appreciate any guidance you can provide!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian, Great post. Maybe you can help. I'm looking for a Speedmax CF SLX. This would be my 1st Tri bike. I'm doing 70.3's and Olympic distance with a Specialized Venge... I'm 5'9" and 3/4 , about 177cm. My inseem is 87cm. I've take all my measurement asked on Canyon's web site. It suggest a Small size in CF SLX. Not sure it's the right size? Thanks for helping.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [madfoot101] [ In reply to ]
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Madfoot101, Tell me how tall you are and I'll see if I can work up an answer. It won't be the best answer, but it'll be a good answer. I've stated this before in this thread and I'm going to state it again not just for you Madfoot but for all athletes out there considering a bike purchase.

If you are going to buy a TT bike/Tri bike...

The best option is to go to an educated, experienced bike fitter who has a dynamic fit bike and get a Prescriptive Fit. A dynamic fit bike is just a tool but I believe that prescribing a bike like this can't be done with a road bike on a trainer, can't be done well with any static fit process. Prescriptive fits can be expensive $200-$400 but they are worth it. You walk away with your Pad Y (Pad Stack) and Pad X (Pad Reach) as well as the size of super bike that's right for you - in this case a Canyon Speedmax, AND you get the front end configuration: this version of the stem, that version of the base bar, this many spacers under the arm pads, etc. That's the "prescription" part. You also leave with fit coordinates: saddle height, set back, cockpit distance, drop, pad width, extension length, saddle tilt, bar tilt, etc. etc.

Another option is - if you have an existing tri/tt bike and you love the fit - let me walk you through the process of measuring the Pad Y and Pad X and we can duplicate the bike you love within the new purcase.

If you can't get fit before the buy, if you don't have a bike to reference then we can start measuring your bod and get close.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the response and noted on all of it. I am 6'4". Maybe worth going back in Jan to my fitter for a prescriptive fit if I really want to take down some TTs....
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I don't know how I missed this thread, but I will take a shot here.

X = 428mm
Y= 670mm

I am probably due for another fit soon, as I feel I can get a bit lower now then when I was fit the last time. Thanks for doing this. I'm 6'2" with a 34 inseam if that helps at all.

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ianpeace-

Thanks for doing this:

X= 424
Y= 663

Saddle Height = 761

I'm 6'1" with 32" inseam if that helps any.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I don't know how I missed this thread, but I will take a shot here.

X = 428mm
Y= 670mm

rsmoylar,

Let me start by saying this...I'm hoping your Pad X of 428 is to the back of the pad. I'm gonna add 50mm to that to get to pad center and make your Pad X 478. Now, this is super presumptuous but it kinda makes sense with your build (6'2" with 34" inseam) especially if you like to ride a bit cramped or maybe you ride shallow in seat angle - let me know, 'til then I'm going forward with 478 as the Pad X.

I've taken to prescribing BOTH the 2018 Speedmax and the 2019 Speedmax because...well, as I type this there is a 2018 Medium 9.0 SLX in stock* and I'm not sure if the next wave of bikes to arrive will be 2018s or 2019s. We're in a fun time right now so I'll keep working out both options to keep all options open for everybody.

So, on the 2018 Speedmax SLX you'd ride Medium* with the rise bar, short stem and one 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. You'd also need the TSP (Team Switch Plate) to help pull the pads back a bit more than stock, that TSP & the 60mm spacer, and the rise bar are all aftermarket items. You'd nearly fit a Large with the stock flat bar, short stem, one 60mm spacer + one 5mm spacer (still with TSP) but it puts your Pad X center at 484, that puts this presumed Pad X 6mm longer than you like, so there's a question - either way, when you refit if you wanna go lower there's room with both options.

On the 2019 Speedmax SLX you can only ride the Large and you can choose flat or rise bar and you'd still need the TSP to get back to the presumed Pad X of 478.

Let me know if I'm wrong about the Pad X, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
I don't know how I missed this thread, but I will take a shot here.

X = 428mm
Y= 670mm


rsmoylar,

Let me start by saying this...I'm hoping your Pad X of 428 is to the back of the pad. I'm gonna add 50mm to that to get to pad center and make your Pad X 478. Now, this is super presumptuous but it kinda makes sense with your build (6'2" with 34" inseam) especially if you like to ride a bit cramped or maybe you ride shallow in seat angle - let me know, 'til then I'm going forward with 478 as the Pad X.

I've taken to prescribing BOTH the 2018 Speedmax and the 2019 Speedmax because...well, as I type this there is a 2018 Medium 9.0 SLX in stock* and I'm not sure if the next wave of bikes to arrive will be 2018s or 2019s. We're in a fun time right now so I'll keep working out both options to keep all options open for everybody.

So, on the 2018 Speedmax SLX you'd ride Medium* with the rise bar, short stem and one 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. You'd also need the TSP (Team Switch Plate) to help pull the pads back a bit more than stock, that TSP & the 60mm spacer, and the rise bar are all aftermarket items. You'd nearly fit a Large with the stock flat bar, short stem, one 60mm spacer + one 5mm spacer (still with TSP) but it puts your Pad X center at 484, that puts this presumed Pad X 6mm longer than you like, so there's a question - either way, when you refit if you wanna go lower there's room with both options.

On the 2019 Speedmax SLX you can only ride the Large and you can choose flat or rise bar and you'd still need the TSP to get back to the presumed Pad X of 478.

Let me know if I'm wrong about the Pad X, Ian

I will follow up, if that is alright after my next fit assessment. Thanks so much! Just so we are clear though, that 9.0 SLX you have in medium, that's an $11,000 bike, right? Or am I reading their site wrong? Again, Ian, thanks so much.

Scott

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
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Scott,

That Medium that is in stock currently is the 9.0 SLX at $8,500 https://www.canyon.com/...hlon/speedmax/cf-slx
The SLX 9.0 LTD is the $11k bike

Please do circle back after your fit - and speaking of that, if you'd like some input on a fitter in your area just give me the city and I'll make some suggestions. As an fit instructor for both F.I.S.T. & Guru Academy...and many years in the community...and a very strong opinion about the process that yeilds a prescriptive fit - I'm eager to recommend if I can.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks again. I have been working with Ian Buchanan at FitWerx. I am in Vermont. I have heard from Dan and others that he is very good and I have been very happy with the work that they do there. I would love to hear of your recommendation though as I respect your opinion as well. Thanks!

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
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Scott,
You're in great hands at Fit Werx and on their Purely Custom Dynamic Fit Bike. Go back, go through the process again. See how your position has changed and be sure to leave with Pax Y and Pax X to center of pad. Get back to me and let's make sure we are dead-on for this Speedmax prescription.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [BTEEZY28] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks for doing this:

X= 424
Y= 663

BTEEZY2, you are welcome!

Okay...I'm going to paste a paragraph that I just wrote 5 posts above this one and I'm just going to tweak the numbers slightly so that it applies to you.....Let me start by saying this...I'm hoping your Pad X of 424 is to the back of the pad. I'm gonna add 50mm to that to get to pad center and make your Pad X 474. Now, this is super presumptuous but it nearly makes sense with your build (6'1" with 32" inseam) especially if you like to ride a bit cramped or maybe you ride shallow in seat angle - let me know, 'til then I'm going forward with 474 as the Pad X.

Here we go....on the 2018 Canyon Speedmax SLX you're a Medium, rise bar, short stem, a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer, and the TSP plate. Couple of notes here: the rise bar, 60mm spacer, and TSP are all aftermarket items. There is no other size bike or base bar that will work. If you went sans TSP the shortest the Pad X will get is 489 (pads back all the way on the stock mounts). That's 15mm longer - not out of the question as we see lots of fits where the rider could/should be riding with a bit more reach. And that bit there about the single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer that's yields a Pad Y of 660, if you wanted to error on the up side of things you'd do a 60 + two 5s - an easy fix.

On the 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX you're a Large with a short stem, and the TSP and you can choose either the flat bar or the rise bar, on the base bar shape doesn't have any effect on the arm pad elevation. I'm not yet 100% sure of the spacers needed to get to 663 but it's for sure doable. And it has to be a Large, the lowest the new bike goes to on Pad Y is 650, a full 13mm down.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JFGOTRI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JFGOTRI wrote:
Hey Ian, Great post. Maybe you can help. I'm looking for a Speedmax CF SLX. This would be my 1st Tri bike. I'm doing 70.3's and Olympic distance with a Specialized Venge... I'm 5'9" and 3/4 , about 177cm. My inseem is 87cm. I've take all my measurement asked on Canyon's web site. It suggest a Small size in CF SLX. Not sure it's the right size? Thanks for helping.

Hi Ian, this would be more complete:

I ride a Venge 54" with tri bars
Height 176.5cm
Inseem 87 cm (long legs for my height)

Pad Y Stack = 660mm
BB vertical to top of arm pad

Pad X BB Reach = 374mm (BB horizontal to back of pad)
Saddle Set back = -75mm
Pad X Reach = 449mm

I have a 172.5mm crank. Would probably need a shorter one. 165mm? 170mm?

Arm lenght 64cm
Shoulders 42cm

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian,

About to pull the trigger on the 2018 version currently on special CF SLX.

typical S vs M. ( site says Small )

- height = 177.5
- inseam = 81
- saddle height 69-70
- x = 46
- y = 63

( I would like at least 20mm either side with x & y )

any advice ?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

i'm looking to get Speedmax CF 8 LTD for my 15yo daughter, mostly for sprint triathlons and occasional TT. So, Female, tall, skinny, very athletic, never ridden TT bike before.
120lb
5' 9.4" (176cm)
Per Canyon charts:
Shoulder width 15"
Arm length 25.5"
Inseam length 33.5"
Torso length 23.5"
Canyon calculator yields size M, but entering a height of just 175cm yields S.

Her road bike is 2015 Felt AR3, 51cm, saddle is in "road" position, saddle height 762mm, saddle setback 55mm, crank 172.2mm, stem 90mm. Bike has Vision team mini TT clip-ons with pad stack of 648mm, and reach to the pad middle of 489mm from the nose of road saddle or 434mm from the bottom bracket centerline.
Would you recommend S or M? Thanks!!!!

P.S.: Ian, I apologize -- originally I posted wrong measurements for stack and reach, correct ones are ABOVE now. My apologies again.
Last edited by: vladi: Dec 14, 18 5:29
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Pumphreywj] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks for the reply. My saddle height currently is 825, I’m 184 tall with 90 inseam.


John,

I'm sorry for the slow reply. I wanted to work this formula I'm using a bit more and test it out. It seems really good. Based on the numbers you gave me - and you've got a long inseam - I think your Pad Y is ~632 and I think your Pad X is ~511.

From that ....the 2018 Speedmax CF SLX that's right for you is a Medium with a Flat Base Bar, Short Stem with a single 60mm spacer, and pads 1 or 2 holes forward of center. The 60mm spacer is an aftermarket item, it doesn't come stock but the Flat Base Bar does.

For the 2019 Speedmax CF SLX it's still a Medium, and it's still the short stem. It can be either the Flat Base Bar of the Rise Base Bar and I think you'd need a single 20mm spacer + three 5mm spacers to get to 630mm - or - two 20mm spacers to get to 635 in Pad Y

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian

Thanks for doing this!

Pad x = 385 back of pad
Pad y = 720

From a bike fit for my first tt bike.

188cm tall
81cm inseam if that helps

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [newbike1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
newbike1 wrote:
Hi Ian

Thanks for doing this!

Pad x = 385 back of pad
Pad y = 720

From a bike fit for my first tt bike.

188cm tall
81cm inseam if that helps

Thanks

i recommend you do not attempt to buy a bike to fit those coordinates. at least not yet. i want to see your position first. and then let's have a "fit negotiation". then we'll talk about a bike that matches your coordinates.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
newbike1 wrote:
Hi Ian

Thanks for doing this!

Pad x = 385 back of pad
Pad y = 720

From a bike fit for my first tt bike.

188cm tall
81cm inseam if that helps

Thanks

i recommend you do not attempt to buy a bike to fit those coordinates. at least not yet. i want to see your position first. and then let's have a "fit negotiation". then we'll talk about a bike that matches your coordinates.

Thanks for your reply. Are those values pretty out there? Unfortunately I don’t currently have a picture to hand from the fit, and this is for my first tt bike so no current position picture either. Obviously it’s not the same but I ride a regular 58cm frame road bike that’s stock except for the saddle without issues. Should a tt bike require that much modification? Sorry I’m new to this as I’m sure you can tell.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [newbike1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
newbike1 wrote:
Slowman wrote:
newbike1 wrote:
Hi Ian

Thanks for doing this!

Pad x = 385 back of pad
Pad y = 720

From a bike fit for my first tt bike.

188cm tall
81cm inseam if that helps

Thanks


i recommend you do not attempt to buy a bike to fit those coordinates. at least not yet. i want to see your position first. and then let's have a "fit negotiation". then we'll talk about a bike that matches your coordinates.


Thanks for your reply. Are those values pretty out there? Unfortunately I don’t currently have a picture to hand from the fit, and this is for my first tt bike so no current position picture either. Obviously it’s not the same but I ride a regular 58cm frame road bike that’s stock except for the saddle without issues. Should a tt bike require that much modification? Sorry I’m new to this as I’m sure you can tell.

385mm to back of pad is, for profile design, 425 to pad center. so, you're 720mm x 425mm to pad center, and here's how people tend to be positioned, if you place those coordinates on a cartesian graph.



there's a slope, roughly, and if you pick a point on the small end, say, 575mm x 430mm, and on the large end, maybe 675mm x 550mm, and you draw a line between them, that's the center of the slope. as you vary from that slope you vary from the norm and, in this case, the norm is represented by pro males (red squares).

if you're going to vary, then, why? because you're not a pro. okay. how much variance does that earn? because i'm long leg short torso, or the other way around. because i don't stipulate to the norm, and i think the cockpit should be longer, pads further in front. okay. but that's not you.

there's one person among all slowtwitchers - i don't know who - that has a pad xy roughly similar to yours. it's the blue triangle at the far upper left of the chart.

if you're going to be set up that way, okay, but, why? if i was going to drop a lot of coin on a nice new tri bike, i'd want to answer that question. if you can successfully answer it, you're satisfied with it, fine. just, what ian is going to do is precisely, mathematically, match a bike to fit underneath your pads. i recommend you make sure that's where your pads ought to be, first.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Here's one:
Rider:
1,64m female, but short legs at 72cm inseam (63cm saddle height on her road bike).
Is she too short for a size XS Women's Speedmax ?
On the website it says 67cm minimum...

Louis :-)
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for offering this. I'm looking at a Canyon CF SLX (trading out of a 51cm Cervelo P3 with 165mm cranks).

Below are my metrics. The online calculator suggested a small frame but a local fitter suggested medium so I wanted another opinion.

Height 5' 7"
Weight 130lbs
Inseam 33"
Torso 27"
Shoulder width 17"
Arm length 25"

Pad Y = 545mm
Pad X = 470mm

Caveat, I measured everything solo so the metrics are likely not as clean as they could be but hopefully they are close!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [madfoot101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks for the response and noted on all of it. I am 6'4". Maybe worth going back in Jan to my fitter for a prescriptive fit if I really want to take down some TTs....

Madfoot101,

Circling back on this..... I'm absolutely certain that a complete fit from an educated, experienced fitter with a dynamic fit but (and they gotta check off all three of that criteria) is the best out come but based on your height and your saddle height here is my prediction: your Pad Y should be 680 and your Pad X should be 517. I would really love to hear back from you after a good fit and see how close my numbers are to the fit outcome.

Ian

PS. If you want me to prescribe a Canyon Speedmax SLX from my numbers hit me back here and I'll follow through.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JFGOTRI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks for the response and noted on all of it. I am 6'4". Maybe worth going back in Jan to my fitter for a prescriptive fit if I really want to take down some TTs....

JFGOTRI

There are two paragraphs of explanation below...at the bottom I'll ask for the saddle height on your Venge, if you get me that I can act.

I could - with great reluctance - prescribe a Canyon Speedmax from the Pad Y/Pad X that you took from your Venge with clipon aerobars but I really don't want to. Let me explain why. The Venge is a road bike and while there are lots of differences between a road bike and a TT/Tri bike the one difference that's super hard to fake is the seat angle. This is especially true for the modern Venge that has that sexy, proprietary design seat post. The steepest you can get the seat angle (or, another way of saying this: the least amount of saddle nose set-back) would be by sliding the saddle as far forward on its rails as you are willing to go and then riding your TTs perched on the nose of the saddle. Even doing all that I don't think you'd be close to your optimal position for TT. The second big difference that's a bit easier to fake but still problematic is the height of the headtube (AKA Stack). You can try to strip out all the spacers under the stem, replace the headset top cap with one of John Cobbs razor thin options. You can put on a -17 stem or something pointing down, down, down. You can do some sort of under-mount aerobar so that the arm pads sit right on top of base bar - all of this to try and get an arm pad elevation that speaks to the TT position but you're fighting the frame the whole time and it's just not meant to be. Even if you have the best TT version that a Venge can be....it is very like no where near what your ultimate TT position is/can/should be.

So... I have your overall height of 1765mm and I know you have long legs. Tell me the seat height on your Venge and I'll come up with a Pad Y and Pad X that's pretty darn close. Here's my caveat - there's nothing better than a complete fit from a bike fitter who is educated, experienced, and has a dynamic fit bike - they gotta have all three of those elements to do the job right.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Barney11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
About to pull the trigger on the 2018 version currently on special CF SLX.

typical S vs M. ( site says Small )

- height = 177.5
- inseam = 81
- saddle height 69-70
- x = 46
- y = 63

( I would like at least 20mm either side with x & y )

any advice ?

Barney11,

If I'm reading this correctly...your Pad Y is 630 and your Pad X is 460. With that I'm good to go.

If you get the small you'll need....a rise bar with a short stem, a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer and a TSP (Team Switch Plate). The rise bar, the 60mm spacer and the TSP are all aftermarket items that do not come stock. If you did the small with the stock flat bar and maxed out the pedestals (a single 60 + a single 20) you'd have a Pad Y of 625, that's 5mm lower than your spec. If you passed on the TSP and just mounted the pads as far back as they go on the stock mounts (with the short stem) your Pad X would be 466, that's 26mm longer in cockpit than you like (and that's prolly a bridge too far).

If you got the medium you can go with the stock flat bar, short stem and one single 60mm spacer (that's aftermarket). You also have to get the TSP and even with that the pads in their most extreme position will result in a Pad X of 462 - that's 2mm longer than you're spec 2mm is typically something folks can't notice.

Now, let's pretend you're in my fit studio, you've just paid me $299 for a complete fit on my dynamic fit bike and we came to this Pad Y 630 and Pad X of 460. It would be my job there as well to advise you on Small vs Medium in the Canyon Speedmax SLX. I'd say get the small, pony up for the bits you need to make it perfect (rise bar, 60mm spacer, TSP) and you'll be happy for a decade, and you'll have some room to move if your position changes a bit.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Ian,

as with all so far, appreciate what you are doing here.

My fit co-ordinates are:

Arm pad reach: 428mm (to back of pad)
Arm pad stack: 641mm (to top of pad)
Saddle height: 728mm (165mm cranks)

Saddle set back: -50mm (for 76 degrees, may come forward)

Arm pad width: 237mm

First position back after long break - expect position will get progressively lower through time so some scope for lower (and probably longer) would be appreciated.

Think I am a medium but not sure if my reach is going to be an issue on a medium. I am also looking at CF rather than CF SLX

Thanks
Last edited by: hodgey: Dec 16, 18 20:47
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [hodgey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Really appreciate you doing this.

Fresh off a fit:
- Arm rest reach to center of pad: 470mm
- Arm rest stack to top of pad: 580mm
- Saddle height: 690mm
- Saddle to base bar height difference: 140mm
- Saddle to pad height difference: 85mm
- Pad width: 18.5cm
- Crank length: 165mm
- Extensions: likely L bend


I'm 176cm / 5'8" with a very short inseam (78.3) which usually makes Canyon bikes a good fit for me (I ride an Aeroad XS).


My fitter mentioned an S in CF SLX (2019 model - I'm based in Europe) was likely bang on but any advice on stem/pad/etc. would be much appreciated.


Let me know if you need any other fit metrics.


Thanks!
Bertrand
Last edited by: Bertrand: Dec 15, 18 6:17
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Scott,
You're in great hands at Fit Werx and on their Purely Custom Dynamic Fit Bike. Go back, go through the process again. See how your position has changed and be sure to leave with Pax Y and Pax X to center of pad. Get back to me and let's make sure we are dead-on for this Speedmax prescription.

Ian

Hi Ian,

Just did follow up assessment with Ian Buchanan at Fitwerx and he did in fact tweak things a bit. He made me a bit lower and bit longer. New numbers:
Pad Y: 64 cm
Pad X: 52.5 cm This is to center of pad.


Can't wait to hear what you have to say!

Scott

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Does Canyon have a 100mm stem for the CF? What is the angle on it and or the 90mm.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [vladi] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
i'm looking to get Speedmax CF 8 LTD for my 15yo daughter, mostly for sprint triathlons and occasional TT. So, Female, tall, skinny, very athletic, never ridden TT bike before.

vladi,

Most of the prescriptions I've made on this thread have been about the SLX bike but you're asking about the Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 LTD and I want to be able to nail the details on that bike as well. First let me say that the SLX is a straight up "superbike" (a bike that can ONLY use an OEM {Original Equipment Manufacturer} or proprietary design stem). The CF is not a full blown superbike but I'm hesitant to consider it a complete mortal-bike either (Mortal-bike: we size by Stack and Reach), and here's why...many of Canyon's bikes come with a steer tube that is 1 1/4 inch in diameter (nearly the entire rest of the bike world lives by 1 1/8 in steer and some 1in). There just aren't that many stems from which to choose for the big steerers. That's not a worry here either for two reasons: 1) Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm stem for the CF AND it's built with Profile Design Subsonic 35As and those have some adjust-ability.

I've pulled some pertinent bits of data from the info you gave me (thanks for all that) and I'm going with a Pad Y of 620 and Pad X of 470.

With that in mind: she could fit on either a small or a medium but with the small she's right near the edge of the Pad X max of 472. That's not a huge issue as the small comes spec'd with the 70mm stem and she'd have the ability to get longer with an 80mm stem. This is really a toss up for me, I think she'd come to love either size. If I had to pick one it might be the medium just because I know it has a longer front-center (I don't know who much longer, but the wheel base is 13mm longer) so I think the medium might be a tiny bit more stable in windy conditions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
1) Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm stem for the CF AND it's built with Profile Design Subsonic 35As and those have some adjust-ability.

that's a big improvement over previous versions of the CF that I've fit... OEM equipment was preventing good fits for athletes with certain body types.

Eric Reid
AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio Coaching and Bike Fitting
Chapel Hill, NC
Aerodynamic Optimized Bike Fitting, Retul Pre-Purchase Bike Fitting, USAT Level 1 Triathlon Coaching, Nutrition
Ask me: Scody Optimized Speed Suits | CeramicSpeed Oversized Pulley Systems | HUUB Skinsuits and Wetsuits | Bombshell Aerodynamic BMX Wheels
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you so much for a super-detailed reply, Ian! This is very helpful. Interestingly, this puts her right into a sweep spot on you pad position graph.
Last edited by: vladi: Dec 16, 18 14:44
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
louisn wrote:
Here's one:
Rider:
1,64m female, but short legs at 72cm inseam (63cm saddle height on her road bike).
Is she too short for a size XS Women's Speedmax ?
On the website it says 67cm minimum...

Louis :-)


Hi Ian,

Here are the numbers I have from the bike fitter on her last TT setup (on a road bike):

Saddle height from center BB to center top of saddle : 64 cm
Center of BB to forearm pads (horizontal): 45.6 cm
Saddle nose to forearm pads (horizontal): 48.9 cm
Saddle setback (nose to center BB): -3.3 cm
Cockpit length ( forearm pads to tip of extensions): 27 cm
Forearm pads width: 16.5 cm
Extensions width: 8.5 cm
Forearm pads drop (from saddle height): 2,4 cm

Thanks for the help. I would love to be able to put my hands on a Canyon in Canada (if they're not too ''high'' that is)

Louis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Dec 16, 18 18:47
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
When I enter my daughter's numbers in the bike fit assistant on the Canyon website, the system says it's not possible ... lol !
I have to "cheat" and add two inches to her inseam for the system to work. For arm pads reach , no problems there as she has a long torso.

Notice: I have the same problem with Argon 18. On their chart, the size XS states the minimum saddle height is 64cm, but at Argon 18 they say minimum saddle height sould be 67cm .... hum :-/ !!

Louis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Dec 17, 18 11:08
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

JFGOTRI

There are two paragraphs of explanation below...at the bottom I'll ask for the saddle height on your Venge, if you get me that I can act.

I could - with great reluctance - prescribe a Canyon Speedmax from the Pad Y/Pad X that you took from your Venge with clipon aerobars but I really don't want to. Let me explain why. The Venge is a road bike and while there are lots of differences between a road bike and a TT/Tri bike the one difference that's super hard to fake is the seat angle. This is especially true for the modern Venge that has that sexy, proprietary design seat post. The steepest you can get the seat angle (or, another way of saying this: the least amount of saddle nose set-back) would be by sliding the saddle as far forward on its rails as you are willing to go and then riding your TTs perched on the nose of the saddle. Even doing all that I don't think you'd be close to your optimal position for TT. The second big difference that's a bit easier to fake but still problematic is the height of the headtube (AKA Stack). You can try to strip out all the spacers under the stem, replace the headset top cap with one of John Cobbs razor thin options. You can put on a -17 stem or something pointing down, down, down. You can do some sort of under-mount aerobar so that the arm pads sit right on top of base bar - all of this to try and get an arm pad elevation that speaks to the TT position but you're fighting the frame the whole time and it's just not meant to be. Even if you have the best TT version that a Venge can be....it is very like no where near what your ultimate TT position is/can/should be.

So... I have your overall height of 1765mm and I know you have long legs. Tell me the seat height on your Venge and I'll come up with a Pad Y and Pad X that's pretty darn close. Here's my caveat - there's nothing better than a complete fit from a bike fitter who is educated, experienced, and has a dynamic fit bike - they gotta have all three of those elements to do the job right.

Ian[/quote]
Hi Ian,

Thanks for the explanations. I did measure it and it's at 766mm if I take the lowest part of the saddle and about 770mm if I go straight following seat post tube from center of BB. I have 86-87cm inseam.

Also, I think I could easily have a longer Pad X reach. Probably would be more confortable with at least +10-15mm (would give 460 to 465mm).

Thanks for helping.

JF
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [newbike1] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
newbike1,

I've held off from responding because once Slowman weighs in....well, what's needed to be said has been said. I want to make sure you get the right bike under you. To that end....I was thinking I could recommend a fitter who fits the criteria that I require to be considered good: educated, experienced, and can do your fit on their dynamic fit bike. If you want to follow up on that let me know where you're located and I can try and come up with a fitter.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I have to "cheat" and add two inches to her inseam for the system to work. For arm pads reach , no problems there as she has a long torso.

louisn

The problem we're up against is saddle height. I don't have minimal saddle height for the SLX bike but for the CF the lowest it goes is 670 and she's at 630 on her road ride and 640 on her TT fit. at 164cm in height that's our dilemma. I even worry a bit about stand over height in this situation as well.

This thread is pretty focused on Pad Y and Pad X to prescribe the right size bike with the right front end configuration but if the rider is so tiny that we can't get the seat height right then we can't go forward in the rest of the fit. I want to recommend this article, get back to me here if you want to discuss... https://www.slowtwitch.com/...Down_To_It_6337.html

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the replay Ian.

I was afraid you would refer me to 650c wheels...
Why afraid ? Because my twin daughters are racing in UCI sanctioned races, and from what I witness, first of all it seems there is very limited choices when it comes to 650c UCI ''crested'' TT bike frames. And second, I just checked for 650c wheels on Zipp and HED websites. Nothing there for the last 6 years or so.... :-/ ...
EDIT: I read your link to the end, it seems there are a few options still available. I'll do a search and see if these wheels are UCI approved.


Louis :-)
Last edited by: louisn: Dec 17, 18 20:01
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Scott,
You're in great hands at Fit Werx and on their Purely Custom Dynamic Fit Bike. Go back, go through the process again. See how your position has changed and be sure to leave with Pax Y and Pax X to center of pad. Get back to me and let's make sure we are dead-on for this Speedmax prescription.

Ian

Just throwing this out there again, in case you missed it.

Hi Ian,

Just did follow up assessment with Ian Buchanan at Fitwerx and he did in fact tweak things a bit. He made me a bit lower and bit longer. New numbers:
Pad Y: 64 cm
Pad X: 52.5 cm This is to center of pad.


Can't wait to hear what you have to say!

Scott




Team Zoot
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian
Thank you for doing this

saddle high 741 mm
saddle set back 3 mm
Pad reach to back of pad 474 mm
stack 640 mm
Height 181 cm
Cranks 172.5

Thanks


Nico
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Below are my metrics. The online calculator suggested a small frame but a local fitter suggested medium so I wanted another opinion.
Pad Y = 545mm
Pad X = 470mm


sfjab,

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX it can only be the small (the lowest the pads will go on the medium is 555 (and that's with the drop bar, if you go with the stock flat bar the lowest is 570). So, for you it's a size small with the flat bar, short stem and slammed (that is to say - no spacers between the aerbars and the base bar). You can mount the arm pads in the stock mounts and just move 'em back one or two holes of center to get your Pad X of 470.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX the lowest the size small goes is 565. Your Pad X is not problem: short stem, pads back slightly.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Bulldogjcz] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Does Canyon have a 100mm stem for the CF? What is the angle on it and or the 90mm.

Bulldogjcz,

No 100m stems for the CF, only 70, 80, 90. Regarding the angle of that stem...I've studies images on the CF all across the internet since you asked and I'm supremely confident the stem has a -17 degree pitch. The head tube on the CF is 73 degrees for S-XL only the XS is the odd ball at 72.5 degrees.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rsmoylan] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Just did follow up assessment with Ian Buchanan at Fitwerx and he did in fact tweak things a bit. He made me a bit lower and bit longer. New numbers:
Pad Y: 64 cm
Pad X: 52.5 cm This is to center of pad.
Can't wait to hear what you have to say!


Scott,

Good on ya for staying diligent with your fit coordinates.

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX you can go one of two ways....
1) Medium with the flat bar, long stem, a single 60mm spacer + two 5mm spacers and pads dead center.
or
2) Large with flat bar, short stem a single 20mm spacer + three 3mm spacers and pads dead center.
There's no wrong choice here, I can't even make an argument for a better choice - you have the wonderful freedom of choose based on availability.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX you can go one of two ways...
1) Medium with either flat or rise bar*, short stem, 45mm of spacer^ and pads pushed forward not to the max but darn close.
or
2) Large with flat or rise bar*, short stem, 10mm of spacer^ and pads nearly dead center.

*on the new bike there are only two options for the base bar: flat or rise (no drop version in 2019), and the base bar no longer effects the spacer height so flat or rise you still need 45mm of spacer with the M and 10mm of spacer with the large.

^on the new bike there's a mess of 5 and 10 mm spacers and they just get stacked up to achieve the height needed. No longer is there a need to purchase an aftermarket 60mm or deal with a 20 and some combo of 5s.

Now, what way would I lean on the 2019 bike....availability is a legit issue here so that's a factor and I think either size is great. I might prefer the large for one simple reason - it comes stock with the flat bar and I'd rather not have 45mm of elevation difference betwixt my aero extensions and my brake levers. I want those closer - as a triathlete, if I was 100% time trial then okay, maybe. Then again, I could get the M, pay a bit extra for the rise bar and have less gap but then I like the aesthetic of the flat bar so there's my own personal snobbery with which to contend as well. Oh, decisions!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Below are my metrics. The online calculator suggested a small frame but a local fitter suggested medium so I wanted another opinion.
Pad Y = 545mm
Pad X = 470mm



sfjab,

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX it can only be the small (the lowest the pads will go on the medium is 555 (and that's with the drop bar, if you go with the stock flat bar the lowest is 570). So, for you it's a size small with the flat bar, short stem and slammed (that is to say - no spacers between the aerbars and the base bar). You can mount the arm pads in the stock mounts and just move 'em back one or two holes of center to get your Pad X of 470.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX the lowest the size small goes is 565. Your Pad X is not problem: short stem, pads back slightly.

Ian

Thanks for the feedback... so this means the 2019 Speedmax SLX in size small would not fit well?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JFGOTRI] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks for the explanations. I did measure it and it's at 766mm if I take the lowest part of the saddle and about 770mm if I go straight following seat post tube from center of BB. I have 86-87cm inseam.

Also, I think I could easily have a longer Pad X reach. Probably would be more confortable with at least +10-15mm (would give 460 to 465mm).

Thanks for helping.

