Howdy,

The P1 pedals come factory calibrated, but there is the need to periodically "zero" the offset. But there shouldn't be anything fouling up the manual zeroing over ANT+. :/

If you're unclipped and have made sure nothing is contacting either pedal but still can't complete the manual zero over ANT+, mind shooting us an email at support@trainerroad? We'll be happy to look into this. :)

One thing to mention is that zeroing the offset on the P1s will store on the pedals themselves. So when you do it over BT, the value will hold true for ANT+ as well. So you could just do the zeroing over BT, then jump over to ANT+ so you get the combined L/R power value. This is less than ideal, so if you're still unable to complete the manual zero over ANT+ send that email on over and we'll investigate.

Thanks!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Hi Nick,

Wondering if you had any thoughts on the above.Thanks in advance.

Hey Nick,

This could be a dumb question, but I'm in the Triathlon Specialty phase right now and had a question about the weekly Run V02 Max Workouts (3 minute intervals). In the workout descpription it will say do (3,4,5,6)x 3min of RPE 9 speed surges followed by 3 minutes of recovery. It doesn't specify if this is light jog/ stopping/ walking etc however at the end it counts those minutes towards the "total minutes run"

Is the intention here to walk/ fully recover so that you can go equally hard on all of the intervals? Or does it mean light jog etc, making it more of a fartlek type workout? I've found that If I just use a light jog in between intervals the pace that I can hold for all 6 goes down drastically in comparison to if I were to stop/ walk/ take a full recovery. Not necissarily a bad thing I know, I'm just trying to get the full value out of the workouts and want to make sure I am doing them correctly.

I am about to start using Trainerroad's new sync to Garmin feature. But, I wanted to confirm L/R power data from my PowerTap P1 pedals... I like to look at my L/R power balance, because that is one of my early indicators of fatigue and over-training. I currently capture my Trainerroad rides simultaneously on my Garmin Edge so that I get all of the power balance data in Garmin. My understanding is that TR only gets total power data over Ant+. If I switch to a BT dongle for Trainerroad, will I get power data from the individual pedals that will than over up to Garmin Connect?

exxxvii,

TrainerRoad doesn't currently capture / record L/R power balance.

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Matthew
Twitter: @AlphaDogCycling
Instagram: @AlphaDogCycling

Thanks a ton, and major bummer. I was looking forward to eliminating one of the devices from my training environment and simplifying things a bit. And, I got excited about the potential when I saw TR's latest integration with Garmin pedals.

Yeah, I was hoping the recent iOS update would bring L/R support, but unfortunately it didn’t. Really would love to see that being implemented in the iOS app!

See the comments on this DC Rainmaker post where TrainerRoad says for the moment, they are only capturing pedal dynamics from Garmin Vector 3 pedals

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Matthew
Twitter: @AlphaDogCycling
Instagram: @AlphaDogCycling

Yeah, I saw that, but I always thought of Garmin's definition of "Cycling Dynamics" as proprietary metrics different from L/R power. Garmin calls out seated/standing, Power Phase, and Platform Center Offset. Power L/R had long pre-dated Garmin's introduction of Cycling Dynamics.

This is actually also a major bummer for me. It looks like that not only it does not capture L/R balance but it actually reads the power from the left pedal only and doubles it (this is info from TR support).

So, when you do a power match, the numbers are synced between my Garmin edge and TrainerRoad but that's only because trainerroad adjusts the trainer resistance till the target matches the double power from the left leg! If this is really true it's super annoying.

I actually noticed this when I was doing an FTP test, during the warmup, the power numbers were the same between my garmin and the trainerroad, but as soon as it switches to the slope mode (during the actual test time) I see a 10 watt difference.

The decrease in volume shouldn't come as a detriment to your progression as you near towards the season's end. Though, you can totally continue to squeeze some extra aerobic work in where you can — indoors or outside. This ultimately comes down to an idea we often stress with high-intensity interval training: not all training stress is created equal. So the 5 or so hours we'll have you on the bike inside, and the training stress that comes from it, will be different from the training stress that you get on those longer rides. You're able to pack a whole lot of training benefit on little time when it comes to the indoor interval rides. Similarly, you've had to hit those longer outdoor rides to get similar levels of stress. Which is more beneficial to your training — more intensity on less time or less intensity on more time — it really comes down to what your goals are and what energy systems you're trying to prompt adaptation within. They could also have very similar benefits depending on the nature of the rides.

