Classrooms of kids and shootings at lawmakers softball games have not done anything. I can’t envision something that would at this point.

Two weeks ago it was ruled CA can’t even ban semiautomatic sales to those under 21.

https://www.latimes.com/...titutional?_amp=true

Very Sad !
We are so fucked here in the USA nothing will change between the GOP Fascist Christian Nationalist GOD GUNS AND THE MILITARY INDUSTRIAL COMPLEX and the do nothing Democrats ☠️

It would only change when the Republicans are no longer in power. There is blood on the hands (again) of those who vote Republican.

We need the Dems to start taking this stuff seriously. These things never happen in good old boy states like Texas.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

What would you like to see done? Specifically.

How would you disarm America?

Would any guns be "allowed"?

Do you believe that plan is feasible?

Do you think Americans will give up their guns?

Would it provoke some degree of American civil war if the government attempts to take away the guns with force?

Obviously, wishing away guns or violence isn't going to do anything, and you'd have to alter the US Constitution which seems unlikely but it's certainly happened before.

Yeah, you're full of shit. Most republicans oppose school shootings as much as everyone else.

A lot of us to die off and hopefully our grandchildren will be able to clean up yet another of our embarrassments.

---

------------------------------
The first time man split the atom was when the atom tried to hold Jens Voigt's wheel, but cracked.

What do you propose that will have an absolute direct stop of mass shootings?

First, this bothers me as much as it does everyone else. It sickens me that people are capable of doing this. I would support any measure that would guarantee the end of any kind of shooting. I see people propose measures that punish law abiding citizens, but nothing that would put a stop to this.

100% gun confiscation would do it, but accomplishing that is impossible. We've outlawed alcohol, drugs and drunk driving, but it doesn't stop it. Sadly, guns are no different.

That's total bullshit. Republican politicians are universally opposed to policies that make these things less likely to happen - like in every other developed country in the world. Open your fucking eyes and look in the mirror if you vote for those people.

We don’t need to alter the US Constitution. Just look to what we have done before. We can do it again if we vote blue. The NRA & GOP are too tight.

The Brady Handgun Violence Prevention Act of 1993 addressed several key concerns of gun control advocates by requiring a five-day waiting period for all handgun sales, during which a background check was to be made on all prospective purchasers. This provision expired in 1998 and was replaced by the National Instant Check System (NICS), a database available for sellers to verify the eligibility of a buyer to possess a firearm. Within the first three years of the passage of the Brady Act, the FBI reported significant declines in homicides, robberies, and aggravated assaults involving guns. By 2013, the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence reported that the law had prevented over two million firearms sales to ineligible individuals. Moreover, between 1993, when the law’s background checks were implemented, and 2006, gun-related homicides fell by 32 percent. We should reinstate the 5 day waiting period.

President George H. W. Bush supported a major landmark in gun control in 1989 when his administration announced a permanent ban on importing assault rifles. Restrictions on assault weapons went further in 1994 when the federal government placed a ban on the manufacture and sale of specific models of assault weapons and various duplicates. The 1994 ban expired in 2004 when Congress failed to renew or replace it. We should reinstate the assault weapon ban.

Why not?

Most everyone is against mass shootings, school or otherwise, but half the country are strongly in favor of their causes.

---

"Are you sure we're going fast enough?" - Emil Zatopek

I have no idea what it will take, that is why I'm posing the question.

I will say I see no need for AR15's and the like to be in the hands of the general public. I'm not for banning all guns, but allowing every type of gun is beyond crazy. Interpret the constitution anyway you want, I don't believe the framers of the constitution meant for things to be as out of control as they are currently.

The framers only knew of muskets. They had no concept of modern guns. But we let imbeciles tell us otherwise.

The vast, VAST majority of gun violence is done with pistols. A very small percentage of gun violence is done with "assault rifles". I assume that the capacity and detachable magazines are the most objectionable feature.

I'll agree that AR is quite a lot of firepower to be available to the average person.

Well we see the supreme court is totally fine with ignoring some amendments like sixth, but because a bunch of people make money off of and are able to use it commit terrorism for the right cause, they interpret the 2nd amendment in the most fucking insane way possible.

Of course these "originalists" will ignore all the gun control the founders supported.

Or we can just be a normal fucking country where school kids are slaughtered on a regular basis and just amend the constitution.

I may be wrong, but muskets were also the modern weapon available at the time to the military. The founding fathers didn't put any provisions about having to be "less than" military type weapons so your comment is a bit misdirected.

You seem to be in the "thoughts and prayers" camp. What if anything in your mind should we do to stem the tide of mass shootings? Or, as another poster mentioned, this is just the price we pay for freedom.

You missed the point entirely. Muskets could not be used multiple times in rapid succession. If the founders knew of weapons that could be used in that fashion, they may very well have made the 2A more restrictive.

The founders also knew they were not perfect, so their big innovation was making it possible to change the constitution if they fucked up. It is very obvious the founders fucked up on lots and lots of things, so I wouldn't point to what they thought as a strong argument, even they knew they could be totally wrong.

Wellm, they may oppose school shootings, but not enough to you know, do anything about it.

Maybe because what has been proposed wouldn't actually do anything to stop them. Like I said in my other post; I would gladly support something that would actually stop them and all shootings, but nothing that has been proposed would actually do that.

Do you support the legal use of alcohol? If so, then you have blood on your hands when someone drives drunk and kills other people. More people are killed by drunk drivers than non-self-inflicted deaths from guns. What do you propose to stop the drunk driving deaths?

So you don’t believe that having gun laws like the UK or Canada wouldn’t significantly reduce school shootings?

You're incorrect.

I'm asking for a plan, not an idea.

"Remove guns" is as much value as "thoughts and prayers".

A plan.

CMM laid out some concrete plans. She's the only one so far.

Fine, do what Australia did. Is that not enough of a solid plan?

Equating mass shootings with drunk driving is disingenuous. How many drunk drivers have you read about driving into an elementary school killing students in the school?

What did Australia do that resulted in an "absolute direct stop of mass shootings?"

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

The majority of these seem to be committed by young men. I'd say it's fairly obvious that it is too easy for young men to get firearms, and, really, there aren't very many good reasons for them to have them. Painting with a broad brush but that's the only way to get anything done. FWIW, I purchased (strawman, through my dad) my first handgun when I was 17 (it was the 3rd firearm in my collection) so I'm being a hypocrite maybe, but looking back there was no real "need" there, just country fun, and this was long before Columbine.

Strict liability for anyone who owns a firearm. This means, if I own a weapon and keep it responsibly secured in a high end gun safe (which I do), yet someone breaks into my house while I'm on vacation and steals it by cutting open the safe...I'm liable for whatever deeds are done with it....I could become an accessory to murder. I think this would make a lot of people re-think their ownership and storage habits, making ownership a lot less common and storage a lot more secure.

We’re not going to make any headway on gun violence unless we start making incremental changes. We won’t be able to guarantee perfect results, right? We’re making a more perfect union, so let’s work on improving without getting caught up in perfectionism.

