Thank you Ian, very much appreciated!!

---

5x IM
25x70.3
3x World Champ qualifier

ironfish,
Thanks for dropping in here. I want to help, here's the most complete answer I can give you.

The very best, gold standard method of buying the right bike and riding the right position is this: go to a bike fitter who is educated in the triathlon position (FIST is prefered, Guru is very good, there are others), who is experienced in fitting people on tri bikes (I'd like them to have 100+ in their recent past), and who owns a dynamic fit bike (Purely Custom, Shimano, Retul, Guru, or Exit - those are the only ones). The fitter you see has to have all three of those elements checked off. Pay them what ever they want; $300, $400. Leave the fit with: 1) your Pad Y and Pad X that will give you the keys to the buying kingdom, 2) a recomendation of 4 bikes and the front end configurations that are right for you, 3) all your fit coordinates so that fit is finished even though you don't yet own a bike. Then you can buy the bike that checks all your boxes: fit, size, frontend config, brand you love, group set, wheels, color, etc. etc. and when it's in hand you just follow the fit coordinate numbers to put it into the same spot the fitter had you in on the dynamic fit bike when you were in your best and final postion. Voila! If you want a recoomendation on a fitter come back to me here with where you live and if I have one I'll let you know.

The second best way to do this is... you take your old tri bike, one that you like the position.. measure out the Pad Y and Pad X and give it to me here and let me prescribe the right Canyon Speedmax for you. There's a major presumption here - that you have an existin tri bike and that you like the postion (comfy, powerful, aero-ish). If that's the case... go here to see how to measure the Pad Y/X


The next best way is to give me these bits here:
1) overall height, Imma convert to mm but I'll accept feet & inches becasue Bart Peppitone was a good math teacher.
2) inseam, again mm for me but inches are fine
I absolutely have to have 1 & 2 at the bare miniumum but it woudl be nice for me to also have..
3) any odd notes about morphology (like: my wing span is 4 inches longer/shorter than my height) and any major physical issues (like: I have 4 fused lumbar vertabrea...or I'm so inflexible that I haven't seem feet in 23 years...or after a 3 decade love affaire with Blatz long necks I have a beer belly that looks like I'm 8 months pregnant with twins). You're probably normal enough that #3 won't need to be noted - 99% of us are.

Get back to me here and let me know,

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Streaky,
Thanks for the note. I really enjoy this whole process and I'm happy to help.

The right Speedmax SLX is a size Large, short stem, mid space and probably the medium extension but.... you're seat height is a bit higher than others but not extreme. There could be three reasons for that - off the top of my head: 1) your leggy, 2) your cranks are very short, or 3) your seat is too high (I finally get to write that into this Forum and write it with sincerety! What a time to be alive!!!). So the reason I say "probalby the medium extension" is because if you've got super long legs you might have long arms and then you may want the long extension but if you're ordering in the US then the bike comes with the medium extension and you have to order the longer one seperately so you might as well try the medium extension to see if it works.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

So it looks like I might be able to swing a new Tri bike this year, right around the time that some of the new speedmax are becoming available this spring.

I'm looking like I might be out of the fit parameters though and would love some help.

To the back of my pads I'm a 676 stack which puts me smack in the middle of a large (I ride a 58cm in my road bike). I can go quite a bit lower and would like to work towards that. My reach is where I'm stuck. I'm at a 527 reach, and I actually think I could/should get my elbows out a little bit more (not much, but a little bit). That number puts me outside of the reach of even an XL. Are there different length stems available beyond what's on the geometry chart? I currently have TriRig closed back scoops on my bike now, and would probably switch them over to whatever new bike I get, they have a little more adjustability in them than normal pads I think, but not sure it's quite enough to deal with the discrepancy I've got on this frame. Any ideas? Help? Thanks in advance.

---

USAT Level 1 Coach
Team Next Level
http://goteamnltri.com/

Thanks Ian. Super helpful.

I think I'm probably leggy, I've had a few fits over the years on different bikes and always seem to end up at this height. Usually ride 175mm, but guess I will be dropping 5mm here off the shelf so will need to go up slightly. I'm actually ordering in Europe so do have the option on longer extensions at order (and stem). Doing the measurement they recommend (elbow to wall holding a pencil in the fist), that measures 410mm, so does that suggest long extension might be a good option?

When I was looking I was undecided on the stem length, will go short. I was just a bit unsure how much more room I had if I was extending slightly.

Thanks for the help.

gregkeller,
I'm on a life-mission to protect the integrity and avoid the confusion in fit terms. To that - Stack and Reach speak to a place on the frame (top o' the head tube) and Pad Y and Pad X are all about our convorsation here (I even want to avoid the slippery slope of "Pad Stack and Pad Reach"). Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I need to know if that Pad X of 572 is to the middle of your pad, the pit of your scoops, or the back of that pad? And I guess I also want to know.. the Pad Y of 676 you're specific about that being to the back of the pad - which is scooped, so are elebows sitting a bit below that?

