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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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He averaged 390 watts for last 18 minutes of Strade, in that heat. He could be the next classics monster.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [echappist] [ In reply to ]
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In a moment of oxygen-lacking lucidity it struck me that hunting KOMs is more or less the same as an ITT, which I always approach as me vs. myself. Whatever happens, happens. Or doesn’t. Or something.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
He averaged 390 watts for last 18 minutes of Strade, in that heat. He could be the next classics monster.

His arch-rival MvDP has looked slightly off so far . Cracked at Strade, 13th at Milano-Torino. Of course the 13th could just be the result of the crash that messed up the finish at Torino - I think he might have been held up slightly. But before this week I would have pegged MvDP as the faster finisher of the two. Now I'm not so sure.

But it's great to see the rivalry swing Wout's way. Like any good rivalry, both sides should have periods of dominance.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
He averaged 390 watts for last 18 minutes of Strade, in that heat. He could be the next classics monster.


His arch-rival MvDP has looked slightly off so far . Cracked at Strade, 13th at Milano-Torino. Of course the 13th could just be the result of the crash that messed up the finish at Torino - I think he might have been held up slightly. But before this week I would have pegged MvDP as the faster finisher of the two. Now I'm not so sure.

But it's great to see the rivalry swing Wout's way. Like any good rivalry, both sides should have periods of dominance.

It's been nine years since we had a proper rivalry. Cancellara injured in 2012; Boonen had quite the year. Then the opposite in 2013 and 2014.

The last major showdown, when both were on form, was in 2010, and FC convincingly won that round
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Carl Spackler wrote:
He averaged 390 watts for last 18 minutes of Strade, in that heat. He could be the next classics monster.


His arch-rival MvDP has looked slightly off so far . Cracked at Strade, 13th at Milano-Torino. Of course the 13th could just be the result of the crash that messed up the finish at Torino - I think he might have been held up slightly. But before this week I would have pegged MvDP as the faster finisher of the two. Now I'm not so sure.

But it's great to see the rivalry swing Wout's way. Like any good rivalry, both sides should have periods of dominance.

Not saying the MvdP has looked like his sterling self, but he had at least one puncture that cost him from being on the front group at Strade and worked really hard to chase back. He said the chase sent him in to the red. At Milano-Torino he was driving at the front for his sprinter (which didn't pan out) and the crash may have affected him.

That said, I agree. Wonderful rivalry from two amazing talents and it is great to see the back and forth. It will be a fun weekend!
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [ In reply to ]
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Slo-mo osted without armchair analysis or quarterbacking.

Sorta without comment.

Fuck him. The entire peloton should turn their back on him.

https://www.instagram.com/...?igshid=aqp0aq2473ph
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [RKW] [ In reply to ]
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RKW wrote:
Slo-mo osted without armchair analysis or quarterbacking.


Sorta without comment.

Fuck him. The entire peloton should turn their back on him.

https://www.instagram.com/...?igshid=aqp0aq2473ph


Agree. Being DQ'd the race is not enough. Pulling this shit in an already too dangerous downhill sprint is mental. Jakobsen has massive head trauma, a crushed palate, crushed trachea, and lost a lot of blood. He's being kept in a medically induced coma.

Groenewegen tweeted:

"I hate what happened yesterday. I can't find the words to describe how sorry I am for Fabio and others who have been dropped or hit.


At the moment, the health of Fabio is the most important thing. I think about him constantly."


Taking no responsibility for what happened, as if it was a natural disaster out of his control.

-------------
Ed O'Malley
www.VeloVetta.com
Founder of VeloVetta Cycling Shoes
Instagram • Facebook
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, so far Wout is looking pretty stellar. He gets a nod in having world-class TT but they both have nasty sprints to go against the best.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [RowToTri] [ In reply to ]
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to be honest I do not want to see the pile up... but there is lots of blame to go around on this one, the UCI and the race commissaires have a responsibility to safety and a downhill sprint on stage 1 of a race is plain unsafe.. add to that the high speeds these guys were going small things get amplified, what might have been a small change or bump at the normal sprint speeds get worse.

No question Groenewegen should be sanctioned for unsafe actions, but the UCI and race organization as well should be put in the cross hairs. The other week there was a bollard in the middle of the finishing spring, what commissaire does not see these things, what race organizer does not understand the risk?.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [turdburgler] [ In reply to ]
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MADS gets one, good for him. Classy of CCC to try and give the leader's jersey to DQ.

Porte looked good at Ventoux today too. Hopefully he'll have a little luck to match the fitness this year.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [RKW] [ In reply to ]
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seriously. that is some BS. f that and f that guy.

he knows somebody is coming around him from the right. he veers, elbows, veers, etc. he literally rode him into the barrier.


fwiw, the slo-mo doesn't do justice to the crash. there 5-10 guys who could have been hospitalized.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with McEwan, that the UCI needs to take some responsibility.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [jstonebarger] [ In reply to ]
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I revise my previous statement somewhat since the UCI regulations completely absolve them of any responsibility for course safety, though I have no idea who holds the organizer to account if not the UCI? The specifics of the UCI regs are:
Course and safety
Safety
1.2.060 The organiser must provide an adequate security service and organise efficient cooperation with the police.
(article introduced on 01.01.05)
1.2.061 Without prejudice to the relevant legal and administrative provisions and the general duty of care, the organiser shall ensure that the race course or the competition grounds include no places or situations that could constitute a particular safety risk to anyone (riders, attendants, officials, spectators, etc.).
(text modified on 01.01.05)
1.2.062 Without prejudice to provisions requiring an entirely closed circuit, all traffic shall be stopped on the course as the race passes through.
1.2.063 In no case can the UCI be held responsible for defects in the course or installations of for any accidents that may occur.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [s5100e] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, I don't know how that last rule works. The UCI has the only hammer that really matters to a race organizer. Pulling their race from the calendar if standards are not met.

