Kuss reminds me of Tyler Hamilton, sitting up, looking around, wide eyed, glasses off, just like hey man, let's party.
Yes. Very much so.
Quote:
(Forget the other stuff for now.)
This too. Always liked Tyler. Sad story. ________ It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
Made the mistake of watching Phil and bob commenting on the sprint. They completely missed the top 4, instead commenting on how Caleb ewan was moving up and then not moving up. One glance at the last few km and it was clear that the run in is too hard for him. Bennett is the only pure sprinter who can handle that. Phil and bob need a good talking to from their producers.
I know, right? Someone who could beat Boonen in a small group sprint and run Cancellara close in a TT
Damn, that was impressive. Not just the power, but also the positioning. No lead-outs (well, other than riding the coattails of the Sunweb train), but he was in the prime spot. With ~1.5 km to go, he was about 8th position (Bol being 5th position), and managed to get himself onto Bol's wheel with about 800 m to go. In the mean time, two of the riders who had been in front of him (namely Sagan and Bennett) somehow dropped back.
I mean, when your pack positioning is that good, of course you'd throw shades at your skinny climber teammates. Also, again, that efficient sprinting style on show. Much less side-to-side sway of the bike compared to Bol.
S. Bennett had a really good closing kick though, but was badly positioned.
carlosflanders wrote:
Made the mistake of watching Phil and bob commenting on the sprint. They completely missed the top 4, instead commenting on how Caleb ewan was moving up and then not moving up. One glance at the last few km and it was clear that the run in is too hard for him. Bennett is the only pure sprinter who can handle that. Phil and bob need a good talking to from their producers.
Too senile, too complacent, and too lacking in introspection to change. NBC must have offered ASO really good money, so that no one else could be arsed with challenging it (NBC) for the U.S. broadcasting rights. Any one of us in this thread here could probably offer more racing insights than either of those two could (I would defer to Mr. Roll re: actual pro-peloton racing experience).
NBC must have offered ASO really good money, so that no one else could be arsed with challenging it (NBC) for the U.S. broadcasting rights.
The NBC no-ad feed is really good. Simon Gerrans and another dude. Both always on point. Minimal "chateau talk"
I could swear that Eurosport also mentioned that Gerrans was one of its associates on the ground. Gerro double-dipping, so to speak?
That said, I'd much rather have Gerro do what Bradley Wiggins is doing on Eurosport. Wiggins really doesn't offer much and comes across as a tosser and a tosspot. That emo shtick of his really grates. He's really only there b/c of higher name recognition. Just last week, he had that "riders should retire from the race if they can't handle the risk" line. Completely uncalled for, given the condition. Made all the worse, b/c he himself should know better (refer to Brave Brave Sir Wiggo taking on Giro 2013). Complete lack of self-awareness and exemplar of all that is wrong with sport punditry.
Gerro, OTOH, is gotta be one of the wiliest riders out there. The man is basically Exhibit A of how to maximize one's potential (though having a really good kick doesn't hurt). Probably knows all about positioning, reading other riders, how to determine what moves to follow, etc. I'd love to hear him comment. Hell, make it an Aussie double and have McEwen as well; the latter could regale all of us about proper preparation for sprints, etc.
Gerrans stopped winning after the peloton wised up to him. He was poison for any break or chase as you knew that he would do no work and was guaranteed to win the sprint. He should have been world champion but sat in in the chase group and killed it, then he won the sprint for silver easily. If he had manned up and taken a couple of turns he'd have the rainbow stripes on his jersey. Nothing smart about that.
NBC must have offered ASO really good money, so that no one else could be arsed with challenging it (NBC) for the U.S. broadcasting rights.
The NBC no-ad feed is really good. Simon Gerrans and another dude. Both always on point. Minimal "chateau talk"
I could swear that Eurosport also mentioned that Gerrans was one of its associates on the ground. Gerro double-dipping, so to speak?
That said, I'd much rather have Gerro do what Bradley Wiggins is doing on Eurosport. Wiggins really doesn't offer much and comes across as a tosser and a tosspot. That emo shtick of his really grates. He's really only there b/c of higher name recognition. Just last week, he had that "riders should retire from the race if they can't handle the risk" line. Completely uncalled for, given the condition. Made all the worse, b/c he himself should know better (refer to Brave Brave Sir Wiggo taking on Giro 2013). Complete lack of self-awareness and exemplar of all that is wrong with sport punditry.