JF,

Based on all this I'm predicting Pad Y of 626 and Pad X of 468

On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways...
1) Size small with a flat bar, short stem and then the maximum spacers: one 60mm + one 20mm spacer, and pads in the stock mounts but back a couple of holes.
2) Size small with a rise bar, short stem, and a single 60mm spacer, and again pads in the stock mounts but back a skosh from center.
3) Size medium with a flat bar, short stem, the TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers.
4) Size medium with rise bar, short stem, the TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer.

Advice on those options: I don't like being painted into a corner (maximum spacers) so #1 is not a great option in my mind. #2 is very good: keeping in mind there are aftermarket purchases of the rise bar and the 60mm spacer. #3 is prolly my favorite: the only aftermarket purchase is the TSP (Team Switch Plate) needed to pull the arm pads back a bit more. #4 is good too but more money to speed on both rise bar and TSP.

As for the new 2019 Speedmax SLX there's only one way to go: size medium, short stem, TSP and 30mm of spacers - BOOM! that's a nice set up! Stay with the flat bar 'cuase 8 of 10 tifosi say it's sexier.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the explanations. I did measure it and it's at 766mm if I take the lowest part of the saddle and about 770mm if I go straight following seat post tube from center of BB. I have 86-87cm inseam.

Also, I think I could easily have a longer Pad X reach. Probably would be more confortable with at least +10-15mm (would give 460 to 465mm).

Thanks for helping.


JF,

Based on all this I'm predicting Pad Y of 626 and Pad X of 468

On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways...
1) Size small with a flat bar, short stem and then the maximum spacers: one 60mm + one 20mm spacer, and pads in the stock mounts but back a couple of holes.
2) Size small with a rise bar, short stem, and a single 60mm spacer, and again pads in the stock mounts but back a skosh from center.
3) Size medium with a flat bar, short stem, the TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers.
4) Size medium with rise bar, short stem, the TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer.

Advice on those options: I don't like being painted into a corner (maximum spacers) so #1 is not a great option in my mind. #2 is very good: keeping in mind there are aftermarket purchases of the rise bar and the 60mm spacer. #3 is prolly my favorite: the only aftermarket purchase is the TSP (Team Switch Plate) needed to pull the arm pads back a bit more. #4 is good too but more money to speed on both rise bar and TSP.

As for the new 2019 Speedmax SLX there's only one way to go: size medium, short stem, TSP and 30mm of spacers - BOOM! that's a nice set up! Stay with the flat bar 'cuase 8 of 10 tifosi say it's sexier.

Ian


Thank you so much Ian! You're making my day!!! Now I hope I will find one available... Will go for the 2019!

Anyways, enjoy this Holiday Season!!!

Best,

J.F.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks for the feedback... so this means the 2019 Speedmax SLX in size small would not fit well?


sfjab,

In the world of bike fit (my world of bike fit) I'm okay with seat height being 1mm off, maybe 2mm. I mean that could be the difference in training in a bike short (thick pad) and racing in a tri short (thin pad). And I'm okay with other stuff being 10-20mm off of perfect - like Pad X for example because elbows can hang off the back of the pad and elbows can be stuck in the middle of the pad and that can be a pretty big sway.

We're talking about your Pad Y of 545. This speaks to your arm pad elevation, also known as your "drop" - and man, you ride low. There are aero fanatics on this site who immediately think down is fast and up is slow. There are also some folks with real wind tunnel experience who know that lower is not always faster. Also, Slowman and myself and many others have found that as we get a touch older (Dan's in his early 60s, I just turned 50) our necks simply will not stand craning up high to have a safe field of vision up the road. To that end we raise our arm pads 5-10mm to alleviate the problem. All this is a primer to me saying the the lowest the new size small will go is a Pad Y of 565 and that's 20mm higher than your current desire to ride at Pad Y 545 (just as an aside lowest a Ventum will go is 595). So you ask would it "not fit well" - if you're Pad Y is really 545 that's 20mm lower then 565 and 20min in pad height is not "noise" to me, that seems like a bit too much, it wouldn't be optimal - it would be comfortable, but not optimal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Dec 18, 18 15:55
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Hang in there Louis - and remember, if there's any hesitation to anyone about the 650s just offer them two words: Emma Pooley

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Many thanks for your help Ian,
I'm getting there...
I sent emails to Felt ( my daughters's team sponsor) about their DA's availability in size 47. I also sent emails to Renn about 650c tubular disks.

Louis :-)
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [louisn] [ In reply to ]
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Hi!

I have a Speedmax CF i size L, i´m 190cm tall with a pretty long torso, seat height is around 81-82cm bbcenter-saddle. I need a little more reach. Can someone recommend a stem that would fit good and look good, 100mm-110mm
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Badass, Ian! Thanks so much. Now, decisions...decisions...

Team Zoot
2019 Sponsors: Canyon Bikes, Garmin, Smith Optics, Gatorade, Zealios Skin Care & Sun Protection, Speedfill Products, Base Performance, Ottolock, Theragun, Boco Gear, ORR Carbon Wheel Systems, Giddy Up Multisport
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [superdea] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I have a Speedmax CF i size L, i´m 190cm tall with a pretty long torso, seat height is around 81-82cm bbcenter-saddle. I need a little more reach. Can someone recommend a stem that would fit good and look good, 100mm-110mm

superdea,

I have to start at the bottom (just like when I call computer tech support for a issue and the first thing they as is "is the machine plugged in?") please hang with me for the progressive steps...
  1. Have you removed the arm pad cushion and looked at moving the arm cups forward a hole or two?
  2. Would you consider staying with the 90mm stem and switching to a different set of clip-on aerobars that could give you the 10-20mm of cockpit distance you seek?
  3. The steer tube on your bike is 1 1/8in and the base bar is 31.8 (all standard) so lots of stems will fit, but I'm with you, the aesthetic is important. One option is the Profile Design Aria Ultimate. I can tell that it's a hunk of material (455gms for 100mm) but if there's anything that I want to be bomb-proof on my tri bike let it be the stem first! Also, there's some nice cable routing options within the stem, there's even room for a j-box if you're running Di2.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
1 Yes i have done that but then the extensions will be a bit short

2 it would be easier to switch stem, i dont want to redo the cabling.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian

This is an awesome service!

I bought a M Speedmax CF SLX 9.0 here in the states. There are are no choices of stem, bar, extensions, crank length, etc here. You just have to take whatever build they have when one becomes available in your size.

I would appreciate help with finding my coordinates and then see if I have the right bike.

Thanks so much!

Kent
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ok, let me try this again!

BB to center of pad 460

BB to top of pad 620

thank you!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [anthonypat] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
BB to center of pad 460

BB to top of pad 620

thank you!

anthonypat,

Now we're talking!!!
On the 2018 Speedmax SLX you could go one of four ways.
1) Size small, flat bar, short stem, and the TSP (Team Switch Plate), a single 60mm spacer + three 5mm spacers. Without the TSP the shortest Pad X is 466. With the TSP you'd likely put the pads in the maximum forward position to have your 460 on the button.
2) Size small, rise bar, short stem, TSP, and now two 20mm spacers + three 5mm spacers.
3) Size medium, flat bar, short stem, TSP, and two 20mm spacers + two 5mm spacers*
4) Size medium, rise bar, short stem, TSP, and a single 20mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer*
*The Pad X on the medium with short stem and the TSP and the pads pulled back as far as they will go yields a 462. I'm good with 2mm- but this paints you in a corner, you cannot go any shorter in cockpit, you are maxed.

On the 2019 Speedmax SLX you could go one of two ways.
1) Size small, short stem, pads in the stock mounts and pulled back two holes - and you'd need the maximum of 55mm of spacers. You can do the flat bar or the rise bar it doesn't effect the Pad Y on this bike you've only got two issues with which to consider a) aesthetic and b) the gap between aero position and the brake levers down on the pursuit bars. With the flat bar that's gonna be ~6cm with the rise bar less but I don't yet know how much as I haven't had a chance to play with this bike yet.
2) Size medium, short stem, TSP and 25mm of spacer. The minimum Pad X with the TSP is 440 and the minimum in the stock mounts is 475 so you've got room to roam a bit if you need to later.
I really think the Medium is the way to go here.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you for all the great info Ian!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi,

I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

BR
Wil
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Interested to hear the answer on this... depends on your fit really

Wiltri wrote:
Hi,

I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

BR
Wil

Eric Reid
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I nead assistance to get the right slx size.

Size: 189cm
Inseam: 94cm
Arm lenght : 66,5cm
Torso lenght: 61,5cm
Shoulder width: 46cm

Should I get the M or the L frame (2018) ?
Thank you so much for your help.

Wil,

If you have your have a seat height (or some data from my list below) that you know and are confident about I'd like those numbers. See my hierarchy below as an explanation why....

There are, in life, good-better-best ways to get things done. You want toast? A toaster might be best. The ovens broiler works but has more risk, and you can get toast by holding a slice of bread in your hand while someone waves one of Elon Musk's Boring flame throwers over it a few times but it's clearly not the best way.

The best prescription comes from the numbers generated after spending time with an educated, experience fitter who owns a dynamic fit bike. They gotta check off all three of those boxes or we are better off moving on to the next in the list. The invaluable upside of this option is that you get the Pad Y and Pad X you need for purchase but you also get all your coordinates need for perfection.

Next is an existing tri bike that is going to be replaced but the position is good. If this is the case I can quickly and easily explain how to measure Pad Y and Pad X at home, off of that bike so that we can work from those numbers on the new bike purchase.

Next up is me, using your overall height (1890mm) and your seat height (790? 812?) to make an strong hypothesis of your Pad Y/X.

Next is you taking the numbers you've given and going into Canyon's PPS to prescribe the size.

So, if you've got a bike at home to reference let me know. If not send me your seat height and let me use that. Barring those. Head on over to Canyon's site for the PPS.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for your quick answer Ian.

I fully agree with what you said. It makes sense.

To tell you my story, I first used the Canyon's PPS that prescribed me a M size with short stem. Then I ordered the bike and received it two weeks ago.
I visited then a fitter that told me that he will fit myself on this M size bike but that my possition would be very agressive. The fitter was using two cameras that reproduces my avatar on a screen with all my body angles.

Back Home, I tested the bike alone on my Home trainer but found the position very agressive and had the feeling that the frame was too small. I saw as well the bike settings at their maximums (seatpost in a very rear position, aero bars out of their setting area very upfront and max spacer stack possible 50mm). The worst feeling was when I had the hands on the brake position. I had the impression to bend a lot my back.

That is why, I decided to send back the bike to canyon to change for a L.

My Seat height is 815mm. You will find attached photos of my settings on the M size.
For your information, I have planned my first IM this year.

Thank you again for your help.
BR
Wil
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thank you for your quick answer Ian.

I fully agree with what you said. It makes sense.

To tell you my story, I first used the Canyon's PPS that prescribed me a M size with short stem. Then I ordered the bike and received it two weeks ago.
I visited then a fitter that told me that he will fit myself on this M size bike but that my possition would be very agressive. The fitter was using two cameras that reproduces my avatar on a screen with all my body angles.

Back Home, I tested the bike alone on my Home trainer but found the position very agressive and had the feeling that the frame was too small. I saw as well the bike settings at their maximums (seatpost in a very rear position, aero bars out of their setting area very upfront and max spacer stack possible 50mm). The worst feeling was when I had the hands on the brake position. I had the impression to bend a lot my back.

That is why, I decided to send back the bike to canyon to change for a L.

My Seat height is 815mm. You will find attached photos of my settings on the M size.
For your information, I have planned my first IM this year.

Thank you again for your help.

Wil,

Thanks for include more information. Just like doing a consultation before I start of a fit in my studio, I find the more info I get in this thread the better prescription I can make.

I believe that I know what you mean when you say "aggressive". I think that means our arm pad elevation is rather low. What really stands out for me are these things:
1) you had a fit done but the fitter didn't tell you your optimal Pad Y and Pad X. That disappoints me. I feel that is a number that a customer deserves to get when they leave a fitting. That's a number that we (athletes, fitters) live by and, as seen in this exact situation, would remove the guess work. Motion capture with cameras is cool but achieving "Reasonable Fit Expectations" is better https://www.slowtwitch.com/Bike_Fit/Road_Bike_Fit/Reasonable_bike_fit_expectations_3595.html
2) "max spacer stack possible 50mm" - hold the phone! The max spacer stack for the 2018 bike is 80mm (a single 60mm spacer + a single 20mm spacer). To be clear the 60mm spacer is a piece that does NOT come stock on the bike and has to be ordered when needed (I think it's $20 USD). The max Pad Y of a 2018 size Medium is 645mm with the rise base bar and 625 with the flat bar.
3) Seat post in the very rear position - oh boy. This concerns me. I haven't studied the bike yet but that seems like a very shallow seat angle and I'm concerned.


I came up with a Pad Y of 666 and Pad X of 505 using a formula I trust.

You've been dealing with the 2018 Speedmax SLX so for that bike... Size Large, flat bar, short stem, TSP (Team Switch Plate) and a single 60mm spacer. That prescription requires the additional purchase of TSP and 60mm spacer. If you when with a Size Large, short stem RISE bar, TSP then you'd only need a single 20mm spacer and three 5mm spacers - then you'd have additional purchase of rise bar and TSP.

If I've said anything in here that has left you curious please get back to me and I'll explain. Also, if you'd like me to flesh out the 2019 bike let me know, I'm happy to do it.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Dec 27, 18 9:30
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Timely thread as I am looking at a CF as we speak. I believe that a small is what I am looking for but confirmation would be great.


Dave_o,

You are right the money with a small. It should have a short stem and pads nearly dead center to get your Pad X of 470. The best result for your Pad Y of 610 is a flat bar with a single 60mm spacer + a single 5mm spacer. You could get it done with the rise bar as well with two 20mm spacers + a single 5mm spacer - The bike comes with the flat bar and, one could argue the aesthetic of that superior.

Ian

Hi Ian, wondering if I could ask a follow up question to your suggestion. Can you confirm which model Speedmax this would be applicable to? I believe that this is the CF SLX rather than the CF and just want to confirm. The reason that I ask is that I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer. Either my measurements are way off or the suggestion that you provided were specific to the CF SLX.

Thanks again for the help!
Dave
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer

Dave,

Ugh! You're right. I blew it. My script for was for the SLX and not for the CF. It's funny because the SLX is a full blow super bike and it's actually become easier for me to hit the details on that bike than the CF which is sort of half way between a super bike and a mortal bike.

So you got to the Pad Y with just a 10mm spacer - great! To get your Pad X you've got essentially 2 items with which to play: stem (Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm) and then the different holes in the arm pads.

Were you able to get the Pad X perfect? I'm assuming your small came with a 70mm stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
I purchased a CF and got pretty close to pad y 610 with a single 10mm spacer

Dave,

Ugh! You're right. I blew it. My script for was for the SLX and not for the CF. It's funny because the SLX is a full blow super bike and it's actually become easier for me to hit the details on that bike than the CF which is sort of half way between a super bike and a mortal bike.

So you got to the Pad Y with just a 10mm spacer - great! To get your Pad X you've got essentially 2 items with which to play: stem (Canyon makes a 70, 80, and 90mm) and then the different holes in the arm pads.

Were you able to get the Pad X perfect? I'm assuming your small came with a 70mm stem.

Ian

Great, I feel much better about my measurements now! I have the single 10mm spacer and am somewhere between 605 and 610, so pretty close there. Right now I am at a pad x 460 with the 80mm stem that came with the small and close to center on the pads. Looks like I could rotate the pads and get a bit closer although I think that I am going to try 460 for awhile.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Great, I feel much better about my measurements now!

Dave,
Right on!!! Now it's on to consistent training, quality sleep, eating well and shredding your future bike splits!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian,

Again thank you for your time and the interesting advice.

So you confirm that I need a size L instead of a size M that was recommanded by Canyon's PPS. I understood that it is because with the M size it is not possible to achieve the Y 666mm that I need. Do you confirm ?
Consequently, I will follow your recommandations and go for a size L, flat bar (I prefer the estehetic), short stem, 60mm spacer and the TSP. Just to clarify, on my case the TSP is used to move back the pads, do you confirm? Could you precise as well how many milimeters back?

I didn't find any clear description of what has been changed between the 2018 and 2019 slx versions. I understood by reading previous posts that it was the cockpit and notably the pads position. Could you confirm and complete if I missed something else. For my fit, which version you think is the better ? I would be curious that you flesh out the 2019 version just to compare.

Wil
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Wiltri] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Ian,

Again thank you for your time and the interesting advice.

So you confirm that I need a size L instead of a size M that was recommanded by Canyon's PPS. I understood that it is because with the M size it is not possible to achieve the Y 666mm that I need. Do you confirm ?
Consequently, I will follow your recommandations and go for a size L, flat bar (I prefer the estehetic), short stem, 60mm spacer and the TSP. Just to clarify, on my case the TSP is used to move back the pads, do you confirm? Could you precise as well how many milimeters back?

I didn't find any clear description of what has been changed between the 2018 and 2019 slx versions. I understood by reading previous posts that it was the cockpit and notably the pads position. Could you confirm and complete if I missed something else. For my fit, which version you think is the better ? I would be curious that you flesh out the 2019 version just to compare.

Wil

Wil,

Sorry I wasn't more clear and keep coming back with more questions when you have 'em.

The 2018 size medium will in fact get to a Pad Y of 666 but you'd have to use the rise bar and a single 60mm spacer + two 5mm spacers. For the 2018 Speedmax SLX you, like many folks, can fit on two different sizes of the bike and you can fit on both a medium and a large.

Regarding pad placement, the TSP on the size large - it will be used to move the pads back farther than the stock mounts. If the Pad X I came up with is right then you'll use the TSP and then mount the arm pad in the back most holes of the pad (which pushed the pads as far forward as they will go on the TSP). I cannot be precise on the number of mm back for two reasons: 1) I don't know if you're a guy who likes having your elbows hang off the back of the pads a bit or if you like them in the center of the pads or somewhere in between 2) The Pad X I gave you is from a formula and it's not as precise as a real bike fit from a legit fitter.

Regarding the 2019 SLX - using the Pad Y of 666 and the Pad X of 505 - on this bike it has to be a size large (you cannot fit a Pad Y of 666 on a medium). So it's a size large, short stem and 35mm of pedestal. The differences between the 2018 and 2019 are pretty much all about the way the aerobars attach to the base bar: the 2019 uses just one pedestal riser while the 2018 bike used two towers. Also the 2019 has only the flat base bar and the rise bar - and switching from bar to bar has no effect on the amount of spacer required to achieve your desired Pad Y.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Now I am 100% clear.


Thanks again and have a nice end of year.

Wil
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Probably no chance I make a move from my Da, but if I did the SLX does speak to me. I'll probably be sticking with my current fit numbers for the foreseeable future, but would like some range to work with in the Y dimension in case I decide to make some changes down the line. Also, David and I spoke about this a while ago, but the front end has changed a bit since then. Not sure if the fit range has.

Pad Y 535-598
Pad X 487 BOP
Pad Width 165
Saddle Height 685

ETA: Forgot about saddle setback, and not sure if that is knowable, but I need/like to be -72mm

My YouTubes

Last edited by: LAI: Dec 30, 18 13:17
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Stack 691
Reach 534

I definitely want the ability to go lower as I loosen my hamstrings. This is based on a 165 crank.

Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [LAI] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Probably no chance I make a move from my Da, but if I did the SLX does speak to me. I'll probably be sticking with my current fit numbers for the foreseeable future, but would like some range to work with in the Y dimension in case I decide to make some changes down the line. Also, David and I spoke about this a while ago, but the front end has changed a bit since then. Not sure if the fit range has.

Pad Y 535-598
Pad X 487 BOP
Pad Width 165
Saddle Height 685

ETA: Forgot about saddle setback, and not sure if that is knowable, but I need/like to be -72mm

LAI,

I'm gonna tweak your back of Pad X @ 487 to center of Pad X @ 537 'cause that's the point to which Canyon measures. That Pad Y is a healthy 63mm range! This is gonna cause me to do some work and I'm willing! Here we go...

Firstly, regarding the 2018 bike...
To tell this story I need to split the huge Pad Y range into a couple of different versions with smaller ranges:

Lowest Version: the lowest a 2018 Speedmax goes is a Pad Y of 545. With a Pad Y of 545 or 550 you MUST be on a size small, flat bar, long stem, the TSP (Team Switch Plate) set up in the "make my cockpit longer position" and then pads moved forward nearly as far as they will go.If the lowest Pad Y of 545 is the goal then it's slammed (read: no spacers), and if you're gunning for a Pad Y of 550 then it's a single 5mm spacer.

Upper Options: if the Pad Y is 555 to 600 (and, again, this is 2018 we're talkin' here) then you can go one of 3 ways:
1) see "lowest version" above: small, long stem, TSP, pads fwd, then just more spacers to get on up to desired height.
2) size medium, drop bar (covering 555 (slammed), 560 (+5), 565(+10)), long stem, hold for news on the Pad X*
3) size medium, flat bar (covering 570 (slammed), keep adding bits 'til 600 which requires a single 20 and two 5mm spacers), long stem, hold for news on the Pad X*
*here's the news on the Pad X - if you stayed with the stock arm pad mounts you could get to 536 in Pad X (Typically I'm good with 1mm of wiggle room). If you absolutely had to have that mm or more then you'd need the TSP again to get beyond 536 in Pad X.

Now, let's talk 2019 Speedmax SLX for you....


Lowest Version: the lowest a 2019 Speedmax goes is a Pad Y of 565. With a Pad Y of 565 to 590 you MUST be on a size small, flat bar (or raised bar, but I'm guessing flat 'cause: a- aesthetics and b- it comes stock), long stem, the TSP for longer cockpit and then pads set at center. If the lowest Pad Y of 565 is the goal then it's slammed, and if you're gunning for a Pad Y of 590 then it's 25mm spacers, and you can hit every 5mm increment between.

Or.....: the entire range of the Medium is 595 to 650 so if you wanted a Pad Y 595 or 600 this will work and....flat bar, long stem, pads in stock mounts and nearly centered. 595 is slammed and 600 is, as you'd imagine, built with a single 5mm spacer.

Let me know if I created any questions in all that blather, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Probably no chance I make a move from my Da, but if I did the SLX does speak to me. I'll probably be sticking with my current fit numbers for the foreseeable future, but would like some range to work with in the Y dimension in case I decide to make some changes down the line. Also, David and I spoke about this a while ago, but the front end has changed a bit since then. Not sure if the fit range has.

Pad Y 535-598
Pad X 487 BOP
Pad Width 165
Saddle Height 685

ETA: Forgot about saddle setback, and not sure if that is knowable, but I need/like to be -72mm


LAI,

I'm gonna tweak your back of Pad X @ 487 to center of Pad X @ 537 'cause that's the point to which Canyon measures. That Pad Y is a healthy 63mm range! This is gonna cause me to do some work and I'm willing! Here we go...

Firstly, regarding the 2018 bike...
To tell this story I need to split the huge Pad Y range into a couple of different versions with smaller ranges:

Lowest Version: the lowest a 2018 Speedmax goes is a Pad Y of 545. With a Pad Y of 545 or 550 you MUST be on a size small, flat bar, long stem, the TSP (Team Switch Plate) set up in the "make my cockpit longer position" and then pads moved forward nearly as far as they will go.If the lowest Pad Y of 545 is the goal then it's slammed (read: no spacers), and if you're gunning for a Pad Y of 550 then it's a single 5mm spacer.

Upper Options: if the Pad Y is 555 to 600 (and, again, this is 2018 we're talkin' here) then you can go one of 3 ways:
1) see "lowest version" above: small, long stem, TSP, pads fwd, then just more spacers to get on up to desired height.


Now, let's talk 2019 Speedmax SLX for you....


Lowest Version: the lowest a 2019 Speedmax goes is a Pad Y of 565. With a Pad Y of 565 to 590 you MUST be on a size small, flat bar (or raised bar, but I'm guessing flat 'cause: a- aesthetics and b- it comes stock), long stem, the TSP for longer cockpit and then pads set at center. If the lowest Pad Y of 565 is the goal then it's slammed, and if you're gunning for a Pad Y of 590 then it's 25mm spacers, and you can hit every 5mm increment between.


Let me know if I created any questions in all that blather, Ian

Pad X COP is ~532, so we're close enough with 537. Also, that Y is a lot because it has worked throughout that range:

26mph @212w


25.4mph @193w


And the latest incarnation that feels fast and powerful


Those Pad Y's are 535mm, 560mm, and 598mm, respectively. Anyhow, it seems that to keep my options open I am looking at the Small version in either year, but to get close to my Y range spread I need to be on the 2018 Small, which doesn't seem to be available anymore. Do you know the narrowest one can place the pads? Probably not a huge concern as I can adjust width with Glen's cups if I keep my 15º arm tilt. Thank you for the exercise, seems like I have some options with Canyon.

My YouTubes

Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Stack 691
Reach 534

I definitely want the ability to go lower as I loosen my hamstrings. This is based on a 165 crank.

Thanks!

drseamus,

Good on you for the 165 crank. If, for some reason, your Canyon Speedmax arrives with a crank of a different length get back to me and I can a) help discuss the ramifications of changing and b) discuss on the proper changes to maintain seat height if you choose to stay on that different crank. That said....anybody who comes at me with confident Pad Y and Pad X as you have may already be knowledgeable in these areas :)

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX....I want you to go lower. I'm not 100% sure that speaks to looser hamstrings but the highest Pad Y the 2019 Speedmax will achieve is a 585 (only 6mm off your number). That bike will be a size Large, you can go with the flat bar or the rise bar, you'll need the short stem, 55mm of spacer, and the pads pretty much dead center. The spacers are incremental so you can simple remove them piece by piece as you want to drop lower from that max height of 55mm.

For the 2018 Speedmax SLX...you're a size Large, with the rise bar, short stem, a single 60mm spacer, and pads pushed forward one hold back from max. This results in a Pad Y of 690 (you can go as high as 710 on this bike) and a Pad X of 534.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
While we're waiting for the new Speedmax SLX to become available in the US.....I couldn't help but notice that in stock now is the

Canyon CF 8.0 LTD in XS, S, M, and L (in the "stealth" color-way) and M, and L in the blue. This is the Ui2 bike with 40mm deep front and 80mm deep rear race wheels (Zipp in this case). There's a women's version too in XS and M - each at $6,000

Canyon CF 8.0 SL in M and L in both the stealth and blue; this is the Ultegra mechanical group again with what looks like a 48ish front and 80ish rear race wheel (DT Swiss in this case) - at $3,999

Canyon CF 7.0 in S, M, and L in stealth, XS, M, and L in blue. This is the 105 build with standard wheels at $2,599

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Possible wrench in the plans which I should have mentioned from the get go but sometimes I'm not smart. The seat height is 70.5cm along the seat tube and the saddle is -5mm with an Adamo PN 1.1 saddle. Would I be able to get the seat that low on a large? The canyon was my first choice but I didn't think it would fit me so this is very helpful.

Jeremy
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian

Thanks for your input here. I've read this thread with interest.

I purchased a Medium Canyon Speedmax CF in the autumn and had it professionally fitted. In the past few weeks I've been experimenting with set-up and comfort on the trainer.

It's my first TT bike so obviously there's going to be a period of adjustment. The one issue I'm wrestling with is base bar width and elbow pad width. As currently set up (based upon the bike fit), the elbow pads obstruct the hands/arms when using the bullhorns. It's not impossible to ride with on the trainer but I wouldn't want to ride a long mountain climb nor tackle a fast descent on the bullhorns with what is an awkward and unnatural grip. I tend to seek out bike courses with lots of climbing as it suits my riding background.

It seems to me that I have 2 options i) move the elbow pads and extensions inboard thereby narrowing the grip or ii) keep the pad spacing as per the bike fit and go for a wider base bar.

Looking at many images of Speedmax set up (and TT in general) most seem to have plenty of room between the outside edge of the elbow pad and the bullhorns. Have you seen a similar problem with set-up and would there be any downside to simply moving the pads/extensions inboard to address the problem? I'm now experimenting with the latter to determine comfort in this narrower position.

Many thanks.

Paul
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [PaulEaston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
the elbow pads obstruct the hands/arms when using the bullhorns

Paul, I believe I get your meaning here. I think what's happening is that when your hands on the bull horns (near the brakes) the outer edge of the arm pad is pressing/rubbing against your forearm. I've seen this before, it's unacceptable, there are two ways to solve this:

1) Peel the arm pad off of its velcro base, take careful note of which holes are occupied by the two bolts, and move the arm pads closer to the stem (move them inward) one hole. Try the position on the bull horns again and see if you've solved the problem. If not move them in another hole.

2) Loosen the entire clip-on aerobar assembly from the base bar. There are two bolts that clamp the aerobar onto the base bar. And move each aerobar towards the stem slightly and re-tighten to spec's. This moves the arm pads in and the aerobar extensions as well.

You can even consider a combo of both of these actions since the arm pad holes are a fixed move the clamp can be controlled to a fraction of a millimeter.

Now, there are ramifications to both of these actions which you're already aware of - no matter which you chose you have just narrowed the arm pads. The concern here is that in the aero position, super narrow arm pads can have an effect on the back of your shoulder. I don't know how broad you are in the upper torso/shoulder area, but your pads are extremely wide right now if they are rubbing on your forearms when near the brakes so I assume the pads are at their maximum width. I'm willing to bet you can handle them a bit narrower. My guess is that your fitter was so focused on comfort while in aero that they failed to acknowledge the issue when your hands were at the braking/cornering/descending/climbing out of the saddle position.

So you're trying to balance these issues: moving the arm pad base away from forearms but not so far that you are uncomfortable when in the aero position.

Try the above first and if it doesn't work get back to me and we'll discuss other options.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian

Thanks for the insights. It's good to know that my current predicament isn't unique!

I took steps 1) and 2) at the weekend and have completed a couple of sessions on the turbo. It's a massive improvement when riding on the bullhorns - considerably more comfortable and a position I think I will be able to put power down when climbing outside. Although the longest session was only an hour I rode around 80% of that aero and didn't notice a major difference with the narrower pads when aero. I'll continue with the narrower set-up and then discuss when I follow-up with the fitter in the Spring.

As for the saddle, well that's another story! I'm hoping that it's just a case of getting used to a TT set-up and being perched on the nose v a regular road saddle. Would be interested to hear your thoughts on how well suited you think the Fizik Mistica is as a long course saddle. Right now I'm searching for a position which I can sustain without shuffling around every few mins.

One thing for sure is that the Speedmax feels a whole lot more comfortable in the aero position compared to the aero hack set-up I've been running on my road bike for the past 3 seasons. Can't wait to get outside and see what difference it makes (it may be some time as I live in the Highlands of Scotland and right now the garage is the safest place to be).

Thanks again. Paul
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [PaulEaston] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
It's a massive improvement....

Paul, Music to me ears!!! Thanks for your response!

Quote:
how well suited you think the Fizik Mistica is as a long course saddle.

Well, there are many who love that saddle, but if you don't then nothing else matters. This is a CRITICAL piece of equipment on your bike, and there's no other way to solve than to have a bunch of saddles put under you - while in your position - to see what feels best. Make some calls to shops, discuss your issue and find one that will either let you try a demo or sell you a saddle that you can exchange in a week or so 'til you find the best one. I want to suggest you stay in the tri saddle category so Cobb V-Flow, V-Flow+, V-Flow Max, JOF 55 (which seems similar to the Misitca but isn't), and the line of Adamo's too. Also, this probably goes without say but I gotta check the basics.....bike short, maybe some lube (A&D ointment or Chamois Butter or the like), no undies so there are no seams involved, etc.

Quote:
One thing for sure is that the Speedmax feels a whole lot more comfortable in the aero position compared to the aero hack set-up I've been running on my road bike for the past 3 seasons

Yeah, the triathlon position is real, and Canyon makes a bike so good you'd think it could win 4 Ironman World Championships in a row.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [trikent] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I would appreciate help with finding my coordinates and then see if I have the right bike.


Kent,

I'm scrolling back through this thread and I'm worried I dropped the ball on your post. I'm so sorry. Let's get after it.

I've done this before here, and I want to do it again if you can survive some possible redundancy... I want you - not just on the perfect size bike - but in the perfect position. To that end the best way to go is to have an educated, experienced fitter who has a dynamic fit bike to do a complete pre-fit on you. You'll walk away with both the prescription for purchase AND the coordinates for the final fit. I'm willing to research and make a recommendation in your area. If this appeals to you give me your city and I'll see what I can do. If a complete pre-fit is too much (travel, money, time. etc) then the next best option is this: if you own a tri bike now (one you're looking to replace with a Canyon), and you like the position for that old tri bike then I can walk you through a way to measure two pieces of that bike and we can use those numbers for your Canyon purchase. Baring that (so now we're down to the third best option), give me your overall height and your saddle height on current bike (road or tri) and let me go to work with those numbers. If that's not an option then head over to Canyon's PPS (Perfect Position Service) and plug in your body measurements and order from there.

Let me know, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
The seat height is 70.5cm along the seat tube and the saddle is -5mm with an Adamo PN 1.1 saddle. Would I be able to get the seat that low on a large?

