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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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McNulty wrote:
echappist wrote:
McNulty wrote:
eb wrote:
Ai_1 wrote:

Bennett's line was questionable the other day when he drove Viviani to the barriers on the right and then swung across to the left again but today looked okay to me. The rider he contacted was a Quickstep rider looking to obstruct him from chasing Viviani. I think it was legit.
A good win. First GT win in a while for an Irish rider.


Yep, the minimal bumping today was completely legit. Nice to see Bennett win, he was obviously very pleased to get his 1st GT stage win. He's usually impetuous but took his time to launch, even freewheeling briefly not that far from the line. Nice job!


I think since Nick Roche? Dan Martin hasn't won one, which is interesting. A little, anyway.
It's refreshing to see a wide open race and no dominant team for the GC.


Pretty sure Martin won a stage at the Vuelta (back in 2011 or 2012); also a stage at the 2013 Tour. A good while back, sure, but he's had success.


right you are......11 for Vuelta, 13 for TdF..guess Roche won after that...in the discussion of Irish wins, Martin never came up....i guess 5 years is ancient history
Hopefully we'll have a few more in the next few years. Dan Martin is still a potential stage winner, Nicholas Roche isn't typically in the mix but you never know. No need for comment regarding Bennett, and Eddie Dunbar is on the way up.

Anyway, back tot he topic at hand......
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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My current theory is that Froome went into the Giro on a wing and a prayer that he could hold the three grand tour titles, but wasn't willing to sacrifice the 2018 TdF. The big pile of cash the Giro gave him just for showing up at the starting line could mean that he also just saw it as a three week training camp.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
McNulty wrote:

great...wonder what your world ranking is now..i got 2-3...........really messed up not taking Yates, I'd be giving you a run for it


195th! So inside the top 1%.

Your definitely running away with it. My only gamble is picking up Bennett. I wish I used my extra 2 credits not used and did not pick up Pantano and picked up Formolo instead.

The scenery on yesterday stage was stunning!
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [ChrisC42780] [ In reply to ]
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ChrisC42780 wrote:
Your definitely running away with it. My only gamble is picking up Bennett. I wish I used my extra 2 credits not used and did not pick up Pantano and picked up Formolo instead.

I always thought they give you way too many points. You get to pick like 2/3 of the viable GC candidates, so having a good team is more about predicting who will bomb than who will do well. I wish the points only let you pick one super-high-quality GC guy (Froome or Dumoulin) or 2 of the second tier if you skip the top guys.

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The scenery on yesterday stage was stunning!

Unreal. Too bad the racers don't get to enjoy it. :)
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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What will be interesting is if Mitchelton sends Chavez up the road on penultimate climb on stage 14, putting TD to the sword early. The finale is so brutal that it's more or less everyman for themselves regardless. Stage 15 is no picnic either.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Lot of racing left in this one, way too soon to crown a victor. It’s gonna come down to third week and who is hitting form versus gassing. That’s the big question in my mind for TD or Yates.

Yeah, there is plenty of opportunity to gain or lose boatloads of time the between stages 14 and 20. And the way stages 19 and 20 are set up, it gives opportunity for guys to send teammates in the break and swing for the fences early if they are down on time. I also wouldn't count Froome out just yet. I think his chances of winning the Giro are extremely small...but I think he might stick it out to go out on the attack for training purposes and may shake things up.

If I am TD, I'm not feeling very comfortable right now. At this point, even if he puts 3 minutes on Yates and Chavez in the TT, he's got to hope that they fade and he gets stronger in the mountains as the tour goes on. At his rate, I think he bleeds more than 5 minutes to both of them in the remaining mountain stages.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
What will be interesting is if Mitchelton sends Chavez up the road on penultimate climb on stage 14, putting TD to the sword early. The finale is so brutal that it's more or less everyman for themselves regardless. Stage 15 is no picnic either.

I'd save him for stage 15; as you said, everyone man for himself on Zoncolan, so Chavez has to be on a really good day or he might crack on the final ascent. Stage 15 is much more open to chaos. Teammates up the road and perhaps even a countryman up the road may let him save energy in the break and put time into TD
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Lot of racing left in this one, way too soon to crown a victor. It’s gonna come down to third week and who is hitting form versus gassing. That’s the big question in my mind for TD or Yates.


