Suddenly the article this morning about him looking to leave politics and join Newsmax makes sense.

I guess he's tight with Katie Hill. (She says Gaetz was one of those who really supported her when she got outed.) I wonder what Young Matt wants out of that relationship...

Anyway, it's kind of frightening to think that these allegations likely won't have any meaningful long term effect on his electability. His voters will just chalk it up to the commie/socialist Deep State even though the investigation appears to have been commenced under Barr. It's even more frightening to think that a move to Newsmax might even be more beneficial to his aspirations to higher office than working his way up the political ladder. I mean, if he's on Newsmax then he'll be on every idiot's idiot box every night, shoveling his bullsh*t right down their willing throats, and that's a pretty good strategy for getting your brand out there prior to national elections.

---

War is god

The must be the pedophile sex trafficking ring we’ve been hearing so much about.

Anyone surprised?

---

Suffer Well.

yea, me --- i thought he was into young dudes not women.

Same. I thought for certain the story was going to be about him and a guy.

---

Suffer Well.

But he always seemed like such a nice, quiet, respectful young man.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Dude looks like a sleezy frat boy that hits on everyone's girlfriend when their back is turned.

And, of course, Qanon-types, the self-professed guardians of children against child sex trafficking by politicians will collectively yawn when presented with real evidence of a real politician (allegedly) committing actual sex crimes.

Edit: Oh, Thom beat me to it.

Well he appears to have lost the support of at least one white supremacist.

Here is the interview.

This is from an interview, with Tucker Carlson I believe.

"It is a horrible allegation and it is a lie," Gaetz said. "The New York Times is running a story that I have traveled with a 17-year-old woman and that is verifiably false. People can look at my travel records and see that that is not the case."

If you read between the lines, it seems odd that he would call a 17 year old girl a "woman". Do 38 year old guys call a 17 year old a girl, or a woman?

Does he believe that "trafficking" and "traveling with" is the same thing?

Also is this going to be a repeat of the whole Hasterts thing?

That doesn't seem that odd to me.

Banging a 17 year old when you're in your mid thirties on the other hand....someone should drug test him, he has that frat boy coke head look

No, it isn't odd. It is fucking creepy.

He dances, bobs, weaves, dodges, and shimmies his way through that interview so much he convinced me he 100% did it.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

There is an effort to get the hashtag #PizzaGaetz trending on Twitter.

What a time to be alive.

I didn't watch the interview. Calling a 17 year old a woman or man isn't that odd to me. They're on the cusp of adulthood. It also wouldn't be odd to me to call an 18 year old a girl or a boy.

Remember when Gaetz was the only one to vote NO on the federal anti-sex trafficking law?

Edit: Gaetz claims he’s being extorted, which is kind of an admission.

Also, a 17 year old girl is really not a woman. A 17 year old is likely a junior or senior in high school, living at home. An older man doesn’t have a “sexual relationship” with a 17 year old— it’s actually rape.

It might be easy or comfortable for some people to blur these distinctions, but the law is the law and it matters to women. A guy’s opinion that these details are not worthy of accuracy is pretty revealing about the guy, more than anything else. That attitude doesn’t reflect the law or a person who cares about the well being of 17 year olds.

Also, maybe Gaetz is bisexual. How old is Nestor? Do we need to send family services to do a check?

Oh my!

Not that there wasn't a bunch of signs he was a perv

There is nothing normal about the phrase "seventeen year old woman."

"Young lady," sure. Maybe "young woman." But not in the context of discussing inappropriate conduct with a minor. It's just...off.

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

Not disagreeing. Excluding the context in this case it wouldn't make me pause though.

It is not like there wasn't signs he was a creep

U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz accused of creating sex game with 'points' for sleeping with staff


https://www.orlandoweekly.com/Blogs/archives/2020/01/15/us-rep-matt-gaetz-accused-of-creating-sex-game-with-points-for-sleeping-with-staff

I just watched the interview with Tucker Carlson. Very strange. If he is telling the truth he has nothing to worry about. He says the doj and fbi have all the evidence of what was going on. If that’s the case, it doesn’t make sense they are investigating him unless the fbi and doj are conspiring against him.

I have to give Carlson a little credit here for not being a complete piece of shit and actually pressing him on the facts.

Andy Borowitz - Matt Gaetz unlikely to be victim of extortion since nothing could make people think less of him.

One story I read mentioned he had been thinking of running for the Senate in Alabama. Guessing he was hoping Roy Moore had already made molesting underage kids a non-career ending topic.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

This is from his interview with Axios-
Asked what the charges could relate to, Gaetz said: "I have definitely, in my single days, provided for women I've dated. You know, I've paid for flights, for hotel rooms. I’ve been, you know, generous as a partner. I think someone is trying to make that look criminal when it is not."

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

He says it started this month with an extortion text.

Pants on fire ... DOJ says it started when Trump was still in power.

---

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

I knew a girl who turned 18 her junior year at Michigan. Of course as a minor, he did live at home as a freshman and sophomore.
A couple guys I knew in high school went away to college at 17, but they turned 18 the first month of freshman year.

Neither here nor there though.

Imagine saying what Gaetz said in that interview and being able to say it with a straight face and not have the interviewer tell you that you’re full of shit.