Fewer guns, waiting periods, and liability insurance requirements seem like a reasonable first effort. Who is campaigning on unfettered gun rights? The GOP.

Vote blue.

A mandatory buyback. OK. Gun registry. OK. Both would require changing the constitution. OK, it's possible.

Australia's plan reduced privately owned firearms by 20%.

Assuming the same success rate here, which is doubtful, you're left with maybe 300 million guns in circulation.

It seems reasonable that people with ill intentions would be less likely to comply with the law.

What do you think would happen with a door to door campaign to confiscate a couple hundred million US owned firearms?

Maybe people would bluster but then comply. Maybe there would be limited violence. Maybe there would be civil war or even secession?

What's your best guess?

All of this is to get rid of guns.

What other options are there to reduce mass shootings?

It’s not just the gun laws. You have gun culture. You have people that worship the 2nd Amendment.

I can get a gun, it’s not that difficult.

---

How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

I don’t think you saying that gun owners may start murdering people and not comply with the law is a great argument against gun control. Isn’t that a great argument fo gun control? We need to get guns out of these maniacs hands and the sooner the better.

What are gun owners currently doing to prevent these maniacs from getting guns? Or are they cheering them on with big rally’s?

It’s ok to just admit that Americans are unwilling to do the things that other countries have done with measured success.

But if nothing happened after Sandy Hook, then nothing will ever change here in the US. So… thoughts and prayers to the families, and move on to the next one.

Zeroism is an impossible goal. It's stupid to even try. But that is not an excuse to do nothing.

Maybe I wasn't clear, but I do believe there would be incredible amounts of violence against law enforcement (or the military) or whomever would be actually going door to door to confiscate guns in America. Law enforcement of some sort would be walking into literally millions of ambush scenarios and would face a pretty incredible armed resistance from non compliant citizens.

Why would they not follow the law? Isn’t it really bad that there are all these people that are willing to murder and not follow the law?

In the highly unlikely scenario that the constitution is amended and there is a ban on most kinds of guns, I think most citizens would comply because - by definition - a majority of the population would be in favor of this. Most gun owners would hand in their guns and those that don’t would face the risk of being caught with an illegal gun at a later date. I don’t see a scenario where law enforcement officers are going door to door searching for and confiscating guns.

But it’s all hypothetical because it’s never going to happen.

In the US, now?
Nothing. We could have 2-4 such school shootings a day for the next 3 years and the republicans would still fight tooth nail and for their lives to keep the gun laws as loose as possible. No concessions from them. Ever. Prove me wrong.

I don't think many of us would be willing to stop driving cars in order to eliminate drunk drivers. For responsible gun owners, that's what it would feel like to be forced to give up their guns. I think many people would refuse.

Some concessions may be available for capacity limitations if I were to guess. California hasn't had much of a revolution with significant capacity restrictions. Having said that I am aware of many (relatively speaking) people that either move away from CA or simply would never move to CA due to gun laws. If the same laws were attempted nationally, and people wouldn't have the choice to simply move or avoid a certain area, there would likely be significantly more resistance or push back.

If you’re right, the number of gun people who don’t have respect for the law is astounding to me. Those criminals deserve punishment. They should have just complied.

I don't think you can place it completely on Republican leadership, even though it's easy to demonize them (especially in the LR). Even without Republican leadership concessions, and specifically against their wishes, there are certain states with significant gun restrictions. It has happened. There are examples. The bottom line is that the gun control advocates simply don't have the votes across the country.

I'm sure people said the same thing about the Civil Rights movement.

This kid, who by some initial accounts, seems to have been a little troubled, walked into a gun store upon turning 18 years old, and had no issue buying a gun. I think the majority of the population is in favor of some controls that would stop this kid being able to have done that. There is only one political party he’ll bent on stopping such measures being implemented. Stop kidding yourself.

There is no line. If there was, we crossed it a long time ago.

Absolutely nothing will change.

---

Suffer Well.

I would fully support buyback and registry.

Buyback would be more successful if done at 5x market rate or something. Expensive? Yes. Worth it? Yes.

---

Eliot
blog thing - strava thing

People said the same thing about mandatory seat belt laws, but now everyone just gets on and puts their seat belts on, for the most part. Most people have better things to do with their lives, even current gun owners.

Disagree. NRA has owned the republican party for the past 30-40 years. There will be no action.

It's no coincidence that the Russian intelligence targeted the NRA.

What kind of controls exactly? Would they have helped in this case?

What are the unintended consequences to the 99.99999% of gun owners who never commit acts of violence with a firearm?

Assume that you can look at the issue with genuine interest in reform without obliterating the rights of those who don't share your view/bias.

I'd google the guy but I don't want to give the pathetic cunt the satisfaction/notoriety that he obviously sought.

The only reference to the actual gun(s) I've seen said "a handgun and possibly a rifle".

Nice catch, Einstein.

A democracy is a country where the will of the people is expressed through its laws. The vast majority of Americans support common sense gun laws. It silly that you think a constitutional amendment is necessary for common sense gun laws. It’s silly that you think threats of violence from the gun-loving criminals is a valid argument against common sense gun laws.

What other pretend hurdle is there in the way of gun law reform? Our hands are tied and we have to accept gun deaths because…?

It’s the GOP and gun-loving culture. Fuck that bullshit.

If a person votes for a 2A candidate, then that person is voting for gun violence. Firearms became the leading cause of death among children and teenagers in the United States in 2020, according to new research using data from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention.

The finding comes after a record 45,222 people died from firearm-related injuries in 2020 in the U.S., according to a letter published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Most of the deaths were from firearm homicide. https://www.usatoday.com/...ens-2020/7432860001/

Our hands are not tied. We have to vote the bullshit gun-nuts out.

What are the unintended consequences? Are you afraid you might have to take up arms against MAGA and their insurrections?

We have the rule of law in America— unless the the GOP fucks democracy completely. In which case, fuck you even more for fighting against gun control and arming the motherfucking MAGA and their Meal Team Six.

Chip every gun. Provide school and LE the ability to disable any gun at anytime.

The vast majority of mass shootings are perpetrated by the white conservative terrorists. I don’t know what rot exists in that culture but I think we should be honest that it exists.it needs to be rooted out within.

Exactly - Imagine a police officer making 50-60k (just a guess) going door to door in Chicago/Detroit etc. looking for unregistered guns. (after all - those are already illegally owned) All the lefties would be up in arms the first time the police got in a gun fight with a minority with an unregistered gun.

Start there, clean up the guns that are currently illegally owned and then come after the ones that are legally owned.

Enforce the laws already in place.

That's a plan. All of on the left approve of that plan?

Well, you tried to be a mature adult so I'll give you credit for the initial effort.

Based on my understanding, the "common sense" gun laws that you describe butt up against the 2nd amendment. So, in order to enact them and for them to stand, the US Constitution would have to be amended. Is that incorrect? It's happened before. There's a clearly defined mechanism.