Yeah, there is plenty of opportunity to gain or lose boatloads of time the between stages 14 and 20. And the way stages 19 and 20 are set up, it gives opportunity for guys to send teammates in the break and swing for the fences early if they are down on time. I also wouldn't count Froome out just yet. I think his chances of winning the Giro are extremely small...but I think he might stick it out to go out on the attack for training purposes and may shake things up.

If I am TD, I'm not feeling very comfortable right now. At this point, even if he puts 3 minutes on Yates and Chavez in the TT, he's got to hope that they fade and he gets stronger in the mountains as the tour goes on. At his rate, I think he bleeds more than 5 minutes to both of them in the remaining mountain stages.

A lot of people thought TD would lose many minutes to Quintana in last years Giro during week 3 in the mountains, but it didn't happen like they envisaged [nobody anticipated his nature stop tho]
He was able to hang with the climbers through most of the very difficult stages and lost a handful of seconds; I'm anticipating the same this time around, especially since Sunweb brought more climbers in the roster for week 3.

res, non verba
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, agree. TD has shown that while he can't necessary punch like the climbers he can go into TT mode and not give up a lot.

Egan Bernal... that kid is good.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed on both counts. TD isn't going to give up multiple minutes in my opinion. He will pace himself up those climbs and though he will lose time, he will gain time in the TT and that should be enough. I will say, Simon looks killer right now and it wouldn't surprise me if he might be able to hang on. I still tip my cap to TD though.

Bernal is looking amazing, I took holiday to the United States for the past few weeks and I am here in California catching a few stages. Everything I've seen from Bernal the past few years as well as what he did today makes me think I'm seeing the classiest climber I've ever witnessed with my own eyes. This chap will take GC wins; if not this year than he will in the future.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [RoYe] [ In reply to ]
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RoYe wrote:
Jason N wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Lot of racing left in this one, way too soon to crown a victor. It’s gonna come down to third week and who is hitting form versus gassing. That’s the big question in my mind for TD or Yates.


Yeah, there is plenty of opportunity to gain or lose boatloads of time the between stages 14 and 20. And the way stages 19 and 20 are set up, it gives opportunity for guys to send teammates in the break and swing for the fences early if they are down on time. I also wouldn't count Froome out just yet. I think his chances of winning the Giro are extremely small...but I think he might stick it out to go out on the attack for training purposes and may shake things up.

If I am TD, I'm not feeling very comfortable right now. At this point, even if he puts 3 minutes on Yates and Chavez in the TT, he's got to hope that they fade and he gets stronger in the mountains as the tour goes on. At his rate, I think he bleeds more than 5 minutes to both of them in the remaining mountain stages.


A lot of people thought TD would lose many minutes to Quintana in last years Giro during week 3 in the mountains, but it didn't happen like they envisaged [nobody anticipated his nature stop tho]
He was able to hang with the climbers through most of the very difficult stages and lost a handful of seconds; I'm anticipating the same this time around, especially since Sunweb brought more climbers in the roster for week 3.

I thought the same last year. What is working against TD this year though is that the TT is before the last 2 mountain stages. So assuming TD has pink after stage 16, his competitors will know the exact time they have to gain on him to peel the jersey off his back and can plan appropriately.

Also, I look at last mountain stages of last year (18-20), compared to this year (19-20) and see big differences that does not favor TD. I ask myself, could TD make it to the base of the final climb with the GC group and manage his losses from there in each stage. Or would there be long range attacks from the GC group and it would be a free for all well before the final climb of the stage.

When I look at last year's 18-20 (hindsight is 20/20 of course), I see crazy amounts of climbing and nastiness, but a profile where the lead group is likely to still be together at the base of the last climb. There was just too much descending and flats/rolling into the final climb for a GC guy to take the risk.

