Thanks. Looking at data, for me, with 185 and 200 cranks, I was slower on my test course, compared to 175 and 150.

I could not get in aero on the 200's on the PC's, but can do at 175 and lower.

So yes, crank length and fit relate big time, which is why fitter basically ignoring cranks from the folks I have talked to that have paid for fits is interesting.

The other parameter that no one seems to have tested is efficiency with HR relating to RPM's. Was really interesting to see how when I get over 70 rpm, my HR really takes jumps up. This data has allowed me to now try to focus on pushing 70 rpm as my target for the flats.

So far I do not seem to have any limits on how short the cranks get. Just starting to have bike hardware limitations.

Thanks for you story.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

So why would I need to compare myself to young pups?

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

I don't know. Just ignore all the young, and old, pups arrayed in a confederacy against you and Frank.

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It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev

Because you compare yourself to younger people on a regular basis.

I do, show me. Now if asking why so many run so slow is comparing, well, the truth does hurt for some.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

What limits your speed during this ‘hilly’ trainer effort? Are you staying in a certain zone or perceived exertion? If they aren’t max efforts, what stops you from just working harder and hitting the same time? How much are you trying to stay in aero, where you physically limited in your power output with the 200mm cranks?

Basically, your ‘data’ and descriptions don’t add up.

Why do you all keep this going..........

As mentioned before, my HR isn't significantly affected by my cadence. A recent test I did (which was actually to demonstrate that different cadences in different gears would result in the exact same speed and power) showed only a 2bpm variation with various cadences between 47 and 109, maintaining a constant speed and power. My cadence naturally gravitates to 86-90rpm. With no difference in exertion or power output, I figure the best cadence is the one where I'm most comfortable and don't have to think about trying to maintain...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Wow, you clearly are in much better shape than me since between 50 and 110, my HR changes a lot while holding constant power. I would love to see to see how you do this. What power were you pushing?

As I say, I am just gathering data such that when I try racing with stuff, like crank length, bike fit, cadence, etc. I will have reasons why I started that way, then as I get race data, I can try and see how it compares. One concern I have is doing lower RPM and my run speed. But it did not hurt Chrissy, so until I give it a try, who knows. But for me, I do see my HR start to move up after 70 cadence.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Wow, you clearly are in much better shape than me since between 50 and 110, my HR changes a lot while holding constant power.//

One thing about cadence and efficiency. Of course you will test well at the cadence you normally train at, and if you alter that you most likely will get different results. But to really do this test proper, you need to train at a higher cadence for a week or so, do something like limiting yourself to the small chainring, no matter where you are riding. Give you muscles a chance to get used to firing quicker before you test them.


I had a friend that was national TT champion back in the day and he would just grind a 53/11 on the flats for around a 50 flat(road bike of course) He decided to do an experiment and rode only in a 42/18 for 3 weeks. He repeated his 40k TT and did about the same exact same time, only he rode the entire race in a 53/13 and 14. He said he just couldn't put it in any bigger gear, but his ability to spin the smaller ones increased enough to put out the same power. In 3 weeks he changed his muscle firing sweet spot, it was really interesting to see..SO as I see it any testing at a higher cadence more than a few RPM's is not getting good info unless you actually train for it first..And being at 70 leads me to believe there is some upside to pushing for 10+ more RPM"S..

Great inputs. I know spinning the fast stuff now, as I am thinking about it, really burns the legs, which is how I have trained and raced forever. Pushing the lower RPM's just feels more comfortable, and I just gear to get the watts.

So, you should try those shorter cranks you talked about. Never know.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Please, please, please purge "snowflake" from your vocabulary. If you are using it as a label
for one who is overly sensitive and easily offended, you fail to see the irony that you are the biggest goddam "snowflake" on this forum. Using this word signals that you are a fucking asshole with a complete lack of self awareness. You would not want to come across as a fucking asshole with a lack of self awareness, would you?

I'm not saying I disagree with the first couple sentences of your post, but seriously, just use the hide user function rather than these kinds of posts. It's just not necessary, and it's not going to change anything.

I'm kinda surprised you are able to ride well at 70. That low of a cadence burns up my legs completely when I try to ride the same kind of watts as I do at 85 or so, and I'd think my physiology is more suited to gear grinding than yours. Have you tried running fast off the bike after a ride like that? Just curious how it felt.

Serious question:...has anyone met the water chicken in person? and is he as big a douche bag in person as he is on line???

Back in the 80s, a few friends and I would do rides where we weren't just limited to the small ring, but only allowed to use the granny gear. With the 42/23 I had back then, holding 18mph at 125rpm was a pretty big challenge at first, but I actually got fairly comfortable with it after a while...

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Dave, I have learned from slowtwitch a long time ago that for a given power, your HR tends to be higher at a higher cadence. However, there's little evidence that the higher Heart Rate contributed to lower overall performance.

I did a quick google search and found this study for you. http://digitalcommons.wku.edu/...746&context=ijes

I'm the same way. High cadences didn't take more effort, the challenge was keeping the rhythm smooth and flowing. But low rpms took more force. In addition, I've had arthritis most of my life, and my left knee feels like its going to explode at lower rpms.

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"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"

Because it's kind of entertaining?

I am very interested in seeing the conclusion to this.

I agree, it’s entertaining to see Dave dig that hole deeper and prove he is really an ass. But, it will never reach a conclusion. He will keep proping this thread all winter, doesn’t matter if anyone else engages. If this thread dies, he’ll just start another one that is at least as stupid and self serving as this one.

He will continue until he can’t physically write or dictate a post. Another 25yrs based on average life expectancy...

I'm pretty new to triathlon / bikes / ST... what's the short summary on this Frank Day character?

Check out this thread...googled frank day snakeoil...

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ost=2661440#p2661440

In short; the mere fact of one's incompetence makes one incompetent in the field of understanding one's incompetence and the incompetent tend to be blissfully unaware of it. The more incompetent, the more misaligned one's perception tends to be from reality.

It's an all pervasive phenomenon in society. It explains a lot!

Jim,

The Dunning/Kruger research is so darn appropriate to this discussion that I felt we needed a functional link to it.

http://psych.colorado.edu/~vanboven/teaching/p7536_heurbias/p7536_readings/kruger_dunning.pdf

Hugh

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Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.

I only read the first couple of paragraphs, but that was great and applicable :-)
I hope I am not guilty of the lemon juice hypothesis. However, I guess that if I am I wouldn't know it :-)

fixed the link you provided