Vote away. If there was such overwhelming support, as you claim, wouldn't things look a bit different?

It 100% can be done with votes from the "vast majority of Americans".

If the amendments happened, and the laws were changed, THEN you'd have to deal with resistance or non compliance. Until then, it's about public support, which you claim to have. So???

How does one "chip every gun"?

They're not electronic devices. They're not wifi enabled. This is the most ridiculous thing I've heard yet.

It's hard to have an honest conversation with someone who evidently has near zero understanding of the thing they're trying to regulate.

99% of people aren't reckless drivers, but we make people register vehicles and get licensed.

Does it stop accidents or people from getting killed? No.

Does it prevent mayhem and many people from dying needlessly? Yes.

There isn't a solution that will ensure responsible gun owners aren't adversely affected. In Australia we have strict gun laws since the Port Arthur massacre 25 years ago. I'm not sure what the laws are specifically, but they are very strict and certainly high powered, automatic military grade guns are banned. I think the perpetrator used an SLR and AR-15. Weapons like these are not legal in Australia. If the US adopted similar laws, this would mean responsible gun owners are affected. But it's probably what needs to happen. It would be extremely difficult for me to get my hands on any kind of gun, even a small handgun, legally or illegally in Australia. Shouldn't that be the case in the US? Can you not fire guns at gun clubs? The owners have to leave their weapons there?

I think you're correct in that there's no way to do both.

If we can just outlaw abortion there will be an increased supply of babies to replace those that get their heads blown off in school.

So it will all even out eventually.

(Sorry the hopelessness of hearing all of the same arguments and knowing guns for dead kids is a trade off plenty are fine with makes me punchy).

That's total bullshit. Republican politicians are universally opposed to policies that make these things less likely to happen - like in every other developed country in the world. Open your fucking eyes and look in the mirror if you vote for those people.


Like in 2009 when the Democrats had the White House, Super Majority in the House, and 60 seats in the Senate.
Here's a list of Gun Control Measures passed under Speaker Pelosi in 2009:




Gun Control like Abortion raises too much money for both sides to do anything about it but raise money.

My memory is hazy, but didn’t Obama essentially put all his chips on getting Obamacare passed? Immigration and/or gun reform at that time simultaneously with the ACA would have been impossible.

Do you think banning guns will make illegal guns go away?

Do you believe the government should be able to take the right to own something away for any item if a few misuse it to cause harm to others or self?

The don’t have a conversation. The ability to not reply isn’t hard. But you needed to insult me so I suppose that makes not replying an impossibility for you.

For those who are serious about this, it is entirely possible to chip a gun. Smart guns certainly exist.

And while there would be plenty of nonchipped guns out there I am willing to bet that the weapons used today were purchased after Sandy hook.

Let's talk about extreme options:

1. Why not re-open the mental hospitals and institutions that Reagan shut.
2. Why not automate life sentence if you are found in illegal possession of a firearm?
3. 5 day waiting period, 1 Approved Safety and training class, 3 references (willing to co-sign for liability).
4. National registry (O.k. this one isn't extreme and I don't know why it is such a big deal).
5. Ban on owning firearms if you have received mental health services, with a DB somewhere to track such information. (Yes I know this is an invasion of privacy, but we are trying to stop mass shootings right?)

How about starting with having to be 21 to buy a gun?

And part of the problem with guns in this country is the sheer number and availability of them. Sure, most are owned by law abiding citizens, and they don’t use them to kill people, but the easy availability and large quantities of guns means our rates of gun deaths are far above those of other western countries. As Zed says about Australia, he can no longer buy an AR-15, but look at the consequences in terms of far fewer gun deaths. Or is it so important that he should be allowed to buy an AR-15 so he can shoot some tin cans at the weekend that Australians should tolerate mass shootings? Because that seems to be the crux of your argument for gun ownership here in the US.

Lots of people drive without license, registration or insurance....despite the fact that it's illegal.

There are also some states that actually have no license or registration requirements and also have some of the lowest deaths per capita by firearm in the US.

"No smart gun has ever been sold on the commercial market in the United States" Smart guns do not exist in any real way any more than flying cars exist. Your suggestion is absurd and suggests a lack of basic understanding.

extreme options.....

I am telling you right now equal to the guns is the internet and cable tv.

These whack jobs sit at home on the internet feeding their mental illness with other like minded mentally deranged individuals and other instigators. Each shooting feeds the next one. With 350 million Americans the supply of said individuals is more than adequate to continue the madness indefinitely.

Shut down the 24 hour news cycle on it. Take over the internet China style. I don't know just venting a bit and I am reminded of a quote from my Dad after 9/11 that I believe is from Benjamin Franklin.

"those who are willing to forgo essential liberty for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety"

-- something like that.

Poor Ben never saw an AR.

Certain classes of weapons are banned and guess what? They are pretty much never used to commit crimes.

What a specious argument. You’re better than that.

As someone who is from Northern Mexico and has lived through all the drug wars and cartel violence I can tell you banning guns doesnt make the illegal ones go away.

---

2x Deca-Ironman World Cup (10 Ironmans in 10 days), 2x Quintuple Ironman World Cup (5 Ironmans in 5 days), Ultraman, Ultra Marathoner, and I once did an Ironman.

Would you say the current rate of dead school kids is an acceptable amount given the key constitutional rights their deaths are protecting? Is there an amount of dead school children at which we should consider changes? Or is the 2nd amendment so important to the fabric of our country that even 100x the current rate of dead school children is okay - because the 2nd amendment is what guarantees our freedom and without it we have nothing?

That was exactly it, also the 60 votes in the Senate was only around less than 9 months,

In reality they wasted a bunch of time being jerked around by Republicans on the ACA. Democrats were desperate to get Republicans on board, even though they did not need them, so they wasted so much time. But Republicans were not dealing in good faith, they just wanted to gum up the works.

Why the need to control the item rather than a desire to deal with the root cause? Knife deaths are three times more prevalent in Europe than firearm deaths...leading for some to call for a ban on knives.

As I've always said. You can throw a pile of weapons, military grade or otherwise into a group of responsible emotionally stable people and no one will get hurt. You can drop a plastic spork into a prison yard...and someone's going to get shanked.

The problem is not the gun, the problem is the people. Mabey, just maybe, if we spent more time on trying to prevent people from getting to the point of wanting to kill other people, guns would no longer be an issue.

Like I said it doesn't stop accidents or illegal behavior. Zeroism is an impossible goal.

And comparing across states is a poor analysis because rural populations have a completely different dynamic from dense urban populations.

Which states are you talking about?

Liability (and subsequent insurance/costs) tactics seem to be more likely but would require 2a amendment I think.

Until a senior lawmaker's child is actually gunned down, and it finally hits home, they will gladly take NRA money

Oh wait, they'll blame someone else, and continue to do nothing

---

"What's your claim?" - Ben Gravy
"Your best work is the work you're excited about" - Rick Rubin

How about we hold people responsible? You bought your kid a gun and he kills someone (Crumbleys), you’re responsible. Your buddy/girlfriend/kid took your gun from your nightstand? You’re responsible. Someone stole it from your car? You’re responsible (though this is more of a gray area).

