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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Well thank you for your long thought out response.....Appreciate your time. I was asking more to gain knowledge than for myself....................I believe I would be called a triathlete anomoloy for swimming. ................Grew up in the water but never swam in any organized sense. (Survived Lake Erie in the 60's as a little kid,,I do not glow). Started swimmng soley for an Ironman years ago. So, started at 1000 yrds and weekly built up longer till I was swimming 5500 before the race. All swims were just a straight constand yardage. Open turns....no intervals, nothing swam a 1:07.
For next IM, started swimming with masters once a week, the other swims, just one straight long swim.........Next IM, 1:00:20. Have a couple other hour flat swims and one 1:08 in white caps, 30mph winds and hard to see bouys...........(probabaly swam an extra 500yrd)
After a couple of years off, want to go under 1hr. Goal is 59 minutes at an altitude of 5500ft. So have been asking Masters coach Mike Burton. 1650 Gold in 68 and repeat in 72 with a relay gold in 72. .................Another guy looked at me, freind of Leezak(sp?) and another guy who won nationals master Pat Murtach in 200 fly..............I have no kick, never do kick drills, Never have done structure workoouts. ...............All of them have said the same thing to me. To get faster swim harder.Better yet, find a training partner...................Not one said to work on anything on my stroke..So this next 4 months I am going to swim 4x week with a purpose and see if I can hit 59 or less.................................So for a triathlete I imagine that I am an anomoloy and am not one whose example should be followed.
Watching swimmers in Masters faster than me,,,,,man they all look really different above the water.
Personally, I am not going to do any drills but just swim hard sets. With a long straight swim once in awhile. I know most say this is not necesarry but it works for me. I'll let you know how it works.......Cheers Kenney
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

To clarify, I only suggested above the water because 99.9% of triathletes don't have access to a below-the-water camera (to film themselves). So by focusing on what is going on above the water, they can at least make a fair comparison to themselves.

A man walking down the street one night spotted another man, obviously drunk, on his hands and knees, crawling on the road under a lamppost. The first man asks the drunk what he's doing: "I'm looking for my keys." The first man asks where he thinks he dropped them: pointing across the street, he says "over there." When asked why he's looking here when he lost them over there, the drunk replies "Because the light's better here."

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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Funny story. But the bottom line is that both are important: what happens above the water and what happens below the water. Also, interesting is that when you start making corrections to what is going wrong above the water, it becomes way easier to understand and fix what is going on below the water. In addition, a good observer right next to the swimmer but on the pool deck can easily see most of what is going on below the water. An observer, yes. A camera, not so much.

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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
...interesting is that when you start making corrections to what is going wrong above the water, it becomes way easier to understand and fix what is going on below the water.

Nope, the other way around. You're seem a little confused for a master...
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [The Authority] [ In reply to ]
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Uh, I don't recall 'master' being used anywhere by me.

So I am curious, do you have any IP time?

And, not to forget, thanks for making such great contributions to this forum.

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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
Funny story. But the bottom line is that both are important: what happens above the water and what happens below the water. Also, interesting is that when you start making corrections to what is going wrong above the water, it becomes way easier to understand and fix what is going on below the water. In addition, a good observer right next to the swimmer but on the pool deck can easily see most of what is going on below the water. An observer, yes. A camera, not so much.


i will have to disagree with you here. it s the opposite, even more in triathlon. What happen over the water isnt critical often. And i also often push people towards having some none conventional over the water stroke as we deal with a very different reality than pool swimming.

Underwater will tell you the story.... over the water will just fool you.

Jonathan Caron

Jonnyo Coaching
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [klehner] [ In reply to ]
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Ken class post, but I have to ask, do you think the problem is, that the guy is drunk, or that he cant think rationally ;-)

http://www.pb3coaching.com
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:

Along those lines, I'd actually wager that someone with extensive simulator experience is significantly closer in capabilities to a real pilot than an under-qualified individual attempting to cash in on the triathlon boom by dubbing themselves a "coach" after a weekend USAT course is to an elite level coach who makes his/her living based on his/her track record of success at the highest levels of the sport.

Nah - it's about the same. Maybe with a slight edge to the coach who's taken the weekend USAT course because that person has probably completed a triathlon. Sim jockeys - give me a break.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [JollyRogers] [ In reply to ]
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it's a bad analogy. any idiot can hop in a plane and fly it, or in a sim, and have NO idea how the engine works.

Coaches need to know how the engine works, instructor pilots need to know how students internalize knowledge and information and to help them visualize and feel how to fly a plane.

but the analogy breaks down... flying can best be learned by doing (Yeager, et al), whereas there is a place for coaching in athletics.

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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [ericM35-39] [ In reply to ]
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Funny you mention Yeager. I was actually thinking you'd be hard pressed to find a better example of expertise as the result of just doing in any field than him. If ever there was proof to just do more to get better, I'd say CY is it.


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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Jordan, this is true, that's why I mentioned him. However, the thousands of pilots that died in his era would give credence to technique training!

