Did you see the post from The Secret Pro?

https://cyclingtips.com/...s-crazy-giro-attack/

Very good analysis.

I wasn't buying Philippa Yorke's post at all.

And I have just found it that it is really Robert Miller. (As in I didn't know who she was so had to google).

I used to like his blogs about racing but some of his recent stuff (mainly posted under 'Philippa York') seems very uninformed as to the nuances of modern day sports science and how to approach big races, particularly long multi day races. Which isn't unexpected given how long ago he was properly active in the sport.

Guess you missed the bit where he transitioned from Mr Robert Millar to Ms Philippa York - https://www.bbc.com/sport/cycling/40529614

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Trust me I’m a doctor!
Well, I have a PhD :-)

Can I propose for consideration the nickname Stembuterol ?

Rich.

No, I didn't miss that.

This is definitely true. David Moncutie comes to mind.

Yeah, its like Bjorn Borg providing expert commentary on Roger Federer....the game has changed since wooden tennis rackets too. The old guys/women could temper what they say on what is possible or not in today's pro sport when they just pull their own experienced based opinion out of the air and apply it like it is universal truth. Robert Millar in his day had several near wins at the Vuelta and one near win at the Giro. Sure, he/she has credibiliity from that angle, but also the same writer can be viewed as havinig a non winner's bias ("if I could not win this way, no one can" etc). When there is a critical analysis (or a flat out throwing of anyone under the bus, I am going to look at the writer's personal biases on the story aside from what they objectively say or not.

Froome may just be on the same crap that Dumoulin, Pinot, Carapez and Lopez are/were on that day. Doping aside his execution on the last 80K was superior. All the tactics in terms of gear selection, style of riding, risk taking, pacing and fueling he did better than the other guys. It was completely well organized. He was on the offensive everyone was reacting, but they were not just reacting to one small attack....they were reacting to this long drawn out campaign that Sky had planned out. If there were blood bags involved, then the other chasers were on blood bags too, or they would have been off the back like Yates, Woods and many other strongmen.

The mistake that the other team may have made was never nailing the Sky coffin shut in the first half of the Giro when he was banged up. They left Froome dangling close enough to have hope starting weeks 3 on Zoncolan.

So then you would agree that Yates did all the right things in the mountains the first 2 weeks by attacking often to gain time, and your suggestion of him possibly pacing the final TT 20-30 seconds slower to save his legs for the final climbs was total garbage? Because he basically tried to do exactly what you suggested in bold and unfortunately he came up short. In terms of Dumoulin, are you implying he should have taken the opportunity to go with Yates on some of those attacks (or Froome on the Zoncolon), but chose not to because he wasn't worried about Froome's position behind him, or Yate's position ahead of him?

All in all, the racing at this Giro has been fantastic. Guys put it on the line early and often and rarely did we see the top 5 GC guys ride to the line together on a stage that had the possibility of time gaps. Sometimes it's fun to play monday morning quarterback...but you're kind of all over the place.

velon have belatedly released some power data from froome on stage 19. i haven't seen detail and there don't seem to be any direct comparisons let alone a full picture but general summary is that his power was similar to dumoulon's through the critical sections so the difference was benefit of being a bit lighter on the uphills and not waiting for slow FdJ riders on the downhill. both proven strong TT riders did about the same effort on the day. as cyclingnews commented, froome was planning on an 80Km TT so would have been fully prepped in terms of equipment, nutrition and mental composure for that whereas dumoulin may have lacked a few details.

I still think if Yates took the TT easier he would have been safer on week 3. His attacks early were only from shorter range at what appeared to be super high output...could he have dropped Froome earlier in climbs and built a bigger buffer at lower effort from further out vs just doing short range ballistic attacks for stage win bonus segments. Not sure, but when a rider is hurting it might be better to try early and see if he loses big time vs let him dangle around till later attacks. But maybe they could not do anything useful revving it up early because even a wounded Froome is hard to drop. That's the fun of following an event. It think if we were in a pub interactively discussing vs in text you would get the nuances of where I am coming from.

