Because she did actual specific biketraining for the demands of that race, instead of telling everybody how awesome here running is so her biking doesn't matter....

And who knows, maybe she did even better with a higer cadence. Oh well.

I guess Dave’s version of events is also wrong. Doesn’t sound like multiple posts were deleted. Also the ones quoted by Frank are not deleted. Much waving of arms and screaming for nothing. No major conspiracy here, just a quick edit.

But at least we know that Dave has two goals here. Get a high post count, on a thread all about him. And, select a crank length that he thinks will irritate people. That will allow him to continue his claims of being attacked, and of being bold and courageous to go against conventional wisdom. He is after all the only one willing to test anything and try new things. It will also allow him to keep making false claims of everyone shorter than him riding long cranks.

Some always deflecting and ignore the facts.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

WWFD

What facts? You shared a single data point and tried to draw conclusions from that.

So much hypocrisy in your posts. You demand data from everyone and then resort to an argument of ‘Chrissy did it, so must be ok’. Or the other ‘data’ you’ve shared of your exhaustive research on bike fitters and crank length of all racers worldwide. Such a complete joke.

You are indeed. I never stated a higher (or lower for that matter) cadence was better, I stated that both cadence-styles have their cost and tried to explain to you what could cause the lower heartrate. Yet, you choose to attack instead of focussing on trying to keep a civil discussion going and learn something.

And yes, ofcourse I have an opinion, based on my own experience, of what suits me. And when a university-trained human movement scientist explains to me why this cadence-style has its merits, I tend to follow that advice.

OK.

What happened is that you quote one of your posts in which Frank replies to one of Greg's posts, and then you say "Why do you delete your posts Greg?" without any indication that the post you're missing is not the one Frank is replying to. I then point out that the post Frank is replying to is still there. You then still don't tell us that that wasn't the post you're talking about, you just say "no, no, no, he really deleted it". I then ask you WTF. If you consider that being attacked I have no idea how you get through your day without feeling violated every time you communicate with another human being.

I feel we can summarize this whole train wreck of a thread thusly:

How the fuck are we supposed to know what you're talking about when you don't properly explain what you're talking about?

And don't give me the old "but I am explaining and you just don't want to understand". Because you're old enough to know that if everybody except you agrees on a statement ("Dave has a poor written communication style") it's most likely that everybody else is right and that you are the outlier.

Fuck, I feel like I'm taking to my teenage son.

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Wibert wrote: "I never stated a higher (or lower for that matter) cadence was better, I stated that both cadence-styles have their cost and tried to explain to you what could cause the lower heartrate. Yet, you choose to attack instead of focussing on trying to keep a civil discussion going and learn something.

And yes, ofcourse I have an opinion, based on my own experience, of what suits me. And when a university-trained human movement scientist explains to me why this cadence-style has its merits, I tend to follow that advice.”

That was one of the more non-sensical explanations to explain HR I have seen but I let it go as you stated you were not a native speaker and perhaps you didn’t understand or transmit your understanding well. Anyhow, increasing muscle force actually has essentially nothing to do with HR. While there is some increased blood return to the muscles “pumping” blood back to the heart this occurs at all cadences so doesn’t affect HR. There are lots of things that can affect HR but in any given individual the main one, at least when exercising, is oxygen consumption followed by hydration status. The other advantage of lower cadence (just as a lower HR) is the muscle has a higher percentage of time in which blood flow can occur for the exchange of oxygen and nutrients. The problem comes at some point when further lowering cadence affects muscle efficiency and overcomes the ability of the muscle to increase force. Efficiency doesn’t continue to increase down to a cadence of 5 unless, perhaps, the power is 10 watts or so. The goal of this exercise is to find what is best for this individual. If you haven’t done something similar for you then you are guessing as to what is best for you.

Frank Day

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

As expected, you try to divert the blame. I said a post was deleted, and it was weird it was not there but blank. But you make assumptions and just attack. Guess is was too much for you just to say, I made a mistake. Oh well, I make plenty, and when I do, I just say I messed up, with no finger pointing.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I rest my case.

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Doing a new focus with my testing. Doing my 5 mile TT course in Aero and seeing what the numbers do. I continue to have been surprised the 150 cranks have allowed me to put out more power with my target 70-75rpm than 175. So I now am changing the crank length to see what happens with the numbers. Who knows, might even try to get to 135, even though my seat would be low, just to see what happens.

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Whilst i am sure you replied in good faith. I think there is an enormous difference between a teenage boy and an old man with something from the DSM.

A teenager, in theory, can learn something. Some mad old bastard who has gone through life receiving positive reinforcement for aberrant behaviour can not.

He has gone through life with everyone nodding along, tolerating him and the faux outrage of not being understood, and this is what you get. Some nutty old bastard with his "couple of beers short of a six pack" mate convincing themselves that 700 posts is a validation of both their work and existence.

He is like the bloke who walks in to the dr's and says "doctor, doctor, my third wife wants to divorce me, my 6 kids from previous marriages hate me and I have just lost my 4th job in 2 years. What is the matter with these people?"