Clearly the doj doesn’t care about if he’s paying for things for a girlfriend. But if he was fucking a 17 year old and flying her around the country with him that’s another thing.

What seems critical to me is (assuming there is a 17 year old involved) did he know, was she misrepresenting herself as older, etc.

I know a person who in high school had a fake ID and was going out to bars and hooking up with much older guys. It hardly seems reasonable for a man to be charged with rape for hooking up with girl in such a situation.

Yeah not exactly a stellar defense.

Initially I agree but if he made a comment, "the woman I was with" and then you found out the girl was 17, that would not only sound odd, that would be an odd way to make the statement. I've never heard anyone, until now, refer to a 17 year old as a woman. A young woman, yes, a woman, nope.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Every law enforcement agency in the US would disagree with you. Lack of knowledge of her age is not something that would matter to them charging and finding you guilty.

That just seems crazy.

How could a person know? Their ID even says they are 21+.

I would think it matter for findings of guilt at least, which is done by courts (including juries) not law enforcement agencies.

When asked if he there was a 17 year old he also said, "The woman does not exist."

Which is odd because in the next breath he talks about how "they" are trying to make buying stuff for your girlfriend criminal. Which is it? Did you buy stuff for your girlfriend or does she not exist (maybe he had a girlfriend that goes to a different school)? Did you date someone who was really young but 18+? Did you date someone who you thought was 18 but possibly wasn't?

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

When I was younger, 21 living in Florida, me and my buddy were at a picnic and there were a couple of girls flirting with us. We asked my friends SIL what their names were and if she knew anything about them. She told us their names and said, "oh, the one on the left is 14 and the one on the right is 15." They looked a lot older than 14 & 15. We left the picnic.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

He's using that word deliberately as part of a misinformation campaign. Don't refer to her as a girl, or young woman, instead she's a "woman". It attempts to somewhat normalize the relationship, and his followers will buy it.

And no, a 17 year old is never referred to as a "woman" or "man" unless you are trying to indicate that they are an adult. (the only exception that I can think of is sometimes, heat sheets at swim meets will list age groups as "women" and "men", regardless of age, but that might just be a software thing and is specific to the context of a swim meet.)

---

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

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My daughter is 15. Sometimes, she goes to the college gym with me where I work out. I don't think she looks any younger than what I presume are the mostly 18-22 year old girls working out there. She's been mistaken for a college age girl more than once, and it's not like she even has a particularly womanly figure.

The law simply doesn't care. If "I thought she was 18" was a valid defense then age of consent laws could hardly ever be prosecuted. If they are under 18 you are guilty, and I'm not sure how many juries will really be all that sympathetic to someone in their mid to late 30's making that claim. 21 or 22 years old, maybe. 38? Please.

ETA - it is entirely possible that he has been set up and none of this is true at all. In which case he needs to shut up, stop giving interviews, hire someone who is good with damage control, and fire the guy who went on Tucker Carlson last night because that guy sucks at this.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yeah I get that. My comments prior were specific to someone under 18 hooking up with someone older who they met in a bar, and even having an ID that shows they are 21+.

I find it hard to believe that any jury in those circumstances would convict someone of statutory rape. I know I wouldn't. There's the law and then there's justice.

I'm trying to remember who it was, and it seems like it was a MLB player but not sure ( I found the story and it looks like it was Felipe Vasquez ). He, hooked up with a 13 year old and used the "I thought she was 16" defense. Oof.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yeah that would be hard one to pull off.

I know we have some lawyers around here. If a person is duped into breaking the law would that really be prosecuted let alone get a conviction?

This is the correct answer. He’s going trying to frame it as some “Biden DOJ smear campaign by the deep state going after men in heterosexual relationships”.

And the MAGA sheeple will buy it up saying “she was a woman , knew what she was doing” or similar.

Ignorance is rarely a good defense...

There's a difference between ignorance and being duped.

Someone who hooks up with someone they connect with in a bar is working under the reasonable assumption they are 21 in order to be in the bar, especially if they are ordering drinks.

I still call that ignorance. Everyone knows of people that get into the bars on fake ID’s. So, you know there are ladies in the bar that are not 21. If you are in your 30’s and take a girl home from the bar assuming she is 21, you are an idiot not to 100% verify she is of age.

You mean by checking her ID?

And why would it matter if the person is in their 30's? If it turns out she's under 18, wouldn't any person over 21 be just as guilty of statutory rape?

It is possible that Gaetz did something wrong AND was extorted. Both are totally possible.

For sure it's not mutually exclusive I'm betting he's not being truthful about the details.

---

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

As I pointed out earlier, Dennis Hastert both raped minors and was extorted.

It's much more common to refer to a 25 year old as a "kid" than it is to refer to a 17 year old as a woman.

Hell, in my college XC days, my dad kept referring to the "girls' team" or the "boys' team."

Either way, this could have never happened and I still would have thought that Gaetz is a scumbag.

---

-----------------------------Baron Von Speedypants
-----------------------------RunTraining articles here:
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What's that German word, translating to "Face in need of a Fist"? I always think of Gaetz as the illustration like his mug was invented just to accompany that term.

It just Gaetz worse for the GOP every day...

(OK, I stole that off twitter)

Another gem I'm stealing from twitter:

"Biden has a minor Major problem, while Gaetz has a major minor problem."

