We could easily do a 99% gun confiscation, and we could do it all voluntarily.

It will reduce the problem by 99%.

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Why do you want to go against the liquor companies and bars, but not the gun manufacturers and lobbyists? Seems you’re arguing against yourself there.

HR8 passed the House with bipartisan support in March 2021 (227 to 203) and it would expand background checks and close the gun show and online sales loopholes. The senate has not voted on the bill (60 votes are needed to end debate and proceed with a vote). Republican Senators are the problem. They are cowed by their love of power and money.

I hope you're replying to the thread and not me directly because if you are, I don't know what the hell you're talking about with me. I have not gone after a political party but I have gone after an industry. If every other industry in the world is responsible for their product, why not the gun industry?

For your information, there are laws on the books where the individual who serves someone who is involved in drunk driving can be prosecuted.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/dram_shop_rule

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TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

leonmac wrote:

but can’t take that same $4 and buy real chicken right now.

Sure I can. Still far cheaper at a dollar/ounce to buy raw. Or if you mean buying a live chicken, also cheaper than $4 for a whole real chicken (chick).



~42% according to the CDC.

I'm being pedantic. But if you're going to go on sanctimonious rant, you open yourself for fact-checking. :)

How about modifying your laws when you see a pattern?

How many of these mass shootings are prefaced by an 18 year old walking into a gun store and legally buying two assault rifles, high capacity magazines and ammunition after only a laughable background check?

So you’ve pivoted away from “let the law do its job after the event and that will sort this out” to “this mass shooting wasn’t the fault of the gunman who did the shooting”.

That is some fucked up thinking.

The fucking dumbest thing here is that it does not take 60 votes to pass, only to end debate. So GOP senators could vote to end debate and then not vote for the bill. That is how it used to work. Lots of bills passed by a simple majority after debate had ended.

Instead we have the dumbest possible system where votes to end debate are treated just the same as the vote for the bill itself, but then why have both votes? If having to get 60 votes is a good thing, then why don’t we have that for threshold for the bill itself?

Not to mention you need 60 votes to end debate on creating some new program, but you only need 51 votes to stop funding that program. So just asymmetrical.

Just such a dumb system.

This. And I’m telling everyone else to do the same, including leonmac.

Leonmac, vote for people who say they want to enact reasonable reforms on gun sale and ownership. You hear?

My memory is hazy, but didn’t Obama essentially put all his chips on getting Obamacare passed? Immigration and/or gun reform at that time simultaneously with the ACA would have been impossible.


I guess you have a point. They had the super majority for 9 months. Voting on a bill takes damn near an hour. Clearly they could have passed it if they had the super majority for 9 months and 2 hours.

Or they could simply pass it today. They have a majority in the House, Senate, and the White House.

20 Police officers have been killed in the line of duty this year by guns.

There have been 27 school shootings so far this year. In those, 27 people were killed of which 24 were children.

That's fucked up.

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Suffer Well.

You don't really believe that do you?

Agree.

The whole good-guy-with-a-gun fantasy is so stupid because it’s promising gun battles to stop gun killings? I’m sorry— but I don’t want gun battles all across America. No thank you.

The good-guy-with-a-gun fantasy is just a pathetic longing to be a hero. It is so far from reality— it is truly pathetic.

In case you weren't aware, Steve Kerr's father was assassinated when SK was 19 years old.

https://www.marca.com/...2601da04e8b45ec.html

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

Yup. People have always had guns. Then America became more urbanized. The number of hunters dropped. The gun industry needed to grow their customer base and did so by targeting new users outside the usual, responsible, base.

The result is a disaffected 18 year old with no training, limited background check, and no community guidance can go buy an armory.

The vast majority of American gun owners are good, reasonable, responsible people. They need to stand up to their politicians get them to do the right thing.

To my (unAmerican ) eyes...this looks absolutely freakish ! Brainwash'em young eh

This is a laughable attempt at sidetracking the conversation for someone that claims to want a serious discussion. Laughable because it wouldn’t have mattered in the least and you know it.