Hst, yes doing is better. Whether on flight sim or real plane.

Eric Reid
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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I'd be really interested in hearing your thoughts (not just a brush-over, but a classic, insightful Rappstar take) on post #264 in this thread.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [The Authority] [ In reply to ]
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The Authority wrote:
PLEASE don't put that Paulo guy in the same sentence as Brett Sutton. It's offensive to Brett!!!

At least Paulo is allowed to coach at sanctioned race sites.

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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Weird that I would ask you this so late, but what information from Sousa are you sharing? Just that one quote about the importance of working on your swimming fitness? Or is there a larger tweet or blog you are referencing? THANKS.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [goodacre] [ In reply to ]
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AFAIK - it's just the tweet.

My added thoughts:
The context *Is* larger, people are looking for shortcuts, and Paulo understands that there are no [legal] shortcuts.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [goodacre] [ In reply to ]
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I think it was just that tweet that launched this thing. For more beyond the tweet, read the blog post by Joel Filliol. Think that Paulo also has an older post on his blog (like a couple years back) on this content. What a thread. How often do Darren Smith and Joel chime in?
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [3carlos] [ In reply to ]
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3carlos wrote:
I think it was just that tweet that launched this thing. For more beyond the tweet, read the blog post by Joel Filliol. Think that Paulo also has an older post on his blog (like a couple years back) on this content. What a thread. How often do Darren Smith and Joel chime in?
They've got better things to do than argue on the internet.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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'chime in' was incorrect phrasing. I should have said 'waste time here.' Is there a thread edit function so one can selectively delete the garbage and keep the quality?
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [MeltingPot] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't see either of those two arguing here but they both shared worthwhile info with the ST community at no charge. This thread caused me to jump all over the search function for anything on here by czone, coachdaz (only 5 posts dammit!), paulo sousa (that's been a long term project), and a few others. Those searches led me to other knowledgeable posters and threads from before my time on ST and it was highly informative. ST is great entertainment, a waste of time, and highly educational. You can split up that pie chart however you see fit.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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for search, Paulo was smartasscoach before paulo
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Kenney] [ In reply to ]
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there is also a third screen name "Paulo" but I believe that has been renamed to .. or ... or something like that.
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [Rappstar] [ In reply to ]
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Rappstar wrote:
You continue to miss the point that perfect practice is virtually impossible without appropriate fitness. Furthermore, perfect practice really isn't necessary to swim a reasonably fast time for 1500m/1900m/3800m in open water. It just isn't.

Snip

And, it's worth pointing out, that just like with swimming, if you log enough miles in the saddle, you'll figure out your bike position. Just like you'll figure out a lot about your swim stroke with enough hard yards in the pool.


I guess the question boils down to...what is a 'reasonably fast 1500/1900/3800 time?

I used to swim with an Australian triathlete who was doing 35k per week (by herself), and couldn't break 25 minutes for 1500 metres. To my thinking, that is slow. To faster swimmers than me, it is terrible. To slower swimmers than 25.00, it could be reasonable.

I had a swim with her, and it was comical. She could go all day, but so inefficient... She then joined up with my swim coach, and swam half that amount of kms, with drills (and most importantly - feedback) incorporated in each session, and the last 400 tt she did before retiring (due to a congenital problem) was 5.16, and her last 1500 was 20.00. By the time she retired, she was state champion, and racing elite at the AUS nationals.

Some people are more naturally talented & have a better natural swim stroke than others.
35kms per week didn't help her get fast. It didn't help her find technique, either.
She was extremely fit whilst going slow, though.
Last edited by: NAB777: Jan 11, 12 15:51
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [gregn] [ In reply to ]
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gregn wrote:
ST is great entertainment, a waste of time, and highly educational. You can split up that pie chart however you see fit.

I've said it before, but the old cliche often applies around here:

"Half my advertising dollars are wasted - the problem is I don't know which half."
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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I can't believe I just finished this entire post!

Then again, in my only IM I swam 2:26 per 100m, which is practically dog paddling.

I'm sure drill practice would help me and more swimming would help but did feel like I picked up some things here.

After my IM, I thought I'd wait until the Achilles healed....Close to 1-1/2 years later, I need to do something so swimming is the plan.

I've signed up at a starting technical masters class and will see how that goes and then simply focus on longer sets with hard efforts and push myself to be better.

Will need to get down to roughly 1 hour to KQ, which is the goal.

Have fun for those who are hammering each other back and forth, but there are definitely many of you helping out total beginners in this post.

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"Chrissie wins because she trains really f'ing hard and races really f'ing hard and was blessed with a huge f'ing motor" Jordan Rapp
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Re: QFT: Paulo Sousa on Swimming [NAB777] [ In reply to ]
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I'll just leave this here:

Matt Dixon (twitter): Two foundational pillars for swimming: 1. Overcoming resistance. 2. Training. (load+execution). 1 Needs education+guidance. 2. Needs effort.



Heath Dotson
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