Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [altayloraus] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 11:33

Post #326 of 509 (4044 views)

altayloraus wrote:

Up until today his Ironman Pb was less than a minute slower than Sanders.

You’d have to line up behind me to call him a disingenuous flog, but he’s not slow.

The next person to get invited will be the person with the most social media followers who rides the same bike as Jan and promotes Zwift.

I can't imagine why people don't realize this.

Lucy Charles Barkley has more of a chance of being the next invitee than Iden.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 11:36

Post #327 of 509 (4022 views)

Did that stand alone IM between Dave Scott and Mark Allen happen back in the day or was this the first event the first of it's kind?

When Jan went down on his hip anything could've happened but luckily it wasn't game over

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 11:50

Post #328 of 509 (3936 views)

Adman wrote:

good performance given his performance in Cda. But I don't think the travel is a big deal as European athletes do this all the time for big US events. Did he only arrive a week out?

I don’t know if it made any difference or not, but in having to travel over the Atlantic quite a bit for work I’ll say it’s quite a bit more difficult for me to travel West to East than the East to West leg.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Klaus Daimler] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 11:59

Post #329 of 509 (3859 views)

Klaus Daimler wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

What has AB done to show that he is worthy of the invitation? He sucks at long course if you have not noticed.

He has raced three Ironman and won two of them. The one he didn’t was Kona where he finished 21st after flatting on the bike. 22nd place that day was Sanders…

You sure have been putting in a strong push lately for worst poster on slowtwitch

Who did AB beat at IM? Any real competition? I will do your homework for you. Here are the results from his two wins:
2019 IM Cork
2019 IM Western Australia

A ton of other IM athletes have won Ironman races and they are not in the discussion. Holler back when AB shows he is even remotely worthy of challenging the GOAT beyond Slowtwitch internet racing.

While you are at it save your ad hominem for someone else, asshole.

I don't like AB as he is a dirty racer, but him and Gomez pushed Frodo to the limit at the 2018 70.3 worlds. Frodo had to go 66 min on the half marathon to crack them. I know it's not the full distance, but wouldn't be quick on writing him off just yet.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Engner66] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:14

Post #330 of 509 (3769 views)

Engner66 wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

What has AB done to show that he is worthy of the invitation? He sucks at long course if you have not noticed.

He has raced three Ironman and won two of them. The one he didn’t was Kona where he finished 21st after flatting on the bike. 22nd place that day was Sanders…

You sure have been putting in a strong push lately for worst poster on slowtwitch

Who did AB beat at IM? Any real competition? I will do your homework for you. Here are the results from his two wins:
2019 IM Cork
2019 IM Western Australia

A ton of other IM athletes have won Ironman races and they are not in the discussion. Holler back when AB shows he is even remotely worthy of challenging the GOAT beyond Slowtwitch internet racing.

While you are at it save your ad hominem for someone else, asshole.

As someone else mentioned AB would not get an invite as he doesn't ride a Canyon, but he's the only person with a chance of betting Frodo when he's at 100%. He lacks a bit of patience, but I can't think of any other long distance Triathletes who are world class in swim, bike and run. Would be exciting as they would be neck and neck for a good portion of the race. Maybe they could get Kienle and Sanders in there as well trying to chase them down on the bike.

I don't like AB as he is a dirty racer, but him and Gomez pushed Frodo to the limit at the 2018 70.3 worlds. Frodo had to go 66 min on the half marathon to crack them. I know it's not the full distance, but wouldn't be quick on writing him off just yet.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:35

Post #331 of 509 (3645 views)

Adman wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

What has AB done to show that he is worthy of the invitation? He sucks at long course if you have not noticed.

He has raced three Ironman and won two of them. The one he didn’t was Kona where he finished 21st after flatting on the bike. 22nd place that day was Sanders…

You sure have been putting in a strong push lately for worst poster on slowtwitch

Who did AB beat at IM? Any real competition? I will do your homework for you. Here are the results from his two wins:
2019 IM Cork
2019 IM Western Australia

A ton of other IM athletes have won Ironman races and they are not in the discussion. Holler back when AB shows he is even remotely worthy of challenging the GOAT beyond Slowtwitch internet racing.

