Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
csb wrote:
Remember when a to-go beer was the norm?


I'm a little older than you, and I don't remember that. I distinctly remember drunk-driving being uncool in high school.

Huh. I clearly remember my parents being offered "one for the road" when I was a kid.

And that's my point re drunk driving. It became an uncool thing, rather than just a thing. Attitudes changed.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
This kid was allowed to buy guns on his 18th birthday and without any form of background check.

No background check? Was it a private sale?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rick_pcfl wrote:
cholla wrote:
It would only change when the Republicans are no longer in power. There is blood on the hands (again) of those who vote Republican.


Yeah, you're full of shit. Most republicans oppose school shootings as much as everyone else.

Republican politicians as a majority are the ones that will not entertain back ground checks, mental health exceptions, requiring someone to be over 21. Outlawing assault rifles for public use. All which would help curb mass shootings. so no he's not full of shit.
Looks like the only way to offer protection to school children is to encase them in body armor and helmets. At least that might stop some of the bullets.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
MJuric wrote:
FishyJoe wrote:
99% of people aren't reckless drivers, but we make people register vehicles and get licensed.

Does it stop accidents or people from getting killed? No.

Does it prevent mayhem and many people from dying needlessly? Yes.


Lots of people drive without license, registration or insurance....despite the fact that it's illegal.

There are also some states that actually have no license or registration requirements and also have some of the lowest deaths per capita by firearm in the US.


What a specious argument. You’re better than that.

Speaking of that, do you know the statistics on numbers of deaths by AR15 vs handgun?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [307trout] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
307trout wrote:
Patrick_M wrote:
307trout wrote:
Patrick_M wrote:
307trout wrote:
CallMeMaybe wrote:
Did you hear that the shooter engaged with police at the school before he went inside to kill kids? Your good guy with a gun fantasy is a fucking fantasy. It isn’t a solution. https://twitter.com/...P0Pr9twJ1c_y3OjnOKxw

Did you hear that parents are getting DNA swabbed this afternoon to help identify the destroyed and unrecognizable bodies of their kids? https://twitter.com/...P0Pr9twJ1c_y3OjnOKxw

Your idea that avoiding gun violence is a matter of personal responsibility seems pretty crass.

Your views about government don’t appear grounded in reality— in terms of constitutionality, the benefits of gun laws, and the reasons we don’t have gun laws. Your nonsense is particularly aggravating to read within the first 12 hours after a school shooting. It has not been a pleasure.


Was the police officer at the school armed or not?



The question I’d be asking is that though a border patrol agent who is presumably well trained in the tactics required to engage an active shooter took this dude down, is it really a reasonable assumption that the avg person who’s only real experience is laying down 4-500 for a decent gun has the natural ability to do the same thing? Statistics say no. I just think “good guy with a gun” is a fantasy and thus not really safe for anyone.


What statistics?


I’d start with LE v suspects then move on to us military v almost everyone else, w/r/t light arms firefights. There’s plenty of examples of trained v not trained or less trained.


Please share links. Interested in reading more.

Yeah not going down that slippery slope where we start arguing sources on a forum about triathlon. Meet me on Twitter if you want to do that. Instead. I assume you have Google. Search "use of force statistics" first and then "battle after action reports" second. There will be government sources and there will be private sources. You can draw your own conclusions based on your preference of available data.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [WannaB] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
WannaB wrote:
The sadness is, it comes down to seflishness. And I don't say that with a judegmental tone, but an objective one.

Gun owenership and rights is rooted in selfishness. I want a gun. I want to protect me. I want to protect mine. And then lawmakers go along because I want votes.

There is a degree of selfishness to all that we debate and fight for. But gun ownership, the ability to possess a tool to use immediate lethal force, is the height of selfishness. Justifiable? That is the crux of the debate. To your point, I fully appreciate wanting protection when in remote areas. I fully appreciate wanting one in the backcountry with large animals. Even shooting as a hobby. Many rational arguments can be made.

I am not suggesting some fantastical solution where guns just disapear. Nor am I arguing that folks should not be allowed to legally and respsonsibly own guns. I am just noting that I can't see how our current culture reverses this mindset. Even when something like yesterday happens, half the country immediately thinks more about how to protect themselves.

I think this is a reasonable view of the situation. A person might change "selfishness" to "self reliance" to change the connotation, but generally, the rest of the post would stand.

The same might be said about personal property, money, etc, except those things generally can't be misused to harm another person (not physically anyway).

I fall into all of your categories for rational arguments. I have one AR. I don't especially like it. I personally prefer bolt action rifles as I put a premium on maximal precision. But, I carry a glock 20 for bear protection and I don't see how I can maintain that gun while also eliminating an AR style weapon.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [csb] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
csb wrote:
Huh. I clearly remember my parents being offered "one for the road" when I was a kid.

And that's my point re drunk driving. It became an uncool thing, rather than just a thing. Attitudes changed.