People who responsibly own and store guns are not the problem. However, people who are part of the problem should be held accountable.

It took the President being shot to get the Brady Law passed, and even then it was a fight.

The President of the USA being shot for crying out loud.

I think that something that would make an immediate impact is to stop naming the cowards. I think that most shooters do it for the notoriety. Stop showing their pictures and giving their names. Let them die or go to jail in absolute anonymity. Refer to them as "The Parkland Coward" but never name them.

It does me no good whatsoever to know their name, so stop giving them the fame they seek. I think that many of them would reconsider if they knew that their name would just disappear from society.

There may be a few who are so corrupt and broken that they just want to kill, but many are doing it for the notoriety. Stop giving them what they want.

Agree 100%, though I wouldn't put them in jail. I think we should be far more creative, cruel, and brutal for these kinds of "people".

Smart guns exists. Your knowledge of the subject appears to be the first sentence in Wikipedia that you quoted ( verbatim no less). They are commercially unavailable because…. The gun lobby does like them. So what “basic understanding,” do you think I lack? I am looking for specifics.

It would take a decade for this to have a real impact. Sandy hook was a decade ago.

Look forward to the next thread exactly like this one after the next school shooting. I get it. It makes people feel good to discuss what could help. Nothing will be done in our lifetimes. Maybe our grandchildren will be wiser.

This. The Dems should just stop talking. The only people who can change anything are the NRA. They hold all the power and all the responsibility. Anyone else saying anything is a futile waste of time and possibly votes.

How many times in this thread have you said we can't do something because of 2A? You seem to be less concerned about the 8th.

Yeah, that's why people use " "... They're commercially unavailable because they're a useless gimmick. As far as I can tell, you lack all of the basic understanding. All of it. There are 400 million guns and quite frankly, guns aren't very difficult to machine/manufacture. "Chipping a gun" is about as useful as a self defense unicorn.

Under certain circumstances of obvious guilt, I'm zero % concerned about the 8th.

There are 2 states, Virginia and New Hampshire.

https://en.wikipedia.org/...tional_homicide_rate,

Sort of an interesting correlation you're making but while sort of true, also not entirely true.

You are right, there are millions in circulation, so there will be little impact up front.

I would love to see the Red Flag Laws, gun confiscation for people who commit certain crimes, or who are cited for offenses deemed and determined as negligence, as outlined.

This doesn't punish reponsible owners. It doesn't deny someone access who goes through proper channels. But it creates a long needed accountability.

I'll have genuine conversations about gun control. Honestly. I truly understand and find some merit in SOME of the arguments for gun control.

Will you train with and carry a concealed firearm? Will you accept that responsibility? Or is this an instance of "they" should do something???

Why don't these guys attack/shoot up a police station? Why do they always choose soft targets where they KNOW that nobody will shoot back?

The government can't save you from everything.

I can't legislate away evil, but I can fight back.

Until the laws are changed and guns are gone (which may be necessary), are you just going to wait? Do nothing other than blame the Republicans or the NRA? Hope and pray?

What are you going to do?

Nothing.

Sorry, not going anywhere near a school with a gun. Not happening, ever. Unless I was a police or security officer.

Obviously not in a school. There are rules ya know...

Why don't you think this happens at anywhere near this rate in other developed countries?

In other words you have no idea why this is a bad idea other than you feel that it is and you think by talking tough and insulting me you are making your point.

For the record, 99.999% of gun owners are not law abiding. There are over 500,000 crimes with firearms per year. So 5 million per decade. How many are repeat offenders, I don’t know, but I would think the numbers add up to maybe 1-2% of gun owners are violent offenders. So closer to 1/100 than 1/100,000.

it would take a decade for this to make an impact. Sandyhook was a decade ago. Any solution that someone proposes for tomorrow is a unicorn.

I don't think that would be enough because your country has so many guns in circulation.

I think, in addition to gun laws like Canada or the US have, you need to do something about the absolutely insane amount of firearms in circulation in your country. How you accomplish that, I have no idea.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

Easy. We can use a carrot instead of a stick.

The govt can buy them off people. Maybe at 2x or 3x their market price. People will line up for miles to cash out.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

You might be right.

The real problem is people believing that resolving temporary problems is to use a permanent solution.

Your last paragraph is nonsense. The US is not special. You have a much higher gun homicide rate because you have more guns. So yes, guns are the problem. To say otherwise is to be fooled by NRA nonsense. Fewer guns equals less gun violence. End. Of. Story.

---

===============
Proud member of the MSF (Maple Syrup Mafia)

If you look at what happened and think everyone is focused on something that isn't the real problem, I really don't know what to tell you.

---

Long Chile was a silly place.

Whatever makes you sleep better at night. I think we should have more guns in schools. That way they aren’t soft targets anymore. That would make me sleep better.

What temporary problem are people wanting to resolve?

So on the day when 14 kids are murderers you are advocating for people to arm themselves.

Thank you for making your position clear.

What are you saying in this thread?

Are you actually saying that gun violence is something that our government cannot protect us from?

Why do you carve gun violence out from all the things that government protects us from?

The government’s role is to help secure our health and liberty. It protects us against foreign enemies. It protects us against sickness & disease, against unsafe food & medicine, against environmental hazards & toxins, against defective buildings, against all crimes (except gun violence apparently), against fire & natural disasters.

Why don’t you expect government to protect children from gun violence?

My position is that 2A gun nuts are responsible for our lack of common sense gun laws, which in turn is killing kids.

What is your position?

The point he is making is to totally untrue. He is implying that controlling the amount of guns does not after.

Households with guns are more likely to suffer from gun violence.

Per capita gun ownership correlate to gun violence on every level: city, state, country.

His solution to gun violence is more guns. Because he has deluded himself into believing that gives him control when statistical evidence says otherwise.

The people who argue that guns are not the problem apparently ignore the fact that America is the western society that has a far higher rate of gun deaths and also is the society with far more guns in the population. Guns which are easily available to any adult.

There’s no point in engaging with them because they live in a fantasy land where every other issue should try to be solved except the one staring us in the face. Ban video games. Build more mental institutions and lock anyone up who posts anything threatening on social media, just in case they’re about to shoot up a mall or school. Stop people from getting angry enough to kill other people by….

I mean, I have to quote this for it’s sheer naïvety:

“Maybe, just maybe, if we spent more time on trying to prevent people from getting to the point of wanting to kill other people, guns would no longer be an issue.”

Yeah exactly. These threads on gun violence, mass shootings etc just end up going nowhere. People start quoting the 2nd amendment, talking about how guns don't kill people, people kill people, knives are just as dangerous and other bullshit. It's simple. You guys have way too many guns. You have access to very powerful, automatic guns. You can get a gun very easily. Those 3 things need to change and shouldn't be up for debate.

