Keithinrl,
No trouble at all, happy to help. The numbers off the road bike won't help us prescribe the tri position - the frames are just too different, the body position is too different. You've given me some good leads and with long legs & lack of flexiblity like you've mentioned I'm confident I can get very close.

I think your Pad Y is roughly 635mm and your Pad X is ~455. To that end, the right Speedmax CF is...
a size small, the 70mm stem that comes on that bike should work perfectly. The bike comes with a box of goodies and in there will be some pedestal options (and appropriate bolts to go with them) to raise or lower the aerobars to get 'em perfect. There are multiple rows of bolt holes for the arm pads to move fore and aft and with those adjustments you should be able to find your perfect spot.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Allison,
We can work directly from Dan's X/Y with the upmost confidence....The 505 Pad X is going to be the challenge here, as you're already experiencing, and it makes sense with the long torso.
Speedmax SLX (this is the more "super bike" we're talkin' about here, not the CF)... the only option for you is a size large - here's the perscrition and caveots: you would have to get the long stem (long cockpit), the long extension, and move the pads forward 100%. And even then... the bike will max out at 503 while you want 505 so would I recomend is that you go to Rad Sport and get they're angle base spacer to add length to the bike (well beyond 505 with that). The Pad Y is easy for you to get, the seat height works (won't on the XL). The Rad Sport device also adds in tilt - loved by most.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Marko12041990,
Pics are tough on the ST Forum. I'm sorry about that but no worries, let's proceed with the very good info you've given.
I suspect your Pad Y is ~690 and Pad X is around 505. You, like so many, could fit on two sizes both a Large and XL.
If you got the size Large Speedmax CF... you would using the 90mm stem that comes stock on that bike and have a ton of room to bring the pads up and back from my guess of 690/505 and a little room to move the pads longer and lower (~20mm in both directions). If you got the XL (same 90mm stem comes stock on that bike), the Pad X of 505 is dead center on the bike (read: tons of room to move fore & aft) but the 690 that I'm assuming is absolutely SLAMMED - in fact I think the lowest the pads will go is 692mm. So, all the room in the world to go higher with pads but not lower.

You're tall and you have long legs - this suggests a position to me. If you want to error on the side of comfort in the aero positon or if you have some inflexibility in your posterior chain (hamstrings, glutes, lower back) or if this is your first tri bike - then I think the XL is a good choice. If you're a veteran, full bore racer for whom aero is most important then you should get the Large so you can get lower.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

hi guys; i am sepcing my canyon size M..i cant seem to find anywhere the stack of the base bar handles for the flat version i know raised is 40mm higher

cant choose betwen flat base bar and raised one... in short live in a place wtih rolling terrain and high wind gusts.. any advise? what is the aero penalty of the raised bars?

ian for your information: my cirrent roadie hoods are 88 cm from the ground 61.5 from bb, my current tt basebar nadles (p5) are 85 / 58.5 respectively

Hello Ian,

Thank you for very detailed and thoughtfull reply - I ll go with the XL then and revert once I test it.

Thanks again

R2,

This is a toughie for me. Are we talking Speedmax CF or Speedmax SLX/CFR?

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Hi Ian, it the later cf slx

If we could confirm what's the basebar grip height for CF slx size M would be great, is it the same as bike stack on geometry graph ?

Hi Ian,

I'd like to reach out to you again regarding the Speedmax. I could get my hand on a CF SLX 8 in Size XS and it will arrive soon :-) After having had the chance to talk to my bike fitter, I am a bit confused again and hope that you can help me out and/or give me some additional advise or thoughts on the fit of the bike. My fitter sees me between an XS and an S frame because she fears that the stack of the XS might be too low for me, but the reach of the S might be a little too long. Her tendency goes to an S frame, because of our discussion and the fitting of my road bike. I prefer to sit a little longer but less compact (squeezed). Any thoughts on this? I attach you my fitting results of my road bike to give you a better impression on my measures (in German but with pictures).

Many thanks!
Jen_X

Jen_X,
I understand the worry and hesitation; it's a big purchase (I mean, it's not a house, business, or education but it's big). I want to be careful in the terms we use because they matter: Stack and Reach refer to a place on the frame (top/center of the head tube) and when evaluating a road bike they are critical to determine the fit of the front end and what stem, spacers, and bar will perfect the fit. Pad Y and Pad X are the terms we use to asses where the front end of a triathlon bike will meet you - and while those places can relate to the Stack and Reach of the frame there are lots and lots of adjustable bits between the frame and pads that make the frame geometry less of a factor in the decision.

The pad height on your bike will be adjustable for you by using the spacers that come in the box. There's quite a range in the up/down of those pads. The cockpit distance will be adjustable within the range of stem that comes on the bike (and I recomended the short stem) by moving the arm cups fore/aft and there's quite a rage there too.