If the race isn't meeting the rules, someone has to have the hammer ready. I can't figure out who that is other than the UCI.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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In my opinion you guys are coming down way to hard on DG.
Sure what he did was wrong and he should be DQ'd, but on the flip side moves like this are very common is racing, go back and watch the last 20 bunch sprints of the last 5-6 years and you will see plenty of moves like this, some even much worse.
Obviously this one had very bad consequences but the move itself wasn't really anything that crazy.
I'm not saying that I dont feel bad for Jacobson, but to crucify DG for a move that I can almost guarantee you every sprinter has done multiple times in their career (go and watch the sprint that Demare pulled at the tour a couple of years ago) is not the right answer either.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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By no means looking to spare DG of blame.

But, agree the UCI likely has some culpability. After Wout’s injury at TdF, doesn’t that prompt some referendum on reviewing all race barrier set up and safety. Understood the barriers here were a bystander, not the cause. But in any business, once you have a sentinel event, that should trigger committees, reviews and new standards. And the banners that most often come into play at are the run up to the finish.

Maybe they did this. But if this is being openly questioned, then wonder.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trail] [ In reply to ]
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UCI is more like a kid's plastic sand shovel than hammer*. That finish has been a known issue, compounded by Lambrecht's death at last year's race from concrete road furniture. Greonewegen's behavior could have caused that crash in any bunch finish but doesn't change the fact that a downhill sprint is just stupid. The riders complain about poor race safety but nothing ever changes.

*Any question that the UCI is nothing more than ASO's patsy has been answered. They ok a revised calendar that hoses the Giro and clearly favors to the Tour, Vuelta and P-R; come on, you can't put Flanders and Roubaix in November? It's not like the weather's considerably worse.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trener1] [ In reply to ]
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I dunno man. i don't see argy bargy, i barely see an elbow. I don't think it looks like the typical relegation incident.


for me, its knowing that they're doing 60k+, and driving him into the barriers. so much so that they both had to stop pedaling. so much so that they both wiped out. and then wiped out 10 more riders.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trener1] [ In reply to ]
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trener1 wrote:
I'm not saying that I dont feel bad for Jacobson, but to crucify DG for a move that I can almost guarantee you every sprinter has done multiple times in their career (go and watch the sprint that Demare pulled at the tour a couple of years ago) is not the right answer either.

You have a point, but I'd prefer, at some point, to raise the bar and start consistently regulating all that behavior rather than just calling it normal.

Someone in front has to hold their line. I can see some leeway for guys behind. Because you're having to find a lane to get through traffic. But once you're in front and initiated your final push for the line, you made your choice.

But I do agree that starting to enforce consistent behavior doesn't mean you have to destroy Groenewegen's career.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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Man, I'm not sure I agree. It looks like he first veers right to shut the door, then a second time more aggressively moves him towards the barriers as Jakobson pulls even and is sprinting straight without any shoving. Can only take so much from a vid but looks pretty intentional to me (not to nearly kill him but win the race at any cost): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMobj6UZpso He doesn't stop pedaling until after taking Jakobsen out.

Takes big balls to be a sprinter but that finale looks more like a NASCAR wreck than bike race.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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we're on the same page. I was replying to the "every sprinter in every sprint" sentiment. I dont see it that way. I don't see the typical Cav elbow or McEwan headbutt.

I see it as you see it. he rode him over. rode him over some more. and then rode him off.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [dsmallwood] [ In reply to ]
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Totally, that stuff happens in the heat of the moment. Problem is, sometimes it ends up like this. But is it becoming a pattern with this dude? Might be, dunno. And hard to read a guy who comes across like Ivan Drago in spandex.
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [trener1] [ In reply to ]
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The craziest part of the entire Sagan/Cav dust up (not looking to get into it) during that Tour was that Demare was all over the road in that very sprint going from the center to the right then back to the center in part creating the Sagan/Cav bunch up then chopping across Bouhanni's front wheel to win the thing. He was the most dangerous rider in that tour and faced no penalty or relegation.

"It's good enough for who it's for" - Grandpa Wayne
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [flynnzu] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed. He had the benefit of being French
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Re: *Spoilers* 2020 Cycling Restart Thread *Spoilers* [Carl Spackler] [ In reply to ]
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Carl Spackler wrote:
Totally, that stuff happens in the heat of the moment. Problem is, sometimes it ends up like this. But is it becoming a pattern with this dude? Might be, dunno. And hard to read a guy who comes across like Ivan Drago in spandex.

I think that's already taken

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