While you are at it save your ad hominem for someone else, asshole.

Bit harsh on AB given he is the GOAT at Short Course and hasn't yet fully committed to long course.

I'll be honest I think his Long Course career will be far less successful but who knows he could pull a Jan and end up being the true GOAT.

I don't think you appreciate how jetlag going east and peak tri performance work. When. You go east you are racing an Ironman in the middle of your REM sleep cycle. A 7 am start is a 1am start for your body and you are are racing the first 5 hours during times you normally are asleep.

When you go west you race during times that you are normally awake.

It's not like he arrived the day before but it still hurts and you have to do a sleepless RedEye flight on the way over one week before racing and I the case of Lionel 2 weeks after doing another Ironman. His organs are still recovering from the race and after the RedEye flight you need a few more days to perform again.

Jan slept in his bed in his own time zone. Have you ever flown to Europe from North America for an Ironman. Lionel has never done it and he had to experience that cycle for the first time. European pros rarely have to do that

In fairness when Euro pros for direct to Hawaii they have a massive disadvantage with the 12 hrs time change is they show up a week before hand.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:41

Post #332 of 509 (3616 views)

JFHJR wrote:

altayloraus wrote:

Up until today his Ironman Pb was less than a minute slower than Sanders.

You’d have to line up behind me to call him a disingenuous flog, but he’s not slow.

The next person to get invited will be the person with the most social media followers who rides the same bike as Jan and promotes Zwift.

I can't imagine why people don't realize this.

Lucy Charles Barkley has more of a chance of being the next invitee than Iden.

Yeh this is true. Almost like a Boxing type model.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:49

Post #333 of 509 (3574 views)

Does anyone know what Lionel’s run split was?

Dimond Bikes Superfan

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:50

Post #334 of 509 (3565 views)

ericlambi wrote:

Does anyone know what Lionel’s run split was?

2:50

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 12:56

Post #335 of 509 (3530 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

Adman wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

Chemist wrote:

Klaus Daimler wrote:

What has AB done to show that he is worthy of the invitation? He sucks at long course if you have not noticed.

He has raced three Ironman and won two of them. The one he didn’t was Kona where he finished 21st after flatting on the bike. 22nd place that day was Sanders…

You sure have been putting in a strong push lately for worst poster on slowtwitch

Who did AB beat at IM? Any real competition? I will do your homework for you. Here are the results from his two wins:
2019 IM Cork
2019 IM Western Australia

A ton of other IM athletes have won Ironman races and they are not in the discussion. Holler back when AB shows he is even remotely worthy of challenging the GOAT beyond Slowtwitch internet racing.

While you are at it save your ad hominem for someone else, asshole.

Bit harsh on AB given he is the GOAT at Short Course and hasn't yet fully committed to long course.

I'll be honest I think his Long Course career will be far less successful but who knows he could pull a Jan and end up being the true GOAT.

I don't think you appreciate how jetlag going east and peak tri performance work. When. You go east you are racing an Ironman in the middle of your REM sleep cycle. A 7 am start is a 1am start for your body and you are are racing the first 5 hours during times you normally are asleep.

When you go west you race during times that you are normally awake.

It's not like he arrived the day before but it still hurts and you have to do a sleepless RedEye flight on the way over one week before racing and I the case of Lionel 2 weeks after doing another Ironman. His organs are still recovering from the race and after the RedEye flight you need a few more days to perform again.

Jan slept in his bed in his own time zone. Have you ever flown to Europe from North America for an Ironman. Lionel has never done it and he had to experience that cycle for the first time. European pros rarely have to do that

In fairness when Euro pros for direct to Hawaii they have a massive disadvantage with the 12 hrs time change is they show up a week before hand.

I forget we are doing it the easy way coming from Europe.

I've raced once in Japan from Europe but the way we planned it, it worked out okay with a 1 weeks prep. But that was sprint distance draft legal. Not quite the same.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [JFHJR] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 13:36

Post #336 of 509 (3307 views)

JFHJR wrote:

altayloraus wrote:

Up until today his Ironman Pb was less than a minute slower than Sanders.