Let the XS come. Make your fitter work with you on this to see if it can be set up perfectly for you. I'm confident it's the right size.

Another thing... I wish your fitter had a dyanmic fit bike: you get on it, ride, they move the saddle up/down/fore/aft, they move the bars up/down/fore/aft until together you find your optimal position. From that we know your Pad Y and Pad X (rather than me guessing) and we know all your coordinates (seat hight, set back, pad width, etc. etc. etc.). Becasue we don't have that process we have me making an educated guess - not hard, long history of accuracy and success. The last step of finding your spot - without a dynamic fit bike - requires patience and work on behalf of your fitter. Here's what I mean - the bike will arrive with the mid spacer between the base bar and the aerobars. You ride that on the trainer for the fitter for a bit and together you decide it's pretty good. Your then ride for 2 weeks and wonder...could I ride lower? You take the bike back to the fitter and they remove the mid spacer and put in the low spacer. You ride for 2 weeks and you love it but wonder... would some tilt in the aerobars be better? You take the bike back to the fitter they pull the low spacer and rebuild the front end again, this time with some wedges so you've got the same hight but now with tilt. You ride 2 weeks and wonder somethign else. With a dynamic fit bike all those questions get answer in 15 minutes with tiny changes while you're pedaling. Without the dynamic fit bike it takes 6 weeks and 3+ hours of wrenching to figure it out. That's where the patience - for both you and your fitter has to be put to use. Do NOT settle for discomfort on this bike. For a tri bike to be right you need to be able to ride in aero for at least 20min without needing to come up and stretch or recover.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

R2,
I'm sorry. I should have known you were speaking of the SLX, the CF doesn't have an option of flat bar vs raised bar.

Okay here are my aswers...
I don't know the drag values between the flat and raised bars. I also prioritize drag lower on my list than most folks - below safety (which is alwasy #1 for me), below comfort (#2 for me), below ability to create power (#3 for me).

If you can tell me the Pad X of your position then we might discuss the spacing. For example if you ride a Speemax SLX size medium with a Pad X of 670 then the flat base bar will be ~75mm lower than the pads. If your Pad X is 595 then the brake levers will be ~15mm below the aerobars. Then you can math out the raised base bar from there to make our decision on far away you want those pursuit bars.

I leave you with one more note... in World Tour time trials (like the one that happed yesterday in the Tour de France) we very often see riders with flat base bars and what looks like half a meter of pedestal up to their aero bars. I would ask that not aim to emulate that - those athletes think a 40min TT is long and we often ride for 5 hours or more. Also, they aren't coming out of a swim on to their positon nor running off of it.

Ian

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

hi ian pad x (measured from the center of bb to top of the armpad) is 625

R2,
We got it reversed but I know what you mean: Pad Y is 625 and center of BB to top of pad is dead-on!

On the Medium Speedmax SLX you'll use the low spacer plus a little bit - which is super good becasue you can put one of the wedges in there for a little tilt in the aerobars. So you'll have ~40mm of space down to the flat bar or the arm pads will be ~level with the riser bar. I think think you'll want, need, or like the look of the riser bar with a Pad Y of 625. Go flat.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

thank you for your speedy help - mean i could finalise my order here and now!

Hi Ian,

Ive attached the dimensions from a prior fit I've had for a BMC TM01. Are you able to extrapolate this to the right sized Speedmax CF SLX (likely choice will be an 8 Di2 or 7 eTap).

Thankyou

Did your bike fitter ever have you try 155mm or 160mm cranks?

Hi Ian,

Currently on a size large Speedmax CF8 Disc Di2 and interested in upgrading to a CFR. I have completely maxed out the drop and reach with the stock parts on the CF8. The armpads are in the furthest forward and most narrow possible and all spacers have been removed on the basebars , aswell as the spacer beneath the stem.

Here are my measurements
height: 187cm
inseam: 87.5- 89cm (Hard to measure lol)
Pad Y: 665mm
Pad X: 545mm
Saddle height: 780mm
Saddle setback: +20mm

Pad measurements are from the back edge of the pad. The point of my elbow sits about ~2cm behind.

Fresh79,
Uggg.... it's so frustrating how many numbers there are on this fit sheet and yet... and yet... and yet...I can't seem to ... Let's discuss what we do have first!