OK, I could see that. I think it was cool for our parents, but our generation was the first where we were methodically taught from a young age that it was uncool, and it took hold pretty well.

Which maybe we need to be taught that gun fetishization is uncool from a young age?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [307trout] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
307trout wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

This kid was allowed to buy guns on his 18th birthday and without any form of background check.


No background check? Was it a private sale?

Did anyone check his social media posts? Seems a good place to start checking if an 18 year old should be allowed to buy a gun. After these events people say, “why was he allowed to buy a gun? He was clearly a troubled kid.” Well, um, maybe we should mandate that kind of background check before we allow 18 year olds to buy guns.

Or even better, maybe 18 year olds shouldn’t be able to buy guns. If you aren’t deemed responsible enough to buy and consume alcohol, how does it make sense that you’re deemed responsible enough to buy a gun?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [Kay Serrar] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Kay Serrar wrote:
307trout wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

This kid was allowed to buy guns on his 18th birthday and without any form of background check.


No background check? Was it a private sale?


Did anyone check his social media posts? Seems a good place to start checking if an 18 year old should be allowed to buy a gun. After these events people say, “why was he allowed to buy a gun? He was clearly a troubled kid.” Well, um, maybe we should mandate that kind of background check before we allow 18 year olds to buy guns.

Or even better, maybe 18 year olds shouldn’t be able to buy guns. If you aren’t deemed responsible enough to buy and consume alcohol, how does it make sense that you’re deemed responsible enough to buy a gun?

Apparently (just going by news reports) he had an IG account where he posted the photos of two new guns.

And background check? TX? Bless your heart.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [ChrisM] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ChrisM wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:
307trout wrote:
Kay Serrar wrote:

This kid was allowed to buy guns on his 18th birthday and without any form of background check.


No background check? Was it a private sale?


Did anyone check his social media posts? Seems a good place to start checking if an 18 year old should be allowed to buy a gun. After these events people say, “why was he allowed to buy a gun? He was clearly a troubled kid.” Well, um, maybe we should mandate that kind of background check before we allow 18 year olds to buy guns.

Or even better, maybe 18 year olds shouldn’t be able to buy guns. If you aren’t deemed responsible enough to buy and consume alcohol, how does it make sense that you’re deemed responsible enough to buy a gun?

Apparently (just going by news reports) he had an IG account where he posted the photos of two new guns.

And background check? TX? Bless your heart.

Texas isn't exempt from federal firearms laws. FFL?

Have you purchased a firearm from a dealer recently?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [Thom] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thom wrote:
It probably isn't going to change until we stop voting for these people. We are getting what we ask for.






Man I can't help it I'm a Libra but it is very possible that some people love guns for the right reasons (sporting) just like we like carbon wheel sets 10 grams lighter than the ones we already have, so I have trouble taking a zero sum stance on guns. That said, none of these pictures exemplify those people. These photos remind me of tobacco advertising from back in the day - pure romanticism.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [EyeRunMD] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
EyeRunMD wrote:
The US population also consumes 90%+ of the world's hydrocodone, even though we are only 350M out of a world population of close to 8B. The point of this is the US somehow has to be the extreme for a lot of strange stuff. Gun ownership and dependence on opioids being two of them.

I don't know what to do about these issues. On social media, I see a lot of people getting mad because the Texas shooter, and the Buffalo shooter, are touted as having mental illness. Yes, its hate in their blood but they have to have some kind of mental illness to push them to the point of taking this kind of drastic action. No sane, reasonable person would do this.

This also leads me to think, what has changed in our country over the years. Yes we own a lot of guns now but people, at least where I grew up, have always owned a lot of guns. Hell, we use to have hunting rifles on a gun rack in our truck in the school parking lot. Friends would have pistols in their glove compartment. And these cars were sitting in the school parking lot with everyone knowing these guns were there. Most were in plain sight if you simply look through the back window of several trucks there. But, despite plenty of fights, being mad at teachers, or pissed off at relationships, no one ever thought to go grab one of these guns and shoot up a classroom. Something has changed about the mental processing of our society, and I don't know how to explain it, but it's definitely contributing to a lot of our current issues.

Two words: Zero Tolerance
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I just had a crazy idea. Don't give the gun industry and gun dealers carte blanche when it comes to selling guns. If a shooting occurs with one of their guns or a gun that was sold, allow individuals the ability to sue these businesses. If that occurred I guarantee they would be a bit more careful who they sell to.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
SWEDE63 wrote:
I just had a crazy idea. Don't give the gun industry and gun dealers carte blanche when it comes to selling guns. If a shooting occurs with one of their guns or a gun that was sold, allow individuals the ability to sue these businesses. If that occurred I guarantee they would be a bit more careful who they sell to.

It is almost like a company should be libel when they design a product to kill and it is used to kill.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [chaparral] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just replying to the thread.