You’d have to line up behind me to call him a disingenuous flog, but he’s not slow.

The next person to get invited will be the person with the most social media followers who rides the same bike as Jan and promotes Zwift.

I can't imagine why people don't realize this.

Lucy Charles Barkley has more of a chance of being the next invitee than Iden.

Triathlon Taren? ;-)

Last edited by: Fredo_Adagio: Jul 18, 21 13:37

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [IntenseOne] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 13:42

Post #337 of 509 (3268 views)

IntenseOne wrote:

“ It is a larger event in which records may be broken during the course of natural competition. ”

So, your saying the size of the event is what determines the legitimacy of a record? I definitely do not agree with your premise.
Bike tracks have been constructed so 1 person can attempt to set a world record. If a marathon course was planned that met the rules in place for a Marathon WR, and only 2 athletes raced, if a record was broken it would be accepted. A shorter version of this occurred last year when a women’s world record was set for 10 miles on a course set up for speed that met all record standards, and was run by only 1 women, for the purpose of trying to break the record, which was certified and accepted.

Should other people have been invited? Maybe. Does it change things when there are more athletes on the course? Probably, but maybe faster or slower :-)

Bottom line- If a course or venue meets the conditions established for a world record, and someone races the course under the established rules, the record should stand regardless of the number of competitors. And you know it!

Most marathon records today have pacers. This didn't have any of that, but it had a competitor that could seize the opportunity if Jan had an off day, which he almost had. You could argue this is more legitimate since there were no pacers.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Adman] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 13:57

Post #338 of 509 (3191 views)

I get a kick out of your choice of words, someone in the top 10 in the World is not a great athlete! Guess only the top 5 meet your requirements! Funny, most on here, if they finish in the top half of their event consider themselves a great athlete (ok, maybe a little pink here)!

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 13:57

Post #339 of 509 (3179 views)

TheStroBro wrote:

IntenseOne wrote:

“ It is a larger event in which records may be broken during the course of natural competition. ”

So, your saying the size of the event is what determines the legitimacy of a record? I definitely do not agree with your premise.
Bike tracks have been constructed so 1 person can attempt to set a world record. If a marathon course was planned that met the rules in place for a Marathon WR, and only 2 athletes raced, if a record was broken it would be accepted. A shorter version of this occurred last year when a women’s world record was set for 10 miles on a course set up for speed that met all record standards, and was run by only 1 women, for the purpose of trying to break the record, which was certified and accepted.

Should other people have been invited? Maybe. Does it change things when there are more athletes on the course? Probably, but maybe faster or slower :-)

Bottom line- If a course or venue meets the conditions established for a world record, and someone races the course under the established rules, the record should stand regardless of the number of competitors. And you know it!

Most marathon records today have pacers. This didn't have any of that, but it had a competitor that could seize the opportunity if Jan had an off day, which he almost had. You could argue this is more legitimate since there were no pacers.

How did Jan almost have an off day? He beat a world class cyclist handily.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Fredo_Adagio] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 14:01

Post #340 of 509 (3160 views)

Fredo_Adagio wrote:

JFHJR wrote:

altayloraus wrote:

Up until today his Ironman Pb was less than a minute slower than Sanders.

You’d have to line up behind me to call him a disingenuous flog, but he’s not slow.

The next person to get invited will be the person with the most social media followers who rides the same bike as Jan and promotes Zwift.

I can't imagine why people don't realize this.

Lucy Charles Barkley has more of a chance of being the next invitee than Iden.

Triathlon Taren? ;-)

🤣 well done

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [turningscrews] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 14:10

Post #341 of 509 (3101 views)

turningscrews wrote:

TheStroBro wrote:

IntenseOne wrote:

“ It is a larger event in which records may be broken during the course of natural competition. ”

So, your saying the size of the event is what determines the legitimacy of a record? I definitely do not agree with your premise.
Bike tracks have been constructed so 1 person can attempt to set a world record. If a marathon course was planned that met the rules in place for a Marathon WR, and only 2 athletes raced, if a record was broken it would be accepted. A shorter version of this occurred last year when a women’s world record was set for 10 miles on a course set up for speed that met all record standards, and was run by only 1 women, for the purpose of trying to break the record, which was certified and accepted.