Also - you looking at the SLX (same geo as CFR) or the CF? Or would you like me to spec' both?

Let me know (and I'd don't your seat height but it would be good if it's handy).

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

 

Streaky,
With your arm length you should get the Long aero extension. Also, the max seat hight is close to 910 on this bike - I bring it up because you've been riding in the aero position with 175mm cranks, are open to going going to 170s and I'm thinkin' 160s might be good or 165s - sort of depends upon your arm pad drop. If your arm pads are 9+cm below the saddle go shorter. If you're arm pads are 8cm or less you can probably get away with 170s but still not optimal.

Lastly, if you get the short stem you can still go 10mm forward in the arm pads. If you are 100% sure you're not ever going shorter with your cockpit and you might want more than 10mm more room then get the long stem. Since you're in Europe you have the ability to make these choices (stem, cranks, extensions) when ordering- that's a good thing.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ian,
Seat height is 80.5cm (I'm 187cm tall)

Sorry about my misuse of the terms. Pad X of 527 is to the back of the pad. I had standard zipp pads on the bike when I did the fitting, not the scoops. Same for the Pad Y. They didn't have the "scoop" in them and again measurements were to the back of the pads. When I put the scoops on, I did my best to keep my body in the same position. So I just confirmed my measurements on this bike with the scoops, and those numbers are correct if I measure to kind of the bottom back corner of the scoops (if that makes any sense)

I am looking at either the SLX/CFR right now. Unless you think I'm potentially a better fit on the CF.
Thanks in advance.

---

USAT Level 1 Coach
Team Next Level
http://goteamnltri.com/

Thanks! Here are the measurements from my 2004 Quintana Roo Caliente. If it makes a difference, it has 650c wheels.

My Height: 70.75 inches
My Inseam: 34 inches
Seat Height: 75cm
Pad Y: 91cm - 27cm = 64cm
Pad X: 90.5cm - 49cm = 41.5cm

Hi Ian, thanks for having this great thread. So far I'm riding a cannondale slice from 2015 with a frame size of 54 and rim breaks. Here I have done a bike fitting four years ago and riding it works very good for me. Also two to four hours are no problem at all with this setting. Additionally, I have a cannondale supersix from 2021 with frame size 54 and this fits me also very well.
Now I'm looking for a Canyon Speedmax with disc breaks. In general I'm interested in the Speedmax CF and CF SLX. Using the calculator from the canyon website, it says I'm beetween the sizes S and M for both. From my personal understanding size M for the CF or size S for the CF SLX could match.

The measurements from my cannondale slice are as follows:
Stem: 100 mm
Spacer: 30 mm
Seat Tube Length: 560 mm
Top Tube Length: 535 mm
Seat Height: 745 mm
Pad X (rear): 410 mm
Pad X (center): 455 mm
Pad Y: 665 mm


Body measurements are:
Height: 178 cm
Inseam: 845 mm


Thanks for the help and looking forward for your answer :-)

ianpeace wrote:
Quote:
So it looks like I might be able to swing a new Tri bike this year, right around the time that some of the new speedmax are becoming available this spring.

I'm looking like I might be out of the fit parameters though and would love some help.

To the back of my pads I'm a 676 stack which puts me smack in the middle of a large (I ride a 58cm in my road bike). I can go quite a bit lower and would like to work towards that. My reach is where I'm stuck. I'm at a 527 reach, and I actually think I could/should get my elbows out a little bit more (not much, but a little bit). That number puts me outside of the reach of even an XL. Are there different length stems available beyond what's on the geometry chart? I currently have TriRig closed back scoops on my bike now, and would probably switch them over to whatever new bike I get, they have a little more adjustability in them than normal pads I think, but not sure it's quite enough to deal with the discrepancy I've got on this frame. Any ideas? Help? Thanks in advance.

gregkeller,
I'm on a life-mission to protect the integrity and avoid the confusion in fit terms. To that - Stack and Reach speak to a place on the frame (top o' the head tube) and Pad Y and Pad X are all about our convorsation here (I even want to avoid the slippery slope of "Pad Stack and Pad Reach"). Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

I need to know if that Pad X of 572 is to the middle of your pad, the pit of your scoops, or the back of that pad? And I guess I also want to know.. the Pad Y of 676 you're specific about that being to the back of the pad - which is scooped, so are elebows sitting a bit below that?

Also - you looking at the SLX (same geo as CFR) or the CF? Or would you like me to spec' both?

Let me know (and I'd don't your seat height but it would be good if it's handy).