Gerro, OTOH, is gotta be one of the wiliest riders out there. The man is basically Exhibit A of how to maximize one's potential (though having a really good kick doesn't hurt). Probably knows all about positioning, reading other riders, how to determine what moves to follow, etc. I'd love to hear him comment. Hell, make it an Aussie double and have McEwen as well; the latter could regale all of us about proper preparation for sprints, etc.
I'm sure this isn't popular, but I want a Wiggo / Armstrong / Bruyneel daily podcast.
Gerrans stopped winning after the peloton wised up to him. He was poison for any break or chase as you knew that he would do no work and was guaranteed to win the sprint. He should have been world champion but sat in in the chase group and killed it, then he won the sprint for silver easily. If he had manned up and taken a couple of turns he'd have the rainbow stripes on his jersey. Nothing smart about that.
That really only describes his 2012 MSR win, and whatever you want to say about his MSR win, at least acknowledge that not all his big wins are like that. He didn't win in the fashion you described in 2014 Liege (his team kept it together until the uphill to Ans), and he certainly didn't win in the fashion you described at 2012 GP Quebec (he actually attacked with GvA and worked to ensure they stay away). He was also getting close to 35 at the start of the following season. You are cherry-picking facts to make it suit your narrative.
I really don't get the people who loathe him (okay, I do); he punked Cancellara, and for that, he's to be forever known as a wheelsucker, despite the fact that it was one race. What else is a physiologically inferior rider supposed to do? Admit defeat and don't be opportunistic? Do the "gentlemanly" thing and don't jump into breaks? Or are you just selectively applying your standards? After all, most sprinters don't show their faces until the last 250 meters or so. Where's the "honor" in that? Where's the "honor" in Cancellara forcing the less experienced Vanmarcke into the leading position at 2013 Roubaix; he has won the damn thing twice at that point, after all?
The only reason why I watch road racing is because it's unpredictable, and that part is primarily due to the fact that the strongest doesn't always win. That adds spice to the viewing. Otherwise it'd be just a procession.
Funny how the narrative has flipped 180 in one year. MdVP looks human this year, WvA other-worldly. And WvA looks like a definitively better climber than MdVP. Though hopefully MdVP will whip into shape for some fun one-day racing later in the year (and by later in the year I mean like in a week or two or whatever it is with this crazy compressed schedule).
I'm forever grateful to him for punking cancellara. Made canc a much better rider. He went away and worked on his top end and tactics and won some fantastic finishes because of it.
Nothing smart about throwing away a world championship. Totally on him for killing the chase.
I'm forever grateful to him for punking cancellara. Made canc a much better rider. He went away and worked on his top end and tactics and won some fantastic finishes because of it.
Nothing smart about throwing away a world championship. Totally on him for killing the chase.
You are misremembering the facts. The descent flatted out with about 2 km to go, and Kwiatek had a good 7 seconds there. Belgium was then happy to sit at the front and let Gilbert pull, who did so until there was about 500 m left. Gilbert never closed it though. The same criticism you level at Gerrans could just as well apply to Valverde and Gallopin. Why didn't they take a turn? Why take a turn when another team was so willing? Furthermore, if you burn yourself up in the process of closing the gap but have no sprint left, that's better than the alternative? Maybe in your warped view of "honor" it is, but it isn't for the rider. How many times have you seen similar scenarios play out, where a solo attacker with 8 seconds gap with 2 flat kms left beat a chasing pack, despite not being the strongest? You are letting your loathe of Gerrans color your analysis.