Jeremy,

I had to connect with my engineer buddy in Germany for this and I finally got an answer. The lowest seat height on the Large is gonna be 728. For you to get to 705 it would have to be the Medium.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Can anyone refer me to a Canyon knowledgable fitter in the San Diego area? I went through the fit process with a local guy who knew next to nothing about Canyons. I'm fairly certain my cockpit setup needs much tweaking. I am also working on a smaller 165 or 170mm crankset (I'm 5'10") as my SLX came with 175's. Right now I cannot get enough degree of angle between my chest and thighs when in the aero bars to fully oxygenate.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I appreciate the follow-up Ian. Would a medium work for my stack/reach still? I've got my bonus burning a hole in my pocket and canyon is my first choice.

Jeremy
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [lutador72] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Can anyone refer me to a Canyon knowledgable fitter in the San Diego area?


Lutador72,

Reach out to JT Lyons at Moment Bicycles. He's a phenomenal bike fitter, and can help you make this bike an extension of your body. His shop is located at 2816 Historic Decatur Rd. in San Diego and his number is 619-523-2453.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:

Quote:
Can anyone refer me to a Canyon knowledgable fitter in the San Diego area?


Lutador72,

Reach out to JT Lyons at Moment Bicycles. He's a phenomenal bike fitter, and can help you make this bike an extension of your body. His shop is located at 2816 Historic Decatur Rd. in San Diego and his number is 619-523-2453.

Ian

Much appreciated, Ian! Moment Bicycles isn't too far from me. I'll look him him today!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks so much for your help!
Here is what I know about my current bike, a P3.
Saddle height is 790
Arm pad stack is 690
Arm pad reach is 465
Saddle to arm pad drop is 100
170 crank
I'm 6' tall, long legs and arms, short torso.
I did buy the med Canyon CF SLX. Changed the 175 crank to a 172.5.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks so much for your help!
Here is what I know about my current bike, a P3.
Saddle height is 790
Arm pad stack is 690
Arm pad reach is 465
Saddle to arm pad drop is 100
170 crank
I'm 6' tall, long legs and arms, short torso.
I did buy the med Canyon CF SLX. Changed the 175 crank to a 172.5.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [trikent] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks so much for your help!
Here is what I know about my current bike, a P3.
Saddle height is 790
Arm pad stack is 690
Arm pad reach is 465
Saddle to arm pad drop is 100
170 crank
I'm 6' tall, long legs and arms, short torso.
I did buy the med Canyon CF SLX. Changed the 175 crank to a 172.5.


trikent,

Mmmmm, good info! Let's say for a moment that the old bike had the perfect position and you wanted to re-create that with your new 2018 Speedmax SLX in size medium. You'd set the Speedmax up level in a trainer and put the saddle where it belongs: 790 in seat height and the appropriate set back. Positioning the saddle is the FIRST thing we do in terms of getting your fit situated. Then, for you to get your Pad Y at 690 and your Pad X at 465 you'd need:
1) Rise Bar*
2) Short Stem
3) TSP*
4) A single 60mm spacer* + a single 20mm spacer
5) Pad all the way back

*All these items are after-market. You need to purchase them from Canyon. AND....even if/when you do the Pad Y will not come out where you're old bike was at 690, the tallest the pads will get on the 2018 Speedmax SLX is 675 and that's with the Rise Bar and 60+20 spacers.

I've never seen you in this position but there's some evidence that suggests to me that you might be able to get away with a Pad Y that is lower than your current 690. You have 100mm of drop on the old bike which is ~12.5% of seat height and typically we see folks with a bit more. Also, you're using shorter cranks now, and that might provide some of the hip freedom necessary to be happy with lower pads. Two quick asides: 1) the tallest the pads will get with a flat base bar is 650 I just want you to have that so you know all options, and 2) for you to get a Pad Y of 690 on what is prolly a 56 a P3 with a stack of 540 ...hmm...I'm imagining 30+ mm of spacer under stem, a stem that's pitched up in the air at...at...+6deg? and then Pads that are 50mm above base bar. That's a bit more construction than I like to see. I'm glad you got a new bike.

As to the Pad X - the shortest the 2018 Medium will go is 462 - this requires short stem, TSP, and pads back all the way. I think each screw hole in the pads moves 'em 5mm so you can either go 462 or 467, your call.

Thanks for the info, I enjoy this process.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Really great you are putting all this work into helping everyone with this. I am currently riding on a Giant Propel which I have converted to a triathlon bike with clip on handlebars etc. Obviously not optimal so now looking into buying a Canyon Speedmax. See below my specs

Length: 182cm
Saddle hight: 810mm
Pad stack: 669mm
Pad reach: 440mm (I know this looks very short, but because the sadle of my propel can not get more to the front, it is so short. My saddle setback is 90mm, which is far from optimal for me. adding this to the reach and elimination the saddle setback would result in a pad reach of 530mm)
Saddle setback: 90mm
Drop saddle to bars: 100mm
Crank: 165mm

What would be the best options for me? Much appriciated!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Laurens4790] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian,

Really great you are putting all this work into helping everyone with this. I am currently riding on a Giant Propel which I have converted to a triathlon bike with clip on handlebars etc. Obviously not optimal so now looking into buying a Canyon Speedmax. See below my specs

Length: 182cm
Saddle hight: 810mm
Pad stack: 669mm
Pad reach: 440mm (I know this looks very short, but because the sadle of my propel can not get more to the front, it is so short. My saddle setback is 90mm, which is far from optimal for me. adding this to the reach and elimination the saddle setback would result in a pad reach of 530mm)
Saddle setback: 90mm
Drop saddle to bars: 100mm
Crank: 165mm

What would be the best options for me? Much appriciated!


Laurens4790,

You and I agree that this position isn't optimal. I'm deeply reluctant to prescribe a new bike purchase off of those numbers. I'd like you to fitted by a legit fitter. If you want to do that let me know the area in which you live and I'll recommend a fitter. If that's not an option then I'm gonna take your height of 1820mm and your saddle height of 810mm and come up with a Pad Y of 647 and a Pad X of 503. I'm more confident in that than your current 669/440. If my numbers are right then you'd have two options in the 2019 Speedmax SLX:

1) Size medium, either bar (flat or rise), 55mm of pedestal, short stem and pads dead center in the stock mounts.
--or--
2) Size large, either bar (flat or rise), 15mm of pedestal, short stem, and pads back almost all the way.

I'd recommend the large.

Let me know if you have more questions, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for your input!

I checked my Speedmax after making several adjustments over the last month and this is where it's at. (+/- 5mm)
Saddle height - 780
Pad Y - 680
Pad X - 460
Drop - 115

I do have the angle spacer kit under the pads. Is that the TSP you're referring to?
I also have the 60 + 20 spacers installed.
Pads are all the way back.

As for the riser bars, Canyon says they're the same height where the spacers mount. Only the grips are higher, which I believe I need since the drop from the pads to the grips is 145! I'm almost still in aero with my hands on the base bar grips!

I feel pretty good in this position. I have to make sure my hands are out to the end of the aerobars or my knees get very close to my elbows.

In your opinion, I at least have right size frame though?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [trikent] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks for your input!

I checked my Speedmax after making several adjustments over the last month and this is where it's at. (+/- 5mm)
Saddle height - 780
Pad Y - 680
Pad X - 460
Drop - 115

I do have the angle spacer kit under the pads. Is that the TSP you're referring to?
I also have the 60 + 20 spacers installed.
Pads are all the way back.

As for the riser bars, Canyon says they're the same height where the spacers mount. Only the grips are higher, which I believe I need since the drop from the pads to the grips is 145! I'm almost still in aero with my hands on the base bar grips!

I feel pretty good in this position. I have to make sure my hands are out to the end of the aerobars or my knees get very close to my elbows.

In your opinion, I at least have right size frame though?

trikent,

Let's take your last bit first: "In your opinion, I at least have the right size frame though?". That is a flat out YES. Frankly, 80% of the population can achieve their position on two different size frames from the same manufacturer so that's not all that challenging. What matters are the details so you are super comfy, creating lots of power, and not out in the wind too much. And we solve much of that with pad placement.

Quote:
I do have the angle spacer kit under the pads. Is that the TSP you're referring to?

No. The TSP (Team Switch Plate) is not the same as the angle spacer kit. In fact I'm to understand that the TSP actually limits the ability of the angle spacer kit. The TSP allows the pads to move fore & aft beyond what the stock mounts allow. I've stolen images from CanyonJay (here on ST). The first pick below are the stock armpad mounts:

This image below is the TSP bolted into those stock armpad mounts, and in this pic it's positioned to make the cockpit longer (stretch it out). When reversed it can make the cockpit shorter (tighter). Based on the numbers you gave my I was sure that you need the TSP to shorten the cockpit but you comented on your knees nearly hitting your elbows so a TSP to shorten the cockpit would only make that worse. More on that below...


Quote:
As for the riser bars, Canyon says they're the same height where the spacers mount.

Okay, hold on... if you're bike is the 2019 then this is true. If your bike is the 2018 then this is..what we call in the U.S. political scene a "falsehood", or, in the bike fit world "a damn lie". The 2018 bike has three base bars (drop, flat, rise) and the arm pads mount in such a way that the base bar does effect the pad height. The 2019 bike has only two bars (flat and rise) and switching between those bars has no effect on pad height. I'm pretty certain that you have a 2018 bike. I think only guys who have won 2 Ironman World Championships have those bikes right now and I don't Frodo & Lange are lurking on the ST Forum under the name trikent :)

Quote:
I feel pretty good in this position. I have to make sure my hands are out to the end of the aerobars or my knees get very close to my elbows.

Let's discuss this for a sec... This makes me suspicious of some noise in our process somewhere: This sounds to me like you could go with a bit more length in the cockpit and that can probably happen with ease by unbolting the arm pads and moving them out a hole or two.

Get back to me with more Qs if you have 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [hodgey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hodgey wrote:
Hey Ian,

as with all so far, appreciate what you are doing here.

My fit co-ordinates are:

Arm pad reach: 428mm (to back of pad)
Arm pad stack: 641mm (to top of pad)
Saddle height: 728mm (165mm cranks)

Saddle set back: -50mm (for 76 degrees, may come forward)

Arm pad width: 237mm

First position back after long break - expect position will get progressively lower through time so some scope for lower (and probably longer) would be appreciated.

Think I am a medium but not sure if my reach is going to be an issue on a medium. I am also looking at CF rather than CF SLX


Thanks

Hey Ian, I am bumping this as it may have been overlooked given you have had numerous requests. Thanks again for your help.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [hodgey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seat height. 700
Stack. 605
Reach. 440 back of pad.
Pad width. 185 center to center of pad
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Climb11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hi, i did a bike fit and i have quite detailed information in a PDF format, is there an email i can send the information to you ?

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian. I agree with you, and probably first do a proper fit.

Refering to your advice, I am looking to buy a CF (not a SLX). Would this change your recomendation for the bike size? Thanks!

Laurens
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [garg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
hi, i did a bike fit and i have quite detailed information in a PDF format, is there an email i can send the information to you ?

Thanks

garg,

PM Sent.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [hodgey] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian,

as with all so far, appreciate what you are doing here.

My fit co-ordinates are:

Arm pad reach: 428mm (to back of pad)
Arm pad stack: 641mm (to top of pad)
Saddle height: 728mm (165mm cranks)

Saddle set back: -50mm (for 76 degrees, may come forward)

Arm pad width: 237mm

First position back after long break - expect position will get progressively lower through time so some scope for lower (and probably longer) would be appreciated.

Think I am a medium but not sure if my reach is going to be an issue on a medium. I am also looking at CF rather than CF SLX

Thanks

hodgey, thanks for the bump, sorry I missed it.

I'm using Pad Y of 641 and Pad X of 478 (adding 50mm to get to center of pad for Canyon's measurments) For the 2019 Speedmax SLX you could go with a large but you're right to go with a medium here are the details and "the why" of that...

A large would have you using the short stem and the TSP (to pull the pads back even more than the stock mounts allow) and then you'd be back almost to the max on the arm pads (max is 471 - so let's call it one hold forward of max). That's not the end of the world because, as you say, you're probably going forward in the future and there's a ton of movement left for you in that direction. Here's my reservation on the large: to get down to 641 you'd only use 10mm of spacer so if you're going lower in the future you have only 10mm to drop and then you're at the bottom.

A medium puts you in a sweeter spot - short stem, no TSP so you're in the stock mounts, pads back one hole forward of max and 45mm of arm pad pedestal. The spacers are 5mm each so can just pluck 'em progressively as needed. The short stem will allow you to go out to 529 so that gives you ~50mm of future length in the cockpit with this stem and then more if you needed the longer one.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [garg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hi, i did a bike fit and i have quite detailed information in a PDF format, is there an email i can send the information to you ?
Quote:

garg,

I got your fit details. The fit did measure and record your Pad Y at 704mm (they are calling it "arm pad stack BB"), and your Pad X of 461mm (they are calling it "arm pad reach BB at 411mm" measured to the back of the pad, I need it to go to the middle to have a number I can use). If those numbers you sent me are right - and I studied your fit report, checked the images, I think they measured it out properly. They're might be a couple of issues of accuracy but I can say this - you left there in a better position than the one you walked in with - and that's good! The problem is this - your current arm pad elevation is 30mm (30mm below seat height). That's a very modest "drop". I would expect you to be able to ride 80mm to 100m (11-15% of saddle height). I bet you already suspect this because you recognize all of that construction that currently exists under your arm pads (spacers under the stem, the stem it pointing upward, and all of those pedestals under the aerobars).

If this really is your ultimate position then I'm afraid the 2019 Speedmax SLX won't fit you. You'd have to ride a medium to achieve the Pad X of 461 (shortest the large gets to is 471). The highest the pads will go on a medium is 650 and this fit report says you need a Pad Y of 704. Now, don't be dismayed. I have several resolutions for this...

1) Your current crank length of 170 is too long for you. I think you should probably be riding 155s. You'll need to get a crank from Cobb or Rotor or some such because the big boys (Shimano, SRAM, etc) don't make cranks that short. If you committed to that length crank then your Pad Y could be dramatically lower and you could then ride a 2019 Canyon Speedmax, size medium, rise bar, short stem, TSP and 55mm of arm pad pedestal and pads mounted center hole. The end result would be a arm pad drop of 80mm - I think you could come to love that but only with shorter cranks.

2) You could obtain a 2018 Canyon Speedmax SLX size medium, rise bar, short stem, TSP, a single 60mm + a single 20mm spacer and pads back all the way. The cockpit distance would be spot on for what you ride now. The arm pad drop would be 55mm. With this set up you could get away with 165 cranks (which Shimano makes) but, again I think you should be riding 155 or, at the most, 160s.

This is a lot of speculation on my behalf. I haven't done a consult with you I didn't ask about goals, injury history, confidence, etc. I want to be able to say that an in-person fit is soooo much better than what the best can do on a forum but sadly, that's always true.

Here's my final thought on the matter - some tri bikes are made to be long and low. Some tri bikes are made to be short and tall. You need a short and tallish bike. Your current bike is not one of those - it was forced into a position to work for you. The Speedmax is not one of those - but it too can be put into a position to work for you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok, I do have the TSP installed as well, positioned to make the reach shorter. So I have tons of room get longer if I need it.

I will probably go ahead and get the rise bars since my base bar and brakes are like 5" below the pads. I feel like I'm still in aero! Hopefully the rise bar is taller for the pad mounts like you say. What's another $279 at this point?!

Thanks again!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Pad Reach: 435mm
Pad Stack: 620mm

Looking at the Speedmax CF.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian, wow that is such a detailed reply and i truly appreciate it. My fit was done a year ago when i was still relatively new to the sport. I have been training for a year and my aim is to go lower.

Would the CF be a better option than the SLX in this case since the bars are not integrated and hence more adjustable allowing me to have a higher stack?

Are sizings the same?

Lastly, if i were to heed your suggestions to get an SLX, it would be a clear size medium right, and not in between sizes with a small
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks in advance for your help! Looking for size and adjustment recommendations for the Speedmax CF.

Here is the data from my recent fit:

Arm pad reach: 449mm
Arm pad stack: 615mm

Saddle height: 731mm
Saddle setback: -36mm

Arm pad width: 243mm

Crank length: 170mm
Last edited by: rootscreative: Jan 13, 19 7:20
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Ian!

Looking for the CF and these are some measurements I can provide:
Height: 190cm
Inseam: 95.3cm
Sternal height: 157.3cm
Arm length: 64cm

According to a tri bike fit with aerobars on my road bike (although resulting in a non aggressive position imo)
Seat height: 84.2cm
Saddle position: 16.1cm
Armpad reach (according to the diagram it's from the middle of the saddle to the middle of the armpads): 60cm
Armpad drop (from top of the saddle to top of the armpads): 11.8cm

According to the PPS on Canyon site I'm clearly on L. Although it gives me a warning about my measurements since my inseam is very high (long legs, which is true) and it only seems to change with height changes which is not trustworthy I guess.
Since I'm looking to ride the bike in a rather aggressive position to make the purchase worthwile (progressively after getting accustomed to it for a while) would the XL also be a good fit to get more reach to get closer to the SLX bike?

Thank you so much!
Last edited by: cmart: Jan 13, 19 3:12
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [garg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian, wow that is such a detailed reply and i truly appreciate it. My fit was done a year ago when i was still relatively new to the sport. I have been training for a year and my aim is to go lower.

Would the CF be a better option than the SLX in this case since the bars are not integrated and hence more adjustable allowing me to have a higher stack?

Are sizings the same?

Lastly, if i were to heed your suggestions to get an SLX, it would be a clear size medium right, and not in between sizes with a small

garg,

You are a medium for sure on the SLX. The CF and SLX are not same in terms of fit. The CF would fit you better than the SLX and if you went with the CF it too would be a medium, with a 70mm stem and all the spacers the result would be a Pad Y of 692 (compared to the SLX at 650)

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [st001rtg] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Pad Reach: 435mm
Pad Stack: 620mm

Looking at the Speedmax CF.

st001rtg,

It's gonna be an XS in the CF, it comes with a 70mm stem and that'll work for you. You'll need to bring the pads back one hole from max to get 435. As to the Pad Y - the max on the XS is 640 so you'll be well within it's capabilities.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Laurens4790] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks Ian. I agree with you, and probably first do a proper fit.

Refering to your advice, I am looking to buy a CF (not a SLX). Would this change your recomendation for the bike size? Thanks!

Laurens4790,

Ok good, thanks for the clarification. I'm still going off of the predicted Pad Y of 647 and Pad X of 503. When I apply those numbers to the CF the prescription is...size large. That bike comes with a 90mm stem and you can mount the pads dead center. To get the 647 use just one 20mm spacer under the stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Hey Ian!
Looking for the CF and these are some measurements I can provide:
Height: 190cm , Seat height: 84.2cm, long legs.
Thank you so much!

cmart,

Firstly, thanks for surviving my rant on that other thread.

A real fit by an educated, experienced fitter who uses a dynamic fit bike is the only way to be sure of your Pad Y and Pad X. If a pre-fit's not gonna happen then we look to other options. Canyon's PPS is good. I'm using a formula that I think is a bit better.
I think your Pad Y 674 and your Pad X is 502.

The Pad Y range on a CF size large is 627-714 - your 674 falls very nicely in there. The Pad X range on the CF size large is 488-513 and your 502 gives you 11mm of room to go longer.

I want you to have all the information on your options so you can make the best decision. so....

The Pad Y range on a CF size XL is 654-741 - your 674 still works, you've got 20mm to go down (and then another ~45mm if you had to with a customized under-mount). The Pad X range on the CF size XL is 508-533 - your 502 means that the XL, as it comes with the 90mm stem, is too long by 6mm even with the pads all the way back. You could order an 80mm stem and solve this, or, maybe a 6mm longer cockpit is acceptable.

Get back to me here if you have more questions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rootscreative] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Thanks in advance for your help! Looking for size and adjustment recommendations for the Speedmax CF.
Here is the data from my recent fit:
Arm pad reach: 449mm
Arm pad stack: 615mm


rootscreative,

The XS in the CF is going to fit you well. All the stock bits will nail it and pretty much in the middle ranges. The 70mm stem that comes stock is perfect for your numbers. You'll only have 20mm of spacer under the stem. You'll be right in the middle of the arm mount holes too.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
No worries. That's exactly what brings me to the CF instead of the SLX. Because I think that all the integration are (very) marginal gains that most probably won't matter as long as I'm not fighting for seconds in Kona ;) And since the CF seems to be quite adjustable I'm pretty confident in giving it a try.

Thanks so much for the recommendations! With these options the XL might even make more sense because it's possible to go down with the stem up to 70mm giving me a nice range. With the L I'm pretty much maxed out from start.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

Jeremy,

Okay, Pad Y of 691, Pad X of 534. We know we're on a Medium to make the seat height of 705mm.

For the 2019 SLX in a Medium the Pad X of 534 is no problem. It would be the long stem and pads mounted in the stock mounts one hole hole shy of the maximum rearward position. The problem is the Pad Y of 691. The highest the 2019 SLX medium goes is 650 - and 40mm is a sizeable distance. Even the 2018 SLX maxed out at 675. This bike is longish and low. And the CF would be an issue too.

Now I need to check with you. Where did your Pad Y and Pad X - where'd those numbers come from? Can I see a pick of you, in profile in that position?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I got fit by a local guy on a guru and I felt very comfortable in the fit but know I'll need to go lower. The numbers I walked out the door with are not the pad x/y numbers and I can take a picture when I'm home. I called him later and got the pad x/y numbers over the phone so it's quite possible they were calculated wrong. My current bike isn't set up in the new fit though so I can't take a picture of me on the bike.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian -

Thanks so much for the detailed feedback. Is there a greater range on the 2019 Speedmax 8.0? That is, can the lower end bike accommodate the Pad Y of 565?

Cheers!




ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Thanks for the feedback... so this means the 2019 Speedmax SLX in size small would not fit well?


sfjab,

In the world of bike fit (my world of bike fit) I'm okay with seat height being 1mm off, maybe 2mm. I mean that could be the difference in training in a bike short (thick pad) and racing in a tri short (thin pad). And I'm okay with other stuff being 10-20mm off of perfect - like Pad X for example because elbows can hang off the back of the pad and elbows can be stuck in the middle of the pad and that can be a pretty big sway.

We're talking about your Pad Y of 545. This speaks to your arm pad elevation, also known as your "drop" - and man, you ride low. There are aero fanatics on this site who immediately think down is fast and up is slow. There are also some folks with real wind tunnel experience who know that lower is not always faster. Also, Slowman and myself and many others have found that as we get a touch older (Dan's in his early 60s, I just turned 50) our necks simply will not stand craning up high to have a safe field of vision up the road. To that end we raise our arm pads 5-10mm to alleviate the problem. All this is a primer to me saying the the lowest the new size small will go is a Pad Y of 565 and that's 20mm higher than your current desire to ride at Pad Y 545 (just as an aside lowest a Ventum will go is 595). So you ask would it "not fit well" - if you're Pad Y is really 545 that's 20mm lower then 565 and 20min in pad height is not "noise" to me, that seems like a bit too much, it wouldn't be optimal - it would be comfortable, but not optimal.

Ian
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Seat height. 700
Stack. 605
Reach. 440 back of pad.
Pad width. 185 center to center of pad

If you can’t use back of pad. Can you give me the pad messurement so i can provide you the correct numbers.

Looking at the slx

Thank you for all the information here
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
drseamus,

I've got your seat height at 705mm. How tall are you? Let me go to work with this formula and let's see how that compares to what your fitter gave you over the phone.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Looking for buying a Speedmax CF but don’t know if a large or xl would fit best.

Some measurements from a retül report on a P3 58 cm:

Height on me: 189 cm
Saddle height: 85 cm
Pad Y: 70 cm maximum (would like to go lower)
Pad X: 49 cm minimum (would like to go further forward)

Thanks
Patrik
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Thanks so much for the detailed feedback. Is there a greater range on the 2019 Speedmax 8.0? That is, can the lower end bike accommodate the Pad Y of 565?

Sfjab,
The frame geometry and pad placement (range) is the same for all the Speedmax SLX bikes. The difference between the SLX 9.0 and the SLX 8.0 is the build, the components. The 9.0 comes with Di2 and the 8.0 comes with Ui2*

Ian

*Ui2 is the slang some of us have taken to use Ultegra Di2 to differentiate it from Dura Ace Di2.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Climb11] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Seat height. 700
Stack. 605
Reach. 440 back of pad.
Pad width. 185 center to center of pad
If you can’t use back of pad. Can you give me the pad messurement so i can provide you the correct numbers.
Looking at the slx
Thank you for all the information here


Climb11,

I'm going to use Pad Y of 605 and Pad X of 490 (that's different from Stack and Reach but I'm sure that's what you mean). The pad is roughly 100mm in length so I'm taking 50mm, adding it to the number you provided to approximate the center of the pad.

For the 2019 SLX you could go one of two ways...

A size small, either bar (flat or rise), short stem, pads centered on the stock mounting holes, and 40mm of spacer under the aerobars.
---or---
A size medium, either bar, short stem pads back two holes (I believe) in the stock mounting holes, and 10mm of spacer under the bars.

Both of these positions are really good. It would be hard to make an argument for one over the other. It's nice 'cause it gives you options on availability (and that can be a factor).

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks.

I was referring to the CF versus the CF SLX... the CF is the lower end range of bikes. Is the geometry identical?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
I was referring to the CF versus the CF SLX.

sfjab,

Oh this a great option for you!!! With a Pad Y of 545 and a Pad X of 470 you could get on a Speedmax CF size xs and that bike's Pad Y goes down to 553 (and Pad X down to 430). If you were in my studio there are a couple of things we could discuss to make the CF perfect and crazy sexy.

1) Switch the aerobars to another model. I think a Profile-Design SubSonic might get you down to your precise 545 Pad Y.
2) Switch out the whole front end to a mod-superbike front end either from Profile-Design (Aeria Ultimate) or Tri Rig

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks! Where is your studio?

I just decided to set up an appointment at Ero Sports in LA next week to get some thoughts on fit and bike purchase options before pulling the trigger on the Canyon.

Thanks for your work on this!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Patrik R] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian,
Looking for buying a Speedmax CF but don’t know if a large or xl would fit best.
Some measurements from a retül report on a P3 58 cm:
Height on me: 189 cm
Saddle height: 85 cm
Pad Y: 70 cm maximum (would like to go lower)
Pad X: 49 cm minimum (would like to go further forward)

Patrik R,

Okay, this is a tough call. I'm going to give you the numbers that matter and then you decide how much longer you want to go.

The Pad Y on both the L and XL will hit the 700 and give you room to move lower: the Large bottoms out at 625 and the XL at 654.
The Pad X is the question you'll need to wrestle with... If you get the Large you can start at 490 but the longest it'll go is 513. That's 23mm longer - which could be perceived as a lot or a little depending on how much you think you'll stretch out. The XL STARTS at 508 so you'll have to start 18mm longer than you're 490 now but you can get crazy long on the bike (out to 533).

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian

Me details below. Which size would be best for me. Would prefer to be stretched out a little more. I feel my elbows are a bit tucked in (back) like this.

This would be for a speedmax CF SLX 9.0

Saddle height over BB 797mm
Saddle setback 8mm
Drop from saddle to bars 181mm
Reach from saddle to bars 799mm

SX=133mm
SY=736mm
HY=555mm
HX=520mm

Extension length 250mm
Pad reach 500mm
Pad stack 605mm
Pad height 50mm
Pad offset 20

Let me know if you need any more info.

Phil
Last edited by: Phil Hodson: Jan 16, 19 6:41
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:

Quote:
Hey Ian!
Looking for the CF and these are some measurements I can provide:
Height: 190cm , Seat height: 84.2cm, long legs.
Thank you so much!


cmart,

Firstly, thanks for surviving my rant on that other thread.

A real fit by an educated, experienced fitter who uses a dynamic fit bike is the only way to be sure of your Pad Y and Pad X. If a pre-fit's not gonna happen then we look to other options. Canyon's PPS is good. I'm using a formula that I think is a bit better.
I think your Pad Y 674 and your Pad X is 502.

The Pad Y range on a CF size large is 627-714 - your 674 falls very nicely in there. The Pad X range on the CF size large is 488-513 and your 502 gives you 11mm of room to go longer.

I want you to have all the information on your options so you can make the best decision. so....

The Pad Y range on a CF size XL is 654-741 - your 674 still works, you've got 20mm to go down (and then another ~45mm if you had to with a customized under-mount). The Pad X range on the CF size XL is 508-533 - your 502 means that the XL, as it comes with the 90mm stem, is too long by 6mm even with the pads all the way back. You could order an 80mm stem and solve this, or, maybe a 6mm longer cockpit is acceptable.

Get back to me here if you have more questions.

Ian


Hey Ian,

sorry for the followup but I'm interested in what you think the better choice would be. Thinking about getting the XL and additionally including a 70mm stem which would give me a nice range for the reach with a lot of potential to go longer compared to 11mm on the L (according to your formula)

Thanks so much!
Last edited by: cmart: Jan 16, 19 8:49
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [sfjab] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks! Where is your studio?

sfjab,

I'm on the westside of Los Angeles wedged between Santa Monica and Malibu. You're headed to see Jim Manton in Carson. He's excellent. Bring all your cycling gear and be ready and willing to work a bit on the bike while you're there. You'll leave with all of your fit coordinates AND Pad Y/Pad X for bike purchase and a precise prescription for a Canyon Speedmax.

After your fit get back to us here ono this thread and tell us about your experience. I'll be eager to hear what the outcome is.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Phil Hodson] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian

Me details below. Which size would be best for me. Would prefer to be stretched out a little more. I feel my elbows are a bit tucked in (back) like this.
This would be for a speedmax CF SLX 9.0
Pad reach 500mm
Pad stack 605mm

Phil,

This is good info. I'm primarily gonna use Pad Y 605 and Pad X 500 from your details. From those numbers we (modern fitters) can prescribe any and all super bikes. The rest of the stuff while critical isn't something anybody should be getting into via text, I'd want that to happen in person. Judging from these numbers you've been fit, and while you know you want to make a small tweak you're probably pretty happy with many of the coordinates.

On the 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX you could go one of two ways...

A size small with either bar (flat or rise), short stem, 40mm of spacer under the aerobars, and pads pushed forward 1 hole from max in the stock mounts.
--or---
A size medium with either bar, short stem, 10mm of spacer under the extensions, and pads dead center in the stock mounts.

I would say get the medium - mainly because you want to stretch out a bit more and the max Pad X on the small with the short stem is 507 and you may want to extend the cockpit more than 7mm. If there was an availability issue and you had to get the small that would still work because you can put on the long stem and it will give you reach all the way out to 527 (or more if you used the TSP). You're at 181mm of drop which is huge so I'm worried that the medium bottoms out at 595. Well, see, there you go - I ended up using more than just your Pad Y & X. Knowledge is power.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian,

sorry for the followup but I'm interested in what you think the better choice would be. Thinking about getting the XL and additionally including a 70mm stem which would give me a nice range for the reach with a lot of potential to go longer compared to 11mm on the L (according to your formula)

Thanks so much!

cmart,

I welcome this follow up and any more that arise. My raison d'etre is fit and I want you to be comfortable, powerful, and slippery on this bike so let's keep after that goal.

I went back and reread your original post. I looked at all the details you gave and all the data I have. I think you should get the XL but do not order the 80mm stem right away. Hold off on that. When it arrives pull the pad cushion off (velcro) and mount the hard arm-rest shells as far back as they go (this is Profile-Design aerobar, super easy to work on). That will give you a Pad X of 508 to the center. The pads are nearly 100mm across so you may very well find yourself loving where your elbow sits on the pad or just off the trailing edge of the pad. By the way, Mat Steinmetz (a great fitter based in Boulder and designer/owner of 51 Speedshop aerobars) and I both teach fitters for the Guru Academy. He's adamant about elbows being on the pad, not hanging of the pad - on that damn pad! He'll do 7 minutes of material about it in class. Me, I'm okay with elbow being in the center of the pad, near the back, hanging slightly off the back - where ever if feels best to the rider.

One more thing on this - none of this fit will work, NONE of it, unless you love the saddle. This bike will come with a Fizik Mistica on it and it's a great saddle, millions love it. If you're not one of those millions then you have to get another saddle. The only way all this discussion about the Pad X will work is if your saddle is in the right place (seat height and set back) AND you are sitting on that saddle where it's supposed to be ridden (the front 1/2). If you are pushing your bum back to the back of that saddle to find comfort then the fit will not work. Just be aware of that.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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You are seriously awesome! You should link to a donation page in your signature, would love to buy you a coffee for your tips ;)

Okay, I'm gonna go with the XL and will update you on the results. I'm planing on doing a fitting after getting used to the bike a little bit in order to report first experiences or problems to the fitter. Will take some time though cause unfortunately the Stealth Black XL is exactly the one that is not in stock.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian

Wow thanks for the quick and detailed reply! Surprising though I never ever thought I would be on a small bike a medium at a push! I’m on a 56 P5 and feel that’s small. Maybe that’s me though. Im 6’2” and have never been a small in anything! But what fits fits they say. I think the medium would be a better choice.