Ian
Ian,
Seat height is 80.5cm (I'm 187cm tall)

Sorry about my misuse of the terms. Pad X of 527 is to the back of the pad. I had standard zipp pads on the bike when I did the fitting, not the scoops. Same for the Pad Y. They didn't have the "scoop" in them and again measurements were to the back of the pads. When I put the scoops on, I did my best to keep my body in the same position. So I just confirmed my measurements on this bike with the scoops, and those numbers are correct if I measure to kind of the bottom back corner of the scoops (if that makes any sense)

I am looking at either the SLX/CFR right now. Unless you think I'm potentially a better fit on the CF.
Thanks in advance.

gregkeller,
No sweat - I mean, we're both coaches so we know there are 7 different meanings to the word "tempo" - I'm trying to avoid that in fit related terms :)

You can ride a Speedmax SLX/CFR for your Pad Y of 676, Pad X of 527 and it would require you to get an XL with the long cockpit (read "long stem"), low spacer, and pads foward 98%. Here's why I'm not nuts about recomending this to you... In the US the bike comes stock with the short cockpit and you cannot request hardware changes at time of order. I'm also not 100% sure how easy it is to get a long cockpit here in the us - maybe, today, they've got a rack full of 'em ready to ship but that hasn't been the case in the past. You simply ride too long for the Large to fit.

The Speedmax CF is better suited to you... in a size large, with the 90mm stem that comes stock on it, not much spacer at all ~25mm which is the height of the spacer under the stem so you'll ride with aerobar pedestals slammed, and now pads pushed out 99%.

I wanted to write those two prescriptions above to be respectful of your coordinates, your fit. I'd like to take a moment to expand on this if I may....You're almost 6'2" but I'm guessing (from the Pad X) that you've got a fairly long torso. If you'd come to me here on this thread and said "never owned a tri bike, I'm 187cm tall, what's my bike?" I would have guessed a Pad Y of 655ish and a Pad X of 505ish. You're riding 22mm higher and 22mm longer that what I would have expected. The cockpit distance (Pad X) doesn't worry me; some folks don't want their elbows right under the shoulders and they like extending foward a bit - fine. The Pad Y of +22 makes me wonder... first about crank length. The primay benefit of shorter cranks is that we can rider lower (assuming more out of the wind) and keep our hip from getting all bound up at the top of the pedal stroke. Now I've never seen your position, I don't know anything more than what you've given me here, but I wanted to just jot that down to see if it might cause an awakening.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

ironfish,
I don't know if you're interested in the Speedmax SLX/CFR (same geometry) or the CF... so I'll spec' them both...

For the Canyon Speedmax SLX/CFR... size small, short stem, mid spacer, medium extension. As luck would have it, this is the hardward that's on the bike when it comes out of the box here in the USA.

For the Canyon Speedmax CF.... size small, 70mm stem that comes stock on the bike, 15mm of aerobar pedestal and pads one hole back of dead center.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

wittmaan,

So much good info...thank you.

The SLX in a size small fits you best: short stem, high spacer, medium extension.

The CF is a small as well with the 70mm stem that comes stock, and ~15mm of aerobar pedestal - pad's 2 holes back of center.

Now, I'd like to reflect a bit if you'll allow me.... "works very good for me....2-4 hours no problem at all" so great!!! I think the cranks that came spec'd on a 2015 Slice size 54 are probably 172.5mm. If you mounted a 160mm crank on your new Canyon Speedmax you'd drop your Pad Y down ~15mm and be JUST as comfortable as you are now and be faster. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Ian,

Thanks a bunch for that feedback. I appreciate it a ton. As for the position, I could certainly be lower. When I got my fit done, my pads were significantly lower, and they brought my elbows up a decent amount. I'd say I could easily be 2cm lower, maybe more. I do think I have a slightly longer torso and pretty long arms as well. My elbows aren't directly under my shoulders, but I also wouldn't say I'm "stretched out" too much. I'd actually say that my bike setup prior to my fit was much more extreme than what we ended up on. I was probably 4-5cm lower and I had a 120 stem vs. a 90 stem now. The fitter told me that when I get a new bike, I'm gonna need to get something that's "low & long". I appreciate all the help. Now that I know the CF is the better fit, I think I might try and find something on the used market and build a project bike up out of it, if I can find something.

---

USAT Level 1 Coach
Team Next Level
http://goteamnltri.com/

Hi Ian,

Great to read through pages of comments and see your passion.

I have done a few full distance and are planning two more this year. Usually only out of the bars in sharp turns and nutrition zones.

I am looking for replace my Shiv Expert (size L) from 2017 with at CF SLX 8 or a CFR, but I am not fully sure about sizing. Seems to be just between M and L. I don't want to push the bike to the limit for adjustments and be to long over the front wheel.