Furthermore, the physics wasn't going to work. Let's say 4 seconds (as oppose to 5 as indicated) with 1 km left. Kwiatek hit 1 km point at 1:51:29 in the video below (when the distance-to-go indicator disappeared); he crossed the line at 1:52:39. He covered 1 km (mostly flat terrain) in 70 seconds (and remember, he sat up for the last 150 meters, which is why the finish was close). At ~250 m to go (which is when the chasers started the sprint), Kwiatek still had a 4 second advtange. Average speed during this distance is 51.4 kph; 4 seconds represents a 57-meter gap. To close this gap (as in, ride 1.057 km in 70 seconds), the chasers had to do 54.4 kph. To do so at comparable CdA would require 17% additional power, over what Kwiatek was doing. Where is that 17% power going to come from? Gap to that small break Kwiatek infiltrated was ~7 seconds the whole way. When Kwiatek attacked, front of peloton was about 5 seconds behind. At the top of the hill, the gap was actually 9 seconds. The peloton couldn't even maintain the gap up the section when everyone is doing Vo2max power (which was the best opportunity for closing the gap); now they can somehow magically conjure it up after they've already shown they are unable? Gerrans + Gilbert couldn't have caught Kwiatek that day, and had the caught him, Gerrans would have lost out at a shot on the podium.
Furthermore,
Still didn't answer the question, what is a physiologically weaker rider to do, when up against stronger opposition.
If the answer isn't "gracefully capitulate", then I'd really want to know what other option is there
And you didn't acknowledge how Cancellara punked Vanmarcke. Why didn't he do the honorable thing and continued to lead through the velodrome? The next year, during the final run in at RvV, Cancellara again punked Vanmarcke, this time by forcing Vanmarcke to close down an attack, despite being in front of Vanmarcke and having the wherewithal to do so himself.
It's all in the game, as they say. The pros know it (and I'm sure Vanmarcke regret getting punked, not once, but twice). The only people salty about it are fans of certain riders.
Also, I don't see many "token" turns here, do you?
Wow! I appreciate your passion and the effort you've put into the reply. I can't reply without writing an essay and distracting from the thread.
One small thing, I don't think it's right to use "honor" in quotes - appears to imply that I used this word in my other comments. I didn't use it or imply it.
I'd proffer that Wout is a better bike racer than MvdP--at least right now. There's no questioning MvdP's motor and bike handling skills. But Wout is showing he has both of those too. PLUS he showed tactical noir by choosing to follow Alaphilippe as opposed to waiting for sprint (could have likely won that way too). Today he showed race craft with positioning like a seasoned sprinter. Then there are his comments yesterday we laughed at, but they demonstrated his race awareness and willingness to do the hard work for team when duty called. I mean, that's a whole other level of bike racing.
I'd proffer that Wout is a better bike racer than MvdP--at least right now. There's no questioning MvdP's motor and bike handling skills. But Wout is showing he has both of those too. PLUS he showed tactical noir by choosing to follow Alaphilippe as opposed to win sprint (could have likely won that way too). Today he showed he's race craft with positioning like a seasoned sprinter. Then there are his comments yesterday we laughed at, but they demonstrated his race awareness and willingness to do the hard work for team when duty called. I mean, that's a whole other level of bike racing.
His teammate, Menner Groenewegen, cold stand to learn a few lessons from Van Aert. Come to think of it, if I were Groenewegen, I'd begin to see myself as surplus to requirement. Groenewegen is good as a flat track bully, but for anything else, it's hard to bet against WvA. I'm sure Israel Start-up Nation wouldn't mind paying for his services.
If Lombarida ever gets back to a slightly less ridiculous course (as in, no Muro di Sormano), I'd fancy his chances of winning it
carlosflanders wrote:
Wow! I appreciate your passion and the effort you've put into the reply. I can't reply without writing an essay and distracting from the thread. One small thing, I don't think it's right to use "honor" in quotes - appears to imply that I used this word in my other comments. I didn't use it or imply it.
Duly noted on the point re: usage of the word honor, and acknowledged that you didn't use the word. My usage of quotation was more for the general concept of honor in racing.
Seems like you are somewhat local. When this damn pandemic is over, I'll buy you a drink (or two) after one of the local TTs (I'm in the People's Republic of Madison and had planned on traveling to ITTs up to 2.5 hours away), and we can debate about Gerro.
Anyone else who is local (Madison/ Milwaukee/ Chicago) is invited as well.
No worries. Hate it when a post-two beers type discussion gives the appearance of turning too serious.
I learned my racing knowledge mainly in the Midwest but I live in Denver now. Took me ages to get upgraded because every race I did seemed to be won by a Polish guy who sat in and sprinted at the end. You'd google their name and often found out that they had raced the Tour of Poland 20 years previously and had several national podiums.