Priceless!

backpfeifengesicht battle of the titans.

Who wins?

As for the conviction: you can only introduce evidence in your defense that is relevant to your case. Someone under the age of 18 is legally incapable of consenting to sex. Hence, your (mistaken) state of mind does not give you a defense of consent.

I can see a judge considering such evidence when it comes to sentencing. And, I can see a jury looking at the victim and crediting the defendant with a defense that she looks 18+. But, technically speaking, it’s not a defense to guilt, as far as I know.

ETA: some states’s laws are different. But, FL is like what I described above. Statutory rape in FL is strict liability and ignorance of the victim’s age appears to not be a defense.

Maybe he shares a few lines with Don Jr. when he is in town?



How much coke did Don Jr. snort?

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Trieatalot

It's a C minus world.

There was a local case somewhat recently (not mine) where the judge granted a sentencing departure motion because he determined that the underage girls involved were the aggressors in that they were actively soliciting the 67 year old defendant.

Ignorance of the law is one thing. What Thisisit is describing is something else entirely.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

The classic case in the field (involving a 76 year old in FL) is Lason v. State, 12 So.2d 305 (1943). Its language is incredibly weird and harsh.

Wow, that is damn good, it's almost a palindrome !

---

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--

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Can’t decide - just need to punch them both.

We all lose.

I'm not suggesting "she looks 18" is the defense, I'm suggesting "she was in a place and engaging in behavior that only 21+ year olds can legally engage in" is the defense.

I suppose we could even take it further. What if she showed the other person proof that she was 21+ with her ID?

You know what, go ahead and just believe you can simply assume that a female drinking an alcoholic beverage in a public establishment is more than enough for you to know she is 21. Try that with the judge too when it turns out she was 17. Report back with your results.

He is describing ignorance that sex with a minor is a statutory offense and consent of the minor or other factors really do not come into play for a defense. So, ignorant of the law...

Come on man, you know what he is saying and why he's saying it. There has to be some responsibility on the part of the minor at this point. A person can't read someone's mind and know their age. He's not saying it's right, he's not saying anything about Gaetz one way or the other, he's making a point that there should be some responsibility if a person has done all of their due diligence.

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Ignorance of the law usually means you're unaware of what the law is (i.e. in this case, that it's illegal to have sex with someone under 18), not that you're mistaken about some facts related to breaking the law.

Why in the world would I do that?

We're just having a discussion, there's no need to get in a huff.

There really isn't. Have sex with someone who is a minor, get charged, go to jail. All of the burden is on the adult. Hazards of chasing after people on the cusp of adulthood.

Some states have distinctions based on how much older someone is. So if you are less than 5 years older for instance it is a lower offense than if you are Matt Gaetz's age. Of course the vast majority of cases are never prosecuted because the underage person actually wanted it to happen and no one knows or doesn't care. It is when you piss off the parents, or in this case the FBI when they are investigating one of your close allies, that you get sent to the pokey.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I suspect the pun wasn't intended but I laughed

You know what they say, "Buyer Beware."

---

_____
TEAM HD
Each day is what you make of it so make it the best day possible.

Of course it was intended.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I guess it just screws with my sense of justice. You want to go after people who are knowingly doing something wrong or else you're really not protecting society. Going after someone who is duped into a crime they had no idea they were committing makes zero sense to me.

So claims are he travelled with her (assume airplane) and paid her way. To get on an airplane requires birthdate in your ticket request. Assume under 18 she didn't have her own credit card. Guilty as charged, he knew her age.

I'm with you. If he is flying some girl around, putting her up in hotels, etc., there is likely ZERO chance that he didn't know she was seventeen. He, and his dick, just didn't care. He's an arrogant, entitled, awful human being and it might catch up with him.

I know what you’re saying and, as a technical matter, it does not make that evidence admissible at the guilt phase. Her age was what it was. The defendant’s reasons don’t matter at the guilt phase. I was merely pointing out that there are other ways in which the full story might still play a role: in the prosecutor’s discretionary decision whether to bring a case, at the sentencing phase, and perhaps even in the jury wrongly crediting the defendant with a defense. I agree with you that one could imagine a situation where this would all seem rather harsh. And, the prosecutor and the judge have ways to take that into account. But, technically, it is not admissible at the guilt phase, based on my quick reading of FL law.

Do you know if your BAC is .07 or .08? Sometimes it is on you to know even if knowing isn't very easy.

I get where you are coming from, but the whole goal of the law is to protect young people, even if it is against themselves, and the responsibility lies on the adult, even if they are as dumb as Matt Gaetz.

Oh, and statutory rape laws are different from the federal sex trafficking law we are talking about. A majority of states have an age of consent for sex under 18. I think the sex trafficking law is about transporting people under 18 for the purposes of having sex with them, which is what the ally of Gaetz, Joel Greenburg, was being investigated for.

Summary of statutory rape laws - https://www.cga.ct.gov/.../rpt/2003-r-0376.htm

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

I guess that's how we get to the statutory rape cases that make the news from time to time because they rile people's sense of justice. At least in some states they've added that age discrepancy bit so you don't get some 18 year old kid convicted of raping his 17 year old partner.

I do have two fists.