• Seat Height 791 beautiful!
• Pad X to rear of pad...well, I see a cockpit: nose of saddle to center of pad at 530, and I see a set back of 7. So let's call Pad X to center as 537. It's a Zipp pad, they're ~100mm long so Pad X to rear is 487, cool!
• Pad Y... It's just not here. I see this 556 number that rises up from the center of the BB to...somewhere near the top of what might be a head tube on this bike but I can't find a geometry chart on the web that suggests this bike in any size had a Stack of 556 and even if that were a confirmable number I need to add some nubmer that goes from there to the top of the pad - it can't be the 442 because that would put your Pad Y at 998 (out of the realm of reality). I don't seen a pad drop in relation to the saddle. Maybe those two numbers in the upper right: 26mm is pad drop and 141?? UGGG!! I want to know!!!

Just to get some stuff off my chest.... I'm absolutely spell bound by the numbers on this fit sheet: crank length appears to be 173. How is that possible? I've seen 170, 172.5, and 175mm cranks (ps it's likely that your optimal crank length is 165 and that would have some effect on the Pad Y). Also, the wheel base is listed as 1036mm but in 2018 this bike in size large had a wheel base of 1038.

There's so much good stuff: set back at 7, type of saddle, tilt of saddle, length of saddle - Man I wish this sheet had a Pad Y on it!

Okay, look I have a Seat Height that I think we can trust. I have a Pad X that's within a few mm of dead-on. I need a Pad Y so here are my questions for you.... how tall are you and what's your inseam? And.... do you consider yourself the type of person who could be comfortable with really low pads, striving to look super aero, tucked up, wild and free or do you want to error on the side of comfort for long hours in aero (BTW I'm the later. Most age group triathletes should be the later).

Let me know and I'll come up with a logical Pad Y.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Correction... Pad X is 523 to center (subtracting 7mm setback, not adding) so Pad X to rear... call it 473

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks Ian!

Height is 190cm
Inseam is 83.5cm

Regarding your Q on positioning, I am going to prefer comfort over a slammed aero position.

I hadn't considered the irregularities in the fit file until you delved into it. I can only assume the tool has rounded up the crank length as the cranks were (bike is sold) 172.5mm. You're right on the wheelbase inconsistencies too... here is a link that shows the dimensions of the bike (my size is L): https://arcane-brook-43772.herokuapp.com/...mp;platform=1203#top

I sent the fit file to Canyon customer service, their advice was: "large size with the flat-long cockpit on the bike and long extension is the best set up on the Speedmax CF SLX/CFR model for you"

I have only ever ridden 172.5mm cranks. What is the advantage of reducing that to 165mm?

Thankyou for your help, sincerely appreciated!

bdvike,
Hmmm. Acording to my charts the lowest/longest the size Large CF will go is 665/528 so how you got out to 545 I do not know, but good on ya. If you went to a CFR.. the lowest longest a large will go is 620/503 (you can't make your saddle height on the XL). If you added the Rad Sport thang it would push this out to 543 in Pad X but I'm not 100% sure of how much lift it adds to the Y - maybe 30mm, so 650. You'd be almost exactly in your current position... but on a CFR.

Let's say your spot is 665/545 - take a look HERE at how long you ride compared to other humans.

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan

Thanks so much the reply Ian,

Exactly the confirmation I needed. I could have easily made an error in measurement... I am going to assume you are correct 😂 I have seen the radsport attachment on some bikes online where riders needed extra reach. I will definitely be adding that piece. Thank you for the reccomendation.

Have a great day!

Hi Ian,

Thank you very much for your detailed answer and explanation to my question and additional information on important measures and how they impact the fit of a TT bike. That’s very helpful.

Please apologize my late reply - I was out to ride my bike ;-)

Unfortunately, my fitter does not have a dynamic fitting bike to try all positions in advance. Nevertheless, I am very happy with her. She worked with the available data and will definitely help me to check if the ordered XS will fit me perfectly. If so, I will happily keep the bike, if not try to order the S. As suggested by you I will wait for its arrival. I will also search the web again to find a fitter with a dynamic bike - not so easy in tiny Luxembourg.

I will keep you posted!

Best,
Jen_X

One further Q... do I need to measure my forearm length in order to work out the appropriate Speedmax aerobar length?

Hey Ian,

Seat Height - 712mm
Pad X - 389mm
Pad Y - 653mm

Thanks so much!

Ericfa117,
Welcome to Slowtwitch Forum. I hope you use this whole site as a resource.

I have a question for you.... are you looking to get a Canyon Speedmax CF - their "mortal" bike or a Canyon Speedmax SLX -= their "super" bike? (and, BTW, the CRF is the super duper bike and it has the same fit specific elements as the SLX so, in terms of what we do on this thread, those bikes are the same). Or.. would you like me to prescribe for both CF and SLX and you can decide later?

Ian

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Ian Murray
http://www.TriathlonTrainingSeries.com
I like the pursuit of mastery
Twitter - @TriCoachIan