What do the extension spacers do to the hydration at the front? Is it like a (Lange/Sanders eat al) mono post style or wider?

It’s interesting what you say in a later post with regards to yours and Matt’s teaching. I seem to feel more comfortable with my elbows slightly hanging over the pads. Is there any sound reasoning behind his want to get them on the pads?

Thanks again for your help. Now all I have to do is find one and smuggle it across to the frozen north!

Phil
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Phil Hodson] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian

Wow thanks for the quick and detailed reply! Surprising though I never ever thought I would be on a small bike a medium at a push! I’m on a 56 P5 and feel that’s small. Maybe that’s me though. Im 6’2” and have never been a small in anything! But what fits fits they say. I think the medium would be a better choice.

What do the extension spacers do to the hydration at the front? Is it like a (Lange/Sanders eat al) mono post style or wider?

It’s interesting what you say in a later post with regards to yours and Matt’s teaching. I seem to feel more comfortable with my elbows slightly hanging over the pads. Is there any sound reasoning behind his want to get them on the pads?

Thanks again for your help.

Phil,

The thing that puts you on a smaller bike than you'd think is your drop. You ride super low. I'm 6'1" and leggy. Slowman is our height and leggy and we all have a pretty similar Pad X (you and me at 500, Dan at 505) but i'm at 636 in Pad Y, he's at 640 in Pad Y and you're all the way down at 605. A large bottoms out at 630.

The whole concept of going from the two separate, arm pad pedistals (2018 and earlier) to the monospacer is that the who systems get's lined up: hydration in front of spacers in front of bento box. I haven't spent enough quality time with this bike, all I got was ~15min in Kona and I couldn't put any tools to it or inspect it fully.

I think the reason Mat likes the elbows on the pads more is that he really likes a higher hands position - sort of towards the praying mantis thing. And that works better with elbows on the pad.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
You are seriously awesome!

cmart,

You're welcome. Happy I could help.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian

This is very interesting and surprising but I trust your numbers. Like I said now all I need to do is get my hands on one and if possible try one out. I feel a trip coming on!

To be honest the mono spacer really made this bike truly stunning to me. Especially the way it integrates everything.

Your help has been much appreciated.

Regards

Phil
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Phil Hodson] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks Ian

Your help has been much appreciated.

Phil,

You're welcome. Keep me posted here as you move forward with the purchase. I'm eager to hear how it goes.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian - Wondering how I can get the right measurements to you if I no longer have my physical bike, but I do have the retul fit report handy.

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hey Ian - Wondering how I can get the right measurements to you if I no longer have my physical bike, but I do have the retul fit report handy.

ChasingPB,

I've sent you a PM with my email address. Send me your fit report and then I'll respond here on this thread with my thoughts.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I'm about 5'7". Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [drseamus] [ In reply to ]
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Jeremy,

I just went back through our communications on this thread to make sure I had all the info fresh on my brain. I've dropped in some quotes just to make sure there are no typos hidden in here. You started with a "stack" of 691 and and a "reach" of 534 (165 crank) and the idea of... "I want to go lower in the future".

My response to that was...
Quote:
For the 2019 Speedmax SLX.........That bike will be a size Large.....etc. etc..

Then you can back with more info - seat height of 705, and then we knew it had to be a size medium.

Something seemed off to me and I inquired and you responded
Quote:
The numbers I walked out the door with are not the pad x/y numbers

Now, we're going forward with a formula based off your overall height and your saddle height. So, with a seat height of 705mm and an overall height of 1702mm (5'7") I'd predict your Pad Y at 596 and your Pad X at 463.

If that prediction is correct (more on that below) then you have two ways to go...

2019 Speedmax SLX size M with a short stem, the TSP to pull pads a bit more, the flat bar, and....wait for it....slammed, which is to say no spacers under the aerobars.
---or---
2019 Speedmax SLX size S with a short stem, flat bar, pads back just a bit from the middle and in the stock mount holes (so, no TSP), and 30mm of aerobar pedestal.

Let's stop right here for one second. I'm slightly nervous because of where we started. We started with "stack of 691 and reach of 534". The fit business has this bit of confusion over these terms Stack 'n Reach vs. Pad Y 'n Pad X. Two very different things: Stack/Reach being the measurement to the top of the frame's head tube (used by fitters to size a mortal bike), and Pad Y/Pad X being the measurement to the arm pads (used by fitters to prescribe a super bike). What happens on this thread, and elsewhere in life, is that folks come forward saying "stack and reach" but really mean Pad Y/Pad X. This is so common that I took your first post to mean Pad Y/X. If you're telling me - "ignore that set of 691/534 numbers. Let's go with your prescription off the overall height/seat height to prescribe Pad Y/Pad X" then great. I'm confident! For your height, the prescription of 596/463 falls into an orthodox position - meaning that's where the vast majority of folks your height with your seat height ride. Just like if we both go in to get a vasectomy together, the doc's not going to cut into your scrotum and my abdomen. Not unless I was deformed at birth and somehow my vas deference is up around my small intestine. If I'm pretty normal and you're pretty normal we're both gonna take on the responsibility of birth control with the same, simple incision in the same place. If you're pretty normal then your Pad Y is around 596 and your Pad X is 463. PS. I've had mine done, it was great, I should have had that done at age 13. I'll still go with you to the appointment if you want because I know all of humanities issues can be solved by lowering the Earth's population. But I digress.

Okay, back to it.....you're ready to buy and, assuming you're in the U.S., I think we're gonna see bikes available soon, so let's get down to the nitty gritty. If you buy a Medium you're in a pretty extreme corner of that bike: slammed, so you can not go any lower. And we're using the TSP (Team Switch Plate) to pull the pads back a bit more than normal so you'll only have ~15mm to tighten the cockpit. All that gets summed up to say "the medium is a hair too big". A better situation is this....

On a size small SLX with a short stem you're in the stock mounts so you can come back as much as 33mm and stretch out as much as 90mm - lots of room to move there. AND in terms of "pad elevation" AKA "drop" AKA "Pad Y" - I'm prescribing 30mm of spacers so you can go down 30mm or up 25mm. You're right in the sweet spot of a size small. That's the bike for you!

If you have ANY hesitation or questions get back to me here. AND, if you'd like me to call your fitter to discuss the fit you had done and the numbers you walked away with I'd be happy to do that as well. I'll do it in a very respectful manner. PM me if you want me to act on that.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian - Wondering how I can get the right measurements to you if I no longer have my physical bike, but I do have the retul fit report handy.

ChasingPB,

Okay, I found your Pad X to be 377 to the rear of the pad. Canyon measures to the center of their pad (most bike companies do) so I've added the appropriate amount (50mm) and have your Pad X at 427. The Pad Y is said to be 710 on your fit sheet. Let me say this right off the bat: no way! I don't, for one second, believe these coordinates on your fit sheet are viable. It's possible, but I don't believe it. Here's why I find 'em dubious.
1) 427 is an incredibly short Pad X. The shortest the Speedmax SLX goes is 426 and that's a small with everything set to the extreme to get the pads back that far. This might be possible if you were very short and of that little height it was all legs and very little torso length at all.
2) 710 is an incredibly tall Pad Y. The tallest the Speedmax SLX goes is 685 and that's the large with everything set to the extreme to get the pads up that high. This might be possible if you were very tall and you've had so trauma maybe, like all of your lumbar vertebrata fused.
3) Your arm pad drop is 15mm. That seems questionable to me as well. I would expect your arm pad elevation to be at least 10% of our seat height and that would put it at 73mm.

I think the fit was....I'm sorry to say this but I think the fit was, somehow, just did not happen properly. This could be for a number of reasons. I still want to help and believe I can.

Get back to me here with your height. I can use that plus your saddle height of 735 and come out with a pretty good estimate of your real Pad Y and Pad X and then I can make suggestions.

Let me know, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, curious where your Pad X/Y formula would put me at. I’ve been playing with my position a lot lately and interested to see how this lines up with what I have currently.

Height - 173mm
Saddle Height - 733mm
Inseam - 813mm

Thanks!
Last edited by: dave_o: Jan 22, 19 11:39
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hahaha classic that I would manage to run into that issue - and exactly why I'm shopping around trying to find a fit in my new place. My height is 177 cm

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi there,
Pad X - 478
Pad Y - 610

Thank you!

IG -frebay | Strava
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Nicotriman] [ In reply to ]
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Nico, did I cover this request. I'm not sure I did. Can you confirm for me?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [frebay] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi there,
Pad X - 478
Pad Y - 610
Thank you!

frebay,

You can go one of two ways...
1) A size small, short stem,either bar (flat or rise), pads nearly in the middle of the stock arm pad mounts, and 45mm of arm pad pedestal.
---or---
2) A size medium, short stem, either bar, pads back to the next to last hole in the stock arm pad mounts, and 15mm of arm pad pedestal.

Both of those set ups are really nice, and it's good to have two options with availability being limited as it's been recently (at least in the U.S.). Just so you have all the info to help make the most informed decision...You have lots of room to move in terms of Pad X on both bikes. The Y number is a bit more restricted: the max pedestal on the small is 55mm (so, up only 10 more mm) and the minimum of pedestal is, of course, zero (so, down only 15 more mm).

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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No, Ian
Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Nicotriman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Hi Ian
Thank you for doing this

saddle high 741 mm
saddle set back 3 mm
Pad reach to back of pad 474 mm
stack 640 mm
Height 181 cm
Cranks 172.5
Thanks


Nico,

Mortified! I'm so sorry. Here we go.

I'm going to add 50mm to your Pad X to assume the center of the pad. That's a pretty standard and accurate way to get to the numbers that Canyon uses: 524. And Pad Y of 640. There are two ways you could go for the 2019 Speedmax SLX

1) The medium, with a short stem, either bar (flat or rise), pads in the stock mounts and pushed forward one hole from the maximum, and 45mm of pedestal.
---or---
2) The large, short stem, either bar, pads dead center in stock mounts, and 10mm of pedestal.

I like both of these set-ups, and it's nice to have two bikes from which to choose as availability can be limited. Often times we speak of how a fit could, possibly, maybe evolve - and - is there room to roam on a certain size. Both of these options offer lots of Pad X movement, both fore and aft. The Pad Y is the limiter here: the small maxes out at 55mm of spacer so that's 10 up. The large maxes out at zero so that's 10mm down.

Get back to me if you have questions, and I'll be timely.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thank you very much Ian
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I was hoping to get a fit done in a few weeks before posting here, but a new 2018 Speedmax CF in what I think my size and preferred color has just become available, and I was wondering if you could confirm I would be a medium?

I have previously been fitted on a newer version Cervelo P2 in a size 56. I don't have the specific measurements unfortunately, but I was fairly much in the middle range of all the cockpit adjustments from memory, but the saddle was pushed back almost as far as it could go on the rails (using an Adamo saddle). Apparently I have long femurs?

I am 181cm tall and my inseam is 32-33in. The seat on my road bike is 765mm from the centre of the BB and I am more of a long torso short leg build.

Would you feel the Medium would be a good size?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian!


Wish I saw this thread earlier! Its awesome that you are helping out all the folks that are thinking about getting Canyon Speedmaxs figure out best options for fit. Havent never this type of time and dedication from someone before on the forums.

Well... I ended up purchasing a 2019 Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0 (Medium) 2 days ago and it is getting delivered on Monday (Jan 28). Now, I am 2nd guessing on whether this size is too big for me or not. The Canyon tool said that I should go small or medium the first time but they didnt have any smalls in stock so I went with medium. I remeasured today and think that I may have fat fingered something because now its saying that I should go with a small. I currently ride a 2014 Cervelo P3 (56) which I knew was one size too big but got it to work with a slammed front end.

Only have physical measurements to work with right now:
Height: 175 cm
Inseam: 80 cm (31-32")
Torso: 67 cm
Shoulder Width: 40 cm
Arm Length: 60 cm
Weight: 64 kg

Crank length: Currently have a 175 (it was stock on the Cervelo) but want to go down to 165 on new bike.

Should I return the medium and get a small size instead? I just checked today and it looks like a small is in stock now. Would rather do it right on an expensive bike than make it work.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thank you!

Chirag Patel
Last edited by: cpatel529: Jan 26, 19 21:26
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Ian,

I’m about to buy my first TT bike, a Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. I’m 1.92m tall and currently ride a S-works roubaix SL3 (58cm), which fits well to me.

I was wondering to buy an XL Canyon, however when I input my measurements at their website, it suggests L size.

Could you please assist me on this matter? Should I go for the L frame?

Below some dimensions took during my bike fit. I have attached the full report only for the bicyle, due to the maximum size of attachments could not upload the my report.

Thigh Length: 455 mm
Shin Length: 436 mm
Hip to Wrist Vertical: -76 mm
Hip to Wrist Forward: 744 mm
Hip to Elbow Vertical: 109 mm
Hip to Elbow Forward: 526 mm

Thanks in advance
Best Regards,
Thiago
Last edited by: ThiagoP: Jan 28, 19 1:19
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [dave_o] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian, curious where your Pad X/Y formula would put me at. I’ve been playing with my position a lot lately and interested to see how this lines up with what I have currently.

dave_o,

With that I'm coming up with a Pad Y of 606 and Pad X of 467.

In my opinion, you "playing with your position" is a logical and necessary process in improving your position on the bike. The formula is something we'd use to help make a bike purchase if it were not possible to get a complete, prescriptive fit before buying. In this situation It think those numbers (606-467) are only really good as an academic exercise in testing the accuracy of the formula itself. Good on you for chasing perfection.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hahaha classic that I would manage to run into that issue - and exactly why I'm shopping around trying to find a fit in my new place. My height is 177 cm

ChasingPB,

Thanks for working through this with me. When I work with those number I get a Pad Y of 618 and Pad X of 480. You're a bit over 6 feet but that height is created with more torso and less inseam so I tweaked the assumption to suit that morphology.

If those numbers are right you're in a GREAT spot for a Speedmax SLX in size medium with a short stem, either base bar (flat or rise), and 25m of arm pad pedestal. If gives you room to tweak up, down, closer, farther to find perfection.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [manamana] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I was hoping to get a fit done in a few weeks before posting here, but a new 2018 Speedmax CF in what I think my size and preferred color has just become available, and I was wondering if you could confirm I would be a medium?

I have previously been fitted on a newer version Cervelo P2 in a size 56. I don't have the specific measurements unfortunately, but I was fairly much in the middle range of all the cockpit adjustments from memory, but the saddle was pushed back almost as far as it could go on the rails (using an Adamo saddle). Apparently I have long femurs?

I am 181cm tall and my inseam is 32-33in. The seat on my road bike is 765mm from the centre of the BB and I am more of a long torso short leg build.

Would you feel the Medium would be a good size?

manamana,

I'm coming up with a Pad Y of 633 and Pad X of 489. I'm going to prescribe this off of the 2018 (twenty EIGHTEEN) Speedmax SLX. If that's a typo and you meant 2019 get back to me.

So, yeah, the medium is the best bet. And, if those numbers are right, that medium should be built with...flat bar, short stem, pads back all the way and a single 60mm spacer + 5mm spacer. That 60mm spacer does not come stock and has to be purchased as an after-market item. If you wanted to....You could do a rise bar with two 20mm spacers, it would still be a short stem and pads back all the way.

Hope you can grab that bike up!!!
Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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That’s great, for that Ian.

Sorry for the confusion, but it’s a 2018 Speedmax CF 7.0 rather than the Speedmax SLX that I am looking at. Would you mind please re-checking the fit numbers as I understand the CF is a little shorter and taller? From what you have said, it may actually fit me better than the SLX?

Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [manamana] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Sorry for the confusion, but it’s a 2018 Speedmax CF 7.0 rather than the Speedmax SLX that I am looking at. Would you mind please re-checking the fit numbers as I understand the CF is a little shorter and taller? From what you have said, it may actually fit me better than the SLX?

manamana,

I'm the one to apologize, it says CF right in your query. Yes, the medium CF will be right on the money, in the middle of the range. It should be perfect for you based on those numbers.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cpatel529] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Well... I ended up purchasing a 2019 Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0 (Medium) 2 days ago and it is getting delivered on Monday (Jan 28)....Should I return the medium and get a small size instead?

cpatel529,
With the numbers you have (height, inseam, shoulder, torso, etc. etc) Canyon's PPS is your best bet to prescribe your CF. I'd need an accurate seat height to do better. Don't be put off by the vacillation between small and medium. Prolly half the population can fit on a small, medum, AND a large. And I'm am certain that if I had the numbers I like to work with I'd still offer up two different sizes. The proof is in the numbers:

The Pad Y range (this is how much the pads can go up or down) on the small is 582-669 and on the medium is 605-692. The overlap of 605-669 is huge! 65mm. That's a ton.
The Pad X range (this is how much the pads will shorten or lengthen the cockpit) is 447-472 and the medium is 467-492. The overlap there is 467-472 that too is pretty healthy - of course is even more than that realistically because both those bikes come with an 80mm stem yet they make a 70 and 90mm stem if one needed it.

I'm an advocate for being fit BEFORE you buy a bike but if that can't happen than I'm adamant about getting fit once it arrives. Canyon has a 30 day return so if you really do need a small you can get it but chances are you'll fit well on that medium.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Well... I ended up purchasing a 2019 Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0 (Medium) 2 days ago and it is getting delivered on Monday (Jan 28)....Should I return the medium and get a small size instead?


cpatel529,
With the numbers you have (height, inseam, shoulder, torso, etc. etc) Canyon's PPS is your best bet to prescribe your CF. I'd need an accurate seat height to do better. Don't be put off by the vacillation between small and medium. Prolly half the population can fit on a small, medum, AND a large. And I'm am certain that if I had the numbers I like to work with I'd still offer up two different sizes. The proof is in the numbers:

The Pad Y range (this is how much the pads can go up or down) on the small is 582-669 and on the medium is 605-692. The overlap of 605-669 is huge! 65mm. That's a ton.
The Pad X range (this is how much the pads will shorten or lengthen the cockpit) is 447-472 and the medium is 467-492. The overlap there is 467-472 that too is pretty healthy - of course is even more than that realistically because both those bikes come with an 80mm stem yet they make a 70 and 90mm stem if one needed it.

I'm an advocate for being fit BEFORE you buy a bike but if that can't happen than I'm adamant about getting fit once it arrives. Canyon has a 30 day return so if you really do need a small you can get it but chances are you'll fit well on that medium.

Ian


Ian,
Thank you for the comments about my fit based on the minimal parameters that you provided.

I am back from from a work trip and took some additional numbers:

1. Center of BB to the front of of pads is 570 mm (to the back of my pads where my elbow/back of forearm sit is approx 500 mm). Could also pull the pads and aero bar in about 10-20 mm without a fit problem to reduce this pad x.
2. Center of the BB to the top of my pads is 620 mm
3. Saddle (ISM PN 1.1) height at the front part of saddle is 1000 mm
4. Saddle height at the rear part of saddle is 1030 mm
5. Nose of saddle is just about even with the front of the BB (I generally dont sit with my hip bones at the front tip of the saddle but prefer to sit a little bit further back with my groin hanging just off the front end of the saddle).
6. Current Crank: 175 but want to go down to 165 on Canyon

Hope this provides more insight into my current fit that i have...

Any recs between small and medium are much appreciated. Thanks!

Chi
Last edited by: cpatel529: Jan 28, 19 1:26
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cpatel529] [ In reply to ]
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3. Saddle (ISM PN 1.1) height at the front part of saddle is 1000 mm
4. Saddle height at the rear part of saddle is 1030 mm

Chi,

Thanks for staying on this with me. We're getting somewhere. I'm having a problem with a couple of your numbers, but let's go with the biggie. You're 5ft 9in with a 32in inseam (175cm tall with 80cm inseam) and your saddle height is 1000mm. Can we double check that? I think your seat height is more likely around 704-709mm. Can you measure from the center of the bottom bracket (on the non drive side so you can put the measuring device dead-center in the bb) and go up to the middle of the saddle at the top of the saddle.

Let me know, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
3. Saddle (ISM PN 1.1) height at the front part of saddle is 1000 mm
4. Saddle height at the rear part of saddle is 1030 mm


Chi,

Thanks for staying on this with me. We're getting somewhere. I'm having a problem with a couple of your numbers, but let's go with the biggie. You're 5ft 9in with a 32in inseam (175cm tall with 80cm inseam) and your saddle height is 1000mm. Can we double check that? I think your seat height is more likely around 704-709mm. Can you measure from the center of the bottom bracket (on the non drive side so you can put the measuring device dead-center in the bb) and go up to the middle of the saddle at the top of the saddle.

Let me know, Ian

Ian,
Sorry. My seat measurements were to the ground, not to the center of the BB.

New seat measurements is:
1. Average distance of center of bottom bracket to top of seat (my seat is tilted downward a little): 740

Hopefully that is closer to what you are expecting (or seat is a little higher than it should be).

Chi
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cpatel529] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hopefully that is closer to what you are expecting

Chi,

This is great, here we go. I think your Pad Y and Pad X (based on the numbers you gave me) should be right around 613 for Pad Y, and 473 for Pad X. The Pad Y at 613 is a number we can rejoice since you came in with 620. We're only 7mm apart. My proposed Pad X of 473 is far shorter than your number of 535. That's not an easy number to measure. If you wanted to get darn close at home you'd make sure the bike was level, you'd hang a plumb bob on a long string so it bisects the bottom bracket and then you'd measure level from below the saddle out forward to the center of the pad. This is best done with two people. But none of this may matter and here's why...

You've got a Speedmax CF size medium coming today, and the question the table is which bike is better for you the medium or the small. The answer is....wait for it.... it cannot be the small. Your Pad Y of 613-620 works perfectly on the medium. Your Pad X however cannot work on the small. If you're pad X is as short 473 as I'm guessing then the small won't make it. The small maxes out at 472. If you ride crazy long, CRAZY long, then the medium will get all the way out to 492 with the 80mm stem that comes on it (and 502 if you got a 90mm stem). If your Pad X is really 535 (and I'm dubious) you'd have to be on an XL to get to 535, and then your Pad Y wouldn't be possible.

It would be great if - over the next couple of days - you built the bike up to a place that felt good, comfortable, powerful - and then took a video at profile of you riding and posted it up here. I can make suggestions on that if you like.

An exciting day for deliveries!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hopefully that is closer to what you are expecting


Chi,

This is great, here we go. I think your Pad Y and Pad X (based on the numbers you gave me) should be right around 613 for Pad Y, and 473 for Pad X. The Pad Y at 613 is a number we can rejoice since you came in with 620. We're only 7mm apart. My proposed Pad X of 473 is far shorter than your number of 535. That's not an easy number to measure. If you wanted to get darn close at home you'd make sure the bike was level, you'd hang a plumb bob on a long string so it bisects the bottom bracket and then you'd measure level from below the saddle out forward to the center of the pad. This is best done with two people. But none of this may matter and here's why...

You've got a Speedmax CF size medium coming today, and the question the table is which bike is better for you the medium or the small. The answer is....wait for it.... it cannot be the small. Your Pad Y of 613-620 works perfectly on the medium. Your Pad X however cannot work on the small. If you're pad X is as short 473 as I'm guessing then the small won't make it. The small maxes out at 472. If you ride crazy long, CRAZY long, then the medium will get all the way out to 492 with the 80mm stem that comes on it (and 502 if you got a 90mm stem). If your Pad X is really 535 (and I'm dubious) you'd have to be on an XL to get to 535, and then your Pad Y wouldn't be possible.

It would be great if - over the next couple of days - you built the bike up to a place that felt good, comfortable, powerful - and then took a video at profile of you riding and posted it up here. I can make suggestions on that if you like.

An exciting day for deliveries!!!

Ian

Ian,
Thank you SOO much!! You made my day with your insight based on the numbers that I provided. It was definitely difficult to measure pad x but I did the best that I could. However, seeing that a medium seems to be the only option for me (without going to an XL), I am going to stick with the frame that should be delivered in the next couple hours... Will use your recommended pad x and pad y numbers as a starting point and go from there. Also, will send you a video/picture to show the reach once I get everything setup to see if you have any additional recommendations..

Once again, appreciate the help and cant thank you enough!

Chi
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ThiagoP] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Ian,

I’m about to buy my first TT bike, a Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. I’m 1.92m tall and currently ride a S-works roubaix SL3 (58cm), which fits well to me.

I was wondering to buy an XL Canyon, however when I input my measurements at their website, it suggests L size.

Could you please assist me on this matter? Should I go for the L frame?

Thanks in advance
Best Regards,
Thiago

Thiago,

I took your height and used it along with a couple of numbers off your road bike fit report that I tweaked a tiny bit to assume where you might end up on a tri bike - there's a lot of supposition here, a pre-fit by an educated, experienced tri bike fitter with a dynamic fit bike is always best but.... I think you're Pad Y is roughly 672mm and your Pad X is roughly 518mm. Based on that....

I do think a Canyon Speedmax CF in size XL would be better for you than a Large. The Pad Y on either bike would work: the range on the Large is 627-714 and the range on the XL is 654-741. You have lots of room to go up or down - your road bike is pretty comfy: Robaix with a frame stack of 619 with 25mm of spacer and a -6deg stem. The Pad X is why I chose the XL over the Large for you. I think your Pad X is ~518mm and the range on the Large (488-513) comes up just a bit short. The XL's range is 508-533 and that should work. Also, it's important to note that both these bikes come with Canyon's longest stem for the CF.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Dear Ian,

Thank you for your valuable analysis, I was more to the XL as well, and now I’m sure which one I’m going to buy!

Best Regards,
Thiago
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I am looking at the 2019 SLX and my first question is if you can tilt the extensions up?

The below measurements are taken from my current bike with the extensions tilted up about 10 degrees:

Pad Y: 630 mm
Pad X: 540 mm

Saddle height: 777 mm
Saddle set back: 30 mm

My height: 182 cm

What size would you recommend?

Thanks,

Hans
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Mr. Y] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I am looking at the 2019 SLX and my first question is if you can tilt the extensions up? The below measurements are taken from my current bike with the extensions tilted up about 10 degrees:
Pad Y: 630 mm
Pad X: 540 mm
Saddle height: 777 mm
Saddle set back: 30 mm
My height: 182 cm
What size would you recommend?
Thanks, Hans

Hans,

Yes, you can tilt the bars 7 degrees.

For your coordinates you would want to be on a Medium, either bar (flat or rise), a long stem, pads forward a bit from center, and 35mm of arm pad pedestal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for starting up this thread.

The bike I'm interested in is the Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. Canyon PPS calls for a Medium frame, looking to confirm with you.

Measurements are;

Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
Inseam: 89.2cm
Torso: 60cm
Arm: 64cm
Pad reach: 493mm
Pad stack: 707mm

Thanks again,
-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for starting up this thread.
The bike I'm interested in is the Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. Canyon PPS calls for a Medium frame, looking to confirm with you.
Measurements are;

Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
Inseam: 89.2cm
Torso: 60cm
Arm: 64cm
Pad reach: 493mm
Pad stack: 707mm

Todd,

If you're confident of your Pad Y being 707 and a Pad X being 493 then the right CF is a size Large. The Pad Y on the Medium maxes out at 692 and that leaves you 15mm lower than you prefer. Even the Pad X on the Medium maxes out just 1mm shy at 492.

Get the Large.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I suspected the large was more appropriate after reviewing the specs on Canyon’s website. Odd that PPS recommends an M.

I am confident in those numbers and understand they’re high and short relative to most.

Any specific recommendation on cockpit configuration with the L? Spacers and such?

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Any specific recommendation on cockpit configuration with the L? Spacers and such?

Todd,

The Large comes with a 90mm stem and that'll be right for you. The areobars are for sure gonna be Profile-Design, and while I'm not sure which model (Subsonic or otherwise) I can tell you that it's SUPER easy to remove the pad cushion (velcro) and move the arm cups fore or aft to get the cockpit perfect. I think if the pads are one hole forward of the "farthest-back-they-can-go" position it'll be right on 493. You're also gonna want to be 7mm lower than the max height. I'm not 100% sure how you're going to do that only because I haven't had my hands on the CF yet.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.


Best Regards, Nicolai Wium

Neo-pro triathlete

https://www.instagram.com/nicolaiwium/
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [NicolaiWium] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.

Nicolai,

I am a firm believer that there is an order of excellence in the pre-fit process, a hierarchy if you will....
#1 is a pre-fit with a fitter who is educated by a fit school who gets triathlon, experience in tri fits, and owns a dynamic fit bike.
#2 is by taking measurements off of an existing bike that a rider loves, a bike where the athlete is confident in that position.
#3 is me plugging an athletes height and saddle height into a formula and coming out with a good estimation.
#4 is using Canyon's PPS on their site.

If you are interested in being fit by a legit fitter who can prescribe not just your Pad Y and Pad X but all your coordinates, give me your location and let me try and find a fitter for you.

If you are buying a Canyon Speedmax to upgrade from an existing bike that you like. Let's discuss how to take 2 simple measurements off the old one and I can nail the proper size frame AND front end configuration for your new bike.

If you want me to use my formula then let me know your seat height and I'll go to work with that

If you have are body measurements then go to Canyon's site and plug those into the PPS and use that result.

You're tall and much of your height comes from long legs. I'd love to know your saddle height from your road or tri bike.

Let me next steps, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian!

I'm thinking about getting a Canyon Speedmax CF SLX, and would like to hear about sizing.
My height is 192cm and inside-leg is 90 cm. My own guess would be a L.


Nicolai,

I am a firm believer that there is an order of excellence in the pre-fit process, a hierarchy if you will....
#1 is a pre-fit with a fitter who is educated by a fit school who gets triathlon, experience in tri fits, and owns a dynamic fit bike.
#2 is by taking measurements off of an existing bike that a rider loves, a bike where the athlete is confident in that position.
#3 is me plugging an athletes height and saddle height into a formula and coming out with a good estimation.
#4 is using Canyon's PPS on their site.

If you are interested in being fit by a legit fitter who can prescribe not just your Pad Y and Pad X but all your coordinates, give me your location and let me try and find a fitter for you.

If you are buying a Canyon Speedmax to upgrade from an existing bike that you like. Let's discuss how to take 2 simple measurements off the old one and I can nail the proper size frame AND front end configuration for your new bike.

If you want me to use my formula then let me know your seat height and I'll go to work with that

If you have are body measurements then go to Canyon's site and plug those into the PPS and use that result.

You're tall and much of your height comes from long legs. I'd love to know your saddle height from your road or tri bike.

Let me next steps, Ian

Hello Ian

That all makes sense!

Right after the season last year I sold my tri-bike, so I currently don't own one.
But my seatheight on my road-bike is 79-80cm from the BB.
However, I did find some numbers from an old bikefit done on a Shiv TT 2 years ago, I'll attach it here. It's on Danish, but there is a picture of where the measurements belong. Hope it makes sense.
And yea, I'm from Denmark.

Neo-pro triathlete

https://www.instagram.com/nicolaiwium/
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [NicolaiWium] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I did find some numbers from an old bikefit done on a Shiv TT 2 years ago, I'll attach it here. It's on Danish, but there is a picture of where the measurements belong. Hope it makes sense.

Nicolai,

Makes perfect sense. Your Pad Y is darn near 672 and your Pad X is very near 518. For the new, 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX you would for sure need a Large with either base bar (flat or rise), the short stem, you'd place the arm pads in the stock mounts and ~3 holes forward of the furthest rearward position, and you'd need between 40 and 45mm of spacer (40 gives you a Pad Y of 670 and 45 gives you a Pad Y of 675).

Keep me posted here on your purchase or get back to me with any questions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian. Thanks in advance for your help.

Pad stack - 640mm
Pad reac (to back of pad) - 445mm
Seat height - 819mm
My height 185.5cm
Last edited by: EP: Feb 10, 19 13:19
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [EP] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hello Ian. Thanks in advance for your help.

Pad stack - 640mm
Pad reac (to back of pad) - 445mm

EP,

I'm gonna tweak the Pad X to estimate the center of pad (that what Canyon uses). So: Pad Y 640 and Pad X of 495, you could go one of two ways....
1) A medium with either bar (flat or rise), short stem, pads pretty much dead center of the stock mounts, and 45mm of pedestal. The Pad Y on a medium maxes out at 55mm and that requires an aftermarket item called a "high stack flat spring".
----or----
2) A large with either bar, short stem, pads all the way back to the max of the stock mounts (that's 498 by the way), and 10mm of pedestal. I think 3mm is an acceptable error in the Pad X but if you did need it to come back farther then all you'd need is a TSP (Team Switch Plate, again, aftermarket) to shorten the reach even more.

I think the Large is the right call but it's nice to have two options due to availability.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.

Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
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cmart wrote:
ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.


Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle

Interesting - yeah with the money I'm saving going to a CF and already having a wheelset on hand, it'll be fun to use some of that elsewhere

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
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ChasingPB wrote:
cmart wrote:
ChasingPB wrote:
What if I was leaning towards a CF... this is new bike #2 on the year with the Ultimate I just got, so while I'd love all that integration, just can't justify the purchase price.