---

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Funny how that one never ended up in the Qanon folks' playbook... Well... even if they missed it, surely they've grabbed on to it and run wild by now, right?... Or maybe, this echoing and conspicuous silence could ALMOST lead you to believe that it was all just a bunch of politically motivated hacks regurgitating these sloppy lies because they knew that the dumbest people in the world would happily latch onto anything that could be used to demonize their political opponents... Of course, that would make everyone "we-should-be-looking-into"ing those lies monstrous humans or absolute dupes... Definitely not the sort of people who should be major influences in a quasi-legitimate political party... So we MUST be missing something here...

I'm really, really hoping that our collective societal memory doesn't allow anyone to pretend all the things that were said and done by people between 2015-2021 were excusable, or things that shouldn't permanently and irreparably harm people credibility.

They were simply together to discus Russian adoptions

---

Remember - It's important to be comfortable in your own skin... because it turns out society frowns on wearing other people's

Just to be clear, nothing I've said refers to Gaetz. I'm not defending that guy, or actually anyone :)

I guess I just don't see how you're protecting young people by prosecuting someone who wasn't interested in having sex with a minor and was in essence tricked into doing so? I would assume the normal route for the guy going after minors isn't to hook up with them in bars.

This is somewhat similar to mike Vick. He got in real trouble for transporting dogs across state lines to fight. The federal laws would not have applied. (I think the state laws for felonies at the time were that the dogs had to die. Whereas the federal crime was just transporting the dogs to commit a crime).

Someone REEEEEAAAALLLLYYYY needs to go through this guy's Twitter with a bucket and a mop to scrub it clean.



ETA the link, because the recent replies are pretty good - https://twitter.com/...s/897946853437833217

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

He's not describing ignorance of the statute. He's talking about being lied to about the facts such that you don't think you're committing a crime.

I think we all get that if you just didn't know sex with a minor was against the law, that's no defense.

I think we all get that if you thought the minor was able to consent, that's no defense.

Thisisit is talking about a situation in which the defendant reasonably thought he was having sex with an adult, because he was lied to by the minor.

That's not ignorance of the law.

---

Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Lied to about the facts? Really?

How many people do you know that used fake ID’s?

I amend my statement. Straight up ignorance. That is all. Not just of the law, just straight up ignorant.

Part of the case against his buddy was making fake IDs and stealing out of state IDs that were to be shredded.

---

___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

This situation happened to one of my roommates in college. This was in the late 80s so the laws now could be way different than they were then. We were at a music club which was 18+ to get in. Everyone was carded and it was the local PD working the door. One of my roommates picked up a girl and ended up taking her home and having sex. Turns out she was 15. This girl was at the club with 1 of her friends. They both had fake IDs. Turns out they were legit IDs, but belonged to their older sisters. They even had their sisters' school IDs (from the same college as us). They knew the campus, knew professors names, and a bunch of other details to make their fake IDs believable. They looked and acted like they were college students.

This girl's father somehow figured found out what had happened and went to the police. Local PD arrested my roommate and processed him through to arraignment. Ultimately they chose not to prosecute. They repeatedly reminded him that they could have if they chose to, but due to the circumstances they thought it was just as likely he would be acquitted by a jury.

Let’s be clear, Matt Gaetz is a POS. Nothing reported on him would really surprise me. Curious to see what the facts end up really showing in the end. It is a bit of extra humor if they were making fake id’s for the underage ladies they were romancing though. Next level ignorance right there...

My hunch is that they found communication where Gaetz was "ordering" ID for the underage victim.

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___________________________________________
http://en.wikipedia.org/...eoesophageal_fistula
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cerebral_palsy
2020 National Masters Champion - M40-44 - 400m IM
Canadian Record Holder 35-39M & 40-44M - 200 m Butterfly (LCM)

Twitter never disappoints! The best:

When they arrest you, do you think your entire head will fit inside the mugshot? Or do they have to put the camera in panoramic mode?


I'm still surprised that it was an under aged female and not an under aged male.

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clm
Nashville, TN
https://twitter.com/ironclm | http://ironclm.typepad.com

I wonder if his sex trafficker buddy flipped on him.

I’ll swap stories with you. There was a 47 year old high school teacher who ended up having a “sexual relationship” (emotionally manipulating & raping) a 14 year old female student who came from a tough home life. The case was prosecuted as statutory rape. The teacher was found guilty, but at sentencing Billings, Montana Judge Baugh ordered a 30 day sentence because the girl “appeared older” than she was. Not long after that, the girl committed suicide. Judge Baugh was censured and retired in shame.

For many crimes, there is the actus reas and mens rea elements that must be proven for conviction. Actus reas is conduct which is a constituent element of a crime. Mens rea is the intention or knowledge element of a crime.

Strict liability crimes don’t have a mens rea element. These crimes don't require any intent or knowledge on the part of the offender. Statutory rape is a strict liability crime.

And this is why they repeatedly told him they could prosecute if they were so inclined. This was a bit over 30 years ago. I suspect if this happened today this would have gone much differently for him.