The US is special because their gun culture and worship is fucked. Because of this gun culture people think a gun is an acceptable ‘solution’ to a problem. The guns allow mass killings with relative ease.

Good post!

I carve gun violence out from the excellent list you mention based on the fact that it only takes one evil individual and a relative simple and common machine (400 million!) to carry it out. The rest of the list is based on large systemic concerns in which government oversight is much more valuable and effective. Similar to how a modern powerful military is insanely powerful against opposing military forces, yet struggles against local guerilla warfare. Systems are effective for systems but will struggle against isolated individuals, and vice versa.

I appreciate efforts of the US government to keep me safe, but fundamentally, it's primarily my responsibility.

No legislation will remove an evil individual attempting to do harm.

Maybe the ultimate answer is gun control. How long is that going to take? Realistically?

Maybe the US isn't special, but it is unique. So many opposing and even enemy cultures in one place, such a clash of wealth/poverty, different religions with millenia of conflict all brought into one mixed up region with a government based around individual freedoms? Shove all of those people into small places (urban environments) in a place that is fundamentally violent (culturally), and some bad things will happen. The US is a grand experiment. Could be argued that it's failing. I'd probably agree. There's a ratio of responsibility:freedom that our citizens are fucking up royally.

Not really full of shit. Republican politicians, like all politicians, are a different breed than the self identified followers of a party. There are plenty of Republican voters going apeshit over what happened today, as any sane, intellectually honest, responsible person is. Unfortunately the current Republican political class is not any of these things. Either is their faction of the media. Democrats do a bunch of stupid things,, but understanding that the American violence narrative needs to be dealt with is not one of them.

I actually think the solution is a combination of proper gun control (sorry one does not really need military grade assault rifles, no matter what they think) but even more importantly, we need to figure out how to get our American society back on track so we don’t produce a ridiculous amount of evil psychotic narcissistic/sadistic assholes.

It to get there is an almost impossible task. Again, the Republican political class is zero sum on this issue, preferring to invoke thoughts and prayers. The current Democratic political class is either weak or too far left and also zero sum.

Like everything, this is solved in the center.

Did you hear that the shooter engaged with police at the school before he went inside to kill kids? Your good guy with a gun fantasy is a fucking fantasy. It isn’t a solution. https://twitter.com/...P0Pr9twJ1c_y3OjnOKxw

Did you hear that parents are getting DNA swabbed this afternoon to help identify the destroyed and unrecognizable bodies of their kids? https://twitter.com/...P0Pr9twJ1c_y3OjnOKxw

Your idea that avoiding gun violence is a matter of personal responsibility seems pretty crass.

Your views about government don’t appear grounded in reality— in terms of constitutionality, the benefits of gun laws, and the reasons we don’t have gun laws. Your nonsense is particularly aggravating to read within the first 12 hours after a school shooting. It has not been a pleasure.

This is a reasonable proposal. I don’t know why it seems so impossible. It’s easy enough to identify the NRA gun-fetishizing political candidates. They have to be defeated.

As far as extremism and people getting radicalized (which I think is what happens to these shooters), I don’t know how that gets tackled.

Jesus tap dancing christ, you understand that this is supposed to be satire and not something you are supposed to seriously say?

Was the police officer at the school armed or not?

What will it take to change the law?

When a classroom full of lawmaker's kids are gunned down. Seriously.

The question I’d be asking is that though a border patrol agent who is presumably well trained in the tactics required to engage an active shooter took this dude down, is it really a reasonable assumption that the avg person who’s only real experience is laying down 4-500 for a decent gun has the natural ability to do the same thing? Statistics say no. I just think “good guy with a gun” is a fantasy and thus not really safe for anyone.

Every single gun has a serial number and is registered to an individual. Anything associated with that gun, regardless of theft or any other potential for it to go missing, is the responsibility of whoever’s name matches the number on the gun used. You have to register the guns every 2 or 5 years. If that gun is missing, you lose the rest of your guns and are fined for irresponsibility.

Not a single gun is made without a specific name being attached to the purchase order.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

What statistics?

As I type this there are 18 families that know their child is dead, and their child's body is a room waiting to be identified with DNA supplied from toothbrushes and hairbrushes, etc.
Their bodies torn to pieces.
The 'shooter' was wearing armor - and there were cops also armored who were wounded.
There doesn't appear to be a good guy with a gun solution - that's not working, did not work in Buffalo.

Nothing will change until idiots stop saying “they are coming for our guns”.

After Dunblane the firearms restrictions in UK were changed to stop people like that having guns. The only way it is going to change is if you accept the system is wrong. I cannot remember a female school mass murderer but I am sure there are some. Why aren’t the parents reporting their disturbed adolescents and removing the arms?

The only other choice is to turn your schools into fortresses so that when they are attacked the classrooms become shelters.

I’d start with LE v suspects then move on to us military v almost everyone else, w/r/t light arms firefights. There’s plenty of examples of trained v not trained or less trained.

Please share links. Interested in reading more.

I guess in the US you have the problem that many criminals are armed, so law-abiding citizens also want to be armed. Which is fair enough. But that then means there are still a crapload of guns out there. It's going to be hard to sell to the public that they have to give up their guns and their ability to protect themselves and their families.. In Australia 99% of perpetrators of violent crimes such as burglaries, car-jackings, muggings etc are committed by people that are not armed with a gun. So people don't feel the need to carry guns. I think if I lived in the US, I'd want to be armed.

So I guess the first thing that needs to happen is take illegal guns of the streets. Law-abding citizens then feel safe and are happy to give up their guns. But yeah, as you said, how long is that going to take? And is it even possible? I don't know about the specific gun laws in the US. I know some states have mandatory sentencing for criminals that are carrying guns? If not then this would be necessitated.

Going back to your original question - how long is it going to take? Two generations perhaps? But it needs to start somewhere.

The absolute ghouls that run Texas actually make it impossible for the teachers union to say that their pension fund can't invest in gun manufactures.





So have fun teachers, your pension can't refuse to invest in the company that makes the gun that kills you.

No it wouldn't require changes to the 2nd amendment, just interpreting in not an absolutely batshit manner the current politicians on SCOTUS do.

Also leads to so many more problems. Like them doing no knock raids or raids at night to catch everyone off guard. It leads to them thinking someone holding a wallet is holding a gun and killing an innocent person.

Once again American cops should be the biggest advocates of getting rid of guns in America, not only would it make their jobs safer, they would not end killing so many unarmed people because they think they were armed. But for some reason they don't advocate for that, almost like they don't actually care about those things...

Yes, shocking I know that the cops in Texas were armed:



I guess a good guy with a gun couldn't stop a bad guy with a gun, in fact three good guys with guns couldn't stop a single bad guy. I guess next time we need at least four good guys with guns for every bad guy.

We just need to admit that as a society we love the idea of being able to buy a gun any time we want more than we hate gun violence.