This year on the other hand, I look at the Finestre, and I ask my self if TD can hang with the GC group who will want to attack from 85-95 km out knowing the rest of the stage is all uphill or downhill. Sunweb will likely keep their entire team with TD in the peloton, but all the other GC teams will send guys in the break. If even just 2 GC contenders crest the Finestre with a 20 second gap on TD (I expect it will be more), look out. Their teams will pull guys from the break back and suddenly you'll see 4-6 guys working together to distance TD who may not have any teammates left with him. Same goes for stage 20 with about 40 km to go...there is a legit launch pad prior to the final climb that is relatively low risk high reward for the GC guys to make their move early.

If TD wins this year's Giro...he will have proven he can climb with the best of them.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
RoYe wrote:
Jason N wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
Lot of racing left in this one, way too soon to crown a victor. It’s gonna come down to third week and who is hitting form versus gassing. That’s the big question in my mind for TD or Yates.


Yeah, there is plenty of opportunity to gain or lose boatloads of time the between stages 14 and 20. And the way stages 19 and 20 are set up, it gives opportunity for guys to send teammates in the break and swing for the fences early if they are down on time. I also wouldn't count Froome out just yet. I think his chances of winning the Giro are extremely small...but I think he might stick it out to go out on the attack for training purposes and may shake things up.

If I am TD, I'm not feeling very comfortable right now. At this point, even if he puts 3 minutes on Yates and Chavez in the TT, he's got to hope that they fade and he gets stronger in the mountains as the tour goes on. At his rate, I think he bleeds more than 5 minutes to both of them in the remaining mountain stages.


A lot of people thought TD would lose many minutes to Quintana in last years Giro during week 3 in the mountains, but it didn't happen like they envisaged [nobody anticipated his nature stop tho]
He was able to hang with the climbers through most of the very difficult stages and lost a handful of seconds; I'm anticipating the same this time around, especially since Sunweb brought more climbers in the roster for week 3.


I thought the same last year. What is working against TD this year though is that the TT is before the last 2 mountain stages. So assuming TD has pink after stage 16, his competitors will know the exact time they have to gain on him to peel the jersey off his back and can plan appropriately.

Also, I look at last mountain stages of last year (18-20), compared to this year (19-20) and see big differences that does not favor TD. I ask myself, could TD make it to the base of the final climb with the GC group and manage his losses from there in each stage. Or would there be long range attacks from the GC group and it would be a free for all well before the final climb of the stage.

When I look at last year's 18-20 (hindsight is 20/20 of course), I see crazy amounts of climbing and nastiness, but a profile where the lead group is likely to still be together at the base of the last climb. There was just too much descending and flats/rolling into the final climb for a GC guy to take the risk.

This year on the other hand, I look at the Finestre, and I ask my self if TD can hang with the GC group who will want to attack from 85-95 km out knowing the rest of the stage is all uphill or downhill. Sunweb will likely keep their entire team with TD in the peloton, but all the other GC teams will send guys in the break. If even just 2 GC contenders crest the Finestre with a 20 second gap on TD (I expect it will be more), look out. Their teams will pull guys from the break back and suddenly you'll see 4-6 guys working together to distance TD who may not have any teammates left with him. Same goes for stage 20 with about 40 km to go...there is a legit launch pad prior to the final climb that is relatively low risk high reward for the GC guys to make their move early.

If TD wins this year's Giro...he will have proven he can climb with the best of them.

Great analysis...agreed about there being launch pad opportunities for other teams to gap TD before some of the final climbs using riders from the break dropping back. You would think that Bahrain Merida, Emirates and Scott can all afford to do that?
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Jason N] [ In reply to ]
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Jason N wrote:
So assuming TD has pink after stage 16, his competitors will know the exact time they have to gain on him to peel the jersey off his back and can plan appropriately.


I call it a tactical wash. TD will then know exactly how much leash he can give surging attacks on climbs - similarly to how Froome let Quintana get a minute or so up the road a few times while he continued to diesel up the climb.

I like M-S much better than Sunweb as teams go, though. I'd love to have Tuft, Keuziger, Bewley et al, as my posse of thugs.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Thinking the same, TD could be in a defensive position. All things considered, didn't give up that much riding the Stelvio solo last year, and when Wiggo won ToC, he basically rode all of Mt. Diablo at a tempo that barely anyone could attack from far out. If TD did that it'd force the climbers to burn matches trying to get up the road.