Should other people have been invited? Maybe. Does it change things when there are more athletes on the course? Probably, but maybe faster or slower :-)

Bottom line- If a course or venue meets the conditions established for a world record, and someone races the course under the established rules, the record should stand regardless of the number of competitors. And you know it!

Most marathon records today have pacers. This didn't have any of that, but it had a competitor that could seize the opportunity if Jan had an off day, which he almost had. You could argue this is more legitimate since there were no pacers.

How did Jan almost have an off day? He beat a world class cyclist handily.

I think he may be referring to Jan's fall on the run and appeared to land on his hip, scary moment, especially considering he had a stress fracture of the hip in 2018...fortunately he was able to continue and wasn't (seriously) injured

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Fredo_Adagio] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 14:21

Post #342 of 509 (3041 views)

Fredo_Adagio wrote:

JFHJR wrote:

altayloraus wrote:

Up until today his Ironman Pb was less than a minute slower than Sanders.

You’d have to line up behind me to call him a disingenuous flog, but he’s not slow.

The next person to get invited will be the person with the most social media followers who rides the same bike as Jan and promotes Zwift.

I can't imagine why people don't realize this.

Lucy Charles Barkley has more of a chance of being the next invitee than Iden.

Triathlon Taren? ;-)

Triathlon Taren vs Iron Cowboy would actually be really entertaining to watch. Could call it the Battle of Canada.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [monty] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 14:36

Post #343 of 509 (4312 views)

Was able to watch it live and all things considered it was pretty good viewing. Jan is pure class, never looked in danger at any point. Kudos to Lionel after the three weeks he has just had that was pretty damn impressive too.
Must be some future for this type of event but probably need half a dozen male and same number female athletes to make it more of a spectacle.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Mike.A] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 15:10

Post #344 of 509 (4190 views)

Mike.A wrote:

turningscrews wrote:

TheStroBro wrote:

Most marathon records today have pacers. This didn't have any of that, but it had a competitor that could seize the opportunity if Jan had an off day, which he almost had. You could argue this is more legitimate since there were no pacers.

How did Jan almost have an off day? He beat a world class cyclist handily.

I think he may be referring to Jan's fall on the run and appeared to land on his hip, scary moment, especially considering he had a stress fracture of the hip in 2018...fortunately he was able to continue and wasn't (seriously) injured

Correct. And to address 'ol Mr Sarcasm up above as well. Lionel has one real weapon in his repertoire and a swim that holds him back a bit. Jan has all three. So yes, the result was somewhat of a foregone conclusion. However, the conclusion was probably foregone if Jan had requested anyone else join him as well.

The event was buttressed with Sponsorship by two companies that sponsor both of them. Zwift and Canyon. So you could even say that this was a Sponsor engagement platform. As Dan said on the front page. The two most followed athletes on Zwift are Jan Frodeno and Lionel Sanders. The third most followed person is Lucy Charles-Barclay.

ETA- Also, I started re-watching this since when I woke up we were just short of the half marathon point. They were like on the broadcast: "No expense was spared". Have to say yeah, this is the most impressive broadcast I've watched in triathlon. I wish they had done both cameras at the same time once they were on the bike.

Washed up footy player turned Triathlete.

Last edited by: TheStroBro: Jul 18, 21 15:14

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [abrowntd] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 15:15

Post #345 of 509 (4169 views)

abrowntd wrote:

I get a kick out of your choice of words, someone in the top 10 in the World is not a great athlete! Guess only the top 5 meet your requirements! Funny, most on here, if they finish in the top half of their event consider themselves a great athlete (ok, maybe a little pink here)!