If you're worried that the stress prescribed by the plans isn't enough to keep your positive progression, feel free to squeeze some of those longer rides in. But also keep in mind the logic behind a decrease in stress as you move into the Specialty phase of training. The following post will explain the rationale behind that; check it out when you get a chance: Why Does TSS Drop From the Build to Specialty Phase?

Another helpful resource that will be helpful is this blog post as well: Can You Have a Lower Weekly TSS and Still Get Faster?

Hope this helps Cloy! Have an awesome race in 8 weeks—we'll be rooting for ya.

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Thanks for the killer feedback! Really happy to hear you're enjoying the app. Please don't hesitate to get in touch should you ever run into any question or concerns. You can reach us at support@trainerroad.com—we're happy to help. :)

Cheers, and Happy Training!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Oh, this is kind of horrible. TR, please fix this. I have a left side power bias, and it gets worse as I get tired or fatigued. This totally dumbs down my workouts and snowballs my fatigue.

Oops, must've missed this. Sorry!

There could be a few things that could lead to this, so I'm just going to start from the top. :)

What's the nature of your outdoor rides where you see a higher heart rate? Group rides, competition, just riding solo? How hot is it on those outdoor rides? Stack those rides up against the nature of the indoor rides, are they the same nature workouts that you're seeing this disparity in HR? There can also be a pretty substantial motivation change when it comes to pushing yourself in a group or competitive setting that could lend to a high HR out on the ride, for sure.

Another thing to think about is how well dialed you have your FTP testing. Do you feel like you're really giving it all you got in the assessments? How's the pacing?

Without having too much info, I think you may be experiencing a combination of things. You FTP might be slightly under-representative of what your true capabilities are, and thus your workouts are scaled slightly below where they should be. The result: you're not causing a substantial amount of strain on your system such that your heart rate is getting as high as it would outside. Then, you might be a little more motivated to push yourself outside, especially if those rides are in group settings or competition.

Having said all this, we're also pretty skeptical of putting too much stock in using heart rate as a key indicator of performance. There tends to be a lot of variability with HR, and as such tend to pay more attention to tracking power. The following article is a good read if you'd like to learn more on why we take that position: Training With Power

Let me know what you think when you get a sec. Thanks!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

No worries Nick, your nuggets of wisdom are very much appreciated!

Now that you've had me think about it, my outdoor rides are usually junk miles - i.e zone 3 stuff on the flats and zone 4 + on the hills. I live in a hilly area so it's unavoidable unfortunately. I live in the UK, so even in summer I'm wearing a long sleeve jersey and as such it's generally hotter indoors. I do use a fan on hot days however I still sweat a lot more. I do group rides now and again, I usually ride by myself however. They tend to be the typical average pace until we get to the hills type ride.

Good point about stressing myself. When I do brick session after an indoor ride I always feel fresher than out on the road. I'm wondering if my indoor HR is my 'true' HR, whereas outdoors it's elevated because of the temp/focussing on traffic/staying upright etc. I've only done 2 FTP sessions before, so there's definitely room to learn how to test properly in there.

Howdy,

I just discussed this with our Head Coach, Chad, and I'll just relay the info he passed along to me. :)

"Recovery is a bit subjective on these, so I was hesitant to specify. Much like recovery valleys on the bike, you can ride at 50%, 40%, backpedal if necessary, whatever it takes to be ready to go again and hit your target (in this case pace/RPE). And keep moving, no standing, hands on knees, and recovering passively.

VO2max intervals are amongst those intervals where sustaining that really high intensity is key, so insufficient recovery can result in missing some of the point. We’re not interested in running an athlete into near failure; rather, we want as much time as possible at this pretty narrow range of speed/pace/stress, at this high percentage of max oxygen uptake."