Does anyone really care anymore?? Why don't you just conduct the "testing" and report back on your conclusions and how you got there. As much fun as it is following this train wreck it's not in any way productive for your ground breaking research.

Just randomly replying to the last post because I do not want to alert either of the 2 nutcases here.

But post 710 seems to be exactly why this FD guy should be banned from any forum. Why the other one reposting all this nonsense (I'm also not a native English speaker but I know how to write nonsensical correctly if I'd want to) is not banned yet is beyond me.

Oh well. One might as well have fun. Data data data. My data is I learned how to ride a bike as a Belgian and guess what, we kinda all figure out while riding that a higher cadence makes you breathe faster and have a higher heart rate, but still might be better than ploughing on a 53x11. If you don't believe it, just try riding the Mortirolo with a 39x23 :) Might be a bit worse than a fake hill on a fake bike with fake cranks.

"If you run into an asshole in the morning, you ran into an asshole. If you run into assholes all day, you're the asshole."
--Raylan Givens, from "Justified"

Richard Blaine wrote: "OK.

What happened is that you quote one of your posts in which Frank replies to one of Greg's posts, and then you say "Why do you delete your posts Greg?" without any indication that the post you're missing is not the one Frank is replying to. I then point out that the post Frank is replying to is still there. You then still don't tell us that that wasn't the post you're talking about, you just say "no, no, no, he really deleted it". I then ask you WTF. If you consider that being attacked I have no idea how you get through your day without feeling violated every time you communicate with another human being.

I feel we can summarize this whole train wreck of a thread thusly:

How the fuck are we supposed to know what you're talking about when you don't properly explain what you're talking about?

And don't give me the old "but I am explaining and you just don't want to understand". Because you're old enough to know that if everybody except you agrees on a statement ("Dave has a poor written communication style") it's most likely that everybody else is right and that you are the outlier.

Fuck, I feel like I'm taking to my teenage son.”

I am the first to agree that Dave is not the best communicator. I have had trouble understanding some things in our personal back and forth messages. I think the problem is he tends to leave stuff out that the rest of us need to fully understand what he is trying to say. Or, he forgets he has said one thing and doesn’t tell anyone when his understanding has changed. I assume this is because he thinks that something is obvious to him so it must be obvious to you. Sometimes (like this thread) it is because he is informing you what he is doing when he doesn’t fully understand what is being done so he is unable to clearly answer questions. He isn’t the only person in the world with this problem. At least Dave isn’t intimidated by your criticisms and put downs, must be frustrating.

That having been said, the other problem is you guys jump on him as if he knows nothing on pretty much every comment he makes, trying to make him irrelevant to any conversation or, even, get him booted from the site because you are tired of him. Such attempts only make you guys look petty. Yet, you keep coming back and back and back. I guess it would be easy to ignore him except for one thing. His race results are better than almost everyone here. He must be doing something right yet to listen to you people he isn’t doing anything right.

Frank Day

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Alrighty then. Down the rabbit hole we go again.

I *always* attempt to make the first post in any exchange "polite". I may be sarcastic, but in that case I will make sure to indicate that it is, in fact, intended as sarcasm.

In this case there wasn't even any sarcasm. I thought I was doing Dave a favour by pointing out the post he thought was deleted. No intention to "jump down his throat". No, just, "Dude, there's the post. You probably got confused by your unconventional quoting style". It's Dave who then comes back with either an ad hominem or playing the victim, or both. And that's when it's on.

And I couldn't give less fucks about his race results than I do. He lives in California, I live in Ontario. I race in my bubble, he races in his.

---

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

If you're sitting in the group you can get by spinning slower. That's probably the times that skews a roadies cadence lower. The group is cooperating and not responding to attacks.

Now, when the aggression gets going you need the rpm's to be able to respond better without having to wait to turn a harder gear up to speed. It's a lot different time lag getting from 70 to 110 versus 100 to 120 rpm to attack or respond to an attack.

If I'm out alone for a few hours at just a little tempo pace I may only avg 85 rpm or so. I'll up the rpm accordingly with the aggression to riding.

If I'm simulating wanting to drop someone on a short hill, I'll run the rpm's up to 100-105 at the base of the hill to practice forming a gap and then let the watts roll on up and over without changing cadence or speed.

I mean, that's why I ride a higher rpm. If the pace is aggressive, yeah, probably 100 rpm or so. When I'm doing over/under intervals or an ftp test I'm probably at 90-100rpm. 100 rpm when energetic and 90 as I wear down some.

All I took from that reply was, and maybe I misunderstood it, FD was saying (paraphrasing)

"Dave's a fucking idiot, don't blame yourself for not understanding what he said cos I am meant to be working with him and i don't understand either"

Anyway, Maybe I misunderstood bit if I didn't thats the first thing either of those two clowns has said I do agree with.

That’s what I read as well. Glad we finally agree with Frank!

X 3 - perhaps the first time I've ever agreed with Frank.

---

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

Great, you are now testing multiple different things at once. Bike seat, bike fit, crank length, aero...great stuff.

Thank you

---

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

He thinks he is Fisher

As a speciaal needs teacher, I must ask you, could you please not do this?

You make me wet my pants ;-)