Anyone wonder if his motives in supporting Trump was because he was hoping for a pardon? They seem to have a lot in common, so maybe he just saw Trump as a father figure. LOL

So I think the story is as follows

Gaetz paid underage hookers for an orgy

Pictures were taken

In exchange for a pardon (what about the state crime?) Gaetz pays 25MM

The 25MM is used to fund a mission (or payoff) to rescue Robert Levinson who was/is being held in Iran

This deal was being brokered by a former DoJ employee

This makes my head hurt and if true would make a great movie.

He's still going to jail for banging underage prostitutes

Tonight, Joel Greenberg - former Republican elected official and Matt Gaetz's child-sex-trafficking wingman - was arrested yet again and hit with yet another superseding indictment with an additional 21 charges.

https://www.orlandosentinel.com/...eydlhaiie-story.html

It always shocks me when public servants boldly commit so many visible crimes expecting to get away with them

Now I'm curious if this "friend" is actually the person behind the extortion plot (assuming that plot actually exists).

It had to be someone who knew about the investigation - and who would know more than the guy who was already indicted? And much easier to extort someone if you already have the receipts in your pocket.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

You are shocked? Do you live in the US of A?

They are counting on not being touched, due to their money, their status, or popularity.

And their boldness stems from the fact that they got away with crimes before.
.

You are shocked? Do you live in the US of A?

They are counting on not being touched, due to their money, their status, or popularity.

And their boldness stems from the fact that they got away with crimes before.
.[/quote]


I assume you don’t think this behaviour is only in the US of A, right?

I think it’s far worse in a lot of countries because they can get away with things far easier with their cultures of corruption. The U.S is nowhere remotely close to the most corrupt nations and this kind of thing goes on all the time.

I don't think anyone is arguing about the nature of the current laws, we're discussing if they are just or not.

Why would the solution for a bad judge (your example) be to convict people of crimes they were in essence tricked into committing (the couple of situations we're discussing)?

I'm guessing that Matt will not be making any more visits to Cheyenne Wy. to rile up the base against Liz. You think Liz is crazy enough to head down to the panhandle of Fla. to roust up a primary challenge to Gaetz? Nope, she aint dope. The boy can self destruct without help.

Even in the U.S. it's probably only in recent decades where this sort of behavior would have been exposed.

Does anyone know anyone who has been shaken down by the cops in the US?

There seemed to be lots of stories form fellow travelers when we in South America. I seem to recall we had to pay the border crossing official to get from Ecuador into Columbia. That was after he made us wait for some time while he got his shoes shined. It actually seemed like it could have been out of a movie stereotyping the corrupt third world official.

Not personally, but in my city there was recently a cop charged and sentenced for extorting women for sex. E.g. pulling them over for a traffic violation, and then bringing up alternative ways of getting out of a ticket.

Must have been one hell of a fine.

That happened in our town too, only it was hookers he'd busted but agreed to let go if they gave him a freebie.

This gets more interesting: https://news.yahoo.com/...howed-224832602.html

So there was a PIZZA GAETZ after all.

I think this little news "development" makes Gaetz the most most highly qualified candidate for VP if dumbf*ck Drumpf runs in 2024 ...

---

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What effing moron would vote for that ticket?

My guess?

About 70 million americans ....

---

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I turned 18 during winter break of my freshman year. Was definitely among the youngest in my year.

Anyway, I've no idea what Gaetz did or didn't do. It's not like I liked him before all this. Yet smehow, he seems to have been the one person Sacha Baron Cohen couldn't fool (it's at the 8 minute mark): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QkXeMoBPSDk

Hahaha. This was my reaction last night.

You know what, I always figured he would go in a scandal. These guys always do. And they are always the dudes with the loudest mouths. We’ve got some local officials here facing the same deal.

I’m convinced trump made people comfortable enough to act like the shit lords they really are not fearing consequence. The reckoning seems to be coming. Gaetz may go to prison, Hawley and Cruz’s stock is way down. Trump is like a boogie man whose real power isn’t really known, but he will be facing criminal and civil actions the rest of his life. Oh and all these assholes who stormed the capital I’m sure got a rude awakening their hero isn’t coming to save them.

Receipts of payments made through CashApp and Apple Pay have been found. This guy is beyond smoked.

---

_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

One reason this interest me is because some of you may remember I was active in Florida politics.

He has recently become somewhat of a hero even among libertarians for his hands off approach to thing. But his libertarian streak, I never liked hi. I met him when he was moving up the Florida poltical scene. Dude was the normal empty suit pol when I met him at a hobknob, but he had a reputation as a drunk frat boy. You could tell the only reason he was where he was because of his dad This is all that coming to life. A party loving rich boy in over his head, but basically circumstances made his bullshit acceptable or even desirable. But he got ate up in his own persona and now will pay a price.

Wait, it just got even better, or worse...

Reporting now that Greenberg and Gaetz are on video going in to the Seminole County tax collector's office after hours and riffling through a pile of surrendered ID cards.



https://www.orlandosentinel.com/politics/os-ne-joel-greenberg-matt-gaetz-closed-office-weekend-20210402-y5xcsaecibaa3eysrljvwjp3cm-story.html

Quote:

"Joel Greenberg and U.S. Rep. Matt Gaetz on at least one occasion several years ago were recorded together entering the Seminole County Tax Collector’s Office when it was closed on a weekend night, according to a person familiar with office operations who saw the videotape.