Hope this clears that up for you. Let us know if you have any other questions—thanks!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Unfortunately this is a current limitation with pedal based power meters other than the Vectors in TrainerRoad at the moment. :/

But just to clarify, the P1s will add the power from left to the right when connected over ANT+, but will indeed double the power from the left pedal when connected over Bluetooth. This is something we'll be changing in the future, but I don't have an ETA on when exactly that will be.

We understand the issue it can present when using features like PowerMatch, and suggest using ANT+ in the meantime if that's an option.

Sorry for any inconvenience this causes you in the meantime of us supporting full L/R power measurement over Bluetooth.

Thanks!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

We have plans to support capturing full L/R power measurement over Bluetooth down the road, but for the time-being you'll need to connect over ANT+ to get power from both legs. Like others have mentioned, you'll get doubled left pedal power over Bluetooth.

We'll make sure to let everyone know when we can get full L/R over Bluetooth. Thanks for your patience!

Cheers

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

So, wait, Garmin's Vectors are not affected then? I mean they are ANT+ anyway, so from what you are saying they shouldn't be. I wonder why did I see about 10 watt difference between my Edge and the TR app then when I am in the slope mode.

Thanks a ton for the clarification. I am currently using Ant+ with TrainerRoad, so I am good to go. I look forward to the future when I can get true total power and L/R balance. Then, I can quit capturing my rides with my Edge 520 and just use the Garmin Sync feature.

Just to make sure we're on the same page...the doubling of left leg power over BT and L/R added power over ANT+ applies to all pedal based power meters except the Vectors in the workouts specific to Cycling Dynamics. That's where you'll see L/R dynamics. (Cycling Dynamics will only work over ANT+ as well — the new Vectors are dual-band). Since your Vectors only connect over ANT+, your power numbers you're seeing are the left and right leg values added together.

The 10 watt difference during the testing interval is possibly due to some power smoothing settings. Make sure the power smoothing settings match between your head unit and within TrainerRoad (disable both to make sure they always match—i'll explain why below). You'll find those in "Settings". This actually would make sense because you're locked into your power target throughout the rest of the workout, then when you're let loose to give your all out effort in slope mode, your power becomes a bit more variable. So if smoothing settings are applied to the head unit, the values between the two may be slightly different during slope mode or during more varied efforts. It would be less noticeable and the values may match if the effort was more consistent and if you're locked into your power target.

I came to this conclusion after physically just testing the Vectors on a smart trainer with a Garmin head unit paired simultaneously. The power data we display on TR is raw directly from the pedals, and the data we send to the Garmin head unit is raw as well. But those values will change on the head-unit if smoothing settings are applied. But on TrainerRoad, even with smoothing applied, you'll see the raw numbers displayed during the workout. We noticed that since we were locked into erg mode, despite some power smoothing being applied to the values the head-unit was reading, they matched up well since the intervals weren't really variable. Then when slope mode engaged the data wasn't matching up exactly like it was when in erg mode.

Let me know if that makes sense. Thanks!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Very welcome! Us too. :) Loop us in if you run into any other questions or concerns down the road.

Cheers

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

Looking for some feedback on a Trainerroad issue I am experiencing...

I used the desktop app for about 2 years when first released, switched over to the mobile app for about two years, but now hoping to switch back to the desktop app. I've been using (attempting to use) the desktop app for the last two weeks and it is basically unusable. The workout continuously auto pauses. It seems to be correlated with opening/closing of other programs or things like selecting a YouTube video. It appears that it also drops signal to the Wahoo Kickr about this same time.

I'm running a Wahoo Kickr and Pioneer DS powermeter. I've tried with both paired, just the Kickr paired, power sync on and off, with some more stable than other, but all experiencing the above issue. I do not have pause with cadence turned on. I'm using a Garmin ANT+ stick on a USB extension cord ~2ft from powermeter, ~4ft from Kickr.

Has anyone else experienced this? Any ideas on curing the problem?

I had some strange issues myself at one time. I use my ipad to calibrate the Tacx trainer and I did not realize that I had to close down the Tacx application other wise it was playing havoc with the trainer and in turn Trainer Road. Perhaps you have an application open somewhere that is wanting to get in on controlling something in the equation.

Just a theory of 1.

is with a Mac? Try disabling Wi-Fi while running TR (just a very very long shot, but this is what I have to do in case I don't want connection drops).