Study - https://www.nejm.org/.../NEJM199310073291506

after study - https://www.science.org/...1126/science.aan8179

after study - https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29521806/

(and really, this is just barely scratching the surface)

shows having a gun in the house makes the household less safe. In households with guns suicides are multiple times higher, gun murder and violence are higher, responding to a situation with a gun leads to more injury



Only 30% of people in the US own guns. Around 45% of households have guns. Gun ownership rose sharply during the pandemic but murders and gun violence skyrocketed. If the good guy with a gun myth had any validity we should be seeing it by now. But we don't. Because it isn't true.

We have people go on tirades about gun violence in Chicago in one breath and decry the concept of gun control even though they have no desire to own a gun with the next.

We don't care. We let a small minority of people perpetuate the fantasy that the cowboy will ride in and save the day, 6 guns blazing. It's all a lie. But keeping that fantasy alive is more near and dear to the American psyche than the prospect of having fewer people shot and killed or injured.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

So did the coward kill himself, or did a good guy with a gun kill him?

And stop throwing out strawmen. I don't think that anyone is saying that a good guy with a gun will always stop a bad guy with a gun. There are plenty examples of that exact thing happening at times, but I don't think anyone is saying that it will happen every time.

There are plenty of arguments to be made, quit using this thinking that it proves some point.

Because the cops would be the ones going door to door to take them. This whole thread is full of “wanted results” but no ideas to actually go get the illegally owned guns.

Making it illegal will not change a thing. Murder is already illegal. What’s the plan and who’s going to carry it out is the issue if you want to “take” guns away.

You're mistaken. I got an idea, and it will work. It's actually easy, we can use a carrot instead of a stick.

The govt can buy them off people. Maybe at 2x or 3x their market price. People will line up for miles to cash out.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

I think most people who are for gun control don't want to take guns away from people.

They just want to make sure that people are vetted and trained.

Is it going to stop gun violence? No

But most think it's a reasonable step in the right direction.

This is just another BS strawman argument against doing anything. There are plenty of common sense gun laws we can enact in this country to make us significantly safer.

And even if some guns are banned altogether (which they should be), no one has to go door to door to wrestle them out of people’s hands. Comply with the law, or face a fine if later found not to have done. Most will simply comply.

I'm sure that will take some out of law abiding citizens hands and lower the total population, but are those the ones causing the bulk of the problem?

Do you think any of the "current" criminals that use them for their chosen profession will sell them?

It probably isn't going to change until we stop voting for these people. We are getting what we ask for.

Most comply with our laws now. Murder is already illegal. Its the ones that don't comply that are the problem. I'm all for enforcing the laws we have now. Start there.

Your argument is weak. It is similar to arguing against seatbelt laws because some people won’t follow them. Yet those laws have proven effective. Some criminals will always have guns as they do in other countries. But making them scarce and expensive will reduce their use.

I don't know, but l think yes. Or, we could try a survey.

At this point, what we are doing ain't working. So, it is most def worth a try.

It could even be free to taxpayers. If we stop the idiotic moronic failed ONE TRILLION DOLLAR drug war, we can use the money saved to buy back the guns. Then take the steel and aluminum, melt it down, and build some nice electric minivans or something.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

Yes, the police officers and the school safety officer were all armed and trained. They were not able to take down the shooter. The guy who did take him down was no ordinary boarder patrol agent but part of an elite tactical unit. He was wounded in the exchange.

We've heavily regulated fully automatic machine guns. Sure, the mafia and some gangs still have them but this kid wasn't able to buy one on his 18th birthday and kill 5 times more children than he did. Regulating guns works.

Don't know. Tipping points are usually not anticipated. The shooters at Sandy Hook, Buffalo and now Texas all under 20. Restricting access to guns to those over 21 would seem a logical first step. If they want to go hunting they could go with an adult supervision and a loaner.

---

They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I won't get too much into the ad nauseum repetitive debate with folks about either physically controlling the firearms or the cash for schools to do something or mental health.........but just answer the question............

Much like Covid, or Spanish Flu, or WW1 or WW2, or other events..............it has to ruin enough people's lives concurrently and rapidly enough that it is no longer acceptable to continue as-is.

That's where we are in the US, we're so self-absorbed that unless it stands to ruin our lives as we know it or finally reaches out to touch us in some horrible way..............we don't give a fuck.

So there's my answer.

As for "what does the US future look like"? I had this sad dream as a high schooler of the US growing into mass transit, green energy, innovative and inclusive safe education systems, and in general..............a less violent self absorbed society.

Now? I see it being one major economic failure away from a more wild west zombie show shoot em up kind of future instead. Think of the books "Parable of the Sower" and "Parable of the Talents". I pray that woman didn't get it right.

So you’re ok with a troubled 18 year old kid buying guns on his 18th birthday as easily as he can buy a smoothie? He complied with all our laws right up until he killed 19 kids.

Tell the parents of those kids that makes sense. And imagine it was one of your kids who died at school aged 10. I can guarantee your stance on guns would have changed if it was one of your kids.

 

Cops around the country actually confiscate a shit load of illegal guns already. A single major municipality can seize thousands of guns owned illegally or used in crimes in a single year. It's pretty reasonable to expect that if we do a better job of controlling the methods where guns go from legal to illegal (e.g. strawman purchases, theft, etc), eventually the amount of illegally owned guns would dwindle.

You should have mentioned Maine too. Lax laws.
However, both Mass and RI have some of the strictest laws in the country and are top 10 lowest per capita.

anyway, proposal 1:

Only gun clubs can purchase ammunition.

Proposal 2:

Guns can only be kept at gun clubs.

Proposal 3:

Ban the sale of ammunition

Proposal 4:

make Mass laws nationwide, but fuck Maura Healey.
(MA requires a license to buy or own any firearms. The license is given out by the local PD and requires approved training. There are two levels, low cap rifles and pistols + "high cap" rifles. The AG [Healey] approves pistols to a register.)

Wow.

Telling it like it is.

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

What makes more sense? Arm & train every person in the world, fortify every building in the world, station security guards in every nook and cranny in the world? Or restrict or manage reasonably military style weapons and ammo?

Agree, I can't see how any wide scale gun confiscation would work.

While people like to toss around the term "Gun nuts" the reality is most gun owners are normal, rational, people who support keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys. The problem is the GOP politicians who cater to extremists.

That is hopeless.

The problem the US has is how to prevent, or at the very least lessen the frequency of mass shootings. Your answer is “well killing is illegal so let’s enforce the law”.

That is not preventative. If the mass shooter survives their shooting spree, prosecuting them doesn’t prevent the same thing happening again, and again, and again.

Looking at the US from the outside, the problem it has is simple. The right to own a gun is more highly valued than any interest in reducing the number of children who are shot. It’s that simple. I’ve no doubt that gun owners don’t want children to be shot in schools. But they prize their guns so much they are not prepared to take the necessary steps to de-arm the general population of the US.

None of this is difficult or complicated. It just takes a collective will that is entirely absent. And what should be concerning is this: the repetition of mass shootings is not shifting US public opinion in any meaningful way. That means the population is inured to these events. They have become a regrettable but acceptable price to pay for gun ownership.