The person said the footage showed Greenberg and Gaetz walking into the Tax Collector’s Lake Mary office on Primera Drive. Greenberg was seen going through baskets where driver’s licenses, turned in by residents for disposal, were stored and later went into a back room, the person said."

He is about to go through some things.

Based on the articles I read this morning and rumors in the party. There are more shoes going to drop. They didn’t say what. But NOBODY is coming to his defense. Between targeting people like Cheney, and what I suspect events that are more common knowledge among his colleagues are coming. His only defenders are Jordan and Greene. What a choice. Jordan has been accused of some shit with minors when he was a wrestling coach and Greene? Well, nuff said!

Hard to vote for folks in prison. But Repubs not too bright since they drank the kool aid.

He keeps good company.

Hey now. There is a picture of me floating around in a hotel room party thrown by shirtless Roger Stone wearing an eye patch.

I think there is a special place in hell for people like Roger.

Can they all use the same group shot for their prison ID's?

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Well Jim Jordan is focused on the important scandal.

Stone would convert any bro brags at that table to political leverage later on. Wonder if he's involved in the middle east hostage deal.

In addition to his two (relatively prominent within the party) defenders... I don't think anyone in the party has condemned it yet either?

Good points. I wouldn't put anything past Stone. Birds of a feather...

Fox News hasn't mentioned Gaetz since Wednesday morning, but they are focused on the real scandal here:

From the twitterverse

Luke Ball, the communications director for Rep. Matt Gaetz, has resigned, according to a person familiar. Ball quit out of principle, according to the person.

Why is he being cancelled!?!?!?

With it coming out how public he was about being an asshole, it is incredibly telling that he was elevated by the gop. (Not too different from menedez being chair in the senate).

I actually feel bad for people like that, even if they are working for the Gaetz's of the world.I went to law school with the intent of working in politics, this kind of job. After getting involved in a couple elections while I was still in school I decided that was a bad idea. I always said that I didn't want my career to come crashing down because the guy I was working for got caught fucking the neighbor's cat.This might be even worse than that.

Gaetz is definitely a deserving douchebag and you can say the people working for him should have known. But this kind of stupid stuff doesn't always happen to the people you think it will. And now everyone has this as their last job on their resume.

---

I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

Yeah, but... At some point, it almost always seems to be the case that the type of people who end up working for these guys end up being the types of guys who'd work for people like that. It felt like we spent the first 3 years of the last presidency handing out "let's-wait-and-see" passes... but then, EASILY 80% of the time... The enablers ended up being exactly who they seemed like they'd have to be.

One of my best friends worked for Enron. She knew nothing of the shenanigans, but lost her job when it all blew up. In the end, she did ok. But, it sure isn’t the highlight of her resume.

My take on reading the articles, is that he was a well know douchebag and that most of this is not that shocking to insiders. Would think that most senior aides would have some knowledge that he's a shady character. if the CNN story is accurate about showing pics of naked women then would think he showed to aides as well. you go to work for something like that then it should be an albatross around their necks.

This is patently false. They're mercenaries. I know a ton of people who do this and they're not all ideologues (they're all Democrats though). Broad strokes they agree but it's a job and that's all it is. Sure they want their boss to win and/ or set them up for a promotion by moving to another Pol but at then end of the day it's all about the power, prominence and cheddar.

Well you're a judgemental [redacted]

so enabling a douchebag is a legitimate way to get ahead? How about if your name is Hillary?

It's a job. I know people who worked close enough to Hillary they could get her on the phone right now. I'd drink beer with them any day of the week. It's a job there's no need to demonize them. Gaetz is going to the pokey and they're soon out of a job.

Meh, you make it sound like very few people have any agency over ethics. That's sort of an apologist take. Maybe for lower level staff. But I don't buy it for people who could, for example, get Gaetz on the phone, and he'd pick up. Those are his peers. Or Hillary's peers.

Evil exists when good people do nothing, or however that saying goes.

Maybe not demonize, but if I was a subsequent employer I'd sure ask a lot of questions.

It’s a job, but there are lots of jobs in politics. You don’t have to choose to work for a womanizing douchebag who’s more interested in the camera than in his duties as a Congressman. Plenty of other people found other Congressmen or politicians to work for.

Like it or not, people judge you by who you choose to associate with and who you choose to work for, especially when the job you take is all about increasing the influence of that person.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

that's fair

if I get down off my high horse long enough, and had a kid who was a policy wonk, a job -- any job -- would be a foot in the door.

BUT if the job was with a bottom feeder I'd advise to grind it out elsewhere until a better opportunity comes along. The cynicism you develop working for people like that seems like it would be corrosive in the long run.

Its kind of the nature of the job. If you want to move up and get more important positions you need to move through the power structure. You don't really have the luxury of holding out for the lone saint among politicians.

Just like if you want to work in campaign politics. If I love Bernie with all my heart but he doesn't come calling I'm going to go with Klobuchar if she offers a job.

They frequently stay on one side of the aisle or the other but not always.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.

If they knew and/or facilitated him banging underage hookers light'em up but if they didn't no need for extraneous collateral damage

Like Clinton Trump Kennedy Johnson FDR Jefferson ?

Sure.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

“These guys wanted 100% every time. In fact, I don’t think that would satisfy them, because they didn’t really want legislative victories. They wanted wedge issues and conspiracies and crusades. A lot of them wanted to blow up Washington. That’s why they thought they were elected.”