So you're suggesting Yates should have gone to the front early in climbs and just hammer out a hard tempo to drop the likes of Froome and Dumoulin...just ride them off his wheel to build up a bigger gap? Even if Yates could get a gap early with minimal effort, he'd be playing right into their hands by basically turning the mountains into a ITT...or worse an ITT for Yates and a TTT for the chasers behind him. And if he were able to build up a bigger gap that way, it's not like it comes at no cost.

Whatever the underlying circumstances, Froome killed it. He came in with a plan and it worked great despite the crash in the TT warmup and getting gapped on a couple of the uphill sprint finishes. Dumoulin I think stuck to his plan, and came up short. Yates came in with a plan, it worked extremely well for a while, then he crumbled. It is what it is. Your hindsight is 20/20 suggestions of how things could have been different are certainly creative...but are you even reading what you're writing?

And nobody in contention for the GC paces a TT thinking 2 days ahead. Nobody.

Come on, dude's on a roll. Pass him another doobie....don't spoil the party.

This thread is solid gold! haha

i've read a quote from i think one of the MS DSs (Matt White?) basically saying that Yates destroyed himself in the TT and never recovered from that. the following stage was expected to be easy but turned into yet another giro smashfest so you could say that "sprinters stage" was where yates lost the giro. he took a calculated risk that he could push hard in the earlier mountains and TT and just didn't get the recovery he had banked on.

really, everyone did their race with their tactics and froome came out on top. dumoulin is on record saying he's happy with 2nd on a route that didn't play to his strengths (TT). froome and sky have proven they are masters of working out the right tactical approach to each goal they set. they've played it differently each time but always with the same result except for TdF 2014 when froome crashed which really is just bad luck. i wouldn't be surprised if froome wins the TdF this year, assuming he is allowed to race.

At least we have something to keep entertained with until the Dauphiné gets going.

And I’ll say it again like I did before Giro: one of you bike guys needs to start the Offical TdF thread and not leave it to fate.

PSA the Velogames Dauphine fantasy game is open.

https://www.velogames.com/criterium-du-dauphine/2018/entryform.php#

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"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.

It sounds like Froome will be on the start line for the TdF and they won't get all the legal stuff cleaned up. Hinault will whine the entire time in the mean time about Froome not being among the greats. Not like the greats did not have their positive tests (although I don't recall Hinault having one, but Merckx did and Indurain, well, that's just all high octane dope). So with Hinault's double standard definition, anyone racing after 1995 can't be in the group of great racers. He could not handle Lemond on the same team so at least he is consistent.

Unless the uci and aso have pockets deep enough to go toe to toe with sky he will start

Hinault is a hypocrite and an old curmudgeon. His doctor believed in restoring what was suppressed during training and racing and was receiving injections. Not that he was being boosted beyond natural levels, but the doctor even talked about using testosterone because the cyclists levels were so suppressed.

I don't begrudge any of these people for what happened during each era. I can't imagine the pressure of knowing you likely won't have a job if you aren't keeping a level playing field with others. It is what it is. I also certainly don't condone doping now or in the future. I wish we could get a level AND clean playing field. That is likely wishful thinking though.

Agree 1000 percent. This is the same across all pro sport. Players are put inside a box and they try to maximize unless everything is tightly enforced. Minimally they all try to get level with the other guy. In the process they also try to out fox the other guys and the enforcers. Almost like drivers speeding. Even when there is no testing like on the autobahn, the athletes/drivers still tend to converge on some norms

To continue your analogies:

1. Sometimes you have teams or nations who manage to buy their own, bigger, box.

2. I don´t know if you have driven on Euro motorways but there are of course people who break the norm and do stuff like try to pass on the shoulder or cut people off. In Italy this is silently accepted whereas in Germany, other motorists make it clear that this behaviour is not accepted.