No, it's not. If the guns were purchased from a dealer, a background check is 100% required.

while this is true, it is not as true as we would like to believe.

approximately 1 in 100 gun owners use their gun(s) to perpetrate a crime. This means that we are selling guns to people will ill-intent on a regular basis. IF it was the 1 in 100,000 that trout suggested earlier then it would be correct to feel that background checks are useless.

I think it will take another two generations for this issue to resolve, or atleast greatly diminish. We didn't have these events when I was a kid. Guns were very prevalent where I grew up - we could go out with .22s and shoot up cans and such anytime. Most of us also went through gun safety courses (I grew up on a military base until I hit high school, when we moved into the town adjacent to the base). Of course, we didn't run around with guns while on the base. My dad was an avid hunter as were all of his buddies. One of my sisters was a competitive sharpshooter. Guns were readily accessible.

These kids today who are students at these schools where these shootings have and will occur, and in schools where active shooter safety drills are the norm, will grow up and be leaders in the future. Their view will be vastly different than the view we see today and I believe they will not have any fear or resistance to address these issues head-on. The current HS and college generation are still exposed to gangsta rap riddled with gun images/glorification and parents who are 2A stalwarts, but that will change with the generation after (IMHO).

As for this moment in time, more security in schools is the easiest/most immediate answer since there's no reasonable path to legislation, or atleast legislation that will be effective. While new gun owners increase, I suspect more of the newer gun owners are very supportive of stricter gun laws (like my mother who now owns a handgun at the age of 86 for security).

Unfortunately, for now, we will just continue to vent anger and frustration across the political divide and post emotional messages on social media and places like ST. Call each other names. Not take a scientific look at the data available in order to enact actions that will effectively minimize these horrible events. We will direct people to vote tribally, etc. You know, the easy, lazy way to address serious issues while not changing anything. Pretending that if only one political party had control (as in CA) it would all magically change.

I'd be for a constitutional amendment, which is what I believe will be ultimately required. Again, I may be dead by the time this happens, but I believe it will. Getting illegal guns out of circulation will also take a very, very long time.

I have two kids who are now 20 and 23 yrs old. They have not been exposed to guns but have friends (one has a boyfriend who is in the Marine Corps) who own and use guns regularly. Girl friends in their early 20s who own handguns and have been through gun safety training. I'm not opposed to my girls taking gun safety courses and shooting at a gun range but we are not comfortable having guns in our home. Of their friends / boyfriends with whom I've broached this topic, all are strongly supportive of very strict gun laws, including mandatory training, certification, etc. (For the record, this would be approx 15 kids and an even split between Dems/Pubs/Independents for what that's worth). They don't seem to view the NRA as the enemy as the NRA programs were involved in their safety training (I don't know how this works, exactly) and there does not seem to be any connection with mass killing and actual members of the NRA. IF the NRA survives the next generation or two, it's likely to be run by far more moderate leaders than we see today - again, IMHO. (I highly doubt the NRA survives.) I would strongly support a government department responsible for gun registration, training, certification, regulatory enforcement, etc. Like we use the FAA for pilot license management/oversight. Maybe expand the ATF?

I also don't believe comparisons between the US and other countries is useful on this particular topic. The country is so large, has been ingrained with guns from the founding, has the 2A, and is very diverse. And the dynamic of specific school shootings is generally a new phenomenon. Like immigration, not one single action is going to make a difference, it will require a series of actions taken simultaneously to make a real change - harder to purchase guns and ammo, red flag laws, liability, etc etc.

I remain skeptical in the short term but very optimistic in the longer term.

How exactly does that background check evaluate the shooter's mental health?

See post #202 and then come back and tell us why the Dems can’t pass HR8 today. Try to be honest for once.

Hey pedantic one, he said obese and overweight. Somewhere north of 30% of the country is overweight.