Former GOP House Speaker Boehner.

Boehner is talking about people like Gaetz and Jim Jordan and Donald Trump. It’s an honest but sad indictment of that wing of the GOP and any staffers working for someone like that is well aware of who they’re working for. Maybe not child sex trafficking, but major POS.

Today on Fox News website:

Front Page: Number of articles about Hunter Biden and Cuomo: 4
Number of articles about Matt Gaetz: 0

Politics Page: Number of articles about Hunter Biden and/or Cuomo: 5
Number of articles about Matt Gaetz: 0

Fox has given up even any appearance of being 'fair and balanced'.

I saw that article and something that came to mind was that over the years people kept on saying “this is what led to trump.”

But from Boehner it seems like what led to trump was high level gop members driving wedge issues.

“One of the saddest lessons of history is this: If we’ve been bamboozled long enough, we tend to reject any evidence of the bamboozle. We’re no longer interested in finding out the truth. The bamboozle has captured us. It’s simply too painful to acknowledge, even to ourselves, that we’ve been taken. Once you give a charlatan power over you, you almost never get it back.”

― Carl Sagan, The Demon-Haunted World

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The devil made me do it the first time, second time I done it on my own - W

It was all started by one man: Newt Gingrich.

What he said

Agreed.

That is pretty much my experience — as a career DC lawyer. Most people can’t be too picky if they want to succeed in that world. I know a solid person who spent many years working for a horror of a Congressman. That does not mean he agreed with the Congressman. There are limits, however, and Gaetz was a known clown even before the latest revelations.

What I observe is that people go into such a field thinking that they will be more righteous in their choices but, when the reality sinks in, they wind up picking career advancement over principle more than they’d originally expected.

Eyeroll emoji

travelmama wrote:

Receipts of payments made through CashApp and Apple Pay have been found. This guy is beyond smoked.

What was it that he said right after the story broke? "I have a suspicion that someone is trying to recategorize my generosity to ex-girlfriends as something more untoward."?


"Generosity to ex-girlfriends." Right, Matt. Right...

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War is god

I mean... I understand what you're saying, but if you're the sort of person who's going to (knowingly) work to grow the influence of someone who's morally abhorrent, or work to advance policy that creates structures that are morally abhorrent, it's reasonable to think that you're going to be treated like you're morally abhorrent, because you've done a lot of harm to people. Maybe you can get a job carrying water at a right-wing think tank or something... but your judgement is so demonstrably flawed that it would be irresponsible to give you meaningful decisions to make that effect anyone else.

Ignoring abstractions and digging directly into the concretions: You have a guy who enabled and encouraged another prominent right-wing failson who (off the top of my head) stormed impeachment proceedings, trivialized behavior around Corona virus, unapologetically drove drunk, and now (if the allegations are true) was flashing nudes around of his underaged conquests and created dehumanizing games related to their exploitation... Where (specifically) do you want that guy working within YOUR organization? For that matter, where's a place that you can put him at your organization that wouldn't be an obvious demonstration of your irresponsibility?

There should be consequences for these enablers.

I agree in this case. Like I said, Gaetz was a known clown and working for him crosses a line for me. But, I am not a Republican. Would a basic Trump-endorsing Congressperson think this guy is too scummy to hire? If the answer is yes, it’s probably because of political appearances — they don’t want any association with Gaetz — and not because they think someone who would work for Gaetz is just inherently flawed. Just a guess.

"Gaetz's arrest is said to be imminent after the alleged victim, who has not been named, testified before a Florida grand jury this week saying she had sex with the conservative Republican before she turned 18, http://DailyMail.com has learned. "


https://twitter.com/.../1378079240906760195

Maybe we head to Berlin and walk Cuomo and Gaetz across the Glienicker Bridge as a straight swap?

So when does this pedophile get arrested and perp walked?

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Suffer Well.

Seems like he’s enough of a creepy douchebag without accusing him of something like that.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

Yeah, it's important not to dilute that term, so when we use it on guys like this, it has a specific meaning.

I read that earlier. Completely sickening and I'm sure there are a lot of concerned parents at his school.

The scary thing is that there must actually be means for people like him to find victims.

And people wonder why I support the death penalty.

This fuxkstick deserves it too

https://wgntv.com/...insurance-money/amp/

Not a fan of Kennedy vs. Louisiana then?

To quote Will Muny, killer of women and children, “deserves got nothing to do with it.”

I agree. I think if you made good faith efforts to find out how old some one is and a reasonable person would presume the person looks the part that should be taken into account. Lets say you ask for ID and you get given a fake one giving the age of say 19?

But 38 and 17? That doesn't fly. There are of course easy ways of avoiding all such situations.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

Such a weiner.

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They constantly try to escape from the darkness outside and within
Dreaming of systems so perfect that no one will need to be good T.S. Eliot

I know right? Imagine if Q was right about everything, but missed one crucial detail, the pedophile cult is composed of Republicans and not Democrats.

No

The Republican stance that "life begins at conception" is starting to make more sense. This seems like it could be a legal defense for having sex with a 17 year old, because in God's eyes she's effectively 18.

Also Snoop in The Wire.

I feel like this is similar to hunter Biden.