I do not believe any individual should be able to go in and buy a gun on the same day. Go in, order the gun, wait a minimum of 7 days and then go back in. Have a national registry for the background checks. If these steps aren't taken then not only the shooter but the person and company who sold the gun are just as responsible for any actions taken with that gun.

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
velocomp wrote:
Two words: Zero Tolerance
Can you elaborate?

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [trail] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
trail wrote:
csb wrote:
Remember when a to-go beer was the norm?


I'm a little older than you, and I don't remember that. I distinctly remember drunk-driving being uncool in high school.

I remember my friends brother had a cooler of beer in the back of his chevette. I remember all day boat drinking. Not cool. but not unacceptable.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [TheRef65] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
you know I’ve read through the pages of this forum and as expected it just goes political finger pointing when in reality you should be looking straight in the mirror.

The real issue here is personal responsibility. Everyone keeps blaming the tool but never wants to admit they contribute to the overall problem of our country.

You can buy a meal with a cookie for $4 at Burger King but can’t take that same $4 and buy real chicken right now. 3/4s of America is now considered overweight and obese.

You can go to a doctor and get prescribed Opioids for a BS pain but your insurance doesn’t cover any sort of mental health care to just talk to someone… a $100+/hr benefit reserved for people with money.

The current attitude is that you have to “give your kids a better life than you had” but the reality is you should be raising your kids to have respect and be focused on making the positive contributors to society. In other words, not being assholes to other kids at school.

We lose people to drunk driving in this country EVERY SINGLE DAY but yet not once does any one go after the liquor companies or bars that over serve. We throw that person in jail and just move on.

We have DOCUMENTED PROOF that facebook knows that their FB/Instagram platforms have negative effects on young girls that have even lead to suicides…. but no one does a damn thing about it.

and Lastly… Go down the list of school shooters of recent memory.. and in almost every case a government entity knew ahead of time this person was a risk. The government DOES have the ability to flag people with firearms purchases and prevent them… but the system hasn’t been followed. There’s over 2000 gun laws on the books already. Just for your reference, The Roof kid - FBI knew, Boston Bombers - hell Russia told us and the FBI knew, Parkland - the FBI knew, Buffalo - local authorities knew and probably had to tell the FBI as well…..

If you sit there and say “O my kid is in high school, they don’t like me right now” it means YOU are neglecting your responsibility to teach your kid that if THEY SEE SOMETHING, SAY SOMETHING!!!!

It’s a community and people effort not a government effort to fix whats going in The United States of America…

So stop being a Fn hypocrite with your political garbage spewing BS lines of “if you voted for this party the bloods on your hands” because last I checked the Blue politicians net wealth has gone up just as much as the Red politicians has.

Just like you are tired of “prayers”, I’m tired of people always asking for a rescuer to come save them and not being the change they want to see in the world. Particularly on industries they know ZERO about.

Look in the mirror. What are you doing to fix it?
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
velocomp wrote:
Two words: Zero Tolerance

Can you elaborate?

My opinion: I think zero tolerance is a bunch of crap. I think that each action or incident should be investigated independently and proper punishment allotted. I think zero tolerance leads to more explosive incidents rather due to fear of major repercussions for even a minor transgression.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [SWEDE63] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
What will it take? Ask better questions.

https://twitter.com/...RaTZPK2R97xa8vrVHG6w

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [leonmac] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
leonmac wrote:
Look in the mirror. What are you doing to fix it?

Voting for people who say they want to enact reasonable reforms on gun sale and ownership.
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rick_pcfl wrote:
cholla wrote:
It would only change when the Republicans are no longer in power. There is blood on the hands (again) of those who vote Republican.

Yeah, you're full of shit. Most republicans oppose school shootings as much as everyone else.

I don’t think you’re right about that. Cholla has the right if it.

Ask better questions.

https://twitter.com/...RaTZPK2R97xa8vrVHG6w

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [rick_pcfl] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
rick_pcfl wrote:
What do you propose that will have an absolute direct stop of mass shootings?

First, this bothers me as much as it does everyone else. It sickens me that people are capable of doing this. I would support any measure that would guarantee the end of any kind of shooting. I see people propose measures that punish law abiding citizens, but nothing that would put a stop to this.

100% gun confiscation would do it, but accomplishing that is impossible. We've outlawed alcohol, drugs and drunk driving, but it doesn't stop it. Sadly, guns are no different.

We can do it today with no politics or cultural revolution… harden schools and “defend” instead of doing “drills” and security theater.

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [velocomp] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Zero tolerance for what, exactly?

I don't follow.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook

--
Quote Reply
Re: Mass Shootings - What will it take to change the law? [FishyJoe] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FishyJoe wrote:
It's no coincidence that the Russian intelligence targeted the NRA.

This is the correct take. Ask better questions.

https://twitter.com/...RaTZPK2R97xa8vrVHG6w

E

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply

Prev Next