M-S has looked solid but it'll be week 3 when it really counts, and the Sunweb supporting cast is on cruise control right now.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Thinking the same, TD could be in a defensive position. All things considered, didn't give up that much riding the Stelvio solo last year, and when Wiggo won ToC, he basically rode all of Mt. Diablo at a tempo that barely anyone could attack from far out. If TD did that it'd force the climbers to burn matches trying to get up the road.

M-S has looked solid but it'll be week 3 when it really counts, and the Sunweb supporting cast is on cruise control right now.

Once it gets steep enough and group drafting has minimal impact, Tom Doumoulin's team can simply do the math and calculate the fastest the lightweights can make it to the top which is pretty well a deterministic number based on their power to weight, and they can calculate his time up the climb for a given power within seconds and sit on that number and limit losses. This would be the best tactic than worrying about yoyo lightweight climber surges during which those guys just ensure that their cumulative time to the top is slower than if they also just sat on their number given drafting will have less impact. Giant should basically be able to calculate exactly the worst case time loss if they just have TD sit on his power number on the steepest grade. Then it's down to the TT
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
...deterministic number blah blah blah




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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Carapaz. Equadoran for “ rides away from”. I’d keep a close eye on this kid. Wins a stage and comes right back for 8th and picks up 2 spots in the process. I don’t see why he can’t move up more.

I think with the crazy climbing to come it’s about who can ride away from whom. The big team train dominance thing that destroys the front group is not really happening.

Chavez Yates look too good. TD is remarkable but he’s not dropping these guys. They’re going to wait until the gradient gets nasty and TD can only grind it out. He’ll limit losses but not enough, I think. Pinot could spoil the M Scott party too.

And then there is the “jour sans”. The day without. They all will have one now that the peloton is, um, cleanish. When does it occur and how does the GC guy limit his losses?
Last edited by: McNulty: May 15, 18 4:46
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Yeah, agree. TD has shown that while he can't necessary punch like the climbers he can go into TT mode and not give up a lot.

Egan Bernal... that kid is good.

They’ve got to throw him in the Vuelta.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Bernard looks awesome atm. Chaves is having his jour sans today. That was a surprise
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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Sky pisses me off again.

Chavez and a few others fell off the back of the peloton and Sky drilled it to keep them off and in the process reeled in a nice break group. Tony Martin was in the break then dropped the break and went with one guy from Israeli cycling. How would you like to be the only guy trying to ride away with Martin? He didn't last long.

On a cool note, the local kid on Bardiani, Ciccone, on his rest day went to a memorial for victims of an avalanche that destroyed a hotel last year. And then he got in the break today.
Last edited by: McNulty: May 15, 18 4:35
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [McNulty] [ In reply to ]
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No fan of Sky but that’s the smart play. Bit of a turn of affairs today.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
No fan of Sky but that’s the smart play. Bit of a turn of affairs today.

true, though someone should still stick a copy of How to Win Friends and Influence People in Sir Dave's X-mas stocking
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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Mohoric is such an insane descender. The weight of his massive balls must help him downhill.
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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turdburgler wrote:
Mohoric is such an insane descender. The weight of his massive balls must help him downhill.


i think i was one of the first to take note of his pedaling while tucked style. dude sure is aero AF. I hope he wins with all the energy saved

Just found a good clip of that U23 race. and then for good measure after the descent, solo'ed it home while doing the IAB. Like a boss. Second place on that day was no slouch either: a certain Louis Mientjes.

The first four to go over the final passage of Via Salviatti were: Mohoric, Meintjes, Ewan, and Yates. What a group. Took a while for Mohoric to flourish.

The announcer was more than bemused, skip to 8 min 15 sec

Last edited by: echappist: May 15, 18 8:31
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Re: 2018 Giro D’Italia- SPOILER ALERT [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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I remember that race. Froome popularized it, but I don't recall ever seeing it before Matej. I hope he wins today. I'm certainly a fan.
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