Think I wouldn't overrate the integration anyway. Cameron Wurf uses bta hydration and smashes every bike split record. Also for ~200-250$ you could go for a PD aeria ultimate stem + bottle


Interesting - yeah with the money I'm saving going to a CF and already having a wheelset on hand, it'll be fun to use some of that elsewhere


Exactly. Most probably spending on fit instead of integrated hydration gives a LOT more gains for $. I mean don't get me wrong, I'd take the most expensive SLX any day if it's a match fit-wise and it would be the same price as the CF.. But I don't believe that's the place to get the most bang for your bucks
Last edited by: cmart: Feb 11, 19 4:59
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Let's give this a go when you find a minute...

Measured to top rear of pad:
Arm Pad Reach: 450mm
Arm Pad Stack: 555mm
Arm Pad Drop: -140mm
Saddle Height: 717mm
Saddle setback: -60mm

Ideally the full Y range compatible with your prescription would be great

-Grant
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TriFluid] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Let's give this a go when you find a minute...

Measured to top rear of pad:
Arm Pad Reach: 450mm
Arm Pad Stack: 555mm


Grant,

A Pad Y of 555 is very low. If for any reason you think that might be off get back to me and let's discuss other avenues. I took your Pad X of 450mm and I tweaked to assume the center of the pad at 500.

For the 2019 Speedmax SLX it has to be a small and even as a small the Pad Y is going to be 565. That's the lowest the new SLX goes. The Pad X of 500 is no problem: it's the short stem with pads in the stock mounts and one hole back from max forward position - and, of course, slammed.

Now you asked for the full range of the Pad Y. We've established the bottom at 565, you can increase in 5mm increments but to 610. If you acquire an aftermarket element called the High Stack Flat Spring then you can eek out another 10mm and max at 620.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for the quick response. About what I figured. Thick pads has me at 560 armpad stack but rounded it down to see at what point I would end up sized out of the frame. On a 48cm IA currently and nearly bottomed out without resorting to more obnoxious measures (undermount, the old Easton Attack bars, etc.).
Last edited by: TriFluid: Feb 11, 19 16:06
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian,

Fitting an existing bike and front end fit is fine (with 90mm stem) but run out of seat rail to push the saddle back further (using a https://ismseat.com/...e-recreation/pr-3-0/ saddle so the rail is already extended forward more than most saddles). Do you know if there is a setback seatpost available for a 2017 Canyon Speedmax?

Thanks

Dave Jordaan
https://cybercyclecoach.com/bike-fitting/
Last edited by: cybercyclecoach: Feb 12, 19 10:14
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,

Steve Hall here. Per our conversation the prescribers are 5’7” (170.18) and 717.55 Seat Height.

-Steve
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cybercyclecoach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dave,

I've never seen any alternate posts for the Speedmax. However, I feel like I've seen a couple of iterations of the rail clamp itself (I could be wrong about this). Can your clamp be removed and reversed to gain a couple more mm of setback? The image below looks like it's symmetrical so flopping it wouldn't help but I want to check in on that first.


Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Racing Yoda] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian,
Per our conversation the prescribers are 5’7” (170.18) and 717.55 Seat Height.

Steve,
I think your Pad Y is roughly 595 and your Pad X is 459. Based on that...

Your Canyon Speedmax SLX is a size small, with either bar (rise of flat - but, go with the flat bar), short stem, pads set one hole forward of the rearward most position in the stock pad mounts, and 30mm of arm pad pedestal.

I'm loathed to even type this but I'm gonna simply because I want all possibilities on the table. You could fit on a medium too but you'd be painted in the utmost corner: short stem + the TSP (Team Switch Plate) to pull the pads to 10mm of their shortest-cockpit-position-possible, and then the stem absolutely slammed with zero spacers. The result on the medium is that if the formula missed by even 15mm then you cannot go down even a millimeter more and you cannot get close enough to make the position optimal.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you - that did resolve my fit problem.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I too am struggling between deciding on the size for the CF.

Did a bike fit (Guru) a few months back and these are the numbers:

Cranks: 170mm
HX: 454mm (handlebar horizontal)
HY: 605mm (handlebar vertical)
SX: 195mm (saddle clamp to nose 100mm)
XY: 691mm (saddle clamp vertical)


Saddle thickness: 50mm
Saddle setback: 95mm
Saddle height over BB: 766mm (although I think it should be more like 740mm!)
Drop from saddle to bars: 76mm
Reach from saddle to extension tip: 892mm
Extension length: 340mm
Pad reach: 439mm
Pad stack: 665mm
Pad height: 60mm
Pad offset: 15mm
Pad Center to Center: 250mm
Handlebar + skibend extensions: T4+

I'm 180cm.

Looking at the numbers on Canyon's Speedmax CF webpage I'm deciding between S with heaps of spacers under the pads and M with saddle height set at 0? The saddle height and reach is what is confusing me!

I ride an Ultimate M and sometimes I do seem a bit stretched when riding on the hoods.
I believe I'd feel more comfortable on it if I'd replace the 420mm wide, 100mm stem length H36 cockpit to something like 400mm/80-90mm.

Thanks in advance.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [surpher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I too am struggling between deciding on the size for the CF.

Did a bike fit (Guru) a few months back and these are the numbers:

Cranks: 170mm
HX: 454mm (handlebar horizontal)
HY: 605mm (handlebar vertical)
SX: 195mm (saddle clamp to nose 100mm)
XY: 691mm (saddle clamp vertical)


Saddle thickness: 50mm
Saddle setback: 95mm
Saddle height over BB: 766mm (although I think it should be more like 740mm!)
Drop from saddle to bars: 76mm
Reach from saddle to extension tip: 892mm
Extension length: 340mm
Pad reach: 439mm
Pad stack: 665mm
Pad height: 60mm
Pad offset: 15mm
Pad Center to Center: 250mm
Handlebar + skibend extensions: T4+

I'm 180cm.

Looking at the numbers on Canyon's Speedmax CF webpage I'm deciding between S with heaps of spacers under the pads and M with saddle height set at 0? The saddle height and reach is what is confusing me!

surpher,
Thanks for including all your numbers it really helps me decipher the fit.

I'm supremely confident that the medium Speedmax CF is the bike for you and to explain that let's start with the easy one, the Pad Y. The range on the medium is 605-692 and your 665 sits pretty nicely in the middle of that. You need 60mm of "up" and I think you could do that nicely with ~30mm of spacer under the stem and another 30mm of pedestal within the aerobar build. The small maxes out at 669 and that's just 4mm away from your number - doable but less room to move in the future if you needed a tweak.

I pretty much have to insist that your Pad Reach (Pad X) of 439 HAS TO BE measured to the rear of the pad. I'm even more certain as I look at your HX at 454 and the pad offset is 15mm - that leads me to believe that your pads were 15mm behind the center of the bar bore (HX). I'm going to proceed with the assumption that your Pad X is really 480 - I'm adding 40mm to get at or near the center of the arm pad. The range on the medium is 467-492 and this puts you in a good place on that range.

For us to be certain it would be great if you called your fitter an asked them one, simple question: "this pad reach number on my fit form, is that to the rear of the pad or the center of the pad?"

I have other comments:
1) "seat height 766 but I think it should be 740". That's a 2.5cm difference. That's huge! It's not like you and the fitter differed over 3-5mm, this a big number in terms of fit. What is the seat height on your road bike?
2) Saddle setback 95mm - what saddle was used in the fit and where were you sitting on it (middle, forward of middle, or off the front). 95mm of set back seems dubious to me, and if we come to learn that your Pad X of 439 is to the center then I'm going to factor that into an opinion about what may have happened during this fit.
3) Don't settle for less than perfect with the Ultimate. Get the cockpit with the shorter stem but with 25mm wide pads I'm thinking a 42 is still a good call in bar width.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian,

I see that now. Thanks for your help. I don't think I could have figured that out without you.

Steve
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi.

I am currently riding a Canyon speedmax AL in size M, and thinking about upgrading to a SLX this year. I think size M would be the best option, but I am not sure about going for a size M or S.

Reach-470
Stack-661
Saddle height-760

I am 179cm

And do you think the new front for the 2019 model is worth the extra cash over a 2018 model?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Snjo] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I am currently riding a Canyon speedmax AL in size M, and thinking about upgrading to a SLX this year. I think size M would be the best option, but I am not sure about going for a size M or S.
Reach-470
Stack-661
Saddle height-760
I am 179cm
And do you think the new front for the 2019 model is worth the extra cash over a 2018 model?

snjo

Let me start by confirming something. The terms "Stack" and "Reach" identify a place on a bicycle framed at the top of the head tube. For a mortal bike the Stack and Reach are important. To prescribe the SLX (a super bike) I want to use Pad Y and Pad X. It gets confusing because we sometimes get loose with this terminology and default Pad Y to Pad Stack.....and Pad X to Pad Reach. I would expect your Pad Y to be 626ish and your Pad X to be 483ish. 661 and 470 don't go as well together as I'd like so I want to check in on the terms and numbers just to confirm. Get back to me on that and I'll proceed.

Here's my answer to your query about the 2019 front end being worth the price over the 2018. A very difficult question for someone representing Canyon to answer, but one I welcome for no other reason that to sustain my reputation for benefiting the athlete with honesty above brand loyalty. The definitive answer is: no. If you are able to acquire a 2018 SLX for super inexpensive price you should do it (get back to me on those numbers and I'll prescribe BOTH the new 2019 and the old version). That bike can only be found in some hidden back-stock (does that even exist with Canyon?) or used. That bike is fantastic! It won 4 Ironman World Championships. Is the new better? Yeah, sure. Is the new bike more comfortable than the old one? No, that's all about fit. Is the new bike more powerful than the old one? No, power is about the rider. The new bike has less drag than than the old one but in the real world the fit says a lot more about that drag then the bike itself.

Confirm those numbers and I'll get back to you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:

For us to be certain it would be great if you called your fitter an asked them one, simple question: "this pad reach number on my fit form, is that to the rear of the pad or the center of the pad?"

I have other comments:
1) "seat height 766 but I think it should be 740". That's a 2.5cm difference. That's huge! It's not like you and the fitter differed over 3-5mm, this a big number in terms of fit. What is the seat height on your road bike?
2) Saddle setback 95mm - what saddle was used in the fit and where were you sitting on it (middle, forward of middle, or off the front). 95mm of set back seems dubious to me, and if we come to learn that your Pad X of 439 is to the center then I'm going to factor that into an opinion about what may have happened during this fit.
3) Don't settle for less than perfect with the Ultimate. Get the cockpit with the shorter stem but with 25mm wide pads I'm thinking a 42 is still a good call in bar width.

Ian

Thanks Ian, really appreciate you taking your time to answer these fit questions here.

The "Pad reach" (Pad X) surely is from BB to the rear of the pad horizontally. 439mm is rather short imo. Looking at the numbers and instructions how to setup the bike, HY states 454mm (BB to center of handlebar horizontally), then "Pad reach" from saddle tip should be way longer, somewhere around 480mm as you've stated above. And especially if my saddle tip is 95mm behind BB.

The saddle to BB setback 95mm does indeed sound a lot too. It's supposed to be BB to tip of saddle. It's the new Specialised tri(ish) saddle. Can't find the name printed on it and I threw away the packaging. I sat a tad towards the front of it. Maybe 2/3 towards the front while doing the fit.

I've also measured the saddle height again on my 3 bikes and they all hover around 750mm. 740mm on my fixed gear track bike, 745mm on the Ultimate and 750mm on my current TT of which the frame is way too small - can't get reach and stack right! Hence looking at getting a CF.

Regarding the Ultimate, 10mm shorter stem would definitely help improve the comfort! I ride a track bike with 400mm wide handlebars and they feel really good width-wise. So I might give 90mm/400mm a go (if it exists in H36 cockpit model).
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hey Ian,

sorry for the followup but I'm interested in what you think the better choice would be. Thinking about getting the XL and additionally including a 70mm stem which would give me a nice range for the reach with a lot of potential to go longer compared to 11mm on the L (according to your formula)

Thanks so much!


cmart,

I welcome this follow up and any more that arise. My raison d'etre is fit and I want you to be comfortable, powerful, and slippery on this bike so let's keep after that goal.

I went back and reread your original post. I looked at all the details you gave and all the data I have. I think you should get the XL but do not order the 80mm stem right away. Hold off on that. When it arrives pull the pad cushion off (velcro) and mount the hard arm-rest shells as far back as they go (this is Profile-Design aerobar, super easy to work on). That will give you a Pad X of 508 to the center. The pads are nearly 100mm across so you may very well find yourself loving where your elbow sits on the pad or just off the trailing edge of the pad. By the way, Mat Steinmetz (a great fitter based in Boulder and designer/owner of 51 Speedshop aerobars) and I both teach fitters for the Guru Academy. He's adamant about elbows being on the pad, not hanging of the pad - on that damn pad! He'll do 7 minutes of material about it in class. Me, I'm okay with elbow being in the center of the pad, near the back, hanging slightly off the back - where ever if feels best to the rider.

One more thing on this - none of this fit will work, NONE of it, unless you love the saddle. This bike will come with a Fizik Mistica on it and it's a great saddle, millions love it. If you're not one of those millions then you have to get another saddle. The only way all this discussion about the Pad X will work is if your saddle is in the right place (seat height and set back) AND you are sitting on that saddle where it's supposed to be ridden (the front 1/2). If you are pushing your bum back to the back of that saddle to find comfort then the fit will not work. Just be aware of that.

Ian

Hey Ian!

Just to let you know, I ordered the CF in L because the XL was not in stock and also I might buy a PD Aeria Ultimate Stem + Hydration, so that would give me an additional 1cm reach should I need it. I let you know if it fits and thanks a lot!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [cmart] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian!

Just to let you know, I ordered the CF in L because the XL was not in stock and also I might buy a PD Aeria Ultimate Stem + Hydration, so that would give me an additional 1cm reach should I need it. I let you know if it fits and thanks a lot!

cmart,

GREAT news!!! Play with the stock set up and see how it feels. If you go with the full Profile Design Aeria Ultimate system (stem, bar, hydration) it'll make your ride a full blown, super bike.

Send pics of the arrival when it comes in.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
For those who are coming to the Roadshow at Canyon HQ in Carlsbad, CA tomorrow. I'll be set up ready to do my first Express Fit at 8am. If we've discussed your Pad Y/Pad X, lets confirm it with an Express Fit tomorrow.

See you there, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Hi Ian!

I want a buy a Canyon Speedmax CF 7.0

Gender: Man
Height: 182cm
Inseam: 85cm
Torso: 65cm
Arm: 62cm
HX: ~46-47cm
Saddle hight from BB center: 76,5cm

I rode in the last 4 year a Scott Plasma 2 LTD size S with a 110mm Stem and 172,5mm Cranks.

What do You think is it a Speedmax CF 7.0 WM 2018 in size M fit for me?(It is cheper than the Man Bike :-)) (Stem is 70mm-shorter with 10mm than the Man version Bike)
Thank you
Vili from Hungary
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I don't know how to say this other than to just lay it out there..... There are Speedmax SLX 9.0 (that's the super bike, the high-end build, the new front end that's so sleek) in size medium available for the US market, now at https://www.canyon.com/...hlon/speedmax/cf-slx

The word I got was that 100 Speedmax bikes arrived and are available. I have no idea what types/sizes/builds but this is the first time since I started this thread that the any size of the new Speedmax SLX 9.0 has been available.

I'm typing this on Saturday night (just after the Roadshow), my bet is that they'll be gone by Wednesday.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Feb 23, 19 21:40
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,
I asked the question today at the Canyon/Slowtwitch expo about crank sizes and fit. Thanks for your great answer!
I have a CF SLX size medium that comes with 175mm cranks and my fitter says I would be better on smaller ones.
I guess it is just frustrating that Canyon does not have a smaller cranksizes and you must replace a brand new crank.

Team Zoot So Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian,
I asked the question today at the Canyon/Slowtwitch expo about crank sizes and fit. Thanks for your great answer!
I have a CF SLX size medium that comes with 175mm cranks and my fitter says I would be better on smaller ones.
I guess it is just frustrating that Canyon does not have a smaller cranksizes and you must replace a brand new crank.


Karl,
Thanks for being there yesterday. That was a great Roadshow!

Let me begin by saying that I agree with your fitter about the shorter cranks. Also I agree with you 100% with frustration. I spoke with the top man at Canyon USA yesterday and he told me the long term goal is to get to a place where the customer buying bike can make choices like we do now with group 9.0 (with Di2) vs 8.0 (with Ui2), or color - make choices like that with component specifics like crank length at the time of purchase. When I say long term, he seems to think it's 2 years down the road. So my response was - while we're waiting for that can we scale the cranks with the frame sizes much like we do with stems on the Speedmax CF - right now when you buy a XS CF you get a 70mm stem, the small & medium comes with an 80mm stem, and the Lg & XL comes with a 90mm stem. That seemed to take hold and will be a near future fix.

As a fitter I'm used to and seem to have come to accept the idea of buying a new bike, it having the wrong stem or saddle and removing that brand new item and swapping out with a retail purchase. The main problem with the crank is that it's just more expensive. The good news that most folks seem to be having is that a) they can pull 'em before they ride and sell 'em new and b) add crank based power to their new shorter crank purchase - feeding two birds with one scone (that's PETA's new idiom - my first use by the way).

So, they're working on it.

As I mentioned yesterday, 165 is the smallest the big players go right now (Shimano, SRAM) and lots of us should be on smaller stuff anyway - stuff that Canyon or really any bike maker would prolly not spec - so then you're looking at Info Crank, Cobb, Rotor to get to 160, 155, 150mm.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Feb 25, 19 11:11
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi, again. Here are my numbers from my last fit. I have removed one 5mm spacer on the front since that time, so the Pad Y would be 656. As you can see the Pad X is measured to the back of the pad, so you might add 40-50mm to get to the middle.
On a SLX size M, this puts me on the lower end on pad x and higher end on pad y. I am also wondering what a split nose saddle would do for the position. This might bring me forward on the seat, making the pad x larger?
I am also considering buying the angled spacer kit to get a higher hand position.



Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian, interested in your thoughts/recommendation based on a recent Guru fit:

Pad reach: 556
Pad stack: 765
Pad height: 43
Pad offset: 46
Pad Center to Center: 245


Hx: 602
Hy: 722
Sx: 161
Sy: 765

Saddle ht over BB: 829
Saddle setback: 26
Drop from saddle to bars: 48
Reach from saddle to bars: 896


Crank length: 172.5
Extension length: 267

Saddle thickness: 48
Saddle clamp to nose: 135

Saddle tip to center pads: 570

Extension pitch: +12 deg
Saddle: -5 deg

6' 3", ~190 lbs

Thanks!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [chrisrpdx] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply

Quote:
Hi Ian, interested in your thoughts/recommendation based on a recent Guru fit:

Pad reach: 556
Pad stack: 765
Pad Center to Center: 245

Saddle ht over BB: 829, Saddle setback: 26, Drop from saddle to bars: 48, Reach from saddle to bars: 896
Crank length: 172.5
Extension pitch: +12 deg
Saddle: -5 deg
6' 3", ~190 lbs


Chrispdx,

There are some numbers in here that give me pause. I expect that someone's drop (arm pad elevation) to be 12-15% of their set height. Yours is ~5%. There might be a reason...
1) beer belly for example - but you're 6'3" 190 and that doesn't say "big belly" to me
2) lots and lots of fused vertebrae, especially in the lumbar area.
2) fit didn't proceed forward enough (steep enough in seat angle) - but setback is 26mm and that seems sensible - unless...you were sitting way back on this saddle to find comfort, then this gives me a false reading.
3) fit process didn't entice you to ride lower on the front end. This happens from time to time - someone, fitter or fittee needs to step up and say "hey, let's keep going lower and see you can stay comfortable, maybe even find more comfort".

The drop speaks to your Pad Y and your pad y is a big number. If you were able to ride at even 10% of your seat height then your Pad Y would be 730 and that's a number that we can celebrate and put to use. The best Canyon Speedmax in the line for you is the CF. You'd be on an XL, which comes with a 90mm stem. That stem maxes out at a Pad X of 533. You'd need a 110mm stem and Canyon doesn't make that so you'd go out into the real world and get a Ritchey, Zipp, or Giant stem (they have a 1 & 1/4 inch to fit the steer tube). That would give you the length you need. The height would be right with some room to spare as it maxes out at Pad Y of 741. Now, If I'm wrong about my assumption, and you have to be up in the neighborhood of 760 in your Pad Y then all you'd do is acquire that new, longer stem in a +6 pitch and you'd be in the 760s.

Get back to me with questions or clarification.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 7, 19 21:19
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

I measured the inseam, torso, arm length, ...etc to get me size recommendation for Canyon Speedmax CF SLX 9.0. Using following in inches, of course this is to the best to my ability measure them.

Height 70, Inseam Length 33, Body weight 160, Torso Length 23, Shoulder Width 19, Arm Length 23.

Here are my recent fit numbers in "cm" on my Cervelo P3.

Cervelo P3 Seat height- 75.5cm Seat set back- 2.0 Drop- 11.4 Reach- 49.4 Pad Width- 24.2

The recommended size from website is "M", and as this is tri bike, it will probably last buy in foreseen future. I wanted to make sure, and if possible hear your suggestions about using smaller size for aero benefit. If not, if the medium is absolutely the best for me.

Thanks for creating this help,

Regards, Onder
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

Onder,

I have a firm belief that there is a hierarchy of accuracy in finding the proper Pad Y & Pad X before buying a Canyon Speedmax. Here they are in brief:
1) Get a pre-fit from an educated, experienced tri fitter who has the proper tooling (read: dynamic fit bike). The added brilliance of this is that you also get all your fit coordinates so that when your new bike arrives you can put it into the perfect position.
2) If you own a tri bike that has an excellent position then let's measure off the old bike to ID the proper new bike
3) Give me your saddle height and overall height and I can work it.
4) Take all your body measurements and plug 'em into Canyon's PPS

So, I can work with the numbers you sent me (755mm and overall height 1778mm - converted from 70in). But...if you like the way your current bike fits I could walk you through a way to measure it at home that could, potentially yield a better Pad Y, Pad X than tweaking the numbers.

Let me know and I'll act on either way you want to go.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:


Onder,

I have a firm belief that there is a hierarchy of accuracy in finding the proper Pad Y & Pad X before buying a Canyon Speedmax. Here they are in brief:
1) Get a pre-fit from an educated, experienced tri fitter who has the proper tooling (read: dynamic fit bike). The added brilliance of this is that you also get all your fit coordinates so that when your new bike arrives you can put it into the perfect position.
2) If you own a tri bike that has an excellent position then let's measure off the old bike to ID the proper new bike
3) Give me your saddle height and overall height and I can work it.
4) Take all your body measurements and plug 'em into Canyon's PPS

So, I can work with the numbers you sent me (755mm and overall height 1778mm - converted from 70in). But...if you like the way your current bike fits I could walk you through a way to measure it at home that could, potentially yield a better Pad Y, Pad X than tweaking the numbers.

Let me know and I'll act on either way you want to go.

Ian

Thanks Ian for getting back promptly, appreciated.

My bike fit number i gave you, are directly from my last fit, from a very experience fitter on Retul. I am somewhat happy with my fit, however i may need to adjust slightly (been a year), as my heart rate increases when on aero tuck. This could be due to new seasons adaptation issue, as i ride my road bike mostly, which i am very comfortable on.

My hope with the new bike is to find a better position with its geometry, where i dont have heart rate increase. If Small is workable, i can get the small and adjust to it, or Medium if the small would be a ridiculous decision. In this forum, i have seen a taller person(184cm) recommending definitely small, for example. As there are two choices, medium or small, if i am at the border, would you recommend going to small?

Regards, Onder
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
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My bike fit number i gave you, are directly from my last fit, from a very experience fitter on Retul.

Onder,

I want to apologize for the delay and misunderstanding. If you got a fit in which you believe/trust/rely - fantastic! I want 2 important numbers from that fit and it's Pad Y and Pad X. Those are numbers we need to prescribe between a small and a medium. The numbers you provided: seat height, set back, drop, and "reach" are great numbers and those can, and sounds like should be used, but to prescribe a purchase I want Pad Y (AKA Pad Stack) and Pad X (Pad Reach). Again, I can act with some of your body bits but I prefer the Pad Y and Pad X from that fit.

And...I want to go one step further... let's say that Pad Y and Pad X was never written down after the fit - that's okay. I still want the Pad Y and Pad X off this good position that you have.

What I'd ask you to do is take your existing bike, get it pretty darn level (kitchen floor maybe - resting against the cabinets so straight up and down that it's nearly tipping over). Then, drop a plumb line (even if this is makeshift like tying a string to a salt shaker) off the back of your arm pad (front wheel has to be straight in-line with frame) so it's nearly touching the floor. Then measure the gap between that string and the center of your bottom bracket. That's Pad X to rear of pad. Then do it again this time dangling the plumb line from the front of the pad. I want both those numbers. Then - and this one I fear is a two person job, but maybe not - put one end of a level on top of the arm pad and hold the other end (or middle) of the level right beside the nose of saddle. Then measure from the base of that level down to the center of the bottom bracket - that's your Pad Y.

If you can do this - if you're willing to do it. That's a more accurate number and one from which I'd prefer to work. HOWEVER, if this isn't possible then I can make an estimate with your height and saddle height.

Let me know, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Ian, I did the measurements you mentioned:
For PadX: The projection of rear of the arm pad to bottom bracket to center of BB is 18.25 inches. Interestingly, the nose of the saddle projected dead on center of BB.
From the front of the pad, this number is 22.875 inches.
For PadY: From the bottom of level on arm pad to the center of BB is 24 inches exactly.

Hope these can give you reference as to what my size would be, and how much wiggle it pay provide if i were to fit again in future on that given size.

Regards, Ian
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [onder] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thanks Ian, I did the measurements you mentioned:


Onder

I did some conversions and some math and here are numbers with which you should be confident:
Pad Y 609mm & Pad X 523mm (this is to the center of the pad)

There are two ways you can go - as you are already aware...

2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, size small, long stem, pads one hole back from the furthermost mounting position and 45mm of arm pad pedestal. You can do that configuration with either the flat bar bar or the rise base bar.

---or----

2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, size medium, short stem, pads one hole back from the furthermost mounting position and 15mm of arm pad pedestal. Again, flat bar or rise bar.

You asked me specifically a few posts ago this: .....
Quote:
hear your suggestions about using smaller size for aero benefit.
You asked, so here goes - I don't participant in the rabid belief/fascination/obsession our industry (and this forum) has for aerodynamic-ness. Yes, there's value in being slippery - yet it seems to me nearly everyone ignores the dozen or so priorities that MUST precede aero (training accurately, not being fit properly on the bike, not being skilled enough to pedal through corners or down a hill, carrying too much body fat, poor pacing, etc. etc. etc.) This is why we see venerable people (read: old) on modest bikes (read; shitty) with durable wheels (read: boxy & slow), with antique groupos (read: 9 speed), with ironic cranks (read: long), comfy helmets (read: vented) - crushing the bike splits of younger people on $10,000 bikes with disc wheels. There's a ton of stuff that matters before aero and then the aero gains are so easily erased with goofy, foolish actions.

My guess is that if you put a size small Speedmax in a wind tunnel and tested its drag against a medium, the small would beat it. I think this is true of all makes/models - And I think that matters for one person: Lionel Sanders and nobody else.

Here are the logical considerations to take into consideration between the two bikes:
1) Room to Move - by this I mean does one bike paint you in a corner in anyway. As it happens I think this might be the case here. You currently ride with a handle bar elevation (drop) of 114mm. That's ~15% of your saddle height, pretty sizable. You speak of having this bike for ages and I think you, like many of us, will find as you age you'll want to reduce the ol' neck crane and you might soften that drop to 110mm or 90mm. It's important to note that the small bike will only move 10 more mm - AND - you'll have to acquire an aftermarket item (high stack flat spring) to do it. The medium will let you move 30mm in that direction if you so desire. Also, if you ever want to go longer in your cockpit the small will dead-end in 4mm and you'll need the aftermarket TSP item to go longer.
2) Stock comfort - I've already noted the TSP and high stack flat spring - it's good to consider the elevation difference between the aero position and the pursuit bars (bull horns). The bike comes stock with the flat base bar. If you get the small the distance from the arm pads down to the brakes is 45mm for you. It might be nice to pruchase the rise base bar so that the brakes are in close reach from the aero position. On the medium there's 15mm of gap there and, for triathlon, I think that's better.
3) Availability - this is no joke. I started this thread on November 21st of 2018 and there were ZERO SLXs available then. There were no SLXs available (in the US) until February 23 and for the first 10 days after that only size medium. As I type this there are S, M, and L in the 9.0 and M & L in the 8.0. How many? Who knows. When's the next batch coming in? Who knows? I don't know and I've asked important people who seem unwilling or unable to tell me. So sometimes choice is about what's available.

If you've got more questions - bring 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 15, 19 20:33
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, it sounds like Medium is a better fit to me. Your approach to the details is incredible. I really appreciated your consideration of suggesting me all this, and guiding me in sizing.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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So I am thinking about replacing my Felt IA with a new bike. I have found out at my lst fitting that I need 2mm more but my 58 has no more room. Anywho i am thinkinf of the Speedmax CF or the CF SLX. Since you already have my fit report Ian i figure you can tell me what you suggest. I think XL is the only size that will fit me but I sent a message to Canyon and they said both models top height is 905mm. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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When you need 2 mm for a proper bike fit i dont consider that inconsequential.

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Since you already have my fit report Ian i figure you can tell me what you suggest. I think XL is the only size that will fit me but I sent a message to Canyon and they said both models top height is 905mm. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts.

TizzleDK

I like this one, it's challenging.

I received the fit report but only 3 of the fields are filled in on the entire document
Fitness: 4
Fitter: MSL
Cykel: Tri

Also, I know zero Danish but I can guess from context, to be sure, I translated almost everything from Danish to English. There is no record of Pad Y & Pad X or Pad Stack and Pad Reach on this document. I get why you are focused and concerned about your saddle height - you've got this bike that is flawed in one specific area and that's saddle height. However....The Pad Y & Pad X are absolute critical numbers needed to buy any and all super bikes and I need those numbers.

If the fit doesn't produce those numbers that's not the end of the world. There are other ways we can get them....

What I'd ask you to do is take your existing bike, get it pretty darn level (kitchen floor maybe - resting against the cabinets so straight up and down that it's nearly tipping over). Then, drop a plumb line (even if this is makeshift like tying a string to a salt shaker) off the back of your arm pad (front wheel has to be straight in-line with frame) so it's nearly touching the floor. Then measure the gap between that string and the center of your bottom bracket. That's Pad X to rear of pad. Then do it again this time dangling the plumb line from the front of the pad. I want both those numbers. Then - and this one I fear is a two person job, but maybe not - put one end of a level on top of the arm pad and hold the other end (or middle) of the level right beside the nose of saddle - and, of course, get the level level. Then measure from the base of that level down to the center of the bottom bracket - that's your Pad Y.

If this is not possible then get me just two numbers: your overall height and your saddle height.

Last three notes:
1) I do know that that max seat height on the Speedmax SLX size large is 908mm and that's with a saddle that's 47mm thick (we measure that from center of the saddle rail to the top of the saddle).
2) I too think that 2mm in seat height is, perhaps an acceptable error in measurement. To give you an example: most of us train in a cycling short and race in a tri shot. The thickness between those two pads might be 3mm.
3) I'm willing and eager to keep working on this please get back to me when you can.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

Stack: 590 mm Reach: 445 mm
Effectiv seat angle: >79 Saddle: COB JOF Fifty Five
Spacer under extentions/armpads: 60 mm
Height 195 cm
Weight (not telling you) :)


Heheh

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Stack: 590 mm Reach: 445 mm


TizzleDK,

I'm on a mission that is greater than just prescribing Canyons. I'm an educator first and foremost. So, please hang in there for this tid bit. The terms Stack and Reach refer to a place on the frame (top of the head tube). This is a critical number for "mortal bikes" - any bike that uses a normal stem, like the Shiv that was in the list of options that your fitter offered you. Pad Stack and Pad Reach is a very different number and the one we MUST use for super bikes. I dug it out of your fit sheet and tweaked the Pad X as it was to the rear and Canyon measures to center.

Your Pad Y (Pad Stack) of 740 and Pad X (Pad Reach) of 555. Now, let's be clear, you're tall. Your saddle height is 887mm and your arm pad drop is 137mm. That's a bit more than 15% - which I'd consider a healthy drop....and...with all of this taken into consideration. The Canyon Speedmax SLX won't come up to meet you. The max Pad Y on the large is 685mm - a full 55mm lower than your number.

The Canyon Speedmax CF however will do it. You would be on an size XL with almost the max spacers to get to 740. And for the Pad X, you'd have to remove the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike and put on a 110 stem to get out to 555mm.