Current numbers are:
Height: 188 cm
Inseam: 88 cm
Seat height: 79,5
Pad Y: 66,7 cm
Pad X: 42,1 cm
Crank arms: 172,5 mm
Saddel setback: minus 5 cm

Appreciate your thoughts on this.

BR Niko

BR Niko,
For the Speedmax SLX or CFR your a Medium with the short stem, high spacer, and medium extension....but I have say this.. if you buy this bike in the USA it'll come with 170mm cranks and that change will very likely allow your arm pads to drop a bit so you'll use the mid spacer. I think you might do well with even 165mm cranks.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Awesome! Thanks for the help, Ian.

I’m still considering that gold standard option by getting dialed in by a fitter and it looks like you’re in the Los Angeles area, but the link in your signature or fit profile doesn’t resolve. Is there a more current link for info, or someone in the LA-ish area you’d recommend (I’m in Santa Clarita)?

ironfish,

You've got two great options.
1) Moses@TriFitLA.com he's in Santa Monica, well educated, experieced, uses a Shimano dynamic fit bike. Excellent

2) Phil Casanta at Hypercat.com. He's in Ventura, venerable, fits on a Purely Custom dynamic fit bike. A Master Fitter.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks for quick response. I am in Europe, but bike will still be with 170 mm crank.
Just to be sure, you do not think that my position will be too much forward/ahead of the front as the reach is shorter than my current as well as size L?

Quote:

Niko,
No. you will not be too far forward over the front wheel. You're not even utilizing the long stem so you're no where near the outter reaches of the bikes cockpit distance. If, while ordering in Europe, you can get the bike builts and shipped with 165mm cranks do it - if it's 170s that'll be good too.

Ian

---

Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thank you Ian for your assistance in this thread.

Can I please get some assistance. I currently ride the new speed concept, size medium, long far topper. Using your video of getting stack and reach I came up with the following

Pad y (stack back of pad) 620

Pad x ( reach to back of pad ) 455

(pads have 14 degree tilt)
Seat height : 77.1cm
Rider height : 178 cm

Seat distance behind bb: 19mm with adamo race saddle
Enclosed is a pic of a club super sprint race for some idea.

I believe the stock canyon stem default allows for a reach of 460 is that correct ? When one is so close to the max setting would it make sense to order the bike with a longer stem to allow margin of error ? Does the long stem cover a shorter reach at all or is its minimum 460? I ride with larger bontrager race pads and have the elbows on them with some hanging off the back but that’s ok because of their size. Refer to pic below.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Ian, when you have the chance, I’d appreciate your expertise with a size recommendation.

Depending on availability I’m planning on buying either a Speedmax CF7 Disc, CF8 Disc or CF8 Disc Di2.

I don’t have access to a bike fitter.

I currently don’t own a triathlon bike.

In the past I have owned 2010 and 2014 Cervelo P2’s. Both were size 51cm. On both occasions I was fit by a fitter with a good reputation but I no longer have my stack and reach numbers from these bikes. Antidotally, both bikes seemed to fit well. My position wasn’t overly aggressive but I was able to produce reasonable (for me) power, it seemed somewhat aero looking based on the eyeball aero tunnel and I was comfortable.

I’m 170.2cm (5’7”) with an inseam of 76.2cm (30”). I think my body proportions are all somewhat normal. I’m a male, 60 years old and don’t have any issues with injuries, mobility, etc.

I understand the limitations of the Canyon online Fit Calculator but it recommends a size Small in all 3 models. At 5’7”and 30”, I appear to be right in the middle of the Small recommendation range which seems to be from 5’6”and 29” (below this is XS) up to 5’9” and 32” (above this is a M).

So, can I make these bikes fit and if so, what size would you recommend?

Thanks!

Is Ian still around ? He might be on a well earned holiday

In need of a new Tri-Bike, I last road a 56 Felt IA back around 2016. I am looking at the Canyon bikes, however their calculator says I am on a Small, that is fine if that is correct.

@Slowman actually did my fit back then and I have attached his chicken scratch for your interpretation! I did chat with Canyon via online chat, they said they confirmed me on a small.

I am 6 foot in the mornings and 5'11 1/2 in the afternoon ;-)
Inseam is a 31/32

If there is a better fitting bike, no worries, happy to hear options too!

Thank you in advance for your assistance!

Hi Ian -

I'm pretty committed to getting a Canyon Speedmax CF 8 and am hoping for an indication of what size bike I should be getting when they come in stock in the US while I wait for my tri fit -

Height: 200cm
Inseam: 96cm

My current road bike setup from a very recent bike fit is
Saddle height: 86.4 cm
Nose of saddle to stem center: 63cm
Nose of saddle to lever hood: 78.2cm
Drop from saddle to handlebar top: 5.05cm
Crank length: 175mm

Canyon's fit tool sizes me at an XL using my height and inseam however I am worried about the length given my relatively short torso.

Thank you!