Ha ha I dunno if the pink is required ;) Great is a relative term I guess. I just mean among the pros, the folk who win the big races - world champs, multiple world podiums etc. It's been 4 years since the Kona podium and things have definitely moved on since then. Just now I'd place LS somewhere between 5-10 at Kona on a good day. There will be a small window where he can one day win but that will depend as much on others as it will on him.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [TheStroBro] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 15:19

Post #346 of 509 (4150 views)

TheStroBro wrote:

Mike.A wrote:

turningscrews wrote:

TheStroBro wrote:

Most marathon records today have pacers. This didn't have any of that, but it had a competitor that could seize the opportunity if Jan had an off day, which he almost had. You could argue this is more legitimate since there were no pacers.

How did Jan almost have an off day? He beat a world class cyclist handily.

I think he may be referring to Jan's fall on the run and appeared to land on his hip, scary moment, especially considering he had a stress fracture of the hip in 2018...fortunately he was able to continue and wasn't (seriously) injured

Correct. And to address 'ol Mr Sarcasm up above as well. Lionel has one real weapon in his repertoire and a swim that holds him back a bit. Jan has all three. So yes, the result was somewhat of a foregone conclusion. However, the conclusion was probably foregone if Jan had requested anyone else join him as well.

The event was buttressed with Sponsorship by two companies that sponsor both of them. Zwift and Canyon. So you could even say that this was a Sponsor engagement platform. As Dan said on the front page. The two most followed athletes on Zwift are Jan Frodeno and Lionel Sanders. The third most followed person is Lucy Charles-Barclay.

Lionel going 7:43 was not a foregone conclusion. Not after blowing up at IMCda and several not great IMs in a row and just doing an IM 3 weeks ago. This could have easily turned into a 4 hrs walk/shuffle, yet he pulled off a very credible 2:50 run after a PB swim and PB bike. The haters were probably hoping that he's walk it in. Sorry to dissappoint them. He pulled off one of the top 10 times all time (I think only Jan, Ralaert, Tim Don and Lionel himself have gone sub 7:45....I don't recall if Marino went under 7:45) . Brent McMahon may have one sub 7:50. But that's it. It is select club and this is Lionel's third time sub 7:50 if I recall correctly.

They also had a tough day with cold rain, with no competitors to pace off of. This was a true head to head competition. Super performance by both men. It was probably the most legit Ironman race ever in terms of not benefiting from the draft of others in any sport.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 15:28

Post #347 of 509 (4111 views)

devashish_paul wrote:

Lionel going 7:43 was not a foregone conclusion. Not after blowing up at IMCda and several not great IMs in a row and just doing an IM 3 weeks ago. This could have easily turned into a 4 hrs walk/shuffle, yet he pulled off a very credible 2:50 run after a PB swim and PB bike. The haters were probably hoping that he's walk it in. Sorry to dissappoint them. He pulled off one of the top 10 times all time (I think only Jan, Ralaert, Tim Don and Lionel himself have gone sub 7:45....I don't recall if Marino went under 7:45) . Brent McMahon may have one sub 7:50. But that's it. It is select club and this is Lionel's third time sub 7:50 if I recall correctly.

They also had a tough day with cold rain, with no competitors to pace off of. This was a true head to head competition. Super performance by both men. It was probably the most legit Ironman race ever in terms of not benefiting from the draft of others in any sport.

better yet.... this was a certified distance race (finally!) by DTU, which those sub 7:50 mentions of other racers you did may have been on short courses. even roth bike is short by 2 miles.

Last edited by: synthetic: Jul 18, 21 20:22

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [synthetic] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 16:02

Post #348 of 509 (3988 views)

What was the temperature today? And I’m happy for both of them. I would technically call it a “record”, but honestly who cares? We all know courses, conditions, etc are all different, so it’s hard to give a fair comparison from one to another. But no matter how you slice it, 7:27 and 7:43 are impressive times to say the least.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [Fredo_Adagio] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 17:19

Post #349 of 509 (3719 views)

What’s he been up to recently? I’ve completely lost sight of him.

Re: LIONEL VS JAN. the semi-official race day thread [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]

Jul 18, 21 17:22

Post #350 of 509 (3707 views)

(I think only Jan, Ralaert, Tim Don and Lionel himself have gone sub 7:45....I don't recall if Marino went under 7:45)

+Matt Hanson and Tyler Butterfield.

Marino was 7.45 high at IM Austria.

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