Your big worry was the max seat height. I'm not even 100% sure that the XL will deliver out to 887. Let me send a note to the engineers in Germany to confirm.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, thanks for taking the time to do this and educate me. I will wait, I have prepared myself mentally in case none of the Canyons fit me and I have to look elsewhere or stick with what I have. And yes I am quite tall...built like Jan Frodeno (tall, very long legs and short torso) with the none of the ability to swim, bike or run like him. :P

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian,

Question for you. Does Canyon USA offer a tilt kit / angled spacer kit for the new CF SLX? Trying to figure out the best way to add some tilt to my set up.

Thanks!

-------
Anders
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [AMC] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian,

Question for you. Does Canyon USA offer a tilt kit / angled spacer kit for the new CF SLX? Trying to figure out the best way to add some tilt to my set up.



Anders,
Yes. Canyon USA has a tilt kit for the 2019 Speedmax SLX. You can choose 0 degree (no tilt) or a 7 degree tilt and nothing in between.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: Mar 20, 19 7:07
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I ride a speedmax cf -18. Would itt be possible to rotate the j5-armpadbrackets (supersonic brackets) 180 degrees and switch sides to get a couple of centimetres extra armpad reach. It looks like it would be possible, has anyone tried it? I would like to keep the original stem just based on aestetics...
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [superdea] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I ride a speedmax cf -18. Would itt be possible to rotate the j5-armpadbrackets (supersonic brackets) 180 degrees and switch sides to get a couple of centimetres extra armpad reach.

superdea,

Yes and yes! Just pull the extensions using that super smart/easy clamp screw and then remove the arm rests. You can flop the clap to the other side of the bar and get a bit reach out of it when you reassemble.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for offering all of your guidance. After 9 years on a SC Gen 1. It is time to move on, it is M. I had a bike fit done about 6 years ago and my mobility is still good. When I bought the bike the local shop did a quick fit but upon going and getting a professional fit my reach wasn't long enough and my stack was a bit high, but we made some adjustments and the fit is very comfortable. When the fit was done Retul, the fitter said that a small would have fit me better. I can't speak to this truth just what he said.

I did the PPS on Canyon and they said a Small, but after reading your posts you weren't sold on that system so some advice would be greatly appreciated.


Currently on my SC my
stack is 591(center of BB to top of pads)
reach is 500(center of BB to center of pads)
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [lonniecdams] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Ian, thanks for offering all of your guidance. After 9 years on a SC Gen 1. It is time to move on.....

I did the PPS on Canyon and they said a Small.....some advice would be greatly appreciated.

Currently...my
stack is 591(center of BB to top of pads)
reach is 500(center of BB to center of pads)

lonniecadams,

Just to be clear.... I think the Canyon PPS is VERY GOOD. However, no formula is as good as a pre-fit by an educated, experienced fitter with a dynamic fit bike. And, no formula is as good as a bike that's been ridden and tweaked and feels great. The proof is in your post: you had good fit and then later went a bit longer and lower in your position- no formula will come close to the circumstances that have lead you to your position. It's great!!

On the 2019 Canyon Speedmax SLX, you are absolutely a small. And you're a small with a short stem, with pads one hole shy of all the way forward, and 25mm of arm pad pedestal. You are in a PERFECT spot on that bike as it comes stock.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian, thanks for the feedback. As far as the short stem, I did just get out of the water and it was a late spring race. Thanks again!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [lonniecdams] [ In reply to ]
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Shrinkage....the struggle is real.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Todd,
The Large comes with a 90mm stem and that'll be right for you. The areobars are for sure gonna be Profile-Design, and while I'm not sure which model (Subsonic or otherwise) I can tell you that it's SUPER easy to remove the pad cushion (velcro) and move the arm cups fore or aft to get the cockpit perfect. I think if the pads are one hole forward of the "farthest-back-they-can-go" position it'll be right on 493. You're also gonna want to be 7mm lower than the max height. I'm not 100% sure how you're going to do that only because I haven't had my hands on the CF yet.

Ian
Morning Ian,
I had one follow up question I was hoping you could help with. Re-pasting my measurements here in case they are needed.

Quote:
Measurements are;
Height: 184cm
Weight: 81kg
Inseam: 89.2cm
Torso: 60cm
Arm: 64cm
Pad reach: 493mm
Pad stack: 707mm

I'm pulling the trigger on a size L Speedmax CF 8.0 SL which I have no doubt will fit me well as-is. However, I'm contemplating replacing the stock stem with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate so that I can couple that with the Aeria Hydration system. If I swap the 90mm stock stem with the 100mm PD stem do you think I will still be able to achieve the desirable coordinates?

Thanks again for all the help.

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm pulling the trigger on a size L Speedmax CF 8.0 SL which I have no doubt will fit me well as-is. However, I'm contemplating replacing the stock stem with the Profile Design Aeria Ultimate so that I can couple that with the Aeria Hydration system. If I swap the 90mm stock stem with the 100mm PD stem do you think I will still be able to achieve the desirable coordinates?

Thanks again for all the help.

Todd,

This is a great idea. When you add Profile's Aeria system up front you'll have the cables disappear, the built in hydration system - it basically becomes a super bike. Now, about the priority: fit.

My short answer is YES I think you'll be able to achieve your coordinates. I'm just not 100% sure what hole you arm pads will be in. I have both a Profile Subsonic and a Aearia Ultimate here in my fit studio and I just inspected them to confirm my suspicions. The arm bracket on the Subsonic has only 2 rows of mount holes while the Aeria Ultimate has 4 - double the fore-aft movement. And it seems that the bracket for the Aeria allows the pads to come back over the top of the base bar more than the Subsonic and that's the direction you'll be wanting to go. You'll have to measure it out and remount the arm pads once or twice to nail the number but I'm certain you'll get there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Fantastic, thanks again for your input and help Ian! The bike is on order and I can't wait to put some miles on it!

-Todd
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian, thanks so much for doing this thread!

I'm looking at getting a Speedmax CF 7.0. Canyon's tool said I would be a medium but I'd like to be sure. It will be my first tri bike so I have no idea what my Pad Y and Pad X are, but here is all the other info I have in cm's:

Inseam: 83
Trunk: 65
Forearm: 34
Arm: 60
Thigh: 60.25
Lower leg: 54.5
Sternal notch: 147.5
Total height: 177.8

Weight: 76 KG

Thanks so much

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Matt,

It's your first tri bike but do you own a road bike now? If so could you measure your seat height from the center of the bottom bracket (this is where the crank mounts and spins around) to the top of your saddle roughly in the middle. LMK, Ian
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Yes I have a road bike. When I had a fit done a few years ago the distance from BB to saddle was 74 cm. But now I've moved the seat back and down a bit so it's just under 73 cm.

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I'm looking at getting a Speedmax CF 7.0. It will be my first tri bike so I have no idea what my Pad Y and Pad X are, but here is the info I have....

Matt,

Your morphology is created with a bit more inseam - not a ton. And if you're pretty normal with no outstanding oddities I think your Pad Y is roughly 624 and your Pad X is pretty close to 477.

Your new Canyon CF should be a medium for sure. You're gonna land right in the sweet spot of that bike so there will be room to move. It's going to come with an 80mm stem which is perfect for your fit on this bike. If my numbers are right you'll need 15mm of spacer under the stem and pads one hole forward of the closest-to-you setting.

Enjoy!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [TizzleDK] [ In reply to ]
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TizzleDK,

I just heard back today (moments before your note) and the max seat height on the CF XL is 911cm. You got it made!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Amazing, thanks so much for the valuable info and quick responses Ian! It is definitely a big help!

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Woohoo! That's great news! Thanks Ian!

"see the world as it is not as you want it to be"
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian just a quick follow up question. Since there doesn't seem to be any CF 7.0 models in stock I was looking at the SPEEDMAX CF WMN 8.0 model. From what I understand the differences in terms of frame dimensions are pretty minimal. Do you think this is a model that would work with my sizing as well?

Thanks

Matt
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

first thanks for this great thread for Speedmax fans.

I would like to share my current bike fit numbers with you. I achieved my current fit a year ago via local Guru Fit Studio, but I raised my pads by 10mm and changed the saddle from PS 1.1 to stock Fizik Mistica . I am struggling a bit with saddle discomfort, not sure if its the saddle itself or wrong saddle coordinates [height and setback]. Overall the fit feels pretty ok, but have not tried it yet beyond 2.5-3hrs ride.


Speedmax CF , size L

Seat height 790mm (measured from BB do the approx.middle of the saddle Fizik Mistica), but normally I sit on the front half of it, which makes ca. 785mm
Pad Stack 695mm
Pad Reach 510mm
Pad drop 82mm
Pad c-c 24cm
Armrest kit is PD F-35 /stock ones/, installed in the most rear holes
Aero extensions Zipp Vuka Evo 110
Saddle setback - 30mm behind BB

my height 185cm
weight 76kg
Inseam 880mm

Thank you for your time and opinion

Kamil
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [xoslic] [ In reply to ]
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Kamil,

Thank you for this refreshing post. Most of what I do here is prescribe for purchase but you've already got your bike so I'm happy to poke around a bit in your numbers and discuss.

Based on your Pad Stack and Pad Reach you're perfect on that size large. You could have just made it on an XL but painted into a bit of a corner. Your arm pad elevation is ~12% of seat height which is what I'd expect. Setback is 30mm and you're sitting on the nose of a logical saddle.

Now, about that saddle - which seems to be your chief complaint. I'm not a believer in any of the tools that marketing departments come up with to predict saddle comfort. I think it all comes down to getting into your position (either on your bike or a fit bike that's set up to your coordinates) and then having lots of different saddles put under you until you find one you love. Your position seems logical, I don't see something in there that says "Ah Ha! that's what's causing the saddle concern!". So that might mean that it's a basic saddle issue - we're here on the internet having never met so I have to do to you what my computer tech assistant does to me when I call and say I can't get this download to work and she starts with "is the computer plugged in?". So...just confirming the basics: you are riding in a quality bike short with no seams in the pad and you've got pad on skin (no underwear). Also, if you're out for more than say 90min I think some sore lube is nice - you can pay the high dollar for the bike specific stuff or get some A&D Ointment from the diaper isle at your local pharmacy.

Here's my one question for you - and I doubt it'll effect saddle comfort - I worry your cranks are 175s. Can you check that and get back to me here?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [matthewg] [ In reply to ]
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Matt,

Let me say this right up front - the frames are the same, identical.

I have to admit that I haven't looked that closely at the difference between the CF bikes and CF WMN bikes. I wanted to compare apples to apples so I picked the two Dura Ace mechanical bikes ...I've just spent the last 15min pouring over the differences between the CF 8.0 ($3,999) and the CF WMN 8.0 ($3,599). Here's my takeaway which is completely biased by my own priorities in bike purchase:

1) FIT - the Pad Stack and Pad Reach on the XS are identical between both versions. On the SM and the bike you're after, the Medium, the Pad Stacks are the same but oddly enough the Pad Reach's are different even though they both come spec'd with the same stem (80 on both). That's pretty bizarre - I'll inquire down the road what's up with that - but let's stick to what matters for you, here, now - The WMN bike Pad Reach claims to be 10mm shorter in reach. If that's true (could be a typo) the 15mm spacer spec is the same (cuz the Pad Stack is the same), but the pads would now be mounted dead center on the bracket to offset that 10mm difference if in fact that exists.

2) Groupo/Price - for me, after fit, it's all about the components and price just scales with them. You were originally looking at the 7.0 which is a 105 bike at $2,599 and now it's a Dura Ace bike at $3,599. I'm not a grouppo snob and frankly both 105 and Ultegra have developed so nicely over the years that I don't care that much. My attitude is if it's not electronic then it's mechanical and as long as you avoid the no-go zone of sora/tiagra/2300/etc then you're perfect. That said, DA is sweet - durable, light, fast shifting, gotta love it.

3) Color - Much like Spinal Tap's album "Smell the Glove" they are black - It's worth a revisit

4) Wheels - the DA bike you're looking at now has 45mm deep aero wheels from Mavic that retail for $1500. Funny how the price between the two bikes goes up $800 but the wheel value difference is ~$1000 more and the groupo is ~$600 more. So you're paying $800 more for ~$1600 more in sexy wheels and a DA group set!

5) odds and ends: Gearing is same on both: 52x36 rings with 11x30 cassette, tires are the same, lot of identical stuff here.

My last piece of advice is to buy that bike before it goes out of stock!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian,

thanks for you post. I am glad my numbers look good. No worries about crank length, mine is 170mm (I sold stock Ultegra with 175 and replaced with Quarq 170mm). So my saddle setback looks ok to you?
It is not very clear to me, how do I have to measure seat height on my Speedy - BB to middle of saddle or front third or half, where I place my pubic rami?
BTW my seat height is 1cm higher on TT bike than on my road bike, is it ok?
Next weeks I plan to ride a test version of much praised ISM PN 3.0 and 3.1, so I will see.

Many thanks for your comments!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks for all that info Ian! Truly is a massive help and I also appreciate the vid you provided as well haha. I do like the straight black color though ;) Have a good one!

Matt
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [xoslic] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kamil,

Great news about crank length!
Saddle set back seems "logical" - I can't speak to how it looks in text.
Measure your saddle height form center of BB to front third on that saddle (and then keep measuring it that way forever more), and yes, it should be a bit higher than your road saddle height.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Helo Ian,

Pad reach: 51cm to the middle of the pad
Pad stack:67 cm to the bottom

Can I fit a speedmax SLX or is the stack too high? Is the speedmax CF XL the better option?


Greetings


Luc
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Testrider] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Pad reach: 51cm to the middle of the pad
Pad stack:67 cm to the bottom
Can I fit a speedmax SLX or is the stack too high? Is the speedmax CF XL the better option?

Luc,

You can fit on a Speedmax SLX. You would be a size large, with the short stem, pads one hole forward of fartherst-back-they-can-go position, and 40mm of arm pad pedestal. You fit nicely on that bike!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Thanks in advance for taking the time to do this. I've been reading this thread for awhile and really enjoyed just reading all the deep responses.

I'm looking at a Speedmax CF, probs between M and L? I'm riding a road bike w clip-ons right now so the below numbers are from a fit on that... I dunno if that's helpful or not. But thanks anyway!

Height: 183
Weight: 77
Inseam: 84
I would say I'm more torso+arms, less legs

Saddle setback: 8.0
Saddle reach: 57.7
Saddle height: 76.0
Seatpost setback: 1.5
Crank: 175
Tip of saddle to aeropads: 50.0

Handlebar
X 488
Y 667

Frame
X 410
Y 606
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [icecubes] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Thanks in advance for taking the time to do this. I've been reading this thread for awhile and really enjoyed just reading all the deep responses.
I'm looking at a Speedmax CF, probs between M and L?

icecubes,

I plucked some of the salient data from your bike below and I think your true Pad Y is ~640 and your Pad X is ~494.

For the Canyon Speedmax CF you're going to have to do the size Large. The medium could work too but not with the 80mm stem that comes stock on that, you'd have to get a 90mm stem to make the cockpit a bit longer (the pad height will be fine). I think the Large will look cool and feel great too because you should only need about 15mm of spacer under the stem (so slammed-ish....slammed adjacent). And the pads back one hole forward of as-far-back-as-they'll-go. This is good too because you've been riding a road bike for a while and your saddle set back - at 8cm, at your height - is rather large (especially if you're a bit more torso+arms). This new bike will need to be ridden forward more than you're used to - so that you're hips are nearly over the bottom bracket. My guess is that you might progress into this and in so doing the Large will give you room to move the arm pads out front.

I'm excited for you. You're gonna be rather shocked at how much more comfortable you'll be in a true tri position, and, therefore, how much faster you'll go.

Keep me posted.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Ian,

Any advice on parts that you would order with the bike that Canyon sells so it can be fit properly, and then if it doesn't turn out just return the part?

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hey Ian,
Any advice on parts that you would order with the bike that Canyon sells so it can be fit properly, and then if it doesn't turn out just return the part?

ChasingPB,

Hmmm...This is interesting. My thinking has always been order the bike knowing the parts needed to get the bike in the right spot and then you're good to go. But of course this is from the "fit first" perspective. We we chatted on this thread back in late January I made a hypothesis based on your morphology and am confident in that: Speedmax SLX, M, Short Stem, 25mm pedestal.

There are only a few aftermarket parts one can order for the Speedmax. They are:
  • The TSP (Team Switch Plate, you can see a pic on pg 7, post 156 of this thread). There's already 54mm of fore-aft movement in your Medium with Short Stem but the TSP adds another 30mm more to that fore-aft if needed.
  • A different length stem. Canyon makes two stems for the Speedmax SLX; a short at 65mm and a long at 85mm. I'm certain the bike will come stock with the short stem which is the one I think you need.
  • Tilt Kit. I haven't installed one yet but I do know this much - you get 0 degree tilt or 7 degree and nothing in between. Not sure if or how much the install of this this effects pad elevation.
  • High Stack Flat Spring - I do not know what this is but I do know it is needed when the pad's aren't high enough and you need to come up another 10mm. The max pad pedestal is 45mm, the High Stack Flat Spring can get us to 55mm
  • Rise Base Bar - the only logical argument I can see for this is if someone has 45, 50, 55mm of pad pedestal and they want they're brakes & pursuit position closer to their aerobar height.

I know that Canyon has this amazing return policy on bikes. Be sure to check and see if that's the same for parts.


Lastly...if my numbers are right you don't anything more. You'll be in the sweet spot of the stock bits that arrive with the bike and you can go up or down, fore or aft enough to find the right spot.


Keep me posted on that as I want to know how it goes.


Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi
I'm interested to know a little bit more about what's achievable with the stack on the 2018 Speedmax CF SLX 8.0
Quoted stack and reach;
595 - 648.
I know that Canyon make a raised base bar which gives you approx. 40mm extra arm pad stack.
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.

Does this mean maximum achievable is stack is;
708 with normal base bar and 60mm spacer.
688 with raised base bar.

any help appreciated Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I'm interested to know.....the stack on the 2018 Speedmax CF SLX 8.0
Quoted stack and reach; 595 - 648.
I know that Canyon make a raised base bar which gives you approx. 40mm extra arm pad stack.
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.

Carl,
Good question. There are some who follow this thread and learn from it so let's hit the important note on this post...we're talking about the Pad Stack (Pad Y) range of 2018 (twentyEIGHTEEN) Speedmax SLX. Everything I'm about to type is not applicable to the 2019, which has a different front end with different numbers and options.

The full Pad Y range of the 2018 Speedmax SLX size Large (you didn't specify size but based on the numbers...I got you) is 595 at the low end and 710mm at the high end. Let's break down the details on this range...
The 2018 bike offered 3 different base bars: Drop, Flat, Rise. The aerobars mount in such a way that the Pad height is effected by the choice of bar and you already get that.
  1. Drop Bar's complete range is 595 to 675
  2. Flat Bar's complete range is 605 to 685
  3. Rise Bar's complete range is 630 to 710


The bikes come stock with the flat bar AND three 5mm spacers and two 20mm spacers to combine for a total of 55mm. I say "complete range" because to get to the maximum of any of those ranges you need two aftermarket items: 1) is the Rise Bar. 2) is the a 60mm spacer and then you would use just one 60mm spacer to get to 60mm of arm pad pedestal. Beyond that it would be a 60+5, 60+5+5, 60+5+5+5, or finally a 60+20 to get to the max.


Quote:
I was also told (by Canyon) they make a 60mm spacer, but it can't be used with the raised base bar.
I have never heard this. And the perscribers I'm living off of show the allowable ranges with 60mm pedestal on a Rise bar for all three size bikes. Okay, there are two things we can do. Get back to me on your source of the Rise bar + the 60mm pedestal being a "no-no". If that person sounds respected I will contact the engineer in Germany who acts as my most trusted source on such matters.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian
That's an awesome response and appreciated. I missed out the crucial bit of info apologies, it was actually a medium frame I was talking about
which on the Australian Canyon website has the following ranges in standard configuration;
Stack range 595 - 648
Reach range 475 - 549

The information about using the 60mm spacer came from the general email enquires from the Australian Canton website.
Would you mind putting together the information you outlined below for the Medium frame.

once again really appreciate your input

Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Would you mind putting together the information you outlined below for the Medium frame.

Cal,

Awww, no worries. I was SURE you meant a Large.

For the medium...
The full Pad Y of the 2018 Speedmax SLX size Medium is 555 to 675.
1. Drop Bar's complete range is 555 to 635
2. Flat Bar's complete range is 570-650
3. Rise Bar's complete range is 595-675

The Pad X on this bike...
1. Short stem 489-516 (if you use the TSP you can get down to 462)
2. Long stem 516-536 (if you use the TSP you can stretch it out to 563)

Everything I have indicates that it's okay to use a 60mm pedestal with the Rise bar. I've never heard anything to the contrary ('til your post). It is, of course, critical that you match the proper length bolts with pedestal combo so that there are enough threads to hold it all together properly.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian
Much appreciated, it sounds like I may not achieve the pad Y required with the Speedmax which is a shame but just to be clear,
the figure you quoted below does include the 60mm pedestal? or not?


Quote:
3. Rise Bar's complete range is 595-675


cheers

Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cal Naughton Jr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Cal,

Yeah, I think I get the direction you're headed here - which is up. So, the max would be achieved with rise bar, a single 60mm + a single 20mm pedestal and that would result in the max Pad Y of 675.

Ian

PS the Speedmax CF in size Medium has a max Pad Y of 714.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian
Thanks again, I like the detail and how things work and you've provided it! It's always difficult to get the detail out of the bike manufactures a set of
drawings with spacer options would be helpful.

Numbers from last bike fit below, I thought the Speedmax CF SLX might be pushing it.

Last bike Shiv L (to big)
Current saddle Cobb Fifty Five (best so Far)
5'11"
Saddle height 780
Pad Y - 705
Pad X - 460

I understand these are slightly odd numbers but have had 2 back surgeries, I find it difficult to find a saddle that works and this intern means
Pad Y is higher than it probably should be.

Once again many thanks appreciate your patience.

cheers

Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian.

Question for you.
I was last fitted (FIST) at the end of 2010.
I haven't changed my fit since then. (other than replacing my saddle - Specialized Sitero)
I do think I could now go lower, but I am unsure by how much.
Current dimensions on the bike - 2011 Argon18 E112

Pad Stack 735
Pad Reach (centre) 449

Saddle Setback (to nose) 65
Drop - 70

These were pulled off the current bike, but I won't claim they are fully accurate.
Picture in use attached.
as you can see, not an aggressive fit (But is UCI legal, which is a requirement, and still needs to allow me to run after)

Any chance I might fit on either of the current Canyons?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium.
Height: 182 cm
Inseam: 92 cm
Torso: 60 cm
Shoulder width:45 cm
Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me:
Pad Stack: 645
Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.

Any advice would be appreciated.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello Ian,


Can you please help me to select proper size of Canyon Speedmax CF7? My measurements are below:
Height: 175 cm
Inseam: 80 cm
Weight: 68 cm
Torso: 65 cm
Shoulder: 49 cm
Arm length: 58 cm


Thanks,
Roman
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Cape_Horn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
Ian.
I was last fitted (FIST) at the end of 2010. I haven't changed my fit since then. (other than replacing my saddle - Specialized Sitero)
I do think I could now go lower, but I am unsure by how much. Current dimensions on the bike - 2011 Argon18 E112

Pad Stack 735
Pad Reach (centre) 449
Saddle Setback (to nose) 65
Drop - 70

These were pulled off the current bike, but I won't claim they are fully accurate.
Picture in use attached.... UCI legal, which is a requirement, and still needs to allow me to run after

Any chance I might fit on either of the current Canyons?

Cape_Horn,

Short, Quick Answer: if you're going to stay with Pad Stack of 735 and Pad Reach of 449 then you'd need to be on the Canyon Speedmax CF in a size large but you'd need a shorter stem than the one that comes stock on the large. But, that set up would leave you in this position which I'm not happy about so let's go to the longer answer for as it's a far better one.

Longer, More Valued Answer: Everything about pic says "up and back" to me. That bike you're on has a seat angle of 76 degrees and you're on a road saddle (comfort is found rearward) so your hips are behind the bottom bracket in a such a way that it's forcing your cockpit to be short and your arm pads to be high - that's confirmed in the fact that you've got the tallest 3D headset top cap thingy + what looks like another 20mm of spacer + a +6 degree stem. Now, what might save this whole position is the new saddle because that new saddle might allow you to sit farther forward and give you the position your need/deserve but the question is - did the new saddle result in you flipping that stem (-6 degree), stripping out that 20mm spacer, maybe even going to the shorter/shortest 3D top cap, and moving the pads out or going to a longer stem? If, not - if you have the same front end set up with then new saddle then not much has changed.

You can be UCI legal and be in a comfortable (top priority), powerful (second priority), and slippery (third priority). A better position on the this bike will help you get there....also, a more modern bike with better geometry will help you get there.

I'd like three things from you if you can get 'em for me: 1) where do you live (city). 2) I want your overall height and 3) I'd like your saddle height measured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of your saddle in the middlish. Get back to me with that and let's continue this discussion. #1 is cause if one of the fitters on "my list" is near you then I'm going to urge you to go see them. #2 & #3 are in case you are too far from a great fitter then I want to propose a Pad Y/Pad X that is far closer to where you could be.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium. Height: 182 cm Inseam: 92 cm Torso: 60 cm Shoulder width:45 cm Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me: Pad Stack: 645 Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Stimps9,

If we're talking the Speedmax SLX then yes, you'd be on a medium and yes you'd go a bit longer and lower as your wanting to be. Let me expand on that. The Medium Pad Y maxes out at 650, even at 645 you'd need a little aftermarket thing (Canyon calls it a "high stack flat spring") but at 640 you'd be in the realm of the 45mm of arm pad pedestal that comes with the bike. Also the shortest the Medium goes is 448 and that's with the aftermarket "TSP". You might still need the TSP to lengthen yourself out to 455, 460, 470 it's not 'til you get to 475 that you're in the stock Pad X zone.

You'd also fit on the Speedmax CF but that's a bigger discussion. Let me know if you want me to expand on that.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rprotsyk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Roman,

I can do it for sure. Would you be able to give me your saddle height (center of bottom bracket to top of saddle near the middle)?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian,


Saddle height (center of bottom bracket to top of saddle near the middle): 74.5 cm
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian,

Great thread, am thinking of pulling the trigger on a Speedmax so your assistance would be appreciated. I got the numbers below from a Canyon fitter who recommended me a medium. Height: 182 cm Inseam: 92 cm Torso: 60 cm Shoulder width:45 cm Arm Length: 70 cm

I had a Guru fit done on my current bike (58cm Cervelo P2) in 2016 which gave me: Pad Stack: 645 Pad Reach: 442

I would like to be able to get lower than I am on this fit, also I feel a bit cramped so the ability to be more stretched out would be nice.
Any advice would be appreciated.

Stimps9,

If we're talking the Speedmax SLX then yes, you'd be on a medium and yes you'd go a bit longer and lower as your wanting to be. Let me expand on that. The Medium Pad Y maxes out at 650, even at 645 you'd need a little aftermarket thing (Canyon calls it a "high stack flat spring") but at 640 you'd be in the realm of the 45mm of arm pad pedestal that comes with the bike. Also the shortest the Medium goes is 448 and that's with the aftermarket "TSP". You might still need the TSP to lengthen yourself out to 455, 460, 470 it's not 'til you get to 475 that you're in the stock Pad X zone.

You'd also fit on the Speedmax CF but that's a bigger discussion. Let me know if you want me to expand on that.

Hi Ian, many thanks for this however I’m afraid, even though these are the numbers on the Gurufit report they do not represent the measurements I actually have.... (or they do it differently) I measured my fit manually after reading your feedback and the correct numbers are:
Pad X (BB to center of pads) = 480mm
Pad Y (BB to pad) = 630mm

Sorry for my mistake, any chance you could let me know how this changes things? I’m looking at both the SLX and CF.

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Stimps9] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I measured my fit manually after reading your feedback and the correct numbers are:
Pad X (BB to center of pads) = 480mm
Pad Y (BB to pad) = 630mm

Stimps9,

No worries! For most folks these numbers are not something we need to know on a daily basis - in the same way I don't have to maintain the knowledge of how many BTUs my hotwater heater needs (uses?), I'll just leave that to the experts on the day I have to replace it (let that be never insha'Allah).

In the Speedmax SLX you are perfectly a Medium with a short stem (comes stock), 35mm of arm pad pedestal and pads one hole forward of the furthest-back-they-can-go position.

In the Speedmax CF you are exactly a Medium as well and with all the stock accoutrement.

You've got great choices there.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [rprotsyk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Roman,

I think you're Pad Y is very near 613 and your Pad X is about 473. Based on that....

You could go one of two ways on the Canyon CF

1) Would be a size Small. 613 puts you in a very nice spot for the Pad Y range on that bike: 582-669, and it'll be super easy to raise or lower your arm pad position to find the perfect spot. The Pad X on the Small maxes out at 472 and I suspect your Pad X is 473. The wiggle room would be 30mm of difference between elbows hanging off the back of the pad vs dead center on the pad. BUT...if my 473 is off by a lot (and I doubt that it is) you could remove the 80mm stem that comes stock on that bike and purchase a 90mm stem and gain more cockpit distance if needed.

2) Would be a size Medium. 613 puts you pretty close to the bottom of the minimum Pad Y - it's 605. The Pad X of 473 would be fine as there's plenty of range above and below that on the Medium.

It is super common that an athlete can fit on two sizes of bikes. It's true for you, for me, for prolly 85% of the population. I like it when there's a clear direction in which to lean, but in your case both options are VERY good - you could break the tie with color choice: as I type this the Canyon USA has the Stealth color (black) in size Medium (but not small) and the Oahu Blue in size Small (but not medium). If I were forced to pick one over the other I'd have you get the small so there'd be greater range on the pad height - knowing that if the cockpit were to cramped it would be an easy solve with the 90mm stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian -- Does it look like I need the longer stem for my Speedmax SLX (size M, standard 65mm? stem)? Should I actually have ordered a size Large? See photo.

I'm on a size Medium with aerobars fully extended (i.e., they are slightly recessed into the armpad clamps, actually). Some more details on my fit numbers are:
Saddle height: 767, setback -19mm
Arm pad stack: 639
Arm pad reach: 460
Crank length: 165 (I switch the crank to 165 from the stock 175)

I feel like I need to get longer, but at the same time, I feel like my weight is already WAY out over the front wheel, which has me wondering if I should have gone with a Larger, though standover height would be a concern (860 mm inseam). As you can see I am using the Canyon angle brackets, and I also have adapters to make the aerobars wider.

Please let me know if you need anything else.
Last edited by: wintershade: Apr 10, 19 17:12
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ian, Thank you very much for such detailed answer!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hi Ian -- Does it look like I need the longer stem for my Speedmax SLX (size M, standard 65mm? stem)? Should I actually have ordered a size Large? See photo.

I'm on a size Medium with aerobars fully extended (i.e., they are slightly recessed into the armpad clamps, actually). Some more details on my fit numbers are:
Saddle height: 767, setback -19mm
Arm pad stack: 639
Arm pad reach: 460
Crank length: 165 (I switch the crank to 165 from the stock 175)

I feel like I need to get longer, but at the same time, I feel like my weight is already WAY out over the front wheel, which has me wondering if I should have gone with a Larger, though standover height would be a concern (860 mm inseam). As you can see I am using the Canyon angle brackets, and I also have adapters to make the aerobars wider.

Wintershade,

Let me start with this.... I read your "frustration" post and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this drama. Bike fitting is a combo of art, science, and math and it takes time to get learn how to fit and then it demands that a fitter keep up with all the industry changes: terminology, saddles, an understanding of crank length, bike design, etc. etc. etc. And that is just for road. And's road fitting is f*cking easy in my opinion - tri is a magnitude harder. There are many of us who are good/great at fitting the triathlon position, some have been recommended, some have already weighed in on your post, we want to help you solve.

Let's start with this note of calming comfort - I'm 99% certain you are on the right sized bike. That bike is sexy as hell and you're close enough to the right position that I think we can get there rather quickly.

Can you confirm something for me...your bike, it's a 2018 Canyon Speedmax SLX right? I'm pretty certain of that based on the graphics. The thing that's confusing me is that you're on a medium and your Pad Reach is 460. The shortest the 2018 SLX Medium goes to is 462. Wait, are you measuring your Pad Reach to the rear of the pad??? The "Canyon Way" is to the center of the pad so your current pad reach is really 510ish? The pad's are roughly 100mm across, so the rear to mid point is ~50mm so if we add 50mm to 460 we get 510. I want to confirm those bits first - year & where pad x is being measured to to get 460.

Also, your "using adapters to make aerobars wider" - do you mean the TSP (Team Switch Plate) that are designed to move the pads beyond the capabilities of the stock arm pad mounts (and by "move beyond" I mean farther forward or farther back of the stock mounts). If you're unsure - pull the velcro pad off both arm cups - then unbolt one of the cups and leave the other bolted in place - then post a pic here on this thread taken looking straight down at the bars.

This is super important to clarify because you absolutely need a longer cockpit but the expectation here is that the medium can move out to a Pad X Center of 516 with the short stem so first I need to figure out where you are before I make a suggesting on how we're going to get longer.