What if the crucial detail was it wasn’t hunters laptop but instead Matt gaetz phone.

apparently Gaetz met these women on a "sugar baby" website

https://www.insider.com/what-to-know-sugar-baby-website-matt-gaetz-allegedly-used-2021-4



and his drug of choice is Ecstasy

https://www.rollingstone.com/...vestigation-1150373/

Maybe you’re right. The real “crazy” started in about 2010-2011, according to Boehner:

https://www.politico.com/...emoir-excerpt-478506

between alleged Sugar Babies and Joel Greenberg girls and his long suffering fiancé, Gaetz is spread thin. It's a wonder he has time to legislate at all.

“And now they had a new head lunatic leading the way, who wasn’t even a House member. There is nothing more dangerous than a reckless asshole who thinks he is smarter than everyone else. Ladies and gentlemen, meet Senator Ted Cruz. He enlisted the crazy caucus of the GOP in what was a truly dumbass idea. Not that anybody asked me.”

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Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One

That is one of many refreshingly candid tidbits out of Boehner in the piece. The hatred of Barak Obama tie is there too. I don't know if it is an over simplistic view, but the tie of the Fox guest rolls of pols to instant fame, credibility, voice and outsized influence to these tea partyers at the expense of the more moderate Tuesday group caucus helped build Crazytown. So now it is Jim Jordan's freedom caucus and still Fox.

One day they are going to realize this is what has cost them the most. Despite some stalwarts attributing it to socialist Californians invading the far reaches of Republican strongholds, it’s actually those of us who have historically not voted along party lines who no longer recognize the various levels of GOP governance and can’t, in good faith, cast a vote in their direction. I concede others may see the same thing happening on the Democratic side and to a certain extent, I would agree.

I'm not too swayed by Boehner's attempt to rewrite history and his place in it. He can try to score points by calling other Republicans "crazy" and "lunatics" and pointing to the 2010 election cycle as the beginning of the end for common-sense conservatism, but I seem to remember him giving a floor speech in opposition to the ACA, and talk of death panels and killing grandma, all that helped usher in that wave of Republicans.

Here's the real Boehner:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gFC3kVZTCk

awkward

Matt Gaetz is headlining a conservative womens' event at a Trump golf club this Friday.

it's been revealed he sought and was denied a blanket pardon from the former President

will he take questions from the audience . . .

https://www.businessinsider.com/...2021-4?r=US&IR=T

I guess the good news here is that he's precisely who he always seemed to be... Some Republican supporters like performative antics because they make people who are reasonable and responsible uncomfortable... They thinks it's provocative or interesting in some way?... There are definitely moments when I have a tough time distinguishing them from people who—at their core—are actual deplorable pieces of shit. At this point, it seems like Gaetz was being genuine the whole time...

The audience is there to gawk at the "hunk" of a "conservative." And are all WAY too old for him. But he will take their money with a smile.

i'm trying to imagine perving on matt, and can't get past his face

https://www.theonion.com/...sbxfeTJZNBS3e0Fg2HPc

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Word is that Gaetz's homeboy Joel Greenberg has flipped...

https://www.politico.com/...l-prosecutors-480289

Greenberg's lawyer was just answering questions outside the courthouse. He said “I am sure Matt Gaetz is not feeling very comfortable today.”

I love it!

since the Feds know he will be there, it'll be a good place to arrest him

Feds are looking into a trip he took to the Bahamas - (he lives in a beach town in Florida - why go to the Bahamas?)

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/matt-gaetz-bahamas-trip-federal-probe-sex-trafficking/

I don't. Now he's got a tip-off about what investigators are likely to know, which allows him to respond accordingly. If he was unsure, he might continue to lie to investigators in ways that can be used against him. (assuming he's lying/has lied)

I don't understand why so many people just can't STFU.

Still waiting to see this shit bag perp walked.

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Suffer Well.

Also, that article makes it appear that Greenberg won’t be pleading guilty to child sex trafficking. So, there could be a weird courtroom dynamic where Gaetz is being charged with a crime for which Greenberg (who seems criminally more culpable) didn’t plead guilty.

This story is good and a great precursor to the Ghislaine Maxwell trial.

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_____________________________________
DISH is how we do it.

$900 went from Gaetz to Greenberg, the next day 3 girls received a total of 900--- What a coincidence!

https://www.thedailybeast.com/gaetz-paid-accused-sex-trafficker-who-then-venmod-teen

Is it a crime to pay for someone's school?

If it is, the entire exotic dancer industry is in real trouble.

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Slowguy

(insert pithy phrase here...)

But what about unity?!? You lefties disgust me.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Conservative women. Likely all Trump nutters. This is fake news. A witch hunt.

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How does Danny Hart sit down with balls that big?

Gaetz releases statements from unnamed women in his office.

. https://www.yahoo.com/...eless-182138607.html

The letter continued: “In our office and under Congressman Gaetz’s leadership, women are not only respected, but have been encouraged time and time again to grow, achieve more, and ultimately, know our value.”

Did their value increase if they agreed to have sex with him? And according to his name, they had a higher point value if they were married - is that what they were talking about?

He's just a generous guy. You guys are all bitching about how expensive private high school is.

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I'm beginning to think that we are much more fucked than I thought.