Are you kidding about this?

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

OK - with kids being murdered? Of course not and your a dick for implying that. Didn't take you long to resort to that, so have a good day.

Per CNN - "He was engaged by an Uvalde ISD police officer who works here at the school. And then after that, he was engaged by two other officers from the Uvalde Police Department,"

Why couldn't 3 officers stop him? If they did their job - zero kids killed.

If nothing changed after sandy hook nothing was ever going to change...so what happened yesterday or just last week in Buffalo (old news now) means nothing.

The fact is that there are millions of people that are fine with the slaughter of school children just so long as the children don't have to hear about our country's racist history or have the opportunity to read a book that has a gay rabbit in it.

Instead of doing something, the right is content with making the children bear the responsibility for their own safety, "active shooting drills."

Their answer is to turn schools into prisons and in their sick and twisted fucking minds they think that Tommy seeing a gay man is more painful to Tommy's little psyche than literally having to train at school to try to save his own life...while they see the news on how that doesn't fucking work anymore than hiding under our desks to fend off a nuke from the USSR.

Just more feeble excuses to carry on killing every day and every week.
I'll remind you of it at the inevitable next mass shooting.

The African American community was the target and victim of the Buffalo shooting.

The Mexican-American community appears to be disproportionately affected in the Texas shooting.

Sandy Hook victims were largely white, affluent, middle and upper class. The fact that nothing changed after *that* shooting made it clear that nothing will ever be done at the federal level on this issue. The country has already seen and experienced the worst it can imagine and yet, nothing is done.

Don’t expect an elementary school full of dead brown children to move the needle today. We simply don’t care.

---

The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Unfortunately, it is looking like you are correct about all of this ...

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

The US population also consumes 90%+ of the world's hydrocodone, even though we are only 350M out of a world population of close to 8B. The point of this is the US somehow has to be the extreme for a lot of strange stuff. Gun ownership and dependence on opioids being two of them.

I don't know what to do about these issues. On social media, I see a lot of people getting mad because the Texas shooter, and the Buffalo shooter, are touted as having mental illness. Yes, its hate in their blood but they have to have some kind of mental illness to push them to the point of taking this kind of drastic action. No sane, reasonable person would do this.

This also leads me to think, what has changed in our country over the years. Yes we own a lot of guns now but people, at least where I grew up, have always owned a lot of guns. Hell, we use to have hunting rifles on a gun rack in our truck in the school parking lot. Friends would have pistols in their glove compartment. And these cars were sitting in the school parking lot with everyone knowing these guns were there. Most were in plain sight if you simply look through the back window of several trucks there. But, despite plenty of fights, being mad at teachers, or pissed off at relationships, no one ever thought to go grab one of these guns and shoot up a classroom. Something has changed about the mental processing of our society, and I don't know how to explain it, but it's definitely contributing to a lot of our current issues.

How many of the recent mass shootings were perpetrated by "current" criminals, and how many were perpetrated by "law abiding citizens" (until they were no longer law abiding)?

"Current" criminals don't go into schools or supermarkets and kill large numbers of people, and it isn't because they're afraid of all the gun-toting law abiding citizens that might be there. They don't because it's not in their wheel houses. Take away guns from *all* law abiding citizens and these mass shootings don't happen.

---

----------------------------------
"Go yell at an M&M"

They think they are the good guys. And the good guys kill bad guys with guns. At least that's what the gun nuts tell me.

The only policy thing directly related to schools shootings and guns and parents I can offer up is something I got lambasted for saying in the past: apply the penalty to the parents the parents would have gotten if they were the ones that went into the school and shot it up instead.

If you own the gun, and your kid goes out and shoots up people.........you're on the hook for life in prison or the death penalty.

If they want the age in their state to buy guns so easy to be 18, OK. Keep the parental implications age at 21. You're not off the hook as a parent for that crap until they're 21. You don't like that or think that's super unfair, change the legal purchasing age to be higher.

The pushback I've gotten on this in the past is folks saying that a 16 y/o, 18 y/o, 20 y/o is a grown adult the second they murder and are deemed separate from the parents for that decision. I disagree. Keep the parents involved and on the hook and I'd bet this "troubled youth" nonsense would be reduced.

For specifically school shootings..........what's the average age of the murderers? I'd be curious.

My husband owns a couple guns primarily for protection as we live in the middle of the woods, and it would take LE at least 30-40 minutes to help us, let alone find us if we experienced a home invasion. It may seem unlikely but there is quite a bit of drug crime in these small rural towns in the Northeast of New England. I don't love guns. I don't even like them. But I believe responsible adults should be allowed to own them, especially when you feel a bit vulnerable.

Where I live, I could go down to the local gun shop and bring home a gun for myself quite easily. A quick background check only takes a few minutes. It's easy peasy. My husband was in and out with a gun (sig sauer) in probably less than 20 minutes over a year ago. I would prefer if I needed training, education and possibly a license before I was allowed to own a gun. At the moment, I'd probably accidentally shoot my foot off if I purchased a gun (ok just kidding, but not really). I would be all for taking a class, learning to shoot, having a shooting test, much like getting a drivers license. I realize this won't prevent all shootings but if it prevented one death, to me that is worth it. So if this 18 year old had to jump through a few hoops to get a license and buy a gun, would this have deterred him? I don't know. Maybe, maybe not. I'm also for better and more comprehensive background checks, but that doesn't catch people with mental illness. But it may stop a few "bad people" which to me is also worth it.

Honestly I really don't see much happening to reduce mass shootings in our lifetime. We go through these discussions every time there is a mass shooting. Nothing changes. The NRA is too powerful. Half the Senate will never change. It's also a deeply imbedded cultural thing here in the US. Banning guns won't stop all shootings. It may stop some. I'm all for common sense gun control. Can we also work on the root cause? I wouldn't even know where to start with that. How does a person harbor such evil and hatred. Who is at fault for these gunmen?

---

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

Removing guns won't work but restrictions on bullets with tracking who's buying could make a dent. An assault rifle without ammo isn't much of a gun

I think most people want this. Just standard procedures that make sense to own a deadly weapon. People understand the need to own a gun, especially for safety in their own home. People generally want background checks, license to own, safety classes, insurance, and ways to track guns. But for whatever reasons the GOP doesnt want this.

If people were unwilling to go through the minor inconvenience of wearing a mask during covid, they are not willing to go through minor inconveniences for gun control.

In other words keep our head in the sand and accept nothing will change. Nothing about what types of assault weapons are sold, enhanced background checks, etc.

Thanks for your enlightening post.

End the gun lobby is step 1. Until this is done nothing can be done. Because the gun lobby greases politicians left and right, to preserve the status quo.

I agree 1000% (no typo)

The GOP doesn't want to support gun control because this will cause outrage among their voter base and they will also loose $$ and support from the very powerful NRA. Like I said it's a deeply embedded cultural aspect of our society here in the US. Many other westernized countries believe gun ownership to be a privilege and not a right. Is it a coincidence that these countries have less gun violence?