I'm at home a ton this week and I'll be looking for your reply. Stay with me on this, let's get it solved.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:

Quote:

Ian.
I was last fitted (FIST) at the end of 2010. I haven't changed my fit since then. (other than replacing my saddle - Specialized Sitero)
I do think I could now go lower, but I am unsure by how much. Current dimensions on the bike - 2011 Argon18 E112

Pad Stack 735
Pad Reach (centre) 449
Saddle Setback (to nose) 65
Drop - 70

These were pulled off the current bike, but I won't claim they are fully accurate.
Picture in use attached.... UCI legal, which is a requirement, and still needs to allow me to run after

Any chance I might fit on either of the current Canyons?


Cape_Horn,

Short, Quick Answer: if you're going to stay with Pad Stack of 735 and Pad Reach of 449 then you'd need to be on the Canyon Speedmax CF in a size large but you'd need a shorter stem than the one that comes stock on the large. But, that set up would leave you in this position which I'm not happy about so let's go to the longer answer for as it's a far better one.

Longer, More Valued Answer: Everything about pic says "up and back" to me. That bike you're on has a seat angle of 76 degrees and you're on a road saddle (comfort is found rearward) so your hips are behind the bottom bracket in a such a way that it's forcing your cockpit to be short and your arm pads to be high - that's confirmed in the fact that you've got the tallest 3D headset top cap thingy + what looks like another 20mm of spacer + a +6 degree stem. Now, what might save this whole position is the new saddle because that new saddle might allow you to sit farther forward and give you the position your need/deserve but the question is - did the new saddle result in you flipping that stem (-6 degree), stripping out that 20mm spacer, maybe even going to the shorter/shortest 3D top cap, and moving the pads out or going to a longer stem? If, not - if you have the same front end set up with then new saddle then not much has changed.

You can be UCI legal and be in a comfortable (top priority), powerful (second priority), and slippery (third priority). A better position on the this bike will help you get there....also, a more modern bike with better geometry will help you get there.

I'd like three things from you if you can get 'em for me: 1) where do you live (city). 2) I want your overall height and 3) I'd like your saddle height measured from the center of the bottom bracket to the top of your saddle in the middlish. Get back to me with that and let's continue this discussion. #1 is cause if one of the fitters on "my list" is near you then I'm going to urge you to go see them. #2 & #3 are in case you are too far from a great fitter then I want to propose a Pad Y/Pad X that is far closer to where you could be.

Ian

Cheers Ian.

When I swapped seats, I didn't change any of the rest of the fit, other than moving the seat a little to change the contact point compared with the original aspideTT. I have thought about dropping the pads previously, but haven't yet (call me slack). - I think I should be able to drop down to the bar level without issues, I was also thinking about bringing the seat forward to 5cm behind the BB, and then raising it the extra few mm that would entail, and seeing if I could drop the bars a little more after that. (That issue of not having a fit bike handy, and not trusting my wrenching skills with a headset.) - My other concern was core strength - but that is something I am still working on (much better now than 9 years ago when I first grabbed a TT bike)

Currently residing in Canberra, ACT, Australia, so a little far away from most fitters.
Height - 177.5cm
(Inseam 84cm)

Saddle height - 772mm from BB to middle centre of the seat.

As always, Thankyou for your time.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
Hi Ian -- Does it look like I need the longer stem for my Speedmax SLX (size M, standard 65mm? stem)? Should I actually have ordered a size Large? See photo.

I'm on a size Medium with aerobars fully extended (i.e., they are slightly recessed into the armpad clamps, actually). Some more details on my fit numbers are:
Saddle height: 767, setback -19mm
Arm pad stack: 639
Arm pad reach: 460
Crank length: 165 (I switch the crank to 165 from the stock 175)

I feel like I need to get longer, but at the same time, I feel like my weight is already WAY out over the front wheel, which has me wondering if I should have gone with a Larger, though standover height would be a concern (860 mm inseam). As you can see I am using the Canyon angle brackets, and I also have adapters to make the aerobars wider.


Wintershade,

Let me start with this.... I read your "frustration" post and I'm so sorry you're dealing with this drama. Bike fitting is a combo of art, science, and math and it takes time to get learn how to fit and then it demands that a fitter keep up with all the industry changes: terminology, saddles, an understanding of crank length, bike design, etc. etc. etc. And that is just for road. And's road fitting is f*cking easy in my opinion - tri is a magnitude harder. There are many of us who are good/great at fitting the triathlon position, some have been recommended, some have already weighed in on your post, we want to help you solve.

Let's start with this note of calming comfort - I'm 99% certain you are on the right sized bike. That bike is sexy as hell and you're close enough to the right position that I think we can get there rather quickly.

Can you confirm something for me...your bike, it's a 2018 Canyon Speedmax SLX right? I'm pretty certain of that based on the graphics. The thing that's confusing me is that you're on a medium and your Pad Reach is 460. The shortest the 2018 SLX Medium goes to is 462. Wait, are you measuring your Pad Reach to the rear of the pad??? The "Canyon Way" is to the center of the pad so your current pad reach is really 510ish? The pad's are roughly 100mm across, so the rear to mid point is ~50mm so if we add 50mm to 460 we get 510. I want to confirm those bits first - year & where pad x is being measured to to get 460.

Also, your "using adapters to make aerobars wider" - do you mean the TSP (Team Switch Plate) that are designed to move the pads beyond the capabilities of the stock arm pad mounts (and by "move beyond" I mean farther forward or farther back of the stock mounts). If you're unsure - pull the velcro pad off both arm cups - then unbolt one of the cups and leave the other bolted in place - then post a pic here on this thread taken looking straight down at the bars.

This is super important to clarify because you absolutely need a longer cockpit but the expectation here is that the medium can move out to a Pad X Center of 516 with the short stem so first I need to figure out where you are before I make a suggesting on how we're going to get longer.

I'm at home a ton this week and I'll be looking for your reply. Stay with me on this, let's get it solved.

Ian

Thanks Ian -- I really appreciate your response and willingness to help me get situated on my Speedmax. My main goal is to make sure it's the right frame and that I have the right cockpit accessories for when I eventually find time to visit Jim M, but it might be a while before I can see him so getting better situated beforehand would be great.

To answer your questions: yes, I'm on a 2018 Speedmax SLX. The only component I've changed is the crank to 165mm, to open up my hips and help me get lower. For the front-end, I am using both the "Team Switch Plate" to extend my reach, the "Switchblade" spacer kit to widen the arm pads, and the "Angled Spacer Kit." Here is how I have my front-end spacers set up, from top to bottom. Big (1cm?) spacer, switchblades turned out to widen arm pads, another large spacer, the Angled spacer, then the Team Switch Plates (set up so pads are max distance away from me). My aerobars are fully extended (such that they are about 1cm recessed into the aerobar clamp). So as you can see, I'm really going to the extreme max (probably beyond recommended spec?) to get longer and wider.

Sounds like you think I need a longer stem? I think Canyon offers an 85mm stem, tough not sure how that would impact how the bento box and integrated hydration sit. I do also wonder if my saddle is too far forward and that's what's making me cramped and impacting weight distribution? My saddle is pretty much fully pushed forward. I generally find myself creeping to the nose of the saddle though and feel less powerful when I set further back on it.

In terms of your questions on some of my stack/reach numbers, I will just go ahead and email you my full Retul fit report as well as body measurements for a recently made custom road bike. I suspect that will make things clearest.

Thanks again. I'm very grateful you and Canyon are doing this. This thread will help so many people.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [wintershade] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Wintershade,

Yeah, you need the longer stem. It's going to stretch you out 20mm - which will be a huge benefit for your position (comfort). If you need to micro adjust the cockpit once the stem is on then we can play with pad positioning.

Other notes:
Quote:
I do also wonder if my saddle is too far forward and that's what's making me cramped and impacting weight distribution? My saddle is pretty much fully pushed forward. I generally find myself creeping to the nose of the saddle though and feel less powerful when I set further back on it.

Your saddle is where it needs to be for you to be powerful. Saddle position (height and set back) is priority one in fitting and then we get the front comfy based on where the saddle needs to be. I don't want you creating a longer cockpit by sliding the saddle back that will rob you of the power you deserve.

As to your worry of weight distribution...you absolutely have more weight on the front wheel on your Speedmax than you do on your Ultimate. The triathlon position results in that and the road position puts more weight on the rear wheel. Get the longer stem, have it installed, and post another pick on this thread for me and let's see where we're at.

I want you to have confidence in where we're heading....
Look at the pic below - this is from Dan Empfield's (Slowman) article on orthodoxy (if you want to read the whole piece do it HERE). I've nearly destroyed his beautiful image with my quick/sloppy additions: the big yellow dot is where you are now (639x460). That's a bit outside the range of common positions (range defined by my drunken orange lines). The green dot is were you'll be with the longer stem - and that's inside the range. The longer stem will move you to where more people ride, move you towards all the pros ride, move you toward comfort.



Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian! This is incredibly helpful. I loved your graphic. Very cool. I'll reach out to Canyon to get the longer stem and accessories, and hopefully Jim can get me all set whenever we manage to get together. If work ever brings you to SF, please let me know!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi again Ian, thanks for your insight and thoughts. I ordered the CF in Large as your recommended and I've just taken delivery of it today. Looking forward to getting setup and taking it for a spin.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [icecubes] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
icecubes, STOKE!!! post pics! I wanna see!!!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
My fitter, Phil Casanta, recommended shorter cranks for my Speedmax CF SLX. The medium size comes with 175mm. I asked you about this at the Canyon 360 Lab event and you agreed.
Well, I finally saved enough pennies to buy some 170’s.
This is huge! Wow! I was amazed at how much better my new fit is.
Thanks to you and Phil!

Team Zoot So Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
My fitter, Phil Casanta, recommended shorter cranks for my Speedmax CF SLX. The medium size comes with 175mm. I asked you about this at the Canyon 360 Lab event and you agreed.
Well, I finally saved enough pennies to buy some 170’s.
This is huge! Wow! I was amazed at how much better my new fit is.
Thanks to you and Phil!

Karl,

Thanks for this note. I'm so glad you happy with the choice and it's no surprise at all. It should stand as yet another testament to those who are still hung up on the "but I gotta have a longer lever to make more power" belief.

A quick note on Phil and his wife Rachel - there are folks who make up the foundation of our sport and they are two. I hear that their shop, HyperCat Racing is going to get a face lift and maybe a new name. I'm excited to see their next chapter.

You and I will probably cross paths soon and I look forward to that.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Actually they were putting the new Hypercat sign up at the shop yesterday.
And yes, great people and good for our sport.

Team Zoot So Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi. Thanks for help.

From RETUL on 56 P5 (2 spacers left on stem):

Stack: 638
Reach: 450 (back of pad)
Saddle height/setback: 794/-23
Crank: 170
Armpad width: 189
Grip width: 76
6"1'
Inseam: 33.5

Many thanks.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [maninthearena] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Stack: 638
Reach: 450 (back of pad)
Saddle height/setback: 794/-23
Crank: 170
Armpad width: 189
Grip width: 76
6"1'
Inseam: 33.5

maninthearena,

I'm gonna prescribe this with a Pad Stack of 638 and a Pad Reach of 500 (Pad X at mid pad as the Speedmax uses that spot). You, like so many of us, could fit on two different sizes of the Canyon Speedmax SLX.

It could be a Medium with the short stem, pads bolted down dead center, and either 45mm of arm pad pedestal (yields a Pad Y of 640) or 40mm of spacer (for 635).
---or---
It could be a Large with the short stem, pads the furthest back that can go in the stock mounts, either 10mm of arm pad pedestal (yields a Pad Y of 640) or 5mm of arm pad pedestal (for 635).

It's cool to fit on two different bikes because availability has been an issue in the past so if only one is there - grab it.

I want you to have the info and all my thoughts so you can add those to what you know about yourself in the purchase process. I think a Pad Y of 638 is pretty darn low - especially for somebody as leggy as you are. I suspect you have a arm pad drop of something near 150mm. If cervical comfort becomes an issue or you want more safety in lookin' up the road easier you'll want to come up to 640 or 645 in your Pad Y (or even more - I would think a pad drop of 95 is often acceptable and that's close to a 658 Pad Stack for you) ....the medium maxes out at a Pad Y of 650 and you have to acquire an aftermarket item called "high stack flat spring" to get past 640. Because of that I would be tempted to recommend the Large over the medium...AND....do not be concerned by the Pad X in the Large being "the furthest back they can go" - Canyon has another aftermarket item called a TSP that can bring the pads back another 30mm if you ever need more range in shortening the cockpit more than the stock mounts will allow.

Get back to me if you have more questions.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Great thank you. Very clear.

Due to availability they have CF in L but no SLX in L at the moment. I’m not married to the idea of full integration and find it a true PITA for adjustability and just wonder if the geo is the same so that your specs and write up would be the same across model ranges?

I had an easy to fiddle with 58 P2 prior (loved it...miss it) and liken it the CF, and despite enjoying the P5 wouldn’t mind the change back to an easier to play with version since I consider, maybe incorrectly, the SLX to be more like my P5 (full integration, most everything is hidden etc). If that is a bad comparison surely let me know. Bottom line for sizing and if that’s the route I go, same as what you mention in the other post..M or L but lean towards L?

Thanks again.
Last edited by: maninthearena: Apr 17, 19 21:43
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello,
I am looking for a new bike and have my eyes on a Trek SC and Canyon SLX.
I have a BMC TM01 in ML with stack 515 reach 418 (long and low) and don´t know if the canyon is off. I think of a size M but to me the S is to small and M to big.
Am I completely off?

Best Regards
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Lind] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello Ian,

I'm planning to buy a speedmax CF.
I did a fit on my road bike recently, but my bikefitter didn't have a dynamic bike to give me reach and stack value for a TT bike.

Can you help me decided wich size I should buy regarding the fit of my road bike and my size, height, ..?

https://www.casimages.com/...33201528795.png.html
https://www.casimages.com/...33201624928.jpg.html

I though the M size will be great. Then I will make a bike fit to put me on..

Thank you,

Arthur
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello Ian

Thank you for your help, I'm leaning towards the SLX not sure if the CF will work for me what do you think?

Stack 641mm
Reach 558mm

Height 6'4"

I have been riding the original P3C for 13 years.

Thanks,

Eric

Eric - "Train Smart, Race Smart, Finish Strong"
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks, here I go:

Got this fittig on a ST roadshow:

Pad x:465
Pad y: 645

Thanks!
T


ianpeace wrote:
Howdy Y’all,

Ian Murray here - fit instructor at both the Slowtwitch F.I.S.T. bike fit school and at the Guru Academy.

I’ve created this thread in a Canyon endorsed capacity to help prescribe the proper Speedmax for you: not just the size of bike, but the front-end configuration as well. That means the length of stem, shape of base bar, amount of arm pad pedestal, etc. to make the Canyon you buy the best it can be.

I’m not the one to answer questions about availability, nor do all manner of customer service, handle warranty issues, nor be a suggestion box about colors and whatnot – but I can and will deliver on fit. I’m not the best guy to this by the way. David (cyclenutnz) is better. Dan (slowman) is better too, but both those guys are too damn busy, so the task has fallen to me – and, frankly, I’m stoked. At the 2017 Kona Expo, I did nearly 40 Canyon Speedmax Sizing fits in 2 days and it was a joy.

If you are looking to buy a Canyon Speedmax and you want to make sure you get the right size, touch base right here on this thread. Best practices are for you to post your Pad Y, Pad X (AKA Pad Stack, Pad Reach) and I will prescribe the proper Speedmax for you. If you don’t know your Pad Y & Pad X then let me assist you in identifying those coordinates.

Happy to help, Ian
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [maninthearena] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 

maninthearena,

Yes, in Speedmax CF you'd be a large as well. It's harder for me to prescribe the exact position of the front end with the CF but I can tell you that the 90mm stem that comes stock will be perfect. The pads will be pulled back a bit but not all the way and you'll want ~15mm of pads under the stem.

There are pluses and minuses in both the super bikes and the mortal bikes. I respect your decision to stay mortal and keep adjustments/travel/repair etc easy.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Lind] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I have a BMC TM01 in ML with stack 515 reach 418 (long and low) and don´t know if the canyon is off. I think of a size M but to me the S is to small and M to big. Am I completely off?

Lind,
You are 100% on right in saying your current bike's Stack is 515 and Reach is 418. I can't prescribe a Canyon Speedmax SLX or any super-bike with Stack and Reach. I need Pad Y and Pad X....and, okay, if I must I'll refer to those numbers as Pad Stack and Pad Reach.

So, here's what I'd like to ask of you..... if you really like your current position on your current bike and you want to use that position to help spec your new ride then follow the instructions below to measure the Pad Y and Pad X off of your current bike. If that- for whatever reason - isn't possible then get back to me with your overall height and seat height and I can get close off of that.

What I'd ask you to do is take your existing bike, get it pretty darn level (kitchen floor maybe - resting against the cabinets so straight up and down that it's nearly tipping over). Then, drop a plumb line (even if this is makeshift, like tying a string to a salt shaker) off the back of your arm pad (front wheel has to be straight in-line with frame) so it's nearly touching the floor. Then measure the gap between that string and the center of your bottom bracket. That's Pad X to rear of pad. Then do it again this time dangling the plumb line from the front of the pad. I want both those numbers. Then - and this one I fear is a two person job, but maybe not - put one end of a level on top of the arm pad and hold the other end (or middle) of the level right beside the nose of saddle. Then measure from the base of that level down to the center of the bottom bracket - that's your Pad Y.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [P3aceFrog] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hello Ian,
I'm planning to buy a speedmax CF.
I did a fit on my road bike recently, but my bikefitter didn't have a dynamic bike to give me reach and stack value for a TT bike.
Can you help me decided wich size I should buy regarding the fit of my road bike and my size, height, ..?

Arthur,
You've given me some good elements with which to work. I appreciate that. I think your Pad Y is very close to 625 and your Pad X is about 482. Based on that....

Canyon Speedmax CF size Medium. That bike comes stock with an 80mm stem and it'll be perfect for you. I think the pads should be 2 holes forward of the furthest-back-they-can-go position, and should have ~15mm of spacer under the stem.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Awesome. Thank you again.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ejchet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Hello Ian
Thank you for your help, I'm leaning towards the SLX not sure if the CF will work for me what do you think?
Stack 641mm
Reach 558mm


Eric, I very much respect anyone who gets 13 years of use out of a bike, and with the way bicycle tech has been moving along I think you're due for a new ride. I'm trusting you on these numbers to be your Pad Y 641, Pad X 558 (that's lower and longer than I'd expect from a guy of your height).

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX you're a Large with a long stem*, pads back just one hole forward of the all-the-way-back position, and only 10mm of arm pad pedestal. *The long stem is not stock on the this bike the short stem is, and the short will max out with a Pad X of 552. There's lots of room to go up of course there will be 45mm of pedestal available to you in the box.

The CF just doesn't work as well as the SLX for you. You'd need a Large for your Pad Y (XL would be too tall). But the Large is a bit short, maxing out a 513 (even the XL maxes out at 533). If you had to make it work you'd get the XL and bring in an off brand stem that was -17deg and 110mm long. It could be done but, again - SLX!!!

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [trihugger] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Got this fittig on a ST roadshow:
Pad x:465
Pad y: 645

Trihugger, These numbers came out of an ST Roadshow....well then I know they're shite!


Which show? When? It was probably either Dan or me (I? help grammar police) who did it!!!

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX it'll be a size Medium with the short stem that comes stock with the bike but you'll need two after-market items: the TSP (to bring the cockpit just a hair shorter than the stock mounts will allow) and a High Stack Flat Spring (to just lift the arm pads 5mm higher than the 45mm of pedestal will allow). The good news is that if your position lowers or lengthens at all you'll have room to move.

For the Canyon Speedmax CF then it's a size small with all the stock bits that come and it and you'll fit perfectly.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian,

Those are my numbers, checked twice. I ride the P3C without any spacers I'm long an low, I have a 36" inseam so that leaves a tall torso I keep out of the wind.

I want the SLX now when my wife says can't you get the CF, I have a good excuse I don't fit.

When you order the SLX what stem does it come with or do I have the choice?

Thank you for your help.

Eric

Eric - "Train Smart, Race Smart, Finish Strong"
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ejchet] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bike will come with short stem, you can't ask for it to be built with the long stem, you have to order that separately. But yes the truth wins out for your wife - the CF won't work for you, it has to be the SLX.

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Arthur,
You've given me some good elements with which to work. I appreciate that. I think your Pad Y is very close to 625 and your Pad X is about 482. Based on that....

Canyon Speedmax CF size Medium. That bike comes stock with an 80mm stem and it'll be perfect for you. I think the pads should be 2 holes forward of the furthest-back-they-can-go position, and should have ~15mm of spacer under the stem.

Ian

Thank you for the answer.
When you say I should have 15mm of spacer, it's mean that I need to remove the stock 25mm spacer and put a 15mm instead ? Or just put 15mm at the top of the stock 25mm one ? That's just to know if I need to buy with the bike the small bentobox instead of the big one to be fluch with the steam.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [P3aceFrog] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Thank you for the answer.
When you say I should have 15mm of spacer, it's mean that I need to remove the stock 25mm spacer and put a 15mm instead ? Or just put 15mm at the top of the stock 25mm one ? That's just to know if I need to buy with the bike the small bentobox instead of the big one to be fluch with the steam.

Arthur,

The Pad Y range on the Medium is 605-692. I'm assuming your Pad Y will be 625. If the lowest the bike will go is 605 (slammed) then you'll likely be 20mm up from that. You can "come up" either with spacers under the stem (lifts the whole front end as one) or with aerobar spacers (stem and base stay down, aerobar rises).

There are a couple factors involved in this situation: 1) I prioritize fit above all else. That's not true for everybody - some folks prioritize aesthetic above all else, some folks prioritize aero-ness above all else. I will never judge any of that because I'm a bit of a snob in a few places in life so I complete get that approach. 2) I'm using a formula to guess at your Pad Y/X and I could easily be 5-7mm off.

I hope the bento levels flush with the stem - that looks super cool. Moreover I hope you'll play with the arm pad elevation to find the spot that is 100% perfect for you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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I was asking because I don't know if the stack 605-692 is with or without the 25mm spacer under the steam the bike have. I read somewhere that we can remove it but I'm not sure. That was I was asking if when you said I need 15mm spacer is with or without the 25 mm one. But I guess it's without :)

Thank for answer and sorry if I'm not very clear, I'm not fluent in English for the moment
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian, I've just taken deliver of a CF 7.0 in size medium and am thinking it may be too big. I have some data to go off but it doesn't seem to be the traditional "Pad X / Y" I see used in this thread. These are notes from a bike fitting for a road bike with aerobars that was slightly cramped (thighs hitting torso when on aero bars) but the saddle height seemed to work well.

saddle height = 76.4cm
tip of saddle to steer tube = 40cm
tip of saddle to brakes = 67.1cm
tip of saddle to aero bar shifters = 76.2cm

I've got the saddle as low as I think it can go, but am measuring it at 74cm to the center of the bottom bracket


Here is where I've got the saddle, can it go down lower safely? I presume the 0 on the back indicates the safe minimum height, but there is also a line with the text "Max insert length without bottle holder" and I'm thinking maybe that is the safe min?



And the zero I was referencing


I am just barely able to reach the ground when on the saddle, it seems higher than my old bike despite the (according to fitter's measurements) shorter saddle height


And finally here is a picture of me clipped in at the top and bottom of the pedal stroke



Am I off in thinking a small may be a better fit? Feels like if this is the correct fit, there is no wiggle room smaller. Thanks!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [swimbikejon] [ In reply to ]
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swimbikejon,

I want to give you a comprehensive answer. How tall are you?

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ah yes that might help haha. I am 179cm tall and have a roughly 84cm inseam measured with a book against a wall at saddle height to the floor.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [swimbikejon] [ In reply to ]
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swimbikejon,

Let's start with a bunch of positive stuff: the size Medium CF is the right bike for you. I think your Pad Y is roughly 627 and that falls nicely into the range of the Pad Y on the Medium (605-692). I think your Pad X is roughly 483 and that's right for the Medium range as well (467-492) - side note here, the 483 cannot be achieved on a Small or a Large. Also, your seat height of 764 fits nicely in the Medium range (720-870). You got a blue one - damn that's a beautiful bike!!!!

So, let's have a complete conversation on seat height...
  • Looking at that last pic of you with your left leg at the bottom. Your seat height looks a bit high to me - even though in that static image your heel is dipping more than I bet it would when you are riding for real - accounting for that I still think it's too high. It's weird because in the pic above, where your right leg is at the bottom, your seat height looks a bit better to me even though it's obscured. Point is, your close, just a hair high.
  • I'm not sure that your fitter measured the road seat height the exact same way you're measuring this bike - that could be a factor.
  • Being able to barely touch the ground while on the saddle is normal.
  • And....this is the biggie....seat height is dependent upon crank length (more on that in the "fixes" bit at the bottom)
Generally, when we worry about seat post insertion it's because there is too little in the frame. That's not your situation, you've got a ton of post in the frame - in fact, us fitters are often having to cut posts shorter to achieve desired saddle heights. In this case we're worried about the amount of post in the frame because of the bottle holder - you're going to have to ignore that for now, proper seat height trumps bottle mount capabilities - my hope is you can still do that even with the right seat height. Also, ignore the 0 and the 1 and the lines on the back of the post - those are simply reference guides.


Fixes: some of these below are a bit mandatory and some are suggestions...You were probably gonna do all this stuff already but didn't because you were worried you were going to send it back. Do not send it back, this is the right bike for you.
  • Rotate the base bar so that it's level, or ever so slightly up. Then you can tweak the aerobars to be flat, pointed down (I doubt it), or pointed up a bit more, AKA "tilted" - all the rage right now and justifiably so.
  • I'm loathed to say this but I worry that bike has really long cranks on it - like 175s. Ugg. It's doable with those but not optimal. My guess is that at your height you should probably be on 160s (165max). I bring this up now because the bike hasn't been ridden and, if you're able, pull 'em while they are new, sell 'em as "never ridden" and go and buy a set of shorter cranks. And since you're doing that and I'm just gonna keep acting like you have a money tree in bloom in your back yard- get power on your cranks (PM me we can talk discount code on a set of shorter ones). Lastly on this subject, when we go to shorter cranks, seat height goes up the same amount that the crank got shorter - seems, on it's face, as backwards after some visualization and gesturing we all realize that's the truth.
  • If you've got a chain whip and lock ring tool remove that plastic spoke protector that's inside the cassette. If you don't own those tools rush to your LBS and tip them after they remove it for free in 75 seconds.
  • If you ride in the dark or dusk or dawn - ever- use a flashing red light on the rear and a white on the front and then you could consider removing the reflectors from the wheels (but your Honor, read the post, I said "he could consider removing the reflectors" not "remove the reflectors").
  • There's a hysterical Instagram account called Cat3Memes. They had a truthful post recently that said "I can tell everything about your personality by how you close your skewers". If you care about those who care about that make those things point toward the center of the bike (rear is perfect!).
  • I haven't seen you in aero but I'm certain the extensions will be too long. They'll need to be cut so that when you are in aero your elbows are either on the pads or just hanging off the bike and then your pinky/ring/middle fingers will have a firm grasp of the extension while your index and thumb are on the shifter ready to act. You don't want to have to let go of your hold on the aerobar and reach forward to make a shift and then come back to your hold spot.

Get back to me if you have questions.


Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Excellent feedback and I am so happy to hear that I won't be needing to box this beauty back up. Will PM you about those shorter cranks. Thank you for the thoughtful reply!
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hello Ian

My height is: 176 cm
Seatheight: 73,5 cm

Pad X to rear of PAD: 460
Pad X to front of PAD: 550
PAD Y: 470

Best Regards
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Lind] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
My height is: 176 cm
Seatheight: 73,5 cm

Pad X to rear of PAD: 460
Pad X to front of PAD: 550
PAD Y: 470

Lind,

Oooooh.... We're so close. I think you Pad X to center is 505. That's what you measured. It seems a hair longer that I would have predicted, but as you said you ride long - so let's use it as it seems logical/possible. The Pad Y (aka Pad Stack) cannot be 470. The frame stack is 515 and having pads 45mm below the top of the head-tube isn't possible on that bike or really any bike that I can imagine without some really crazy custom/funky alien freakish stem - and even then I'm not sure.

I'm gonna prescribe with a formula based off of other numbers you provided. I think your Pad Y is nearer to 616. And we're going with Pad X at 505...so, based on that....

You're a Medium on the Speedmax SLX. You'll use the short stem that comes stock on that bike with the arm pad mounted dead center and with 20mm (yielding a Pad Y of 615) or 25mm (yielding a Pad Y of 620) arm pad pedestal (all those bits come stock so you can choose). It's so nicely sweet in the center of that set up as you've got room to move up or down, shorter in cockpit or longer in cockpit to find perfection.

I heard you loud and clear when you said you ride low. And I think it's pretty easy to visualize that on your current bike with that fun and super smart "erector set" of a stem that it has. Keep in mind, on the Speedmax SLX medium, where I have you assumed at 616 in Pad Stack ..... you can strip out everything you'll be down to 595 in Pad Y and that's damn low.

But wait, let's say something obvious happens: "it's a typo and the Pad Y I measured is really 570, not 470" or "I remeasured and it's really 585" - okay then, the Small will work all the way down to a Pad Y of 565. And the small Speedmax SLX will still be there for you at a Pad X of 505 with the short stem and even if you want to ride longer than all that in the future you can get out as far as 550 with purchasing a few items from Canyon.

Okay, that was a lot of numbers thrown out there. If you need clarification on any of that - get back to me here.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Sorry of course you are right..pad y is 616.
So M it is.

Thanks a lot.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi There,

I am just in the middle of buying a Canyon Speedmax and we are trying to figure out the size, M or L. I am a pretty tall guy with a smaller torso, here are my measurements:

Height: 193cm
Inseam: 93cm
Torso: 66cm
Arm length: 64cm

I currently have a size M Merida Warp Tri 2015 (has sizes S M and L as well). I look a little bit big on the bike but seems to fit ok, I have posted a photo of myself as a reference, taken at IM African champs 2 weeks ago. I see points of improvement in position though, going for a more aggressive posiition.


My stack and reach are the following:
Armpad Stack: 647
Armpad Reach: 445
My reach is a little low, but I might be sitting a little bit too back on the bike. I see you might need a pad x and y. I am unfortunately away from my bike for like a week, but I can provide how I measured it, that might help:
My bike was standjng in front of the wall, facimg backwards to it. ( not touching, just close).
For the armpad stack that is irrelavant, but needed for the reach. the measuerements:
Stack: pady from floor - Bb y from floor = 95cm - 29.3cm = 647mm
Reach: padx from wall - bbx from wall= 127.5cm - 83.3cm= 442mm
Hope this helps

Inititally they wanted to give me an L but after all of the discussions and providing them my current stack and reach they changed their opinion to M. Based on the numbers it looks ok, it’s just weird that M would be my choice.

Would be happy for any input on my case.

Thanks and have a great day,
Daniel
Last edited by: zuller: Apr 24, 19 5:12
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [zuller] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Height: 193cm
Inseam: 93cm
Torso: 66cm
Arm length: 64cm
Armpad Stack: 647
Armpad Reach: 445
Thanks and have a great day,

Daniel,

Lots of good info here. If I had your seat height (center of BB to top of saddle mid rail) I'd be super confident. Also, I'm thinking you measured the Pad X to the back of the pad so I'm going to add 50mm to assume the middle.

Let's say for a moment that you wanted to recreate this position on a Canyon Speedmax SLX (Pad Y 647, Pad X 495). The Medium could do it but the max Pad Y on the Medium is 450 and that's with some aftermarket bits. I really think the Large is a better bet: Large Speedmax SLX, with a short stem + the aftermarket TSP and the pads all the way forward with that set up and then either 15mm (Pad Y of 645) or 20mm (Pad Y of 650) arm pad pedestal.

BUT HOLD ON....I don't think you should recreate this position. I'm quite certain that you should take the bars farther out front, elongate your cockpit, and run a Pad X that's closer to 515 or 520. That plus a little aerobar tilt and I just think you'd be more comfy. So that's a Large with a short stem, pads in the middle of the stock mounts (no TSP required) and then 15mm of arm pad pedestal.

Okay so....if you were thinking CF and not SLX get back to me. If the Pad Reach of 445 was to the middle of the pad get back to me. If you have questions get back to me. If I made all my assumptions correctly then buy the Large with confidence.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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ianpeace wrote:
If the Pad Reach of 445 was to the middle of the pad get back to me.

Hi Ian,

First of all I would like to tell you that what you are doing is so awesome and helpful couldn't appreciate more, big thumbs up!