---

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I have a request for you to do something. I would like you to sit in a comfortable spot and daydream for 5 minutes about a time, in just one or two years from now, when we will have gun laws that reduce the number of school shootings. Without worrying about exactly how it will happen, play a fantasy in your head that it exists.

I used to daydream in high school a lot about the world and my plans. It’s an enjoyable thing to do. I’ve been encouraging my own kids to daydream about the world and their futures because I think it makes neural pathways that we might use later. I think it might be the first step to accomplishing things.

I’m optimistic. There are more good people who want common sense gun laws than assholes who think dead kids is a fair price for a gun-saturated society. We’re not going to buy what they’re selling. So, envision what we want. And we will get there. We’ve reduced unhealthy consumer products before, like cigarettes. Where there’s a will, there is a way. ☀️

Just a hypothetical thought. If the NRA was having a convention with all their top brass and there was a mass shooting at the event, including top management.

Would they still do nothing. Easy answer, they would still do nothing as they still want all the money coming in.

I like this post!

I actually imagine peace in Ukraine when I go to bed every night. I don't pray since I lean towards being an atheist. But I wish for peace. I could do the same for gun violence in the US.

I do believe there are many good people in the world. However, I also feel like the "bad guys" have been winning lately here in the US and abroad.

---

Death is easy....peaceful. Life is harder.

I admire your optimism. I'm 45, and I remember a talk in high school about Yucca Mountain and the future of clean nuclear power. That was so exciting. I still think about the props the DOE speaker had showing how France handled their nuclear waste. And to this day we still haven't chosen to solve that problem.

My 9 year-old asked me about the shooting on the way to school this morning. When I told him, his response -- "ok." Even he can see that nothing will be done. There are times when I regret going into a profession that is heavily regulated and not so easy to find employment out of the country.

Maybe this love of guns will go the way of drunk driving. Remember when a to-go beer was the norm? I was in grad school when Texas finally banned open containers in cars. Drunk driving is now culturally unacceptable. Yes, people still do it, but it's not cool and we as a society agree on that.

Stop being a fucking tool. I didn’t imply that and you completely dodged the question. Stop looking for things that aren’t in my post.

Again:

ARE YOU OK WITH IT BEING LEGAL FOR A KID TO BUY GUNS ON HIS 18TH BIRTHDAY? A KID WHO SEEMED TO BE SOMEWHAT DISTURBED BASED ON HIS SOCIAL MEDIA POSTS?

You talked about compliance with the law. This kid was allowed to buy guns on his 18th birthday and without any form of background check. ARE YOU OK WITH THESE LAWS? Simple enough question.

The sadness is, it comes down to seflishness. And I don't say that with a judegmental tone, but an objective one.

Gun owenership and rights is rooted in selfishness. I want a gun. I want to protect me. I want to protect mine. And then lawmakers go along because I want votes.

There is a degree of selfishness to all that we debate and fight for. But gun ownership, the ability to possess a tool to use immediate lethal force, is the height of selfishness. Justifiable? That is the crux of the debate. To your point, I fully appreciate wanting protection when in remote areas. I fully appreciate wanting one in the backcountry with large animals. Even shooting as a hobby. Many rational arguments can be made.

I am not suggesting some fantastical solution where guns just disapear. Nor am I arguing that folks should not be allowed to legally and respsonsibly own guns. I am just noting that I can't see how our current culture reverses this mindset. Even when something like yesterday happens, half the country immediately thinks more about how to protect themselves.

I'm a little older than you, and I don't remember that. I distinctly remember drunk-driving being uncool in high school.

Huh. I clearly remember my parents being offered "one for the road" when I was a kid.

And that's my point re drunk driving. It became an uncool thing, rather than just a thing. Attitudes changed.

No background check? Was it a private sale?

Republican politicians as a majority are the ones that will not entertain back ground checks, mental health exceptions, requiring someone to be over 21. Outlawing assault rifles for public use. All which would help curb mass shootings. so no he's not full of shit.
Looks like the only way to offer protection to school children is to encase them in body armor and helmets. At least that might stop some of the bullets.

Speaking of that, do you know the statistics on numbers of deaths by AR15 vs handgun?

Yeah not going down that slippery slope where we start arguing sources on a forum about triathlon. Meet me on Twitter if you want to do that. Instead. I assume you have Google. Search "use of force statistics" first and then "battle after action reports" second. There will be government sources and there will be private sources. You can draw your own conclusions based on your preference of available data.

I think this is a reasonable view of the situation. A person might change "selfishness" to "self reliance" to change the connotation, but generally, the rest of the post would stand.

The same might be said about personal property, money, etc, except those things generally can't be misused to harm another person (not physically anyway).

I fall into all of your categories for rational arguments. I have one AR. I don't especially like it. I personally prefer bolt action rifles as I put a premium on maximal precision. But, I carry a glock 20 for bear protection and I don't see how I can maintain that gun while also eliminating an AR style weapon.

OK, I could see that. I think it was cool for our parents, but our generation was the first where we were methodically taught from a young age that it was uncool, and it took hold pretty well.

Which maybe we need to be taught that gun fetishization is uncool from a young age?

Did anyone check his social media posts? Seems a good place to start checking if an 18 year old should be allowed to buy a gun. After these events people say, “why was he allowed to buy a gun? He was clearly a troubled kid.” Well, um, maybe we should mandate that kind of background check before we allow 18 year olds to buy guns.

Or even better, maybe 18 year olds shouldn’t be able to buy guns. If you aren’t deemed responsible enough to buy and consume alcohol, how does it make sense that you’re deemed responsible enough to buy a gun?

Apparently (just going by news reports) he had an IG account where he posted the photos of two new guns.

And background check? TX? Bless your heart.

Texas isn't exempt from federal firearms laws. FFL?

Have you purchased a firearm from a dealer recently?

Man I can't help it I'm a Libra but it is very possible that some people love guns for the right reasons (sporting) just like we like carbon wheel sets 10 grams lighter than the ones we already have, so I have trouble taking a zero sum stance on guns. That said, none of these pictures exemplify those people. These photos remind me of tobacco advertising from back in the day - pure romanticism.

Two words: Zero Tolerance

I just had a crazy idea. Don't give the gun industry and gun dealers carte blanche when it comes to selling guns. If a shooting occurs with one of their guns or a gun that was sold, allow individuals the ability to sue these businesses. If that occurred I guarantee they would be a bit more careful who they sell to.

It is almost like a company should be libel when they design a product to kill and it is used to kill.

Just replying to the thread.

I do not believe any individual should be able to go in and buy a gun on the same day. Go in, order the gun, wait a minimum of 7 days and then go back in. Have a national registry for the background checks. If these steps aren't taken then not only the shooter but the person and company who sold the gun are just as responsible for any actions taken with that gun.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Can you elaborate?

---

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
--

I remember my friends brother had a cooler of beer in the back of his chevette. I remember all day boat drinking. Not cool. but not unacceptable.