Yup it's the SLX version, (8.0 2019)
So I unfortunately cannot measure my saddle height until next week, all I know is that the seattube is pushed up almost all the way, 5mm left to go, and have an ISM saddle. I just have an assumption that the saddle height could or should be around 82cm-s based on Greg Lemonds calculation (inseam * 0.883)
Now the padx was actually measured from the middle of the pad. Thats why I say that the armpad reach looks so small for a tall guy like me. The elbow degree is pretty comfortable as is, although as said I think I can and also should go more aggressive (qualified for 2019 Kona, so performance is priority, not just an all out comfortable ride).
This is the info that I finally got back from the girl I am talking to at canyon, might hold some useful info:

" Based on your current armpad stack and reach value I recommend to change to our frame size M with a short stem. You would also like to have adjustment possibilities to sit more aggressively and you will not have these with the frame size L

You will reach your current armpad stack on our frame size M with an additional high stack spring kit, but I it not necessary. The high stack spring kit will rise your armpad stack for 1 cm. The minimum armpad reach is 448 mm and can be adjust too 556 mm "

Thanks again Ian
Last edited by: zuller: Apr 26, 19 9:45
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Canyon Speedmax SLX (Pad Y 647, Pad X 495)


Are you really referring to the Pad Y and Pad X with these numbers (495-50 for reach)? Because they match my stack and reach numbers and getting a little confused.
In the meantime I got one more reply from canyon, but these are just numbers I think you are aware of
canyon wrote:

Stack Reach
Your current position 647 mm 445 mm
Possibilitys frame L 628 - 681 mm 498 - 552 mm
Possibility frame M 595 - 648 mm 475 - 529 mm


Are you sure I would be more comfortable if we just increase the reach? Wouldn’t my arm become too stretched out? The current bendature of my arm looks to be good, never felt uncomfortable, although I might be wrong and could be more comfy. Or by tilting the aerobar we keep the arm in a good position? Never really thought of tilting it to be honest, guess that doesn’t really hurt the aerodynamics. Had a quick check at the top 15 kona male bike photos and yeah, my aerobars are super flat compare to them so could be something worth doing

But what I still think is that I could go a little bit more agressive, more aero. Wouldn’t that mean a decrease of the stack and at the same time an increase in reach? Would the size L allow such and adjustment in stack (if it is something we want ofcourse)

Thanks again,
Daniel
Last edited by: zuller: Apr 27, 19 2:04
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [zuller] [ In reply to ]
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Daniel,

It's good we're still working on this. Let's keep after it; we'll both probably learn something and we'll make the best assessment of your new bike.

You wrote...
Quote:
Are you really referring to the Pad Y and Pad X with these numbers (495-50 for reach)? Because they match my stack and reach numbers and getting a little confused.
I did a search for geometry for your bike (2015 Merida Warp Tri) and found this page HERE. They don't list a specific medium using t-shirt size terminology but they list only three sizes: a 51, 54, 57. And they show this as the frame Stack and Reach for those sizes:


In post #369 of this thread (the one with pics of you on the bike) you gave me your arm pad stack of 647 and an arm pad reach to center of 445.


It's possible that your frame reach (Reach) and your Pad Reach (Pad X) are similar: I don't think this image of you is dead-on profile but it's pretty close. The yellow line indicates frame reach (center of the head tube). The red line is Pad Reach to the rear of the pad (Pad Xr) and the green line is Pad Reach to the middle of the pad (Pad Xm). Because the stem is short (common/logical) and the pads are set behind the base bar - frame reach and the pad reach are VERY close to the same number. And that could explain how the geometry chart here says frame reach of 447 (for the 57cm bike).




In the photo below the frame stack is in yellow (top of the head tube) and it's well below the Pad Stack (Pad Y) in red so those numbers are no where near the same: geometry chart for the large says frame stack of 589 but you measured 647 for pad stack and that seems logical. So....Do I have the wrong year of Merida? Do I have the wrong model of Merida? Is the chart I found wrong? Are you and I confusing Stack and Reach with Pad Stack and Pad Reach? Where are we getting off track?


Quote:
Are you sure I would be more comfortable if we just increase the reach?
NO- emphatically NO - I'm not sure of anything but this: The best way to purchase the right bike is via a pre-fit on a dynamic fit bike with an educated, experience fitter (that's #1). The next best way to purchase a bike is by taking accurate measurements of an existing bike with a good position and using those to purchase (that's #2 and it's what we're doing). There are two more levels below this but let's ignore them. You're comfortable now, that's the most important thing. We should celebrate that.

Quote:
But what I still think is that I could go a little bit more aggressive, more aero.
I'm pretty sure that by "aggressive" you mean lower in arm pad elevation (lower in drop). Firstly, lower is not necessarily more areo - sometimes is, sometimes it isn't. You'd have to be in the wind tunnel or some facsimile to know for sure. Also, if you do go lower than this you are most certainly going to need shorter cranks: pic below, a hip angle is created (albeit poorly in my drawing) in red and hip impingement is at risk at the spot indicated with lame yellow arrow.


So, I can still act on prescribing your Speedmax SLX purchase and the best option between the size Medium and the size Large but first I want to...
  • make sure I'm clear on the Pad Stack and Pad Reach of your bike - vs possible confusion over frame stack and frame reach noted above
  • give you time to reflect on where you stand with these statements: "I want to exactly replicate my Merida position on my new Canyon" versus "If I thought I might move in some direction different from my Merida position I can see myself moving....where? lower in the front end? longer in the front end? higher in the front end?" I need to have a sense of this because you are probably gonna be near the limit of the bike (medium or large) in some direction so I want make sure it can satisfy you and I will know that once we confirm your Pad Stack and Pad Reach of the Merida.

Eager to hear...
Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian, Thanks for offering this help. I’ve been drooling over Canyons since before they were offered in the US. I’ve been away from the sport for a bit, but am excited to be getting back in. Below are the coordinates from my last fit. It was on a L ‘10 QR CD.01 - I’m 6’4” with a long torso and (relatively) short legs. Also, since we’re buying direct, and it looks like I’ll be a L, can you substitute 170 cranks for 175? Or do you really have to take delivery on the 175’s then replace? (I know that’s not you’re thing, but was hoping you’d know)

Thanks so much for your help!

Arm pad Y: 698
Arm pad X: 508
Saddle height: 839
Saddle setback: -26 Angle: -3
Saddle: Cobb 55 JOF
Crank: 170
Effective seat tube angle: 79 deg
Grip width: 96
Arm Pad width: 196
Grip reach: 916 drop: -67 Angle: 29 deg

--------------------------------------------------------

It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .
Last edited by: type-B: Apr 28, 19 13:27
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Ian,

ianpeace wrote:
Do I have the wrong year of Merida? Do I have the wrong model of Merida? Is the chart I found wrong? Are you and I confusing Stack and Reach with Pad Stack and Pad Reach? Where are we getting off track?


The reason why these don’t match is because I am sitting the on the size M (54) of the bike but you were checking the numbers of size L if I see it correctly. And looking at the numbers and your detailed analysis the numbers match for that size (slightly larger pad reach, much larger pad stack).

Maybe just a background on how my current fit evolved. The bike was bought second hand, basically was just thrown up on the internet, size M so lets give it a try. We went there with my coach, had a quick sit on it, he said we should be able to fit you on this. Bought it and had a professional camera based bike fit done.
So even for this model I can imagine that L would also have worked fine, but there were no other options besides M. I do think that my current fit is not “my ultimate fit” and there is room to wiggle here and there and I am open for everything basically (I do get minor discomfort in my lower back after a couple of hours in the saddle for example, but with training it does get better). This will be the first bike which I am explicitly choosing because this is what I want and not just the bike that came across and can afford it and should fit.

My main goal is to have an aerodynamicaly sound position that is still of course maintainable on an Ironman which I might or might not already have. I will also most certainly go for a bikefit once I receive the Canyon. The bikefit in the end I got for the Merida was what they suggested. And in the current circumstances I think what you can and would suggest based on your experience and the information at hand on fit and adjustments to my current position I think should be pretty solid and on target. We are already getting way more things done prior a purchase then I did so far.

So what I have now is perhaps a good basis which is open for changes in my opinion and definitely not something dead on perfect. Might not be something we don’t even want to reproduce. Main things I have in mind:
- I am open for your suggestion on the reach and tilting the aerobar, looking at pro atheletes positions I am pretty flat compared to them with my arm. I always did have a fealing that I am a little bit slipping forwards on the pad which I would think gets fixed as well with the tilt.
If I saw correctly somewhere on the net, the new cockpit can have a tilt of 0 or 7 degrees, so I guess 7 would be an option. And what type of bars would make sense in by your opinion? At first I would say the J bend similir to my current one, but then you have the simple S bend, lazy S bend, J bend, L bend...
- with more aggressive I was thinking that I could have a more flat back, which would in my opinion decrease the pad stack and increase the reach as well, but if a hip impingement is at risk then it might not be worth it. I currently have a 175mm crank length, 172.5 on my roadie, don’t really feel a difference (I see pros tend to have around 170 nowadays). Would it make sense to ask for a smaller than 175? No preferences at the mo. This is just something that I though about looking at race photos and wasn’t explicitly discussed with anyone so far.
- I am also not sure if I am not sitting too backwards with the saddle and could be pushed a little bit forward, increasing reach again. My short reach to me just somehow doesn’t make sense in general (measured it multiple times), looking at everyones numbers here in the forum compared to their measurements. I am not that disproportionate based on my measurements and my hip isn’t stiff either, I can go pretty deep down with my legs stretched out (can easily reach the floor). I really have a feeling that padx and pady came to be from the fact that I needed to get fitted on an available bike and not choosing the right one for me in the first place. I would also be curious to here what numbers you would would cookup without knowing my current padx/pady, if this is even possible.
- And practically any other adjustment which you see fit to do.

What I have in mind currently based on this forum and thinking so many days on the whole thing in general:
size L with a short stem, probably a TSP, minimal spacers (no idea on basebar type, if it makes a dif, was thinking of flat since thats what I have now), rotating the aerobars and pads upwards, maybe a size 172.5 crank length. And with this setup I would have the chance to get a pretty darn good setup after visiting a bike fit.
But of course I might be wrong.

Thanks a bunch Ian,
Daniel
Last edited by: zuller: May 1, 19 5:41
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Ian- I'm not super happy with my current position on my CF SLX. I can shoot out my coordinates but I'd rather get some recommendations for fitters in the Midwest that I could go to and that also would have the front end parts (or could get them) that I may need or don't have. I live in Kansas City but would be willing to travel for a recommended fit. Thanks.
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Ian,

I'm glad to have come across this thread, really appreciate all the advice and help you're giving. I recently purchased a Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0 so I'm interested in your recommendations around fit. I had a bike fit for my old roadie recently before deciding to invest in the Canyon so would like to tweak my position as much as possible before getting a professional fit. I used the PPS and it recommended me a Small, which was slightly weird as I'm 5'11 but it explained it is due to my short legs (Inseam 79cm). I think the fit is okay but definitely could be more comfortable.

Pad stack y: 680
Pad stack x: 470 (back of pad 420)
Seat height: 735

(This is from my Felt AR4 2013 w/Deda aerobars)

Any suggestions are welcome. I have a few photo's I could attach if they help.

Thanks!
Last edited by: Jogabonito92: May 6, 19 4:58
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Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [type-B] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Hi Ian, Thanks for offering this help. I’ve been drooling over Canyons since before they were offered in the US. I’ve been away from the sport for a bit, but am excited to be getting back in. Below are the coordinates from my last fit

Thanks so much for your help!

Arm pad Y: 698
Arm pad X: 508

Type-B,

If you're wanting a Canyon Speedmax SLX Then I have concern....The SLX is a long and low bike and the tallest the Pad Y goes on that specific bike is 685. That's 14mm lower than you currently ride - not out of the question but a concern of mine - based on that last fit you had. The Pad X of 508 is no problem.

If you're wanting a Canyon CF then it's absolutely a size Large and you'll fit beautifully on it.

Quote:
can you substitute 170 cranks for 175?
Right now it's like some fancy ass restaurant in Los Angeles with no name - we've got dozens of these things - no substitutions. The bike has stem options but it comes stock with a certain stem length - which is perfect for you by the way. It comes stock with what ever size cranks are on it, and, as of late, those have been rather long. If the future Canyon's goal is to have the customer select all those bits and then it's gets built and shipped after the buy button is hit. We're just not there yet. My advice for those who find 175mm cranks on their TT bike to pull them before it's ridden, buy a new set (prolly with power built in) and then sell the long cranks on ebay as "never ridden.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian,

Many thanks for your input. I’ll be going with the CF as the SLX is more bike than I need /can use at this point. Is there a way to mention you as a referral when purchasing - or is Canyon monitoring this thread?

Cheers,

type-B

--------------------------------------------------------

It seemed like a good idea at the time. . .
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [type-B] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Many thanks for your input. I’ll be going with the CF as the SLX is more bike than I need /can use at this point. Is there a way to mention you as a referral when purchasing - or is Canyon monitoring this thread?

Type-B
That's very kind of you to offer. No, don't worry about me (and, frankly, I hope Canyon is not monitoring this thread because I just told you not to by their $11,000 bike). When you get 'er built post pics here. I'll be eager to see.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
If I had your seat height (center of BB to top of saddle mid rail) I'd be super confident

In the meantime I arrived home where my bike is and could measure this as well, 82.5 cm-s. Not sure if I could go any higher or not, the seatpost is pushed up almost all the way up (0.5 cm-s left)
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hello All. I'm new to the forum, but have been lurking for some time now.

I'm in the market to purchase a Tri bike and have my eye on a Speedmax CF 8.0, among others. Since this will be my first Tri bike purchase, I decided to get a Guru Fitting done in order to be armed with some numbers when I start looking for a specific brand/model. The fit process was great and I learned a lot, but I am still a bit unsure about which size to get if I order a Speedmax.

When I put my body dimension into the Canyon fit system it tells me that I normally would be a small, but because of my short inseam an extra small would be a better fit. I understand that the Canyon fit system is just an approximation and may not take into account all other factors. I called Canyon and asked them what size would be best and they really could not give me a definitive answer. According to them I am sort of in-between sizes and either might work.

The Guru Fit System will allow you to pick out a few bikes you may be interested in and recommend the proper sizing and setup needed, such as Stem length, Stem Angle, Spacer size, etc., in order to hit your fit numbers for a particular bike. For the Speedmax CF it recommended a size small with some modifications to the stock stem length and angle. See photo below.




I would like to purchase a bike without having to completely reconfigure the front end with new parts. I know the bike won't fit perfectly out of the box and adjustments will be needed and over time I could fine tune those items. But I would like to get it as close as possible with the stock parts and adjust those to my "fit numbers"

Another issue is that according to my Fit numbers, my Pad Stack and Reach does not even seem possible with a size small Speedmax - See Photo Below.



Then again, I am new to this and not exactly sure how all these numbers fit together and I am sure I am missing something. But it would appear that my pad stack and reach numbers fall into the Extra-Small bike.

Honestly, I am not certain I really understand the whole fit process and how stem length plays a role and why the Fit system recommended such a short stem and why it appears that a size small would indeed not be the right size, so please excuse my ignorance. For all this rambling is probably showing how little I know about tri bike fitting! :-)

To sum it all up....I need help. I really appreciate any input on the size that would be best for me and apologize for the long winded post.

Other Numbers:
Height: 65 inches / 165.1cm
Inseam: Roughly 29 to 30 inches / 73.66 to 76.2cm

Thank you for your help!
Last edited by: MicNichol: May 13, 19 16:39
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [MicNichol] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I originally posted this in the Speedmax CF owners thread - https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6649465 - but should have posted here in the first place....

Here's the short version.

I recently purchased a size large 2019 Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. I’m trying to get the fit dialed in but having a problem with pad stack.

I currently have the front end in the stock configuration, 25mm spacer under stem and all risers between base bar and pads/extensions. The extensions are sitting at a 20 degree angle. In this configuration I’m measuring pad stack of ~683-685mm. The size large geometry is supposed to have an upper pad stack limit of 714mm. Can anybody think of why this would be the case? I now have 3 calls into Canyon support over the past 1.5 weeks. They continue mentioning they will get back to me but > 1 week for a basic question seems pretty concerning to me. This past weekend I had my bike mechanic double check my measurements to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid, sure enough ~685mm is what he measured.

Does anybody know for 100% certain the geometry numbers on Canyon US website are for the 2019 bike with PD subsonic setup vs the 2018 T4+ setup?

Prior to purchasing the bike I had a professional fit by an ST recommended fitter in my area. I also posted in this exact thread a couple of times confirming sizing. I also confirmed sizing with Canyon via phone. Quite unfortunate to find myself in this situation so hoping someone can point me in the right direction before this bike goes back to Canyon.

Thanks in advance.

-Todd
Last edited by: twheat18: May 13, 19 13:59
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
twheat18 wrote:
I originally posted this in the Speedmax CF owners thread - https://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/?post=6649465 - but should have posted here in the first place....

Here's the short version.

I recently purchased a size large 2019 Speedmax CF 8.0 SL. I’m trying to get the fit dialed in but having a problem with pad stack.

I currently have the front end in the stock configuration, 25mm spacer under stem and all risers between base bar and pads/extensions. The extensions are sitting at a 20 degree angle. In this configuration I’m measuring pad stack of ~683-685mm. The size large geometry is supposed to have an upper pad stack limit of 714mm. Can anybody think of why this would be the case? I now have 3 calls into Canyon support over the past 1.5 weeks. They continue mentioning they will get back to me but > 1 week for a basic question seems pretty concerning to me. This past weekend I had my bike mechanic double check my measurements to make sure I wasn't doing something stupid, sure enough ~685mm is what he measured.

Does anybody know for 100% certain the geometry numbers on Canyon US website are for the 2019 bike with PD subsonic setup vs the 2018 T4+ setup?

Prior to purchasing the bike I had a professional fit by an ST recommended fitter in my area. I also posted in this exact thread a couple of times confirming sizing. I also confirmed sizing with Canyon via phone. Quite unfortunate to find myself in this situation so hoping someone can point me in the right direction before this bike goes back to Canyon.

Thanks in advance.

-Todd

After 4 calls and a few emails the verdict is in from Canyon.

The advertised geometry (notably pad stack and reach) of the Speedmax CF is not fully achievable without supplemental parts from Profile Design. This is not unlike the Team Switch Plate parts necessary for the SLX. However the availability of this information is for some reason very hard to come by.

Specifically speaking, in order to achieve the higher end of the pad stack range for a size Large Speedmax CF (685mm - 714mm) one must purchase additional aerobar risers from Profile Design beyond the 50mm of spacers that come with the bike. Supposedly this is noted by the use of an asterisk on the Canyon website (just an asterisk, no further explanation of this asterisk anywhere on the site). Link to the Profile Design parts is https://profile-design.com/...ariant=1808698245146.



So the good news, for me and anybody else that may find themselves in the situation, is that by using the PD spec cockpit I can go purchase additional parts to hit my pad stack number.

While not the end of the world as a first time Canyon customer the lack of transparency about this during pre-purchase phone calls and poor customer service post-purchase have me wondering if I made the right choice. Hopefully this saves somebody else some time in the future (although most of ST is probably much smarter than me and would have known about the PD spacers already).

-Todd
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hi Ian, I'm about to buy my first TT bike, I have been riding for a while, the yearly main event is the 300 km road bike marathon around the lake Vattern in Sweden. I have a Trek Domane 4.0 2014 size 52 that used for the Ironman 70.3 and that I think has a too long stem (around 90 mm?).
I’m going to join the Kalmar Ironman 140 in August this year and after been looking for second hand bikes for a while without success and after reading some of the articles about value for money entry level bikes in this site I have decided to go for the Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0.
According to their calculator (I have also e-mailed them) I should order a size S.
I have, however a feeling that I may need a smaller size like either the WMN version or a XS. Could you advice?
Some data about me here (in cm),
height 170, inseam 83, Trunk 58-60, shoulder width 38-40, arm length 58, lower arm 32. I have recently lowered the seat height from 73 to 72 cm and increased the stack by turning the stem which has resulted on bigger power efficiency. I'm 50+ old and although I can touch my toes when bending it is difficult to set the hands flat on the ground without straining my back too much.
I have been simulating positions on my racer and I think a reach to arm pad center that would work could be 44-45 cm and the distance arm pad to seat bone position 60 cm but again that's just guessing.
I would appreciate your advice on right size for the Speedmax CF 8.0. Thx in advance!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JoseP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I’m going to join the Kalmar Ironman 140 in August this year and.... I have decided to go for the Canyon Speedmax CF 8.0.
According to their calculator....I should order a size S.
I have, however a feeling that I may need a smaller size like either the WMN version or a XS. Could you advice?
Some data about me here (in cm): height 170, inseam 83, Trunk 58-60, shoulder width 38-40, arm length 58, lower arm 32. I have recently lowered the seat height from 73 to 72 cm.I have been simulating positions on my racer and I think a reach to arm pad center that would work could be 44-45 cm.
I would appreciate your advice on right size for the Speedmax CF 8.0

JoseP,
You gave me some good data with which to work here. Thank you. You're pretty leggy meaning your height is created with more inseam and less torso that a typical male body, that will work, there's lots of us out here like that in the bike/tri world.

You're guessing your PadX(c) to be 445mm... I bet that's pretty darn close. I also think your PadY is roughly 600. Based on that... I want to recommend the XS. The small would work for the PadY but the shortest that bike will go (PadX to center) is 447 and I worry we're too close to the limit.

With the Canyon Speedmax CF size XS your PadY of 600mm fits nicely into the bike's range: 553-640. The PadX of 447mm also fits nicely into the middle of the XS range: 430-455.

As a side note - the Men's XS and the WMN XS are identical in terms of PadY & PadX so that frees you up to purchase based on availability and color if you wish.

Go get 'em.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Todd,

I'm so sorry that this has been such a trial for you. I know you wanted to make that Profile Aeria Ultimate front end work and you were so patient through all the steps. Be sure that you know more about this bike than most, and I thank you for your info sharing.

I hope you crush on this machine!

Ian
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
Todd,

I'm so sorry that this has been such a trial for you. I know you wanted to make that Profile Aeria Ultimate front end work and you were so patient through all the steps. Be sure that you know more about this bike than most, and I thank you for your info sharing.

I hope you crush on this machine!

Ian

Thanks Ian. My new spacers just came in so I think I’ll be all set now. I appreciate all of your help.

-Todd
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [twheat18] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Need some guidance regarding SpeedMax sizing.
I am 5'3 (160cm) riding a Quintana Roo CD0.1 which has Stack=497mm, Reach=396mm. To compensate for my small body size, my fitter added in extra 65mm of spacers
I compared to Speedmax XS frame, which has Stack of 481mm, so to retain the same stack value as advised by fitter, I would need to have a spacer height of 81mm which I think is too high. Any owners here that have high spacers added and/or of similar height?
Also, how much of an upgrade from my current bike to the Speedmax (not the SLX version)? If the gain is very marginal, then probably that is worth considering more.
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thx Ian! :-)
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [MicNichol] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
It's not clear from your fit data where the Pad X is measured to. If it is to the centre, that gives a pad X to rear of 394 (assuming the bars used in the fit had the correct Bontrager pads).
Below is a fit chart for the Speedmax measured to the rear of the pad. The number in brackets is the pad spacer required. Each size fit range based on using stock stem.
On the XS you would drop out the big spacer (so the top of the stem wouldn't match the top of the bento, though I heard rumours of a lower stack bento) and just stick in a 5mm spacer
the PD pads move in 7.5mm increments of X so you could hit 395,555

If your padx in the fit report is to the rear, you're probably better to look for a different bike (like a Fuji Norcom Straight) that is longer reach.




Speedtheory
Last edited by: cyclenutnz: May 26, 19 3:25
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thx Ian!
By the way, I had a closer look at the XS, acc to the size chart the seat tube max height is 72.9, having lowered my seat height on my racer from 73 to 72 quite recently, isn't it close to the limit?
I suppose I would need to do some adjustments as this is my first TT bike and I'm afraid on not having enough space for adjustments.
Thx in advance!
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hey Ian,

I managed to find a fit studio in Amsterdam and did the smart thing to go in and fit prior to buying. The saddle height I came in at was 743, so while I was in range of both the S and M frame, we ended up going with the S. Reach at 454 and stack 652, with some room to go down 1-2 cm, and also at some point will look at a 165 crank arm when I have spare money laying around

Appreciate the input!

Immer

Chasing PB Podcast Latest interview with Eli Hemming on Targeting a US MTR spot in Tokyo
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JoseP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I had a closer look at the XS, acc to the size chart the seat tube max height is 72.9, having lowered my seat height on my racer from 73 to 72 quite recently, isn't it close to the limit?

JoseP,

There's some confusion on what we are reading on the geometry chart of that bike - and if I'm wrong I absolutely want to know. The range of seat height is 670 to 790mm. That's published on their site and in my notes from the engineers. You're currently sitting very near 725mm - no worries on hitting your precise saddle height on the XS.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ChasingPB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I managed to find a fit studio in Amsterdam and did the smart thing to go in and fit prior to buying. The saddle height I came in at was 743, so while I was in range of both the S and M frame, we ended up going with the S. Reach at 454 and stack 652, with some room to go down 1-2 cm, and also at some point will look at a 165 crank arm when I have spare money laying around

Appreciate the input!


ChasingPB,

GREAT NEWS!!! Post pics when you're ready, I'm eager to see.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Wing,

I got your fit report. As you said, you'd like to duplicate the position on the existing bike on a new Canyon Speedmax. Normally I'd just rip the Pad Y & Pad X off the report and give you a prescription. The report lists your Pad Y as 650 and your Pad X as 350 (it says 300 to back of pad, some bikes measure to the center of the pad and Canyon is one of them so I amended to a spot that's pretty close to center: 350)

That would be tough to replicate on the Speedmax SLX - the medium maxes out at 650 in Pad Y - I'm not too freaked about about that because I absolutely believe you can and should ride lower especially after moving to 165 cranks (good call, by the way). But your Pad X of 350 is such a small number that I doubted it for a bit and started to dig deeper: the nose of your saddle sits 12mm behind the BB and nose to back of pad is 335. If I subtract 12 from 335 I get 323 and then if I add 50mm to get to center of pad that's 373. There's some "noise" in that equation but it doesn't matter because shortest the SLX medium goes is 448. If we go down to a size small in the SLX then we loose the PadY and still don't get the Pad X - the SLX is a long and low bike and you need a shorter and taller bike- it's as simple as that. So.....

The Canyon Speedmax CF in a size XS is the option. You'd remove the stem that comes on it (70mm /-17deg) and put on a 50mm stem in -6 pitch (your bike and this bike have the exact same frame reach and this is the same length stem you're using now). It would be almost perfect.

HOWEVER...if you walked into my studio I would guide you into riding more onto the nose of that ISM saddle so that your hips were a bit more forward on the bike. By moving to that place you'd be far more comfortable with your arm pads a bit lower and a bit farther away. I'd also 'til your aerobars up a bit (maybe 8deg) so you can lean into them more. I'm certain you'd be more comfortable if not the same (always priority one), you'd be more powerful and you'd be out of the wind a bit more. That new position still works on the CF size XS and the only change would be fewer spacers under the aerobars and arm pads moved out a few bolt holes.

Get back to me if you have questions, Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok, thx,
I was looking at the Canyon Swedish site here:
https://www.canyon.com/...e=BK#!accordions=1_1

Seat height A according to that link is 599 -729.

The same in the German site
https://www.canyon.com/...geometry-section-tab

I assume it is a typo.

Kind regards,
José
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Ian. This is Wing btw.

So let's just focus on the non-SLX model. My current bike has a stack of 497mm and additional 65mm spacers which gives a total of 562mm, while the Canyon CF has a stack of 481mm so to match the same height, we'll need 81mm of spacers?

Or are we just talking about the pad height (Pad-Y) and just leave the basebar to its original spot?
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [JoseP] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
JoseP,

Hold tight. I've reached out to an engineer at Canyon in Germany. Will have an answer soon.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [skyjuice] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
 
Quote:
My current bike has a stack of 497mm and additional 65mm spacers which gives a total of 562mm, while the Canyon CF has a stack of 481mm so to match the same height, we'll need 81mm of spacers?

Wing,
We can't just look at spacers under the stem because the arm pads sit at different heights above the base bar.
It gets confusing when we try to calculate from Frame Stack and Frame Reach to Pad Y and Pad X. Since we know your Pad Y and Pad X off the fit sheet we should just stay with those numbers and compare apples-to-apples.
Your current bike has a Pad Y of 650 and a Pad X of 350.
Speedmax CF in XS has Pad Y of 640 (max) and a Pad X 430 (min).

The Pad Y is an easy match.....you need (650) and that can be achieved by changing the stock -17deg stem to a -6 degree stem. At this length you gain 9mm so that puts you almost exactly at 650. And this is with the maximum spacers under both the stem and the aerobars.

The Pad X is tougher to nail.....you need (350) and this gets closest by changing the stock 70mm stem to a 50mm stem. You'll pull the Pad X back to 390 and then slide the extensions back just a hair. Your elbows will hang off the back of the pad a bit and if that's okay your good to go. If this doesn't work for you then remove the stock aerobars (Profile-Design 35aSubsonic) and switch to something like a Sonic Ergo or the Legacy or a similar aerobar (like the one on your current bike) that allows the arm pads to sneak back over the base bar so they can be even nearer to you.

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think I may be out of luck, but:

Stack 50.8
Reach 38.0

Thanks
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slightly off topic, but I thought I would get your opinion.
How difficult is it to fit someone on a Canyon Aeroroad with its integrated cockpit? I am looking at the CF SL 8.0.
Can one usually play with seat height- for/aft to get a reasonable road fit?
Or is it just a maybe?

Team Zoot So Cal
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [CajunCannon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
CajunCannon,
It's important we are in agreement on our terms and numbers other wise....you remember what happened to that Mars rover that crashed into the surface of the Red Planet 'cuz some of the scientists were using inches and some were using cm.

Stack and Reach are measurements to the top of a head tube and useful/mandatory on a mortal bike (one with a normal stem).
Pad Stack and Pad Reach (I prefer Pad Y and Pad X to reduce confusion) are used to measure prescribe a triathlon super bike (one with an proprietary stem or stems if we're lucky).
--and--
I'd like Pad X to the center of the pad but can get really close if all you have is the measurement to the rear.

If you've had a fit I'd gladly look over the report to help guide this process
If you want to be fit I can help recommend someone who can prescribe a tri bike
If you have a current tri bike and you love the position I can explain a way to measure that PadY/X at home
If none of the above are an option then I want to know your overall height and seat height and I can calculate
If none of the above are an option then simply go to the Canyon site and use their PPS

But I want to be involved if I can. Let me know what you mean by 508mm and 380mm

Ian

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I'm all about athletes mastering triathlon
Twitter - @TriCoachIan
Last edited by: ianpeace: May 29, 19 14:55
Quote Reply
Re: Official FIT ASSISTANCE for Canyon Speedmax CF and CF SLX [Karl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
Slightly off topic, but I thought I would get your opinion.
How difficult is it to fit someone on a Canyon Aeroroad with its integrated cockpit? I am looking at the CF SL 8.0.
Can one usually play with seat height- for/aft to get a reasonable road fit?
Or is it just a maybe?


Karl,

Short answer is yes - reasonable road fit and be obtained.

I've been selling a ton of Canyon road bikes out of my fit studio and in a rather happenstance sort of way. A athlete comes and says "I want a new road bike with disc brakes and electronic shifting". We do the whole prescriptive fit process on the dynamic fit bike and then we sidle up to the computer and I ask "what bike brands do you like?". We start the process and this common bike that fits is $7k USD, that common brand that fits is $8k USD. After we have 3 or 4 listed I say "I'd be remiss if I didn't mention this Canyon that fits, is disc broke (braked?), Ui2 and it's $4k USD". This is the fundamental promise of direct sales from Canyon - they're great bikes and they're a LOT less expensive.

Seat height on an Aeroroad is just like any other bike - low, high, go nuts - it's 350mm long. The "clamp" is hidden and as long as you pay attention to torque specs you're golden.

Seat fore-aft is good as the clamp set back on the post is modest and you've got some rail slide to get you where you need to be. As a fitter I always want a 27.2mm road post hole so I can have the widest ranges of options but if that were the case than this bike would be ever so less sexy and we're all for sexy so we'll stay with....wait for it.....Trident (that's the name they give that post).

The Cockpit...now that's a real thing to discuss. The integrated, one piece stem/bar thing is referred to as the H36 Bar. It is a work of art and those who lean towards the aesthetic will want to keep it no matter what. Sizes 2XS, XS and S come with a 90mm "stem", the M and L come with a 100mm "stem", the XL comes with a 110, and the 2XL comes with a 120mm. I put stem in quotation marks because there is some evidence that they measure it a bit differently than most would: center of steerer to the trailing edge of the bar not the center of the bar - and I'm not sure of the bar reach. So there's some complexity there. I don't lean towards the aesthetic, I have a straight up fit bias. To that end we have the ability to buy a different H36 bar if we don't like the one that comes on it (90% of the time folks want a shorter one). Also, we can remove the H36 bar and put on a mortal stem but the steer tube is 1 & 1/4 not the common 1 1/8th so we are limited to ~4 manufacturers (Giant, Ritchey, Zipp and prolly one other). An